tahir91 VS Moore Games

[tahir91]

I haven't pitched a bitch yet so I won't mention the casino name but I will give the story in brief.

During September 2012 I won around 9000 EUR. The casino decided to pay 1000 each month . It was very hard to get even that and required over 40 emails in order to be paid 5000 until they stopped paying ,on January 2013 last payment arrived.

During March I submit a complaint at one place but they never answer and they get Blacklisted.

At the end of March I contacted another portal but then came the big surprise answer from the firm - YOU PLAYED THE MONEY AND GAMBLE IT ALL AWAY ALL OF THE FUNDS WERE LOST BY PLAYER - this is what they answered while I didn't touch any game.

7 months I have been waiting to be paid, 7 months that I never play but just in process of being paid. I have a screenshot of the transaction history that show that each month (except of the first month that I did play and brought the balance up a bit) the balance decrease by 1000 means I never played, I just cashed out.

I didn't play the 4000, the casino simply stole the money.

As far as I could understand the casino sent log files of the games I played but I never got it from the mediator I hope I can get it but from his attitude I don't think he will send it to me.

Any idea what should I do ? they can fake the log files,I am afraid the software provider will not help me. What is they give a casino employee to gamble the money away ? who will check for IPs, who will do it ?

 

[dionysus]

Well, one, it's possible the log files are lost, corrupted or one of you isn't telling the truth

Why do you not want to name the casino? Is it rogue, accredited, a secret?

 

[tahir91]

I could see here that if you discuss a casino, and then pitch a bitch you may not get help because you already bad mouth the casino.

The mediator says he got the logfiles and while the casino ignores me at all the mediator refuses to send me the logfiles.

All I have is a screenshot of the transaction history which I can get even now as the account is open, showing there was no attempt to reverse a pending cashout while they do approve in an email sent on January that I do have a pending cashout.

And what can also be seen from the screenshot is that except of the first month which I played at the casino the rest of the months I didnt play and always 1000 went down from balance.

The casino provided fake logfiles to the mediactor and the mediactor consider me as a lier, I never lied to anybody, I never played and it is just a trick this casino decided to try and so far with great success stealing the funds in balance.

The casino is not rogues here as far as I know but have a bad reputation in the industry (some past slow payments non payments issues)

 

[dionysus]

I could see here that if you discuss a casino, and then pitch a bitch you may not get help because you already bad mouth the casino.

The mediator says he got the logfiles and while the casino ignores me at all the mediator refuses to send me the logfiles.

All I have is a screenshot of the transaction history which I can get even now as the account is open, showing there was no attempt to reverse a pending cashout while they do approve in an email sent on January that I do have a pending cashout.

And what can also be seen from the screenshot is that except of the first month which I played at the casino the rest of the months I didnt play and always 1000 went down from balance.

The casino provided fake logfiles to the mediactor and the mediactor consider me as a lier, why I never lied to anybody, I never played and it is just a trick this casino decided to do.

The casino is not rogues here as far as I know but have a bad reputation in the industry (some past slow payments non payments issues)

Once a PAB is filed, you're to stop posting about it, there's nothing wrong with talking about it or naming it at this stage. Discussing the details of the case at this point could help others help you. No one said you had to bad mouth them; just explain the details as you know them.

 

[tahir91]

mmm... I think the rules in the website says first you have to pitch a bitch and using the forum before that may hurt the chance to get help, if one of the mediators here says it won't hurt the future pitch a bitch, I can reveal the casino name, but why is the casino name so important ? It is one of the Microgaming White Label Casino if I am not wrong.

I tried to search online and I couldn't find even one case like what happened to me. Casino says you played the money during the process of complaint and the player says no I didn't, not even one case I could find.

For anybody who got some small common sense even from the short announcement by the casino you can see how full of bullshit they are, this came from the mediator involved look at the answer, the account was verified twice already long time ago, it is 7 onths after I won the money not 7 days

"I do now have an explanation from XXXXXXX regarding the delayed payments – which was due to the necessity of requiring additional identification for security reasons. They inform me that you met said requirements and are now free to withdraw, however they’ve also indicated that due to further play you no longer have funds to withdraw – is that accurate?"

 

[dionysus]

mmm... I think the rules in the website says first you have to pitch a bitch and using the forum before that may hurt the chance to get help, if one of the mediators here says it won't hurt the future pitch a bitch, I can reveal the casino name, but why is the casino name so important ? It is one of the Microgaming White Label Casino if I am not wrong.

