Stake, Streamers and Crypto Casinos

[Smithyy]

I think it's worth pointing out that while Stake do appear to have been singled out - they are also one of the few crypto casinos to operate legally in the UK (via a United Kingdom Gambling Commission (UKGC) license), and then in the rest of the world with their Curacao license. I, however, doubt the UKGC will take a positive view on their non-UK licensed activities, whether we agree with that or not.

Edit: Stake's UK business are not able to accept crypto.

 

[SuperTed88]

LOL, the U

 

[jasonuk]

I think it's worth pointing out that while Stake do appear to have been singled out - they are also one of the few crypto casinos to operate legally in the UK (via a United Kingdom Gambling Commission (UKGC) license), and then in the rest of the world with their Curacao license. I, however, doubt the UKGC will take a positive view on their non-UK licensed activities, whether we agree with that or not.

Edit: Stake's UK business are not able to accept crypto.

As we've discussed on other threads, I wouldn't put too much weight on this - and I'd consider it largely irrelevant.

It's a white label used by a number of offshore operators as an entry point to sponsor sports teams in the UK. The casino operator itself offers two providers - one who is a leading partner in their monopoly money "enterprises", the other nobody has heard of.

Given the elaborate corporate structures involved, who knows how much (if any) overlap there is between the two organisations, or if it's literally payment for a name and a piece of paper.

 

[shepster]

Word of warning in relation to bc.game. I deposited £500 over the course of a few weeks, went to withdraw £600 yesterday and was asked to verify my identity… waiting to hear back on what happens now, but even my most optimistic self has to concede my money is lost.

 

[Webzcas]

Word of warning in relation to bc.game. I deposited £500 over the course of a few weeks, went to withdraw £600 yesterday and was asked to verify my identity… waiting to hear back on what happens now, but even my most optimistic self has to concede my money is lost.

Interestingly @kou187 mentioned the same thing happened to him at bc.game in this post here Are crypto casinos breaking the law? - Casinomeister Forum

 

[jasonuk]

Dont know if that's the case with all these outfits, there was a guy who signed up to K8? As he seen thon rock in roller guy playing there, low and behold he hit 25k and the casino just blanked the guy wouldn't process the withdrawal and talk to the hand .

If you mean the K8 comment, the post is at

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

- but be aware there isn't much beyond a barebones opening complaint (and they were advised to DM one of the admins, so it's unclear if or when there will be any further updates)…

It's been a few weeks since we last discussed it (on 20th September), was hoping to hear some good news from the poster but saddened to report it's taken a rather dark turn. The OP returned a week later to indicate they still hadn't been paid (after four weeks) and no further public updates in the three weeks since, but also the tragic news that their friend committed suicide after losing all their money on that site and Stake.

Additionally, the gulf between streamer and community seems to be widening - as the former promotes an "ever growing community of degenerates" (from yesterday's stream on Twitch, although the stream VOD has since disappeared) and the latter is realising the KYC trap being sprung on them, the hypocrisy of "responsible gambling" when pushing gamstop and crypto at the same time, and the lack of promised transparency.

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

Are u referring to Rollas stream from yesterday? I was gonna catch up with that today but noticed it was not available?? What’s the story there?

 

[jasonuk]

Are u referring to Rollas stream from yesterday? I was gonna catch up with that today but noticed it was not available?? What’s the story there?

It's tough to tell from the stream itself, the last couple of minutes he seemed distracted by something before the stream went dead (in a way that chat assumed it was a technical issue - he'd been live for 2 1/2 hours and didn't say anything about ending or switching) - but he started posting links to the fake platform instead shortly afterwards. I refuse to support streams over there so no clue if he said any more on the other side, sorry.

 

[nisosbar]

the tragic news that their friend committed suicide after losing all their money on that site

That is super horrible. Keep in mind that from what I have heard, this sort of thing happens frequently in Las Vegas and Macau; i.e., it's not limited to online crypto casinos.

