Slots Fairness Discussion (Cut from Other Thread)

[interlog]

I had an attempt to film my complete session, see the last 4 vids on my channel:

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few notes on that:

- Handpay took really long in between. I requested to turn the 250 euro limit off as they do for me in my own casino, but they where not allowed in the location i where.

- I quit filming after the 4th video, and where i stopped filming i happend to win a 1500. I left the place with profit that is yes.

I am going soon again with another live session; but i make sure that everything is 'set' and that i actually have my battery pack along with me. So subscribe i guess and see for yourself.



I dont know which casino's you visit but i never saw any knuckle based security guy standing on the door. That must be a real awfull landbased casino then.

How can you play at a casino where "hand pay" is less than 40x your bet and you have to get an attendant to pay you. Not the kind of experience I would want to be part off.

 

[Deleted member 37551]

All the members in this thread have my support,I find the subject very hard because I always thought that every slot was random on every spin what most of You said,I really would not know that slots have not a random outcome because of RTP or something else,I never knew that and I still do not know that and I can not prove it.

 

[Bloatgoat]

How can you play at a casino where "hand pay" is less than 40x your bet and you have to get an attendant to pay you. Not the kind of experience I would want to be part off.

Dude, i know. It depends on the casino you are in. My favorite simply turns that shit off or at least put the threshold at 1000 euro. Others have a limit of in this case, 250 euro.



5 grand hit, not a handpay sign anywhere. This was in amsterdam. Pretty rare view on 10 euro a spin and a hell of a hit.

All the members in this thread have my support,I find the subject very hard because I always thought that every slot was random on every spin what most of You said,I really would not know that slots have not a random outcome because of RTP or something else,I never knew that and I still do not know that and I can not prove it.

RTP + Math algorithm is basicly what you are looking at when playing. And from my experience, online casino's have a very 'mid' hit frequency with barely enough payout to just stay within those RTP. It's bullshit.

 

[trancemonkey]

All the members in this thread have my support,I find the subject very hard because I always thought that every slot was random on every spin what most of You said,I really would not know that slots have not a random outcome because of RTP or something else,I never knew that and I still do not know that and I can not prove it.

Slots are random - the outcome of a game is randomly determined. Not all results are evenly distributed - you don't have the same chance of 1000x as you do 1x
The outcome is a result of this random determination.
End of
This is a fact.
What people believe is up to them.
If you choose to ignore facts in pursuit of ignorance, that's up to you.

 

[Deleted member 37551]

Slots are random - the outcome of a game is randomly determined. Not all results are evenly distributed - you don't have the same chance of 1000x as you do 1x
The outcome is a result of this random determination.
End of
This is a fact.
What people believe is up to them.
If you choose to ignore facts in pursuit of ignorance, that's up to you.

So there is not in anyway to predict or tell that a slot is going to pay out or not,the slots are build that way

 

[Deleted member 37551]

or the software is designed like that I am not a game producer like You are,I would not know anything about that

 

[trancemonkey]

So there is not in anyway to predict or tell that a slot is going to pay out or not,the slots are build that way

Of course there isn't - they are random. They have no idea what has happened before or what will happen...
Regardless of what some might think...

 

[Deleted member 37551]

Does that mean that the RTP changes every spin also?I guess that is so ,so if a Casino gives a RTP percentage it is over a period of time and not just one moment

 

[Bloatgoat]

Does that mean that the RTP changes every spin also?I guess that is so ,so if a Casino gives a RTP percentage it is over a period of time and not just one moment

RTP is calculated based on the amount of spins on a certain bet. This is how they generate jackpots for example on machines with a Major / Grand jackpot. A certain amount of spins on a certain amount of bets has to be played first before it will hit.

But what you are facing is what i already encountered over a long period of play. You just dont seem to win really on online slots. Their maths are designed in such a way that you will defenitly lose, no matter if you go ape shit on big bets or extremely low. It's just the greedy way of the cookie that's named ONLINE CASINO SLOTS.

 

[interlog]

RTP is calculated based on the amount of spins on a certain bet. This is how they generate jackpots for example on machines with a Major / Grand jackpot. A certain amount of spins on a certain amount of bets has to be played first before it will hit.

