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Slots Fairness Discussion (Cut from Other Thread)

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well it's always been public knowledge the reels are weighted. It's why everything on the payable doesn't pay the same return :)
less big wins more smaller wins

how does the weighted reels fit into the Randomness of the game,weigh down the dice to lose more but still random throw,man if youguys can just lookback at what you say lol.

anyway I with trance = outa here, good luck at everything youz do
 
Ok we are just going round in circles. We will have to agree to disagree. I know what the definition of random is within the way we have to use it. I also know that random does not mean equally distributed. You're entitled to your opinion, however wrong it is :)

You're contradicting yourself in every post now. You accept the roll if the dice is random but because the outcome is not evenly distributed the dice aren't random. Crazy.

I understand why you think that but it's just plain wrong.
Ok forget the throw of the dice that's immaterial(assuming the dice are not rigged obviously). We are only interested in the outcome(the total)To be random every total must have the same chance to start with..... Take 1 dice and roll it the outcome is random all 6 numbers had an equal chance..... Now take 2 dice and roll them.The difference is this time your life depends on it and you are allowed to pick 3 totals to save yourself.With your definition you would pick say 2,4 and 11 for example because every outcome is random.Given the situation I think you would reconsider and pick 6,7,and 8 because you would have a much higher chance of survival.
 
Everyone knows providers shorten players' RTP over the short-term under the pretext that they'll 'eventually claw it back over millions of spins' :p

No one in their lifetime is realistically going to churn out millions of spins- providers know this so gimp your RTP to the low 90s. It is known - just ask Trancemonkey :cool:
 
Yeah,

Basicly how it works: you should expect to last at least a 100 spins before winning something big, that is in the case of a game with high volatility. So for example if i'd deposit 200, and start playing with 2 a spin, it would be within the 100 spin mark to either get straight or get ahead.

That is all there is to it. But i've experienced too many times that it boots you back to where you started and makes you lose everything. This compared to landbased is where landbased serves me much better then online. There is genuine something fishy about online slots. It's just not the RTP but proberly the math's behind it. It's just crafted legal enough to get away with it i suppose.
 
Yeah,

Basicly how it works: you should expect to last at least a 100 spins before winning something big, that is in the case of a game with high volatility. So for example if i'd deposit 200, and start playing with 2 a spin, it would be within the 100 spin mark to either get straight or get ahead.

That is all there is to it. But i've experienced too many times that it boots you back to where you started and makes you lose everything. This compared to landbased is where landbased serves me much better then online. There is genuine something fishy about online slots. It's just not the RTP but proberly the math's behind it. It's just crafted legal enough to get away with it i suppose.
Betting shops are so similar not a chance they are anything but manipulated...............................This is how a bookmakers spreadsheet for profit/loss looks.The figures are not exact but you will get the gist of what I am saying.(daily) +2k + 3k + 1k + 1.5 k (-3k) +2k + 3k +2k + 5k (-7k) (-2k) +3k +4K + 2k + 4K (- 6k) +2k +3k +2k +4K and so on there is a definite pattern to how they take and how they payout.people go weeks without winning then 1 day every machine in the shop pays out it's like you say gauged to perfection as soon as the takings are going down boom hit that shop with a 125% rtp for the day and hey presto everybody's happy again.It is not the bookmakers who do this they merely haven't got a clue what's happening.Its the game providers who manipulate everything from the other end.There has always been something fishy about the fact that when FOBTS came out the law stated that the server had to be offshore.Why if all is fair and well would that be......................Another thing is that all these sites are audited but how in depth can the audits be.I know hundreds of people and I don't know anyone who has this kind of job.I am not saying they don't exist but given the amount of sites there are and how many games there are at each that's a lot of auditing which tells me they just do random selections and let's face it in days gone by if you knew the V.A.T man was due you got the books in order.Lets face it Sportsmen and woman,Politicians.Police,Celebraties they all earn a decent amount of money.Are they all squeaky clean NO.Do you think they all get caught out NO.But we sit here at home without a clue as to what really goes on behind closed doors and we are supposed to believe it's as close as you can get to a convent or a monastry(bad example I just remembered how corrupt they are lol).
 