I remember during the hold em poker glory days, playing in Atlantic City at the Hilton's casino, the mature lady dealer mentioned for some reason, "... but then, I don't gamble, so there you go." To a newbie, a bizarre statement, a card dealer in a casino who doesn't gamble...? But when you consider how miserable life can turn for those who don't respect limits (and how much of that she had then observed), then it can begin to make sense.

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

It's tough to tell from the stream itself, the last couple of minutes he seemed distracted by something before the stream went dead (in a way that chat assumed it was a technical issue - he'd been live for 2 1/2 hours and didn't say anything about ending or switching) - but he started posting links to the fake platform instead shortly afterwards. I refuse to support streams over there so no clue if he said any more on the other side, sorry.

Fake platform???

 

[jasonuk]

That is super horrible. Keep in mind that from what I have heard, this sort of thing happens frequently in Las Vegas and Macau; i.e., it's not limited to online crypto casinos.

I remember during the hold em poker glory days, playing in Atlantic City at the Hilton's casino, the mature lady dealer mentioned for some reason, "... but then, I don't gamble, so there you go." To a newbie, a bizarre statement, a card dealer in a casino who doesn't gamble...? But when you consider how miserable life can turn for those who don't respect limits (and how much of that she had then observed), then it can begin to make sense.

For sure, the more "unchecked" the situation is (FOBTs, Vegas and Macau, regulated operators turning a blind eye, rogue operators) the more dangerous it'll get. For the number of people that experience some level of gambling harm (a figure that is hotly disputed by the industry, given an accurate number will inevitably impact their bottom line), the amount of support available is woefully short.

Anyone that has taken a few hours to listen to @ChopleyIOM's Gambling Low Ebbs series will appreciate how serious it can get - and I would respectfully state that was in the days of lower intensity gambling... now-a-days it's on every computer and mobile, advertised everywhere, at higher stakes, and in sectors - such as video games - that people wouldn't necessarily expect. As we saw with the recovering gambling addict who found FIFA and punted off five figures because it scratched the gambling itch he was trying to fight.

Fake platform???

He started streaming there a few months back when he started going down the crypto route - it sounds like YouTube has started giving him trouble of late and if Twitch are starting to do the same then he may not have any options left but the fake platform.

If he's playing with real funds then he'll struggle to compete with all the fake Stake streamers, and if he goes rogue then he'll fit right in and we can chalk him off as another con artist... which would be a sad ending given the great content over the years but everyone has their own path.

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

The likes of Rolla, Craig and Jimbo and Bandit etc are getting paid by the casinos not via affiliation but for promoting them in videos so it’s most likely a per video fee or some kind of rolling contract for supplying content. Obviously only they know the terms and conditions of such affairs.

But I’m only saying what they’ve already admitted.

Now you can look at that in 2 different ways in the fact that they are using their own ‘income’ to then gamble or that they are paid to gamble by said casino on their platform.

The only difference between them and the other Cunts doing £100 a spin and buying £10 million bonus buys is that they are not getting an unlimited supply of ‘fake’ cash given to them.

It’s not a surprise they’ve gone down this route, in fact they are probably all enjoying a current up term in earnings due to it.

But at the end of the day they’re still guiding or attempting to guide uk players whether it be via their own website or vocally on their streams / video content to casinos which UK players shouldn’t really be using. Casinos which can turn around and say go fuck yaself we are not paying you as you shouldn’t be here.

Tbf half the casinos from this site or Dazzas can do exactly the same so the crypto crew will argue that no doubt.

I mean you can’t even get on BC Game without a vpn if ur in the uk so fuck knows how ‘legit’ it is when it comes to getting paid.

I notice on bandits site there are a few people saying they aren’t getting paid due to KYC?

Excuse me for being an idiot but how can you provide ID to a casino that doesn’t actually allow UK players?? What are they gonna say when you provide ur UK driving licence stating you live in fucking Clacton?

Of course the likes of the bandit etc are saying they haven’t had any trouble getting paid?? Well of course not ffs, ur on the payroll!!!

I watch most of these guys don’t get me wrong, except Chip of course as he is and always will be a total cunt, but all this seems a little off to me.