But what you are facing is what i already encountered over a long period of play. You just dont seem to win really on online slots. Their maths are designed in such a way that you will defenitly lose, no matter if you go ape shit on big bets or extremely low. It's just the greedy way of the cookie that's named ONLINE CASINO SLOTS.

The reply will be that jackpots can trigger at any given spin. It does not build up the jackpot first before it releases. If that is the case, nobody would play these slots immediately after the jackpot has triggered.

Both online and B&M slots are designed to take money of you. It is what they do.

 

[Deleted member 37551]

The reply will be that jackpots can trigger at any given spin. It does not build up the jackpot first before it releases. If that is the case, nobody would play these slots immediately after the jackpot has triggered.

Both online and B&M slots are designed to take money of you. It is what they do.

that is very evident You just said that,so the change of winning is smaller then I think?,out of curiousity

 

[interlog]

that is very evident You just said that,so the change of winning is smaller then I think?,out of curiousity

All I will say to you is that when you make the deposit consider it lost. If it turns into a profit then you have beat the odds and you had a good session.

 

[Deleted member 37551]

All I will say to you is that when you make the deposit consider it lost. If it turns into a profit then you have beat the odds and you had a good session.

I understand,do not get me wrong,I do not feel cheated,I find it is my own responsibility if I gamble or not ,also because I know how dangerous gambling can be

 

[Bloatgoat]

The reply will be that jackpots can trigger at any given spin. It does not build up the jackpot first before it releases. If that is the case, nobody would play these slots immediately after the jackpot has triggered.

Both online and B&M slots are designed to take money of you. It is what they do.

So what do you think will happen if a new machine starts throwing jackpots then? It's calculated, maths, remember? Over a given period of time the machine should generate money for the casino. Not the other way around.

I dont believe triggering at any given spin. Actually i never played machines with major / grand feature on top of that. I always stick to what I like best.

 

[snorky510238]

Slots are random - the outcome of a game is randomly determined. Not all results are evenly distributed - you don't have the same chance of 1000x as you do 1x
The outcome is a result of this random determination.
End of
This is a fact.
What people believe is up to them.
If you choose to ignore facts in pursuit of ignorance, that's up to you.

The whole point of truly random is that each outcome has the same chance of happening to begin with.As you state here that is simply not the case.

 

[Bloatgoat]

I understand,do not get me wrong,I do not feel cheated,I find it is my own responsibility if I gamble or not ,also because I know how dangerous gambling can be

What country are you from? Holland? Your name really looks like it.

From my experience; stay away from online slots. They have a horrible payout.

The whole point of truly random is that each outcome has the same chance of happening to begin with.As you state here that is simply not the case.

This has bin discussed a few pages back. Bottomline: there's a RNG and maths which ensure the set RTP is being archieved. The mathematical calculation is what is responsible for the wins / losses on short/long term. That's all there is to to a slot.

They say it's random outcome but Trancemonkey already stated in here that the MATH's being used makes it as good as a random outcome. Just not a truly outcome. If that was the case then the slot would be a lose bullet throwing jackpot after jackpot. Casino's cant afford that.

now that Interlog has given me an answer I frankly know and I knew all that time since I started gambling what the risks are,sorry for that

Dont appologize to me man. Just dont play for the sake anymore online.

 

[Deleted member 37551]

What country are you from? Holland? Your name really looks like it.

From my experience; stay away from online slots. They have a horrible payout.

now that Interlog has given me an answer I frankly know and I knew all that time since I started gambling what the risks are,sorry for that

 

[interlog]

So what do you think will happen if a new machine starts throwing jackpots then? It's calculated, maths, remember? Over a given period of time the machine should generate money for the casino. Not the other way around.

I dont believe triggering at any given spin. Actually i never played machines with major / grand feature on top of that. I always stick to what I like best.

Well I rarely play jackpot games either because a percentage of your bet goes towards funding the jackpot so the RTP in the base game is going to be lower (well that is my understanding of it, but somebody probably will correct me on that)

 

[Bloatgoat]

now that Interlog has given me an answer I frankly know and I knew all that time since I started gambling what the risks are,sorry for that

You need to understand that, the maths behind a slot game, apart from RNG, are designed in such a way, to make you return and play over and over again. Based on those same maths, it's designed in such a way the longer you play the more you lose. You lost money, you want to win a part of that back, get even or based on a previous experience, win 'big' again. But that is exactly what it is doing with you in your mind. Dont be fooled. There's big data being applied to all the players playing behaviour and how it even more make you want to push beyond. It's bin tested on rats lol, back in the 70's, that rats would be rewarded (small win) by doing simple tasks (pressing start / bet). There's only a few people on online slots who are fortunate enough (such as I, once, 100 free spins on 21 bet) and walk away with profit. The rest are just money milking clients having their share into casino's revenue.

