Baptism by Fire - failed Sunset Slots

[dunover]

Guys

This is a very sensitive area and I would like to discuss this with Bryan before responding. The identity and location of owners of privately owned casinos and affiliate sites are not generally topics of public discussion.

I will respond as soon as we have discussed this.

Thanks

Well decent jurisdictions will have the name of the casino and the business address involved on their licences. You may not feel it's for public discussion, well if you are private company maybe not - BUT it does suggest caginess and that leads to questions such as "are there any names that have had previous involvement with rogue/non-paying sites, or businesses/casinos that have folded with players amongst the creditors??".

You are cautious regarding what information you are prepared to disclose - just hope the public aren't as cautious when it comes to depositing at your site(s).....

 

[Blathaon]

There was a sunsetslots thread back in June, and there were explanation problems then too.

page 12 and 13 in the thread, where i and some others asked some questions.
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/49612/

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/49612/

i will just quote some of the more important parts.

Hi Guys

Firstly , let me apologise for not responding sooner.

Let me try to address these issues one by one...

Hi Labeled , trying us out does not necessarily mean playing with your own money. If the previous poster got a CD in the mail then they can play with the free money that is on offer on that CD. I am not sure how the CC issue factors here given that you would have to do that at any other casino unless youre using a wallet. In fact, I am happy to offer you and the other poster some free money if you let me know your details should you choose to try us out BEFORE writing us off

@The Viking : thanks for signing up. I need to look into your account to see why you were not eligible for bonuses. There is a central database that operators subscribe to and if you were listed on that Db by another rival casino for whatever reason, the system automatically flags you. I am sorry that your first experience with us was a bit of a bummer but I would like the opportunity to try and remedy that if possible?

Your welcome email is sent out automatically and would implore you to check your junk/spam folder for it. Mailing is a challenge and we are always trying to stay ahead of the game to prevent our operational mails being junked. Sometimes, it just happens. I will confirm that it was sent off if you could provide me with your username.

@Sovietsky : thanks for replying. "the spirit of the bonus" - this is the first time that I have heard of it put this way!! I think that you will find that most - if not all casinos have a clause somewhere that speaks to this issue. At the end of the day, bonuses are not mandatory and are there to give players extended game time and in some cases to try out the games at zero risk.

@ Blathaon,: hi, I have addressed this in great detail in the past but possibly not on CM, so let me state emphatically that we are NOT a white-label. My partner and I have put a lot of time, money and effort in trying to build a credible, reliable and entertaining casino using what we believe is really good software. We manage our own acquisition, conversion,retention,Call centers, VIP management and processing between 3 locations. In the few cases where it makes sense because of their reach and /or location we do use Rival to facilitate some processes as any operator/software vendor relationship works.

Some of the mods and old timers here know me and some of my team and know that we are trying to build a sustainable long term business.

I am not sure where you saw the "öwned by silverstone" bit but would love it if you could point me there so that I can have it edited as it is not true.

Guys, please feel free to ask or address anything further with me - Like i said before, we welcome constructive criticism and any opportunity to make your experience as an affiliate or as a player better.

First, sending cd offers through physical mail is bad practice, at least i think so. It makes you seem desperate and unprofessional.

the "owned by silverstone" part was not listed at your website.
So when i did some Google searches, sunset slots came up as being a part of silverstone overseas, so i apologize if this is not correct.
Just google "sunset slots silverstone" and you will see this appearing all over the net.

you say you are licensed in Curacao, but the license logo at your page is not clickable. so i could not verify if this is correct, You should update these links, none of the Logos at the bottom of your site is clickable.

This last message is from june 28th.

It is a very simple question, how can i know that you have a valid license when you do not link to your license?.

No need to read any deeper into it than that.

Cool Blathaon, thanks for pointing that out... we will get it sorted pronto!!

I see that the logos at the bottom of their site is still just images and no links, no reference or link to a license number either. So i don't know what they define as pronto. but it's been over four months.

I contacted Curaçao eGaming through their website on July 7, asking them if they could verify if this casino had a valid license.
I never heard back.

I guess everything could be fine, but i personally would not play there.

 

[bonustreak]

Hi there all I just wanted to toss in my thoughts... I can understand a casino not wanting to give out the info of ownership if they are accepting US players..

Maybe that is the case here not sure but just wanted to toss in my thoughts on that. I also agree the bonus structure needs a bit of tweaking I am sure that can be resolved.

