Slots Fairness Discussion (Cut from Other Thread)

[goatwack]

So people use streamers as reference, to validate the riggedness of slots?

The world's gone to hell in a handbasket

 

[Tourettesguy]

It's when, what, if and if you do, how much
What I have learned over the years though is to trust people with knowledge, and to not trust those without.

Try that for a while and you'll see a new world open.

Good you trust me!

 

[snorky510238]

I think many people just don't understand full meaning of what "random" means...Example of randomness is if i would meet on the street or bus my school mate from school 20 years ago.If situation like this would happen then it would happen only once and never again.As before this moment we never contacted each other and live in different countries.But in slots things repeat all the time so they can not be completely random!That my opinion,and i would only change it if i would see any proof of randomness....

I Think we use the word rigged or should I say take it in the wrong context when we relate it to slots not being random.What we should say is programmed.Rigged conjures up the image that it is fixed for you not to win that's not true because some of us win and others lose.Programmed means the outcome of the spin has been influenced by what's written in the programme and the outcome can only be within the parameters of the programme.That in itself in my opinion means it is not truly random but its the programmers job to make it appear as close as possible.The difference is that irrespective of what's in the programme we all have the same chance and the same things can happen to everyone.

 

[goatwack]

I Think we use the word rigged or should I say take it in the wrong context when we relate it to slots not being random.What we should say is programmed.Rigged conjures up the image that it is fixed for you not to win that's not true because some of us win and others lose.Programmed means the outcome of the spin has been influenced by what's written in the programme and the outcome can only be within the parameters of the programme.That in itself in my opinion means it is not truly random but its the programmers job to make it appear as close as possible.The difference is that irrespective of what's in the programme we all have the same chance and the same things can happen to everyone.

Why couldn't you have joined sooner eh? That summary could have spared us six years of tinfoil theories and rigged debate!

 

[snorky510238]

Why couldn't you have joined sooner eh? That summary could have spared us six years of tinfoil theories and rigged debate!

Lol I wish I had, can't be posting here and playing slots would have saved me a fortune.

 

[snorky510238]

I watch this guys streams almost regularly.He is online now spinning Foxin wins at £550 per spin No i did not see his viewers screens but i see very often what people recommend if he asks.It is based on their playing experience during that day on certain gaming provider.

Can you ask him if there are jobs available where he works please.

 

[goatwack]

Not wanting to infect this thread with anti- streamer rhetoric, but spinning £550 per spin is obscene by anyone's standards, and should not be encouraged via any medium.

Don't care if it's his money, his nan's or the state's, it's the kind of betting that's going to skew people's expectations if ever I saw it

 

[snorky510238]

Just another question(apologies if this has been asked a million times)but what happened to the days when a win meant "win".Go back to the 1 Armed bandits at 1p a spin.Cherry on 1st reel smallest win at 2p but it was a win.Nowadays there are so many slots where 3 tens,jacks or whatever pay half your stake that's not a win.What I am thinking is there must be a reason because what game developer would put that in knowing it annoys the hell out the customers unless it was necessary(I accept it in games where multipliers are involved).Do they do it to make up part of the rtp with no risk.I mean hypathetically if you spin 3 jacks every spin at £1 a go and it returns 50p you have a 50%rtp but the player can never be ahead.Obviously nobody would play the game but given the fact that over a session we hit so many of them and they count towards the rtp seems a bit wrong because they are not "wins".

 

[greylady]

I don't have the expertise in slots development to say with confidence slots are rigged/not rigged - I do often wonder though if slots are so random how all games I play can and do play at 50% RTP for a sustained period of time and we are talking months here. Random to me means that RTP can go up or down at any given time.

 

[goatwack]

Just another question(apologies if this has been asked a million times)but what happened to the days when a win meant "win".Go back to the 1 Armed bandits at 1p a spin.Cherry on 1st reel smallest win at 2p but it was a win.Nowadays there are so many slots where 3 tens,jacks or whatever pay half your stake that's not a win.What I am thinking is there must be a reason because what game developer would put that in knowing it annoys the hell out the customers unless it was necessary(I accept it in games where multipliers are involved).Do they do it to make up part of the rtp with no risk.I mean hypathetically if you spin 3 jacks every spin at £1 a go and it returns 50p you have a 50%rtp but the player can never be ahead.Obviously nobody would play the game but given the fact that over a session we hit so many of them and they count towards the rtp seems a bit wrong because they are not "wins".

It's been explained far better by others but essentially it just boils down to slot psychology and duping you into believing you're constantly 'winning'. By far the worst has to be Bonanza for its 1x stake count-up, so in effect you end up believing that eg 24p is progress.

Just a tool to keep you playing, that is all

 

[snorky510238]

Not wanting to infect this thread with anti- streamer rhetoric, but spinning £550 per spin is obscene by anyone's standards, and should not be encouraged via any medium.