See, you question if the slot or gameplay you are doing, is legal or not. You have a feeling something is wrong or actually not going as it should. Well, it made perfect sense to me a few days ago, in the following post with video on how important math's are into a slot game.

I woud'nt say it is criminal, but it's pretty much unetical to provide something that could create a new breed of compulsive gamblers. That is exactly what a casino makes the most profit from.

 

[interlog]

You need to understand that, the maths behind a slot game, apart from RNG, are designed in such a way, to make you return and play over and over again. Based on those same maths, it's designed in such a way the longer you play the more you lose. You lost money, you want to win a part of that back, get even or based on a previous experience, win 'big' again. But that is exactly what it is doing with you in your mind. Dont be fooled. There's big data being applied to all the players playing behaviour and how it even more make you want to push beyond. It's bin tested on rats lol, back in the 70's, that rats would be rewarded (small win) by doing simple tasks (pressing start / bet). There's only a few people on online slots who are fortunate enough (such as I, once, 100 free spins on 21 bet) and walk away with profit. The rest are just money milking clients having their share into casino's revenue.

But that is what slots do. They take your money. It is really as simple as that. And that applies to both online and B&M.

 

[snorky510238]

What country are you from? Holland? Your name really looks like it.

From my experience; stay away from online slots. They have a horrible payout.



This has bin discussed a few pages back. Bottomline: there's a RNG and maths which ensure the set RTP is being archieved. The mathematical calculation is what is responsible for the wins / losses on short/long term. That's all there is to to a slot.

They say it's random outcome but Trancemonkey already stated in here that the MATH's being used makes it as good as a random outcome. Just not a truly outcome. If that was the case then the slot would be a lose bullet throwing jackpot after jackpot. Casino's cant afford that.



Dont appologize to me man. Just dont play for the sake anymore online.

The bottom line is you can't use maths to balance random and outcomes.The minute you do this you are influencing the result which nullifies truly random.

 

[Bloatgoat]

But that is what slots do. They take your money. It is really as simple as that. And that applies to both online and B&M.

I know above quote takes the fun out of any slot, if you look at it this way. But it really bothers me that they are using a math that leads to more and more gambling. People who dont show or have any risk with gambling in the first place could be opposed to a great danger. Sure, casino's state oh look our numbers are by the book correct. Yes. If i deposit 200, i play and i get back 'even', into their books it's 96% ~ 100% RTP, but many of us wont take an even for an answer. Nobody is going to withdrawl the same 200 they depositted before. It's a waste of transaction costs anyway. So we either continue or leave it for a day or 2.

And the proces repeats. Slamming yourself to the head why it's not happening. And out of the blue some fucking full screen appears and you feel all great again, untill the next cycle, where a online slot is eating your and others money, over and over again.

There is no fun in playing slots that really give you a hard time. I like an adventure but i've seen enough by now. Online slots are bullshit. Their maths or RNG's are a theater play, because certain aspects are within that math pre-designed. It leaves a very minimal chance for players basicly. You need to top out HUGE and the only way is to increase your bet size thus making you gamble even more. This is what i am talking about. Creating a new breed of compulsive gamblers.

It's very, very dangerous.

The bottom line is you can't use maths to balance random and outcomes.The minute you do this you are influencing the result which nullifies truly random.

I did not say it way truly random. It's not. It's 'close' to random. It's like semi-random. Random with respect of RTP. The math is what takes that into account. And the math is worked out so 'perfect' over the course of years since slots exist, so it will never generate a loss. From this standpoint of view, you dont stand a chance against a slot.

The only luck is being at the right moment behind a slot. That's all you have.

 

[goatwack]

Players ought to be accountable for their gambling, and stop blaming the games themselves. If an adult chooses to play a money-based pastime knowing that the machine is already at an advantage then they can't complain about it afterwards, surely.