 

[aceking123]

too many alarm bells ringing here ,but as its a BOF , give the guys a chance to sort out a few of the things that have been fired at them ) tropica have some rules on there higher bonus about what you can withdraw on them , but for the 100% matches these in genral do not have any limits so be looking to forward to this been removed .

 

[randomiam]

ill give them a go

well they get one shot to wow me ill let you know how i go

 

[Googobucs]

Now that Rival is accepting US, I think you will see more of them attempting BOF.
Question about BOF: Do they agree to PAB during the process? I know most Rivals are listed as no-can-do. I like Rival and would be willing to at least give these guys a look if I know that PAB is there to back me up during the BOF.
thanks


I had a hard time with copy/paste so I had to use snipping tool. This is stuck in the middle of the password section but if it pertains to passwords only should perhaps be re-phrased.

 

[Casinomeister]

It's BBF not BOF - we don't baptize fire, it baptizes you.

The casino is privately owned, much like many of the smaller operations which are listed here. Many do not disclose their ownership details in pubic mainly to protect their employees and business property from visitations by disgruntled players. Some of you may be privy to a number of chat transcripts and emails that have been posted here that are filled with violent, offensive, and threatening language. You wouldn't want those persons to show up at your work place, or to find out where your kids live. This is why many smaller casino operations are reluctant to list this information. I'm sure most of you can understand why this is sensitive.

I've had a good business relationship with one of the co-operators for the past 10+ years, and I've known him to be very ethical towards players - he's been instrumental in dealing with some very serious player issues. All turned out good.

SunsetSlots is not a white label, they have their own in-house support 24/7, and are licensed in Curacao.

 

[bigjohn]

It's BBF not BOF - we don't baptize fire, it baptizes you.

The casino is privately owned, much like many of the smaller operations which are listed here. Many do not disclose their ownership details in pubic mainly to protect their employees and business property from visitations by disgruntled players. Some of you may be privy to a number of chat transcripts and emails that have been posted here that are filled with violent, offensive, and threatening language. You wouldn't want those persons to show up at your work place, or to find out where your kids live. This is why many smaller casino operations are reluctant to list this information. I'm sure most of you can understand why this is sensitive.

I've had a good business relationship with one of the co-operators for the past 10+ years, and I've known him to be very ethical towards players - he's been instrumental in dealing with some very serious player issues. All turned out good.

SunsetSlots is not a white label, they have their own in-house support 24/7, and are licensed in Curacao.

If the ownership status is good enough for you it is probably good enough for the vast majority of CM members. However...

It does not provide any other avenues for players who may seek redress if at some future time Sunset decides to no longer honor it's commitment to you and your members here.

There also seems to be a problem with the connection to Curacao, FWIW. If the license is not listed by casino name but by owner name that effectively shuts off another avenue.

While I have no problem with your personal thumbs up it seems to be against the part of the CM mission statement regarding openness.

 

[Sunset Slots]

Now that Rival is accepting US, I think you will see more of them attempting BOF.
Question about BOF: Do they agree to PAB during the process? I know most Rivals are listed as no-can-do. I like Rival and would be willing to at least give these guys a look if I know that PAB is there to back me up during the BOF.
thanks
View attachment 43243

I had a hard time with copy/paste so I had to use snipping tool. This is stuck in the middle of the password section but if it pertains to passwords only should perhaps be re-phrased.

Thanks for your Post Googobucs - not sure what you are referring to - perhaps let me know which part doesn't make sense to you and I will look into changing it.

Best,
Pieter

 

[nepatsfan01]

I'm just going to throw my 2 cents in.... I played them months ago and was able to reach my requirements and request a decent withdrawal. It took me 6 or 7 WEEKS to get a payout all the while getting the total runaround. I'm gathering that this may have changed since CM is willing to possibly give them accreditation but in my opinion, I wouldn't play here. There were still several people at the time that never got paid...again, this may have changed or it may be because they were new at the time but still.

Just sharing my experience.

 

[SunSet Slot Ops]

Hi

Thanks for your input... I will be the first to admit that we had teething issues when we launched. These are/were well documented and is what we try our damndest to avoid ever happening again.

With respect to the issue you raise, are you referring to the cashout that you requested in April 2012? According to our notes, that took 3 weeks (22 days) to action after some back and forth with the banks. If so, I hope that your subsequent engagements with us have been more efficient?