It seems most of the UK content providers are all playing at these places and happily promoting them. Even the likes of the gentleman gambler have gone over to the dark side!! Even Miss Tizzy (what an incredible woman!!) was punting away at BC!!

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

It will be interesting to see what the BC UK site is all about when launched tho.

 

[dunover]

But at the end of the day they’re still guiding or attempting to guide uk players whether it be via their own website or vocally on their streams / video content to casinos which UK players shouldn’t really be using. Casinos which can turn around and say go fuck yaself we are not paying you as you shouldn’t be here.

Tbf half the casinos from this site or Dazzas can do exactly the same so the crypto crew will argue that no doubt.

Sorry?
I only promote UKGC sites NO crapto ones! None of my promoted sites would say to a UK player 'you shouldn't be here we're not paying you...' They are 100% UKGC. I'm not sure I even have the word 'crypto' anywhere on my pages.

Please tell me what sites I advertise that take unlicensed crypto from UK players?

 

[jasonuk]

The likes of Rolla, Craig and Jimbo and Bandit etc are getting paid by the casinos not via affiliation but for promoting them in videos so it’s most likely a per video fee or some kind of rolling contract for supplying content. Obviously only they know the terms and conditions of such affairs.

But I’m only saying what they’ve already admitted.

Now you can look at that in 2 different ways in the fact that they are using their own ‘income’ to then gamble or that they are paid to gamble by said casino on their platform.

Affiliation has always been a circle in that sense, so from our perspective it's six of one and half a dozen of the other. As long as there's a clear audit trail in terms of the money we see on stream is real money (or real + bonus with clearly defined and realistic bonus terms).

It’s not a surprise they’ve gone down this route, in fact they are probably all enjoying a current up term in earnings due to it.

But at the end of the day they’re still guiding or attempting to guide uk players whether it be via their own website or vocally on their streams / video content to casinos which UK players shouldn’t really be using. Casinos which can turn around and say go fuck yaself we are not paying you as you shouldn’t be here.

And I suspect they will at some point... if Curacao is forced to clean up then customers from countries on the blocked list - including UK, France and US - are going to be facing the highest risks.

I notice on bandits site there are a few people saying they aren’t getting paid due to KYC?

Excuse me for being an idiot but how can you provide ID to a casino that doesn’t actually allow UK players?? What are they gonna say when you provide ur UK driving licence stating you live in fucking Clacton?

We're seeing an increase across the board - been a few threads here on CM as well. It'll depend if the KYC is a front or not, whether:

• they are lying to the regulator and accept anything as KYC (including non-documents),
• they are lying to the customer and accept nothing as KYC (the fraudsters),
• the emerging third track, where they are making a genuine effort to do KYC and now have a headache of their own making because they've encouraged players to sign up that they can't pay out - and where the player will get canned and lose their money when it happens.

As we discussed earlier in the thread, while the regulators struggle to go after the Curacao operators, they can and absolutely should go after the affiliates if they still have business activity in the UK. Someone promoting a bogus financial product would get clobbered by the FCA, and the same should happen for gambling and the UKGC/ASA.

 

[jasonuk]

Sorry?
I only promote UKGC sites NO crapto ones! None of my promoted sites would say to a UK player 'you shouldn't be here we're not paying you...' They are 100% UKGC. I'm not sure I even have the word 'crypto' anywhere on my pages.

Please tell me what sites I advertise that take unlicensed crypto from UK players?

There's one news article that talks about crypto - but is somewhere between neutral and negative. I had a look and couldn't see any crypto sites so I think they've confused your site with somebody else.

Of course, the UKGC sites can stick a middle finger up as well, but location wouldn't be the reason for UK-based players.

Additionally, CM members (such as @dunover) who promote their affiliate websites abide by a secondary code of conduct, which can be found at Webmeister Websites: Affiliate Webmaster's Code of Conduct. I would anticipate that promoting non-UKGC sites to UKGC players would fall somewhere between unethical and prey on problem gamblers.