Don't care if it's his money, his nan's or the state's, it's the kind of betting that's going to skew people's expectations if ever I saw it

Yeah that's just unbelievable it's never morally right that you should be able to wager that amount on 1 spin.Never mind validating your account casinos should be asking to validate where you get that kind of money from.

 

[trancemonkey]

Ok, checked this slot on youtube...I guy got alot of deadspins here and just put in more and more and ofcorase on almsort last pin he hit the bonus...which was one spin. And when he gambled with his win sometimes he often got busted on black field when it was very tiny...I have to say I cn say this slot is very rigged in many ways. Not random at all. And these questionmarks symbols was not random when they came only now and then but always on several reel when they finally came. One of the most boring and money eating slot Ive seen.

And Red Tiger could be tight as hell sometimes and Im scared of them...sometimed you think the specal feature will start but it dont..and sometimes 10 times in a row...btw you know what Red Tiger slot that have the hight possible win x bet?

There's nothing I can really say to this... you've decided it's rigged from watching a YouTube video? Hahaha...

Btw... was it the retail version you watched.. if so that wasn't mine. I did the online version... but it's funny that you can accuse someone of rigging their own machine just by watching a YouTube video. Kind of makes you look a little silly to be honest...

Anyway it's not rigged. I'll explain the maths at the Meister Meet if you're there.

 

[trancemonkey]

I Think we use the word rigged or should I say take it in the wrong context when we relate it to slots not being random.What we should say is programmed.Rigged conjures up the image that it is fixed for you not to win that's not true because some of us win and others lose.Programmed means the outcome of the spin has been influenced by what's written in the programme and the outcome can only be within the parameters of the programme.That in itself in my opinion means it is not truly random but its the programmers job to make it appear as close as possible.The difference is that irrespective of what's in the programme we all have the same chance and the same things can happen to everyone.

You're getting closer to the truth...it's took a while. Now we just to get you away from this "programmers influence spins" rubbish and you're there!

 

[trancemonkey]

Just another question(apologies if this has been asked a million times)but what happened to the days when a win meant "win".Go back to the 1 Armed bandits at 1p a spin.Cherry on 1st reel smallest win at 2p but it was a win.Nowadays there are so many slots where 3 tens,jacks or whatever pay half your stake that's not a win.What I am thinking is there must be a reason because what game developer would put that in knowing it annoys the hell out the customers unless it was necessary(I accept it in games where multipliers are involved).Do they do it to make up part of the rtp with no risk.I mean hypathetically if you spin 3 jacks every spin at £1 a go and it returns 50p you have a 50%rtp but the player can never be ahead.Obviously nobody would play the game but given the fact that over a session we hit so many of them and they count towards the rtp seems a bit wrong because they are not "wins".

Actually this is something I don't like either and I try pretty hard to remove wins of less than bet, although it's not always possible to do this as the games are RANDOM and therefore I can't remove them if they are available. We can however reduce them.

The other thing I want to do is remove the word WIN if the prize is less than bet and use the word AWARD.

 

[trancemonkey]

Yeah that's just unbelievable it's never morally right that you should be able to wager that amount on 1 spin.Never mind validating your account casinos should be asking to validate where you get that kind of money from.

Funny isn't it... the UKGC are looking at reducing the bet on B2 machines to 2 quid. But online... no such concerns. Bet as much as you want...

Crazy

 

[trancemonkey]

Ok, checked this slot on youtube...I guy got alot of deadspins here and just put in more and more and ofcorase on almsort last pin he hit the bonus...which was one spin. And when he gambled with his win sometimes he often got busted on black field when it was very tiny...I have to say I cn say this slot is very rigged in many ways. Not random at all. And these questionmarks symbols was not random when they came only now and then but always on several reel when they finally came. One of the most boring and money eating slot Ive seen.

And Red Tiger could be tight as hell sometimes and Im scared of them...sometimed you think the specal feature will start but it dont..and sometimes 10 times in a row...btw you know what Red Tiger slot that have the hight possible win x bet?

Yeah you watched the video from stopnstep didn't you... I hated what they did to the retail version. Plays nothing like the online version... it doesn't even have the Shamrock Lock feature on it - they took it off. Crazy.

 

[trancemonkey]

Anyway... this thread is bad for my health Time to take a break from it... if I can! Lol

 

[interlog]

Funny isn't it... the UKGC are looking at reducing the bet on B2 machines to 2 quid. But online... no such concerns. Bet as much as you want...

Crazy

As crazy as the UKGC letting Netent getting away with the max button sitting ever so closely next to the spin button? How many have accidentally pressed it?

 

[Guntis]

Can you ask him if there are jobs available where he works please.