I tried to search online and I couldn't find even one case like what happened to me. Casino says you played the money during the process of complaint and the player says no I didn't, not even one case I could find.

Well, if you feel that mentioning the casino hurts your chances why bring it up at all and start a thread? File your PAB
However, if you're posting for help and advice, then people pretty much need to know who/what you're talking about to help. If there's a rep, pm them first. If there's no rep, then I assume you're looking for help here. It can't be because you're warning players, because there's noone youve mentioned to warn players OF.

Why is it necessary to name it? Well, players here have been around the block. They might have had similar experiences. They might tell you you're S.O.L. They might be able to help.
If you're not willing to discuss the casino, the thread really, is rather pointless. I'ts like saying, 'don't eat here, the food's bad'...'where?'..'er, I don't want to say, but don't go there'

 

[tahir91]

It is Mooregames.com now I am going to submit a pitch a bitch so I guess I can't discuss it further

 

[tahir91]

Before I submit the pitch a bitch there is something I need people here to help.

I don't know whether it is possible to reverse cashed out funds in Mooregames, people here please help me is that possible at that place. I never reverse any of the cashout I made so I don't know and of course I am not going to deposit more at this place but from people knowledge here, is it possible to reverse a cashout by player at this place and how long is it possible ?

The reason I am asking is because if it is not possible to reverse a withdrawal by the player or if it is possible only for few days then I have a 100% proof they are lying.

There was a pending cashout of 1000 that was not paid, I sent an email asking about this cashout and they replied on February 21 2013
Feb 21

to me
Hi Txxx,

We confirm your withdrawal request and we will soon approve it.

Please be patient until all standard procedures are followed!

Regards,
Cxxxx

And today they sent this Email:

Dear Txxxx,

Please be advised that your e-mail is considered offending and unjust!

Our manager reviewed your case and the final decision is that we are unable to refund the balance you lost in Casino, meaning 4,004 Euro. The case is simple: after you won over 9,000 Euros in our Casino, a total amount of 5,000 Euros has been withdrawn by you and the rest played and unfortunately lost.
For help regarding gaming addiction, please refer to our Responsible Gaming page.

Also note that no further correspondence will be taken into consideration.

Kind Regards,
Exxxxx


If it is not possible to reverse the funds, then it won't be possible for me to lose the 4004 as they claim but only 3004 left in account.

In the screenshot I have of the transaction history it can be seen that no reversal of funds was ever made back to balance and what you can also see is that the balance goes down by 1000 each months mean I never play I just in process of cashing out

Again I need people help here, is it possible to reverse a withdrawal in mooregames and for how long ?

 

[vinylweatherman]

The software is Tain, not Microgaming. The confusion is because Tain is a platform, rather than a casino software, and can have games from many suppliers, including Microgaming.

This is important when we are talking about the faking of logs. Unlike a Microgaming casino, where such fakery is not considered possible, this is a platform licensed in Curacao, where many rogue operators operate from. A rogue operator might try such trickery, but if they get caught, they will end up in the pit here.

Their story is more believable as many players have played back funds due to excessive delays in getting paid, and often regret it afterwards. A few then try to pressure the casino into refunding these losses.

What is needed is evidence that shows the casino's side of the story to be false.

In my experience, ALL casinos have a mechanism that allows players to reverse funds, and are more than willing to do so as it means more potential profit for them.

If a warning is needed, it is because they took so long to pay what is a relatively small amount, and given that they WERE paying, and made it to $5000, they were clearly satisfied about the credibility of the player.

If games were played by someone other than the customer, it would be because the account was hacked. The LEAST likely explanation is that the casino did it.

In order to get to the bottom of this, a PAB would be necessary.

Hacking accounts is not as rare as some believe, and has happened to some respected forum members. Kasino King had his Moneybookers wallet hacked and drained of cash, and it took a year for him to get redress. Hacking the average casino account is easier.

This could be down to malware on the PC, and this should be checked out IMMEDIATELY in case the hacker is after more than just losing $4000 from one casino account.

It doesn't help that the casino and mediator is being unhelpful, even obstructive, in getting to the bottom of what happened where the customer is sure they didn't access their account and play off the balance. It can make it look like they are hiding records that would prove this was a hack, even though these records could also strengthen their case that the play took place from the player's computer and internet connection.

 

[Sovietsky]

I made a quick search at google.

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[Nifty29]

A PAB, rather than baseless conjecture, is the best way forward here.

 

[maxd]

FTR, PAB received and in progress.

Given the nature of this dispute I've changed the thread title.