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

Sorry?
I only promote UKGC sites NO crapto ones! None of my promoted sites would say to a UK player 'you shouldn't be here we're not paying you...' They are 100% UKGC. I'm not sure I even have the word 'crypto' anywhere on my pages.

Please tell me what sites I advertise that take unlicensed crypto from UK players?

Jeez calm down!! I’m talking about casinos not paying players!! Using all sorts of bullshit to not pay people. Not just referring to crypto sites in particular.

As in people complaining over at the bandits site they aren’t getting paid is no different to people saying that about the ones they’ve joined via here or ur site. Crypto or not.

As I’ve stated before when you had 100 sites listed a while back, anybody with half a clue wouldn’t touch 75% of them.

I never said you were promoting crypto did I?

And that would be their(uk streamer/content makers) argument in response. Any casino can tell u to do one or make u jump thru hoops to get paid. UKGC licensed or not.

 

[dunover]

Affiliation has always been a circle in that sense, so from our perspective it's six of one and half a dozen of the other. As long as there's a clear audit trail in terms of the money we see on stream is real money (or real + bonus with clearly defined and realistic bonus terms).


And I suspect they will at some point... if Curacao is forced to clean up then customers from countries on the blocked list - including UK, France and US - are going to be facing the highest risks.


We're seeing an increase across the board - been a few threads here on CM as well. It'll depend if the KYC is a front or not, whether:

• they are lying to the regulator and accept anything as KYC (including non-documents),
• they are lying to the customer and accept nothing as KYC (the fraudsters),
• the emerging third track, where they are making a genuine effort to do KYC and now have a headache of their own making because they've encouraged players to sign up that they can't pay out - and where the player will get canned and lose their money when it happens.

As we discussed earlier in the thread, while the regulators struggle to go after the Curacao operators, they can and absolutely should go after the affiliates if they still have business activity in the UK. Someone promoting a bogus financial product would get clobbered by the FCA, and the same should happen for gambling and the UKGC/ASA.

FTR I have been offered 2 streaming deals in the past. The first was to promote a single casino for which I would have had 'free' real money each time and could withdraw any winnings (not much, we're talking a couple of hundred a day Fri/Sat but obviously I would get a reasonable CPA for each £20 baseline NDP.

Second was for a crapto (this year) I would have preloaded demo funds of several thousands (no w/ds) and would have to play 20 1-hour plus live-stream sessions a month and each would be uploaded after as a YT video (sponsored) and for this there was no CPA but the money was significant, 5 figures per month with a review after the first 3 months.

The money sloshing about in crapto is mind boggling. No or few banking fees, low offshore tax regimes, no need to license or do KYC (although many do) and above all no borders if they choose. People are getting very rich very quickly as in the late 1990's to 2000's with affiliate sites/casinos after the explosion in online gambling. Only this time it will be harder to clamp down on it bar nations banning the purchase of crypto.

 

[dunover]

Jeez calm down!! I’m talking about casinos not paying players!! Using all sorts of bullshit to not pay people. Not just referring to crypto sites in particular.

As in people complaining over at the bandits site they aren’t getting paid is no different to people saying that about the ones they’ve joined via here or ur site. Crypto or not.

As I’ve stated before when you had 100 sites listed a while back, anybody with half a clue wouldn’t touch 75% of them.

I never said you were promoting crypto did I?

And that would be their(uk streamer/content makers) argument in response. Any casino can tell u to do one or make u jump thru hoops to get paid. UKGC licensed or not.

You should've worded it better. You have two consecutive sentences of which the first makes the statement about not paying 'cos you shouldn't be there:

Casinos which can turn around and say go fuck yaself we are not paying you as you shouldn’t be here.

Then sentence two which makes the case that half of the CM sites and mine can do the same:

Tbf half the casinos from this site or Dazzas can do exactly the same so the crypto crew will argue that no doubt.

So as CM promotes crypto and I definitely do not, it reads that my sites may not pay too solely for the reason you're from the UK.

The difference is that a UK site can only refuse to pay UK players for limited and specific reasons, with rules from its license and also a proper arbitration service to fall back on. A crapto site can simply not pay a UK player, ermmm, because they don't feel like it. So a bit unfair to my site in two ways.