SS Ops

I'm just going to throw my 2 cents in.... I played them months ago and was able to reach my requirements and request a decent withdrawal. It took me 6 or 7 WEEKS to get a payout all the while getting the total runaround. I'm gathering that this may have changed since CM is willing to possibly give them accreditation but in my opinion, I wouldn't play here. There were still several people at the time that never got paid...again, this may have changed or it may be because they were new at the time but still.

Just sharing my experience.

 

[Googobucs]

Thanks for your Post Googobucs - not sure what you are referring to - perhaps let me know which part doesn't make sense to you and I will look into changing it.

Best,
Pieter

It is understood that having a third party involved in a players on line casino account is a violation of this agreement. This statement is redundant. You have already stated that sharing of account numbers and passwords is prohibited.
By specifically stating involving third partys, it give me the impression that if I PAB or file a complaint with a licensing body that I have broken this term and am SOL.
thanks

 

[SunSet Slot Ops]

Hi, this term is not put in there for that purpose as I am sure you understand. This would be the "edge case". One would think that if you have gotten to the point of P'ing A B or reporting us to regulatory bodies that the dung has hit the propeller and it doesn't really matter whether you have an account with us or not! (I am kidding of course!!)

The purpose of that clause is to prevent you sharing details, and then disclaiming actions that may take place on your account as a result of the actions of a person/s with whom you shared the info.

If you have a suggestion for how we can address your concerns with this term (that is present in almost every casino's T&Cs) then i am all ears.

Thanks for your input... it's greatly appreciated..

It is understood that having a third party involved in a players on line casino account is a violation of this agreement. This statement is redundant. You have already stated that sharing of account numbers and passwords is prohibited.
By specifically stating involving third partys, it give me the impression that if I PAB or file a complaint with a licensing body that I have broken this term and am SOL.
thanks

 

[Googobucs]

Hi, this term is not put in there for that purpose as I am sure you understand. This would be the "edge case". One would think that if you have gotten to the point of P'ing A B or reporting us to regulatory bodies that the dung has hit the propeller and it doesn't really matter whether you have an account with us or not! (I am kidding of course!!)

The purpose of that clause is to prevent you sharing details, and then disclaiming actions that may take place on your account as a result of the actions of a person/s with whom you shared the info.

If you have a suggestion for how we can address your concerns with this term (that is present in almost every casino's T&Cs) then i am all ears.

Thanks for your input... it's greatly appreciated..

My eyes are set to look at things with a high degree of discretion after being burned in the past. Perhaps I'm over reading into this. I constantly see a common theme here of experienced members saying "Didn't you read the T & C ? it's posted right there". I've spent so much time reading through the T & C at sites I play at that I probably have earned a bachelors degree in T & C.
I re-read this about 20 times and I think perhaps I made more of it than is necessary.
thanks

 

[ChillBill]

I agree it's important to know where Sunset Slots is licensed and regulated, including questions pertaining to its capacity to meet operational obligations to players and any other issues involving players trust. Though, I don't understand the persistent push to know who owns it. I don't see anyone asking who are the owners of other casinos here at CM for example.

Apart from 32Red who is a public traded company, as far as I'm aware, the majority of online casinos are privately owned companies etc. etc. For argument sake, I can't recall any other MGS operation apart from 32Red freely posting their management hierarchy or photos on their website. I also don't know too many, if any, who use their full names either, except for 32Red. Who I'll say again is a Plc (public limited company).

Members play at casinos where they have no idea who really owns them. Therefore I don't get the push by some members on Sunset Slot's case to reveal owner details. For me as a player, as long as the games are not gaffed, I'm treated fairly and receive my winnings pronto, Noddy and Big Ears could own the casino, I don't care. My only concerns relate to my player experience at a casino.

We all get mailers from casinos for promotions and such.

I've received mailer from accredited casinos signed out with an obvious alias. Am I going to kick up a stink over that? No. Why? I realise given the industry, the owners, reps and what not probably want to keep their private lives secure. IMHO it's not to keep "secrets" but to protect their private lives. And personally I don't blame them for doing so.

 

[bigjohn]

I agree it's important to know where Sunset Slots is licensed and regulated, including questions pertaining to its capacity to meet operational obligations to players and any other issues involving players trust. Though, I don't understand the persistent push to know who owns it. I don't see anyone asking who are the owners of other casinos here at CM for example.