I don't think he has any work for you as his main income comes from casino affiliate links plus he has 7 or 8 sub affiliates who are also popular streamers in Russia.His income reaches from £50-100K a month as casinos pay him 50-70% of revenue share.All this sounds exciting but as he is real compulsive gambler 90% of this money he loses back to casino.In Russia streamers don't use casino bonuses it is unacceptable!Luckily he started to put money aside into his girlfriends bank account....

 

[Guntis]

Funny isn't it... the UKGC are looking at reducing the bet on B2 machines to 2 quid. But online... no such concerns. Bet as much as you want...

Crazy

Land based casinos in London already started to ask for proof of income as i had to bring in my payslips....

 

[Jd666]

Land based casinos in London already started to ask for proof of income as i had to bring in my payslips....

Really?

Im popping onto a Cashino arcade today.
Better take a bank statement

 

[Guntis]

Really?

Im popping onto a Cashino arcade today.
Better take a bank statement

Sometimes i do high rolling in roulette maybe that is why!Hippodrome and Grosvenor casinos are the ones who asked.As manager from Hippodrome said that he remembers the time when boys used to come to casino with bags of money and nobody ever give a fuck about it where that money comes from!But now time has changed and as government changed the rules...

 

[Tourettesguy]

Yeah you watched the video from stopnstep didn't you... I hated what they did to the retail version. Plays nothing like the online version... it doesn't even have the Shamrock Lock feature on it - they took it off. Crazy.

Yes I did. Ok then you may regret lauhghing at me for saying its rigged just by watching youtube? Sound like its "fake news" just because I watch soemthing on youtube...what I see on that clip is not the same I would see if Iwas standing there playing like that guy or what?
From just I few minutes I see many un-random events...and I dont think I would stops seeing those signs if I playied it my self and for hours/days/years..probably I would see more "strange" things that is too obvious to be just random.

Btw its strange the same game can be so corrupted and chopped up on retail and online version, you/or the software developers really allow that? Iike playing DoA without the free spin feature?

 

[Tourettesguy]

Anyway it's not rigged. I'll explain the maths at the Meister Meet if you're there.

As someone sayed about "rigged"...its programmed in a way its not random. Not that is its unfair on set average payout, Im sure its following the law set up by the licence giver... But the law dont see anything strange if you start with a €100 deposit...spinning €1 /spin and you hit a €1000 win on first spin...and then you do 999 zero payout spins...by law anfd payout rules nothing illegal is goin on here....lol you still have 100% payout whioch make the support chat tell you you have good payout atm.

Something in the math are making events that is too impossible to appear if it was 100% random time to time. Liek that video with Yggrasil, 3x3 block...and all these little bigger wins on the last spins.. Its more common a pretty dead slotsession or any session get little "crazy" when you reaching zero balance, Im 100% sure soemthign in the program is made to tease the player to keep playing.. Its rare you make 10 dead spins right into that brick wall...

Im working and cant come to that meeting.

 

[Bloatgoat]

From my opinion, slots do represent some small form of pre-programmed 'action' the moment you start playing. How many times did players in here had some action right after deposit, and crap down back to 0. Or when playing 100 ~ 200 back to 0 the only action that starts is when you get close to zero. That is certain pre-programmed and illusion to keep you playing. Or hitting a huge one right before you depleted your money. This randomness in slots is bullshit. It can never be random anyway when there's a RTP involved. The RTP is supposed to guarantee some payback percentage so how does this mix with random again? It interferes, hijacks the RNG if you may state it like this. Slots are not designed to make casino's loss, but generate profit. Now if trancemonkey designs a slot, yes there's the RNG on which the rheels are supposed to be based on. But how does the RTP exactly work on this one if the RNG is on top of that? It's simply hijacking the RNG to make sure it does what it's programmed todo.

Not wanting to infect this thread with anti- streamer rhetoric, but spinning £550 per spin is obscene by anyone's standards, and should not be encouraged via any medium.

Don't care if it's his money, his nan's or the state's, it's the kind of betting that's going to skew people's expectations if ever I saw it

There are some crazy High limiters on YT, i'll give you some links:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

And so on ... and from all i've seen watching them there's simply no glory in such high bets of 300 ~ 700 a spin.

There are however some really genuine video's on the net:



With blazing outcomes. The ones that triggered me at least to start playing high limit.

I don't think he has any work for you as his main income comes from casino affiliate links plus he has 7 or 8 sub affiliates who are also popular streamers in Russia.His income reaches from £50-100K a month as casinos pay him 50-70% of revenue share.All this sounds exciting but as he is real compulsive gambler 90% of this money he loses back to casino.In Russia streamers don't use casino bonuses it is unacceptable!Luckily he started to put money aside into his girlfriends bank account....

This. The guy looks very untended and reminds me of the people being in small casino's day in day out. He proberly lost any sense of money playing 550 a spin, geezus.

As for the many and too obvious dead spins, i think they are a feature as well.