Can't win win win all the time like some think they're entitled to. Slots aren't a sure-fire way to make money, but they sure as shit print money for the companies

It's like going to the newsagent and asking the lovely shopkeeper change for a pound. The cad gives you 97p back in coppers . You got your change but you know he's a thieving git. If you go there next time, don't be expecting the full £, ok?

The only unethical instance in recent memory applies more to eg Bonanza's 'Infinite Multiplier' slogan, and other unproven, unlikely fantastical claims. But despite all feeling a tad duped by slots, and calling them rigged in jest, there is no reason for companies to rip players off on purpose. The games do that all by themselves over extended play. All anyone can hope for is to get ahead by a lot and walk away.

Never gonna happen though

 

[Steviedoo]

I had an attempt to film my complete session, see the last 4 vids on my channel:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

few notes on that:

- Handpay took really long in between. I requested to turn the 250 euro limit off as they do for me in my own casino, but they where not allowed in the location i where.

- I quit filming after the 4th video, and where i stopped filming i happend to win a 1500. I left the place with profit that is yes.

I am going soon again with another live session; but i make sure that everything is 'set' and that i actually have my battery pack along with me. So subscribe i guess and see for yourself.



I dont know which casino's you visit but i never saw any knuckle based security guy standing on the door. That must be a real awfull landbased casino then.

Ok this proves nothing other than you are lucky.

 

[Bloatgoat]

I got some food for your thoughts on the following, 7:05 mark, and start paying attention.



Give me one reason why THAT would be any different for online play. She is talking about MATH and the way it's implemented into slots.

Second; i'd like to see a poll on this forum, for people who play online slots. What is your, out of 10 sessions, your avg win vs losses. 3 out of 10? 5 out of 10? 7 out of 10?

I think the majority is way below 4. I am talking about a win sufficient enough for you to hit withdrawl.

 

[snorky510238]

Played bonanza today started with £75 played 40p a spin.never looked like dropping the bonus but the base game kept me around level for ages then extremely slowly started to take my money and then on my last 40p completely at random GOLD straight in no cascade(x60).Draw your own conclusions.

 

[Steviedoo]

As this thread proves many times - never let facts get in the way of a good rumour

Ok. That’s why it’s called a rumour and not a fact. Didn’t say it was a fact. Or true. Where did I say it was a fact? But ok, don’t let your frustrations with everyone on this board get in the way of you reading the post properly. seems like you are now gonna take out your frustrations with certain posters on this thread ....with everyone who posts here, even the ones who agree with you. You might wanna adjust the blustery attitude.

 

[Bloatgoat]

Played bonanza today started with £75 played 40p a spin.never looked like dropping the bonus but the base game kept me around level for ages then extremely slowly started to take my money and then on my last 40p completely at random GOLD straight in no cascade(x60).Draw your own conclusions.

Yes. It means that you almost downplayed your 75 pounds so the next time you gamble it feels more easyer for you downplaying that 75 again. And before you know it you lose that.

That is, luring someone slowly into a gambling addiction. It could have dropped way before, you know.

 

[Steviedoo]

Yeah that's the legal minimum but most operate much higher than that.

Believe it or not, in Nevada the legal minimum is 75%.

And in the UK, there is no legal minimum any more!

Really. You mean it’s not a rumour that legally a casino can have an rtp in the low 70s. And in the uk there is no legal minimum..and you balked at the rumour that I heard canadian casinos operate at 72%.

Honestly before this came up I had a great amount of respect for your knowledge and your thread but now you are just treating every poster on here like an idiot. Even the ones who don’t deserve it.

 

[aceking123]

Yeah that's the legal minimum but most operate much higher than that.

Believe it or not, in Nevada the legal minimum is 75%.

And in the UK, there is no legal minimum any more!

That might have been changed but im sure that all uk fruit machines/slots have to display the rtp% on the slot ,hence we can check before playing the slot machine.

 

[Bloatgoat]

Here:

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Um die immensen Kosten abzudecken, die beim Betrieb eines „echten“ Casinos anfallen, muss sich eine Spielothek oder eine Spielbank das Geld beim Kunden, also beim Spieler, zurückholen. Dies geschieht in der Regel, indem Spielautomaten so programmiert sind, dass der Hausvorteil höher ist als in einem online Casino. Im Umkehrschluss bedeutet das, dass die Auszahlungsquoten bei Slots in Spielhallen niedriger sind als in online Casinos. Im Schnitt liegen die Auszahlungsquoten bei Slots in Spielhallen und Casinos zwischen 60% und 80%. Ganz im Unterschied dazu liegen diese Quoten bei online Casinos bei über 90%.