We could be here a while
sleep.webp
 
Everyone knows providers shorten players' RTP over the short-term under the pretext that they'll 'eventually claw it back over millions of spins' :p

No one in their lifetime is realistically going to churn out millions of spins- providers know this so gimp your RTP to the low 90s. It is known - just ask Trancemonkey :cool:

Remind me why i didn't take you outside for a quiet word at the Meister Meet ;) hehe
 
Betting shops are so similar not a chance they are anything but manipulated...............................This is how a bookmakers spreadsheet for profit/loss looks.The figures are not exact but you will get the gist of what I am saying.(daily) +2k + 3k + 1k + 1.5 k (-3k) +2k + 3k +2k + 5k (-7k) (-2k) +3k +4K + 2k + 4K (- 6k) +2k +3k +2k +4K and so on there is a definite pattern to how they take and how they payout.people go weeks without winning then 1 day every machine in the shop pays out it's like you say gauged to perfection as soon as the takings are going down boom hit that shop with a 125% rtp for the day and hey presto everybody's happy again.It is not the bookmakers who do this they merely haven't got a clue what's happening.Its the game providers who manipulate everything from the other end.There has always been something fishy about the fact that when FOBTS came out the law stated that the server had to be offshore.Why if all is fair and well would that be......................Another thing is that all these sites are audited but how in depth can the audits be.I know hundreds of people and I don't know anyone who has this kind of job.I am not saying they don't exist but given the amount of sites there are and how many games there are at each that's a lot of auditing which tells me they just do random selections and let's face it in days gone by if you knew the V.A.T man was due you got the books in order.Lets face it Sportsmen and woman,Politicians.Police,Celebraties they all earn a decent amount of money.Are they all squeaky clean NO.Do you think they all get caught out NO.But we sit here at home without a clue as to what really goes on behind closed doors and we are supposed to believe it's as close as you can get to a convent or a monastry(bad example I just remembered how corrupt they are lol).

You know hundreds of people, and you don't know anyone that audits gambling companies... so ergo it's rigged? I've been laughing at that comment since i left Euston about ten minutes ago! Hahahah.

Tell you what snorky - you believe what you want. You wouldn't believe someone had punched you in the face if someone filmed it, you had a black eye, and 10 doctors told you it was a medical fact.

Enjoy that tin-foil :)
 
We know volkswagen applied some sort of manipulation to bypass certain tests. We're talking about a 60+ billion euro market cap. Why woud'nt slot vendors come up with tricks as well to bypass some audits? It's a even bigger market cap.
 
You know hundreds of people, and you don't know anyone that audits gambling companies... so ergo it's rigged? I've been laughing at that comment since i left Euston about ten minutes ago! Hahahah.

Tell you what snorky - you believe what you want. You wouldn't believe someone had punched you in the face if someone filmed it, you had a black eye, and 10 doctors told you it was a medical fact.

Enjoy that tin-foil :)
You know hundreds of people, and you don't know anyone that audits gambling companies... so ergo it's rigged? I've been laughing at that comment since i left Euston about ten minutes ago! Hahahah.

Tell you what snorky - you believe what you want. You wouldn't believe someone had punched you in the face if someone filmed it, you had a black eye, and 10 doctors told you it was a medical fact.

Enjoy that tin-foil :)
I find it better than having rose tinted glasses.A few years back everyone was saying online poker wasn't rigged why would they need to that and so on.A lot of people think the other way now.
 
You know hundreds of people, and you don't know anyone that audits gambling companies... so ergo it's rigged? I've been laughing at that comment since i left Euston about ten minutes ago! Hahahah.

Tell you what snorky - you believe what you want. You wouldn't believe someone had punched you in the face if someone filmed it, you had a black eye, and 10 doctors told you it was a medical fact.