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

FTR I have been offered 2 streaming deals in the past. The first was to promote a single casino for which I would have had 'free' real money each time and could withdraw any winnings (not much, we're talking a couple of hundred a day Fri/Sat but obviously I would get a reasonable CPA for each £20 baseline NDP.

Second was for a crapto (this year) I would have preloaded demo funds of several thousands (no w/ds) and would have to play 20 1-hour plus live-stream sessions a month and each would be uploaded after as a YT video (sponsored) and for this there was no CPA but the money was significant, 5 figures per month with a review after the first 3 months.

The money sloshing about in crapto is mind boggling. No or few banking fees, low offshore tax regimes, no need to license or do KYC (although many do) and above all no borders if they choose. People are getting very rich very quickly as in the late 1990's to 2000's with affiliate sites/casinos after the explosion in online gambling. Only this time it will be harder to clamp down on it bar nations banning the purchase of crypto.

I hope you explained to said crypto casino you were earning more than that every month off bonanza anyway!!!

 

[dunover]

I hope you explained to said crypto casino you were earning more than that every month off bonanza anyway!!!

No, I insisted they replaced my exisitng 105% RTP model with a 110% one AND let me keep any profits, instead of the fixed payment. Emphatically, they said no.

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

You should've worded it better. You have two consecutive sentences of which the first makes the statement about not paying 'cos you shouldn't be there:

Casinos which can turn around and say go fuck yaself we are not paying you as you shouldn’t be here.

Then sentence two which makes the case that half of the CM sites and mine can do the same:

Tbf half the casinos from this site or Dazzas can do exactly the same so the crypto crew will argue that no doubt.

So as CM promotes crypto and I definitely do not, it reads that my sites may not pay too solely for the reason you're from the UK.

The difference is that a UK site can only refuse to pay UK players for limited and specific reasons, with rules from its license and also a proper arbitration service to fall back on. A crapto site can simply not pay a UK player, ermmm, because they don't feel like it. So a bit unfair to my site in two ways.

Yes fair enough but I assumed people would get the gist of it!!

People having problems all over the shop with KYC and docs being refused etc etc at loads of places all UKGC licensed. And that’s exactly what the crypto crew will use when ever it’s mentioned to them.

‘Well you can get that anywhere you play these days’ etc etc….

Tbf they’d be right!!!

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

Has anybody here tried the Stake UK site yet? I had a peak but you have to be registered to check RTP etc.

 

[jasonuk]

Has anybody here tried the Stake UK site yet? I had a peak but you have to be registered to check RTP etc.

The warning signs are way before that - they offer two providers, one with a very questionable past, the other nobody had heard of. As discussed elsewhere, it's a front to allow them to get their name on football shirts... same as the other casinos (who sponsor EPL teams) using that aggregator with basically no games.

Second was for a crapto (this year) I would have preloaded demo funds of several thousands (no w/ds) and would have to play 20 1-hour plus live-stream sessions a month and each would be uploaded after as a YT video (sponsored) and for this there was no CPA but the money was significant, 5 figures per month with a review after the first 3 months.

Appreciate the transparency. As you say it's staggering the amount of money sloshing around - and I guess it makes sense if you frame it as gambling + possible fraud (given there's very clear deception, and UK-based players are likely to encounter problems down the road as we're starting to see) rather than pure gambling.

I guess that's where the previous generation (such as Roobet) made their mistake - they had all the pieces, but the next generation (Stake etc) turbo-charged it by going even bigger on the deception and investing in celebrities - because surely X, Y and Z celebrities wouldn't lie about this stuff (oh sweet summer child )

As they've realised, speed is of the essence - with both crypto as a whole and crypto gambling coming under increased scrutiny. When the time comes, many of them will run off into the night and will be a lot of people wondering where the chairs are after the music stops. The operators will be long gone, the providers will shrug their shoulders, and the streamers will be left to face the brunt of the backlash.

Which is a shame because it's an interesting idea in principle, but inevitably where there is money, there will be con artists and fraudsters...