Translation:

On average, the payout percentages for slots in gambling halls and casinos are between 60% and 80%.

60 fucking percent! You'd be living under a rock for a while now if you believe the world is at 75% minimum. Bookie's do the same. And they dont even have to mention WHICH slots are higher RTP then the others. Various casino's offer combined slots with higher/lower RTP's, but they simply dont tell you where.

And as i said, i spoke to an OWNER of a spielhalle. Why would he falsely give out info about 60% RTP and such. These things generate a 100 euro a machine a day. They have on avg 8 to 12 machines into their building.

 

[suchfun]

Ahh suchfun ... ignoring every post and explanation about how slots work randomly. It's quite funny to see.

you saying Random Random Random while your controlling outcomes is funny to read lol.I think you should find a different word to use

 

[suchfun]

Hmmm rumour has it that Canadian casinos rtp are low...run about 75%.

not after 4790000 bazillion spins,get with the program

 

[Bloatgoat]

you saying Random Random Random while your controlling outcomes is funny to read lol.I think you should find a different word to use

The math makes sure the RTP is being as close as possible. But generally, stop looking at just RTP alone. There's more in math then just the return percentage.

 

[dionysus]

Rolls eyes
I wonder how many times trance..or me..or the dozens of people over the years has to explain THE CASINO ISN'T controlling the outcome. Just repeatedly saying they do doesn't make it so.
it's been explained ad nauseum ..it's random just that outcomes aren't equally distributed.

a bag of 10 marbles with 7 red and 3 white means the colours aren't equally distributed. what you draw is still random. I ..or the casino..don't control what you draw from the bag.

if a sponsor did some sort of contest wherein they say hey here's a bag of those 10 marbles. 9 are red one is white. if you pull rhe white well give you $1000.
what you draw is random. you just don't have equal odds of pulling a white vs a red.

in this forum there's contests where players can submit screenshots and one is randomly chosen to receive a prize. sometimes players are allowed to submit more than one. their odds of winning have increased (or yours decreased) ..is it no longer random because you have one and someone has 2?
that player or casino sponsor has now controlled the outcome because odds aren't evenly distributed?
Bryan is allowing casinos to run unfair non random contests in the forum because odds aren't equally distributed? Maybe ask him his take on that.

Honestly at this point I think you're just being willfully ignorant as this has been repeatedly explained

 

[Deleted member 37551]

I am not accusing Casinos or gamedevelopers or anybody else of manipulating games,the reason why I take part in this thread is because I gamble,and I gamble out of my own free will and know the risks.I gamble since I was 18 Years old .I am 46 years old.

 

[goatwack]

I think the only thing left to do when both parties can't agree to disagree, or even simply acknowledge another side of the equation, is gently nod and repeat the words "Aha, sure, yep, you're right, yep, ohh, really? Wow! thankyou for teaching me! I now see it differently!"

Do that at least eight times until peace ensues

 

[dionysus]

I think the only thing left to do when both parties can't agree to disagree, or even simply acknowledge another side of the equation, is gently nod and repeat the words "Aha, sure, yep, you're right, yep, ohh, really? Wow! thankyou for teaching me! I now see it differently!"

Do that at least eight times until peace ensues

lol thats why I think the thread should be forked.
everyone has said and tried to explain their side. theres enough material.and posts for anyone to scroll through and read and decide.
at this stage it's merely repeating the same information over and over

 

[goatwack]

lol thats why I think the thread should be forked.
everyone has said and tried to explain their side. theres enough material.and posts for anyone to scroll through and read and decide.
at this stage it's merely repeating the same information over and over

"Aha, sure, yep, you're right, yep, ohh, really? Wow! thankyou for teaching me! I now see it differently!"

 

[trancemonkey]

Really. You mean it’s not a rumour that legally a casino can have an rtp in the low 70s. And in the uk there is no legal minimum..and you balked at the rumour that I heard canadian casinos operate at 72%.

Honestly before this came up I had a great amount of respect for your knowledge and your thread but now you are just treating every poster on here like an idiot. Even the ones who don’t deserve it.