Enjoy that tin-foil :)

That comment did amuse me as well. How can you argue against logic like that? ;-)

I think the process people go through mentally when trying to make sense of slots is similar to a break-up.....you know...the seven stages thing. Here is what google shows: -

1. Desperate for Answers

How the fudge did I lose all this money on this stupid game? How can I be this unlucky?

2. Denial

There is no way I was that unlucky. They must have rigged the game against me.

3. Bargaining

OK they are pseudo random I'll give you that...but admit to me that they are rigged.

4. Relapse

Shit. I just lost a stack of cash just like before.

5. Anger

Arghhhhhhh. I've been robbed again.

6. Initial Acceptance

Yeah maybe that is how they work....perhaps the saying that they always have the edge has something about it.

7. Acceptance

Yeah OK you got me. That 97% RTP thing means I'll always lose over the long term with no need to rig it. Right. Got it. This gambling lark is $hit.


 
That comment did amuse me as well. How can you argue against logic like that? ;-)



I think the process people go through mentally when trying to make sense of slots is similar to a break-up.....you know...the seven stages thing. Here is what google shows: -

1. Desperate for Answers

How the fudge did I lose all this money on this stupid game? How can I be this unlucky?

2. Denial

There is no way I was that unlucky. They must have rigged the game against me.

3. Bargaining

OK they are pseudo random I'll give you that...but admit to me that they are rigged.

4. Relapse

Shit. I just lost a stack of cash just like before.

5. Anger

Arghhhhhhh. I've been robbed again.

6. Initial Acceptance

Yeah maybe that is how they work....perhaps the saying that they always have the edge has something about it.

7. Acceptance

Yeah OK you got me. That 97% RTP thing means I'll always lose over the long term with no need to rig it. Right. Got it. This gambling lark is $hit.

Sounds a lot like my relationship. There are some things that are rigged no matter how much I ask for them. And this is with thousands spent over many years :mad:
 
That comment did amuse me as well. How can you argue against logic like that? ;-)

I think the process people go through mentally when trying to make sense of slots is similar to a break-up.....you know...the seven stages thing. Here is what google shows: -

1. Desperate for Answers

How the fudge did I lose all this money on this stupid game? How can I be this unlucky?

2. Denial

There is no way I was that unlucky. They must have rigged the game against me.

3. Bargaining

OK they are pseudo random I'll give you that...but admit to me that they are rigged.

4. Relapse

Shit. I just lost a stack of cash just like before.

5. Anger

Arghhhhhhh. I've been robbed again.

6. Initial Acceptance

Yeah maybe that is how they work....perhaps the saying that they always have the edge has something about it.

7. Acceptance

Yeah OK you got me. That 97% RTP thing means I'll always lose over the long term with no need to rig it. Right. Got it. This gambling lark is $hit.
If you and TM bothered to read posts properly and and not just glance at them and dive straight in you would see that I merely stated a fact that I don't know any personally and immediately afterwards said that doesn't mean they don't exist.I did not say I don't know any so that means slots are rigged.
 
If you and TM bothered to read posts properly and and not just glance at them and dive straight in you would see that I merely stated a fact that I don't know any personally and immediately afterwards said that doesn't mean they don't exist.I did not say I don't know any so that means slots are rigged.

Oh I read it properly... And even with the caveat the notion of it alone is laughable.

Put it like this. You know me. I work for one of the biggest slot companies in the world. I know the maths. I know the code. I know the rules and regulations. I know that our games are legit.

But you don't believe me so why would it matter if you knew someone who audited them. You wouldn't believe them either.

We should have a beer one day and a proper chat. See if I can make you see the light ;)
 
Oh I read it properly... And even with the caveat the notion of it alone is laughable.

Put it like this. You know me. I work for one of the biggest slot companies in the world. I know the maths. I know the code. I know the rules and regulations. I know that our games are legit.

But you don't believe me so why would it matter if you knew someone who audited them. You wouldn't believe them either.