 

[maphesto]

Mooregames.com are a strange, strange gambling company. They are using some kind of swedish "celebrities" to make commercials on special events. Those celebrities are for example Puma Swede (a hard core porn star ), Amina Axelsson (nude model and porn...)

From mooregames.com:



The text is in swedish, I couldn't find it in English, but the main thing is that the woman on the picture is saying: Deposit 500 SEK and you will get access to exclusive pictures on me on my website.



Sorry for the derail, just had to share. If this is misplaced a mod can move it to a new thread called "mooregames strange bonus".

 

[ThePOGG]

It doesn't help that the casino and mediator is being unhelpful, even obstructive, in getting to the bottom of what happened where the customer is sure they didn't access their account and play off the balance. It can make it look like they are hiding records that would prove this was a hack, even though these records could also strengthen their case that the play took place from the player's computer and internet connection.

To be clear and open - I'm the other mediator that tahir91 approached. I don't want to get into specifics as I don't want to - unlikely as it is - influence any part of the PAB proceedings and conclusions. However, I am going to state openly that tahir91 is right, I won't give him the log details or information off of them.

During the mediation process, part of my discussion with Moore Games was agreeing not to disclose or publish the evidence they provided. It's not what I'd ideally prefer, but if that's what I have to agree to to get the casino at the table and providing their side of the story, I'll take it. Mediation does mean being fair to both sides though, so if I've agreed not to disclose said details, I won't disclose them. Full stop. Just like when a player submits evidence that is of a sensitive nature, I won't disclose details of that to the casino regardless of whether I feel they're likely to have them or not already.

To give tahir91 what he's asked for - the log files themselves or information off of them - would be unethical and in breach of my word. It would undermine my credibility and give any casino I approach in the future ample reason not to engage with me.

I appreciate why you may feel that's "unhelpful" or "obstructive" VWM, but in the current market that's the way things have to be to protect both sides and have the greatest chance of actually doing some good.

ThePOGG

 

[Jasminebed]

Shouldn't the casino have provided the customer with log details?

I respect POGG's not passing it on to the player as per his agreement with the casino, and since Moore games provided them to him, I trust they will cooperate with CM as well.

 

[LaHutti]

Regardless of what happened...since we don't know if the player actually did lose, providing the play logs and a transcript of all transactions in his account, since he made his deposit, to the player, should be the least the casino should do.

Of course, if they're able to provide these logs to a mediator, whether it's Bryan or someone else, they should most definitely provide them to the player asap, and should have done so as the first thing.

Sometimes the actions of online casinos really baffle ones mind. If they have undeniable proof, that that's what happened, provide the evidence to the player and finish the case. As long as the player claims, that he has no clue what's going on, and keep trying to get help from various mediators, the case is not closed imo. On the other hand, if they DON'T have this proof, they need to pay up.

 

[maxd]

… I trust they will cooperate with CM as well.

So far I have no complaints, they've been responsive and given me what I've asked for.

 

[Przecinek]

Moore games is officially down as far as I can tell.

Tried sending them email and got this response : "A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its recipients. This is a permanent error."

Outdated URL (timeout) - Curacao license comes up as "INVALID".

and last but not least, if you select sports on their website it will give you 404 error.

Edit: This can be some kind of temporary problem with the server, but by the looks of it, seems like something more serious.

 

[ThePOGG]

Shouldn't the casino have provided the customer with log details?

Personally, I'd agree with that sentiment to an extent, but it's not my place to hand out that information and that's where I feel tahir91 feels I've let them down.

Many casinos are wary about passing back end information on to anyone for fear of helping fraudulent players figure out how they are being detected and devising ways round security measures. I suspect it also has to do with giving their competition insight into how their systems operate. I remain to be convinced of how realistic these threats really are, but it doesn't change the fact that if I've given my word I'll hold to it.

 

[PaaskeDenmark]

Mooregames.com are a strange, strange gambling company. They are using some kind of swedish "celebrities" to make commercials on special events. Those celebrities are for example Puma Swede (a hard core porn star ), Amina Axelsson (nude model and porn...)

From mooregames.com:

View attachment 39613

The text is in swedish, I couldn't find it in English, but the main thing is that the woman on the picture is saying: Deposit 500 SEK and you will get access to exclusive pictures on me on my website.



Sorry for the derail, just had to share. If this is misplaced a mod can move it to a new thread called "mooregames strange bonus".

What if I sign up as affiliate for them. Maybe I can have her pictures if I earn them 500 SEK :xxx