I’m not sure what I said to piss you off but I get the feeling you’ve taken something I’ve said totally the wrong way...

Feel free to PM me and explain what it was

 

[trancemonkey]

Yeah that's the legal minimum but most operate much higher than that.

Believe it or not, in Nevada the legal minimum is 75%.

And in the UK, there is no legal minimum any more!

That might have been changed but im sure that all uk fruit machines/slots have to display the rtp% on the slot ,hence we can check before playing the slot machine.

They do have to display it yes

 

[Deleted member 37551]

I am trying to keep up,I saw that the first thread listed,was dated :Mar 9,2017

 

[trancemonkey]

Really. You mean it’s not a rumour that legally a casino can have an rtp in the low 70s. And in the uk there is no legal minimum..and you balked at the rumour that I heard canadian casinos operate at 72%.

Honestly before this came up I had a great amount of respect for your knowledge and your thread but now you are just treating every poster on here like an idiot. Even the ones who don’t deserve it.

Feel free to explain where I’m treating everyone like an idiot? I’m super confused...

 

[snorky510238]

Rolls eyes
I wonder how many times trance..or me..or the dozens of people over the years has to explain THE CASINO ISN'T controlling the outcome. Just repeatedly saying they do doesn't make it so.
it's been explained ad nauseum ..it's random just that outcomes aren't equally distributed.

a bag of 10 marbles with 7 red and 3 white means the colours aren't equally distributed. what you draw is still random. I ..or the casino..don't control what you draw from the bag.

if a sponsor did some sort of contest wherein they say hey here's a bag of those 10 marbles. 9 are red one is white. if you pull rhe white well give you $1000.
what you draw is random. you just don't have equal odds of pulling a white vs a red.

in this forum there's contests where players can submit screenshots and one is randomly chosen to receive a prize. sometimes players are allowed to submit more than one. their odds of winning have increased (or yours decreased) ..is it no longer random because you have one and someone has 2?
that player or casino sponsor has now controlled the outcome because odds aren't evenly distributed?
Bryan is allowing casinos to run unfair non random contests in the forum because odds aren't equally distributed? Maybe ask him his take on that.

Honestly at this point I think you're just being willfully ignorant as this has been repeatedly explained

Definition of random=every outcome must have the same chance of occurring to begin with you example is influenced by an imbalance of colours.

 

[dionysus]

yes rhat is 'a' 'definition of random
so is
Without a systematic pattern or discernible sequence in its behavior or occurrence. Events or data series are said to be random when they lack specific direction, and cannot be explained or predicted except by chance or r in a probanlistic or statistical manner.

By the definition you follow every lottery every raffle every contest ever is non random

I'm really not sure what the confusion here is. If it's simply you're stuck on one defintion or the semantics then use rhe word luck or chance in your head. And if that definition you can't get around..shrugs..avoid slots.
The mechanics and means have been laid out and made transparent.

 

[paul7388]

yes rhat is 'a' 'definition of random
so is
Without a systematic pattern or discernible sequence in its behavior or occurrence. Events or data series are said to be random when they lack specific direction, and cannot be explained or predicted except by chance or r in a probanlistic or statistical manner.

By the definition you follow every lottery every raffle every contest ever is non random

I'm really not sure what the confusion here is. If it's simply you're stuck on one defintion or the semantics then use rhe word luck or chance in your head. And if that definition you can't get around..shrugs..avoid slots.
The mechanics and means have been laid out and made transparent.

"Aha, sure, yep, you're right, yep, ohh, really? Wow! thankyou for teaching me! I now see it differently!"

Just had to use that line somewhere lol

 

[dionysus]

lol well feel free to use it to quote the tinfoil hat posts

 

[paul7388]

lol well feel free to use it to quote the tinfoil hat posts

Sorry lol your post was the first one i read there.

To be honest i have gave up reading the tinfoil posts . I just skip by them and read the replies now. Guessing i have not actually missed anything

 

[dionysus]

nah haven't missed anything..same from page 30 and page 20 and page 1 from a year ago

 

[suchfun]

nah haven't missed anything..same from page 30 and page 20 and page 1 from a year ago

same guys messing up the dice,adding losing balls,setting the rng to spit out more loses and fewer winning spins but still calling it Random,lol find a different word i say Random just doesn't cut it when you can set the rtp up or down