We should have a beer one day and a proper chat. See if I can make you see the light ;)
I was glad to catch a glimpse of you at least, incidentally :cool:

I will make it my mission to home in on you, beer in one hand, somewhat staggering after four shandys and my speech a tad slurry, to finally ask those questions about slot riggedness, mano a mano, at the next MM:laugh:
 
You know hundreds of people, and you don't know anyone that audits gambling companies... so ergo it's rigged? I've been laughing at that comment since i left Euston about ten minutes ago! Hahahah.

Tell you what snorky - you believe what you want. You wouldn't believe someone had punched you in the face if someone filmed it, you had a black eye, and 10 doctors told you it was a medical fact.

Enjoy that tin-foil :)
And what doctors might these be Josef Mengele,John Bodkin Adams.John Christie or Harold Shipman perhaps.No I would definitely need a second opinion.
 
And what doctors might these be Josef Mengele,John Bodkin Adams.John Christie or Harold Shipman perhaps.No I would definitely need a second opinion.

Dr Who, Dr Zhivago and Dr Doctor ;)
 
Dr Who, Dr Zhivago and Dr Doctor ;)
Yes mine all existed yours are fictitious but never mind that........Different question.Given the house has the edge and with so many customers obviously they make substantial amounts of money.Why then do you get so many rogue casinos when they don't need to break rules to make money?
 
Yes mine all existed yours are fictitious but never mind that........Different question.Given the house has the edge and with so many customers obviously they make substantial amounts of money.Why then do you get so many rogue casinos when they don't need to break rules to make money?

I think the simple answer here is that you where money is concerned there will always be people wanting to rip you off and make more.

Running a legitimate casino isn’t cheap... I can’t defend every provider or every casino... I’m sure there are those out there that are dodgy as hell.

What I will defend are those of us (companies) that do it by the book and still get accused of being rogue / rigged
 
I think the simple answer here is that you where money is concerned there will always be people wanting to rip you off and make more.

Running a legitimate casino isn’t cheap... I can’t defend every provider or every casino... I’m sure there are those out there that are dodgy as hell.

What I will defend are those of us (companies) that do it by the book and still get accused of being rogue / rigged
Yes that could be where a lot of misconception comes from because there are a lot of shady casinos out there and it becomes a difficult task to sort the good from the bad.How though are the rogue ones still allowed to trade?
 
there are a lot of shady casinos out there and it becomes a difficult task to sort the good from the bad.

thankfully we know CM has our backs :)
unless it's been cm vetted and I read the reviews here I won't play there
 
Review websites are bullshit. They are biased and wont let users post crucial info in the first place. This is how i got here. Google these days is spammed with so called unbiased review ending up in a dozen of refferal links. There only interest is to get as much as poeple aboard and make them money.

Becoming a affilate as well is also something apart. I got signed up to a program which offered 40 up to 60% upon players deposit. So if i'd reffer any of you, you deposit and lose a 100$, 60$ of that is mine. I really wonder why in the hell that affiliate comission would be so high in returns of RTP and all that.

I'm not spamming links in here but i could prove to you that even up to 70% (!) is possible. So how does that correlate with eachother and high rtp's? It's ALL IN THE MATH! Rogue online shit.

They have a horden of new users every day coming in falling for the same shit.
 
Review websites are bullshit. They are biased and wont let users post crucial info in the first place. This is how i got here. Google these days is spammed with so called unbiased review ending up in a dozen of refferal links. There only interest is to get as much as poeple aboard and make them money.

Becoming a affilate as well is also something apart. I got signed up to a program which offered 40 up to 60% upon players deposit. So if i'd reffer any of you, you deposit and lose a 100$, 60$ of that is mine. I really wonder why in the hell that affiliate comission would be so high in returns of RTP and all that.

I'm not spamming links in here but i could prove to you that even up to 70% (!) is possible. So how does that correlate with eachother and high rtp's? It's ALL IN THE MATH! Rogue online shit.

They have a horden of new users every day coming in falling for the same shit.
Yeah you have to ask questions when things don't add up.
 
Review websites are bullshit. They are biased and wont let users post crucial info in the first place. This is how i got here. Google these days is spammed with so called unbiased review ending up in a dozen of refferal links. There only interest is to get as much as poeple aboard and make them money.