Apart from 32Red who is a public traded company, as far as I'm aware, the majority of online casinos are privately owned companies etc. etc. For argument sake, I can't recall any other MGS operation apart from 32Red freely posting their management hierarchy or photos on their website. I also don't know too many, if any, who use their full names either, except for 32Red. Who I'll say again is a Plc (public limited company).

Members play at casinos where they have no idea who really owns them. Therefore I don't get the push by some members on Sunset Slot's case to reveal owner details. For me as a player, as long as the games are not gaffed, I'm treated fairly and receive my winnings pronto, Noddy and Big Ears could own the casino, I don't care. My only concerns relate to my player experience at a casino.

We all get mailers from casinos for promotions and such.

I've received mailer from accredited casinos signed out with an obvious alias. Am I going to kick up a stink over that? No. Why? I realise given the industry, the owners, reps and what not probably want to keep their private lives secure. IMHO it's not to keep "secrets" but to protect their private lives. And personally I don't blame them for doing so.

You must have never looked at the accredited list. Every casino on there states who (not the persons name) owns it.

 

[ChillBill]

You must have never looked at the accredited list. Every casino on there states who (not the persons name) owns it.

It's a company entity mate. The casino industry is synonymous with using multiple companies, shelf companies and trust accounts to hide the true ownership details. So in affect all you have on the accreditation list are entity names. So what? Best of luck finding the true owners!

Added info - that's why companies exsist, they allow corporations to distance the owners from the business(s) unlike a sole trader, who can't hide their identity.

 

[bigjohn]

It's a company entity mate. The casino industry is synonymous with using multiple companies, shelf companies and trust accounts to hide the true ownership details. So in affect all you have on the accreditation list are entity names. So what? Best of luck finding the true owners!

Added info - that's why companies exsist, they allow corporations to distance the owners from the business(s) unlike a sole trader, who can't hide their identity.

It shows that the people behind the company did something to get going. Same with the license.

In order to incorporate or form an Llc. or get a license from the weakest of jurisdictions there are certain things that must be done, even if it is just paying a fee, it shows that the ownership is or was at some time serious about the future of their endeavor.

 

[nepatsfan01]

Hi

Thanks for your input... I will be the first to admit that we had teething issues when we launched. These are/were well documented and is what we try our damndest to avoid ever happening again.

With respect to the issue you raise, are you referring to the cashout that you requested in April 2012? According to our notes, that took 3 weeks (22 days) to action after some back and forth with the banks. If so, I hope that your subsequent engagements with us have been more efficient?

SS Ops

That is what you may have in your computer, but I promise you, it wasn't 22 days. Not by a long shot. I think it took a few weeks to even approve it, and once you did that I was told week after week that it was going to be "The next day."

I remember this clearly and I even have PM's in CM speaking with others going through the same thing. In fact, I just looked up a thread in which it shows that I cashed out on April 2nd but didn't get my final payment until May 22nd. There were 2 different withdrawals, 1st one I got paid after 18 days or so... the 2nd one I cashed out on April 11th and didn't get paid until May 22nd (I had made the 2nd withdrawal off of what I had left after cashing out before I knew that it would take so long to get paid). That's 6 weeks. So 3 weeks the first time, 6 weeks the 2nd time. That's too long. Way too long when we have plenty of casinos that pay the cash out in a mere day or two.

And btw, it didn't have anything to do with my bank, it had to do with your processor.

Either way, I was just sharing my experience. If you have anything further to add about my particulars then feel free and PM me... I certainly am not here to bicker.

 

[SunSet Slot Ops]

Again, I want to thank you for sharing with us. I was in no way trying to get into a "he said, she said" with you. We were at fault initially, regardless of the banks etc. your engagement is with us and the delay is inexcusable. I take full ownership of that and apologise again if no one did back then.

May 2012 is a long time ago and we have done everything in our power to make sure that the issues that we faced back then remain in the past.

I think that the fact that there have been no complaints online about our payment timeframes since those last episodes around 12-18 months ago bear testament to that.
I look forward to seeing you in the casino again soon???

That is what you may have in your computer, but I promise you, it wasn't 22 days. Not by a long shot. I think it took a few weeks to even approve it, and once you did that I was told week after week that it was going to be "The next day."