Becoming a affilate as well is also something apart. I got signed up to a program which offered 40 up to 60% upon players deposit. So if i'd reffer any of you, you deposit and lose a 100$, 60$ of that is mine. I really wonder why in the hell that affiliate comission would be so high in returns of RTP and all that.

I'm not spamming links in here but i could prove to you that even up to 70% (!) is possible. So how does that correlate with eachother and high rtp's? It's ALL IN THE MATH! Rogue online shit.

They have a horden of new users every day coming in falling for the same shit.

so the only goal here is to sign up players and the reviews are bs?
 
so the only goal here is to sign up players and the reviews are bs?

Makes you wonder why they are here at all if they don't believe the reviews and that CasinoMeister is as rigged as the dodgiest casinos...
 
There is a interesting video from the streamer letsgiveitaspin who had a session with Play and Go, Netent, Yggdrasil and BTG out on youtube now, good to see some of the developers talk about their games and answer some questions.

 
I just wonder one thing now...trancemonkey seem to have nothing to do with CM forum..but dionysus with MM (probably means he is some CM moderator) act like a wingman for TM constantly covering him.. Would a CM forum moderator ever question the fairness of online casino games? Would he disagree with TM if TM abviously are wrong in some esy or even by mistake? Have dionysus also never played slots online? :D I feel like TM= fake news and dinoysus =CNN
We others = deplorables
 
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There is a interesting video from the streamer letsgiveitaspin who had a session with Play and Go, Netent, Yggdrasil and BTG out on youtube now, good to see some of the developers talk about their games and answer some questions.




Is an interesting vid, also mentioned already, in i think the bonananzazazaara thread.
But in a somewhat similar thought with those that mentioned it in that thread, i didn't like the way the guy near the end kind of persisted that kimbo buy a rabbit feature.
After watching him not instantly agree, and then deposit more in order to do so, (at least to me..) the persistence come across as not far off from a lame attempt to further advertise the fact players can buy a bonus within that game... which is basically free advertising for any new degenerates coming into the online scene who might quickly get addicted to it and keep chasing the ultimate bonus round.
it just felt slimey to me... considering they guy who wanted the bonus to be bought at the end, wasn't even the one paying for it.
 
I just wonder one thing now...trancemonkey seem to have nothing to do with CM forum..but dionysus with MM (probably means he is some CM moderator) act like a wingman for TM constantly covering him.. Would a CM forum moderator ever question the fairness of online casino games? Would he disagree with TM if TM abviously are wrong in some esy or even by mistake? Have dionysus also never played slots online? :D I feel like TM= fake news and dinoysus =CNN
We others = deplorables
Dionysus is no moderator, let me assure you. Nor does he act as someone's wingman....it took me years to get just one 'like' (or 'thanks, back in the day) off him :D

He's just a gambler like the rest of us, who believes Trancemonkey's reasoning over the recurring tinfoil theories in this thread. There's like 42 pages of the same questions, including my own :oops:

I'm sure Dionysus doesn't agree with TM on everything either, we all have different experiences (yours included) :thumbsup:
 
They had a rocky relationship for a while despite fighting for the same team.
After one major battle, dionysus turned round to trance & said "you!....... you are still dangerous............ you can be my wingman anytime."
Trance took off his shades, smiled and said "bullshit........ you can be mine"

Been in it together ever since!
 
I just wonder one thing now...trancemonkey seem to have nothing to do with CM forum..but dionysus with MM (probably means he is some CM moderator) act like a wingman for TM constantly covering him.. Would a CM forum moderator ever question the fairness of online casino games? Would he disagree with TM if TM abviously are wrong in some esy or even by mistake? Have dionysus also never played slots online? :D I feel like TM= fake news and dinoysus =CNN
We others = deplorables

you can tell you're new or don't follow the forum. MM is for meister minion.. And as goat mentioned I'm just a player. Not trances wingman..he just happens to speak sense.
you should spend some.time familiarizing yourself with rhe site. you'll learn.a thing or 2.

and yes a moderator here WOULD call out dodgy software. that's why theres a rogue section..seriously you really should bother to find your way around here.

and moderators are players too
 
Is an interesting vid, also mentioned already, in i think the bonananzazazaara thread.
But in a somewhat similar thought with those that mentioned it in that thread, i didn't like the way the guy near the end kind of persisted that kimbo buy a rabbit feature.
After watching him not instantly agree, and then deposit more in order to do so, (at least to me..) the persistence come across as not far off from a lame attempt to further advertise the fact players can buy a bonus within that game... which is basically free advertising for any new degenerates coming into the online scene who might quickly get addicted to it and keep chasing the ultimate bonus round.
it just felt slimey to me... considering they guy who wanted the bonus to be bought at the end, wasn't even the one paying for it.

Interesting point.

Casino's need to continue digging on new players to ensure their long term profit. Hence why there is so much choice. And that from original gambling it shifted over to more entertainment (more bells, graphics and rings) to give you that satisfying feeling when gambling.

You should always take reviews of casino's wether on or offline with a grain of salt. Their profit is the potential leads created by refferal links. Look at the amount of advertising people get for mobile play. I.e free spins on your mobile daily and so on. It's not due to it's fun to press spin but purely to get paying players aboard.

Casino's and their marketing is pretty dangerous, for the vulnerable. I always turn any special promotion basicly off. I'd like to gamble when I feel like it. Not when they assume when my proverbial paycheck is coming in and use promotion for that to tickle me over.
 
Hmm, now you mention it, i wonder if that as time goes by, by giving away SOW including say a bankstatement/payslip that some casinos might go so far as to tailor promotional adverts around the time of the expected salary that the info they asked for has also given them the ability to do.
Maybe not but, just thinkin out loud.

As for marketing, still get some random casino on average once a week texting me about some crappy no deposit sign up offers :(
 
Hmm, now you mention it, i wonder if that as time goes by, by giving away SOW including say a bankstatement/payslip that some casinos might go so far as to tailor promotional adverts around the time of the expected salary that the info they asked for has also given them the ability to do.
Maybe not but, just thinkin out loud.

As for marketing, still get some random casino on average once a week texting me about some crappy no deposit sign up offers :(
Yes, that and with say a person of high income will have all manner of tailored VIP offers winging their way to them, because you know, you've just given them free reign to determine if you're worth retaining.

Meanwhile, the chattle and povvos with crap jobs will not only get nannied as to how much they're allowed to gamble, but will cease getting any sort of promos at all :cool:
 
Hmm, now you mention it, i wonder if that as time goes by, by giving away SOW including say a bankstatement/payslip that some casinos might go so far as to tailor promotional adverts around the time of the expected salary that the info they asked for has also given them the ability to do.
Maybe not but, just thinkin out loud.

As for marketing, still get some random casino on average once a week texting me about some crappy no deposit sign up offers :(

They dont have to.

They have data on ALL players which can be narrowed down on what the particular days are for salary / paychecks based on each country if they have to. Look at landbased, you can count on certain days even being monday when people's salary came in, or social benefits for that matter ...

I remember this very well how agressive some casino's went right before christmass sending out offers. Even in my business my clients are very aware when salary came down, and what the most important days are to step into advertising.
 
It's a step to far I think.Lets be honest it should be obvious to anyone who knows what they are looking for to spot an account being used to launder money.As for the "normal" account holders it's an invasion of your privacy.I mean people who drink don't have to have to prove they can afford a bottle of whiskey.Which reminds me I better go to bed before I fall over.
 
Big data, is key into any casino.

They could simply spawn in one mouse click which slots on avg do best and which slot do worse. Based on that info they swap out the bad games out and bring in the games that for example, will have a longer player time. It's no longer back in the days where people had to monitor slots which where played often or not. Everything (and esp online) is digitalised.

They dont have to read out your bankstatement in order to determine when you have money or not. The more you play the more it could be technically narrowed down on where you have your salary and where you wont have your salary. :) It's that simple.
 
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