I remember this clearly and I even have PM's in CM speaking with others going through the same thing. In fact, I just looked up a thread in which it shows that I cashed out on April 2nd but didn't get my final payment until May 22nd. There were 2 different withdrawals, 1st one I got paid after 18 days or so... the 2nd one I cashed out on April 11th and didn't get paid until May 22nd (I had made the 2nd withdrawal off of what I had left after cashing out before I knew that it would take so long to get paid). That's 6 weeks. So 3 weeks the first time, 6 weeks the 2nd time. That's too long. Way too long when we have plenty of casinos that pay the cash out in a mere day or two.

And btw, it didn't have anything to do with my bank, it had to do with your processor.

Either way, I was just sharing my experience. If you have anything further to add about my particulars then feel free and PM me... I certainly am not here to bicker.

 

[aceking123]

any news on wether the term of 20x bonus & deposit max withdrawal term is going to be removed on these 100% & 50% chips ? ? damn wheres dunover when you need him

 

[SunSet Slot Ops]

The short answer to your question is No, there isn't any news. We haven't really sat down and discussed it in depth. we know that a few people have raised it but we are trying to find a middle ground that is enticing enough to players without exposing the casino too much - that's the eternal battle at the end of the day I suppose. This is different for different offers and in some cases for players on different Player Classes but that doesn't address this specific issue...

Do you have any suggestions? I know that a few people would like no limitations but there are an equal number that say that you shouldn't even play with bonuses in the first place!!

any news on wether the term of 20x bonus & deposit max withdrawal term is going to be removed on these 100% & 50% chips ? ? damn wheres dunover when you need him

 

[De Beuker]

The short answer to your question is No, there isn't any news. We haven't really sat down and discussed it in depth. we know that a few people have raised it but we are trying to find a middle ground that is enticing enough to players without exposing the casino too much - that's the eternal battle at the end of the day I suppose. This is different for different offers and in some cases for players on different Player Classes but that doesn't address this specific issue...

Do you have any suggestions? I know that a few people would like no limitations but there are an equal number that say that you shouldn't even play with bonuses in the first place!!

Just my opinion, but I think max. cashout restrictions should only ever apply to no-deposit bonuses.
There are exceptions, in the good ole days when Vegas Regal were a good place to play they had those 1 hour €500 free promo's where you had to double the 500.- during the first hour.
You could then redeem the winnings (up to 500.-) as a bonus on a 25.- deposit.
Thats 2000% bonus.
If you then managed to play through the 500.- 30 times it became a cashable bonus.
Max. cashout was 1x bonus.
No problems with that promo, won 3 times from it.
Loads of playtime if I didnt win.

But a lousy 50-100% matchbonus should, in my eyes, NEVER have a max. cashout attached to it.
The WR should be more then enough to make it EV-.
I mean, first you have to clear the WR, and if you do hit that dreamhit you can only cashout a part of it?
Your casino, your choice, but I would never play under those conditions.

 

[KasinoKing]

I have the opposite opinion to DeBeuker; I think casinos should be able to put max cash-outs on deposit bonuses if they see fit - as long as this is very clearly stated in the T&Cs.
Players are free to chose if they want to take bonuses or not - no-one is forcing them to take them (especially at Rival casinos, where AFAIK they are never automatic bonuses).

Personally, as a low-roller I would rather have a good bonus with low WR and a (reasonable) max cash-out, than one with high WR and no cash-out limit.
Players who prefer high variance, bet very big or play progressives should not take bonuses with limits. It's just common sense.

KK

 

[Nifty29]

FTR, I wasn't requesting the name, address, DOB and favorite color of the individuals that own Sunset.

I was trying to ascertain if they are owned by Rival themselves, as indicated by the reference to Bonne Chance on their website....which seems to suggest they are a white label in some form. Bryan and the rep say they ain't, so in the absence of any further evidence, they ain't.

The question I have about the "need to protect the casino" using max cashouts....why does just about every other casino NOT see this as an issue and hence NOT have these ridiculous restrictions? With respect, the only reason I can think of as to why Rival operators seem to do it is cashflow and/or lack of financial backing.

Any well funded operator should be able to ride out the peaks and troughs. If you don't want players cashing out huge amounts from bonuses, then:

1. Increase WR

2. Limit bet sizes

3. Don't offer as many bonuses

Its not rocket science.

I won't play at any casino that has max cashouts on deposit bonuses, even if I'm going to play without one. It tells me something about the operators.

Some might think max cashouts are fine, but some think $500 every fortnight is fine when withdrawing winnings. I'd be surprised if the majority of players approved of it, and considering the idea of bonuses is to attract said players, it's a poor marketing move.