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Slots Fairness Discussion (Cut from Other Thread)

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Guntis said:
I think many people just don't understand full meaning of what "random" means...Example of randomness is if i would meet on the street or bus my school mate from school 20 years ago.If situation like this would happen then it would happen only once and never again.As before this moment we never contacted each other and live in different countries.But in slots things repeat all the time so they can not be completely random!That my opinion,and i would only change it if i would see any proof of randomness....
Click to expand...
I Think we use the word rigged or should I say take it in the wrong context when we relate it to slots not being random.What we should say is programmed.Rigged conjures up the image that it is fixed for you not to win that's not true because some of us win and others lose.Programmed means the outcome of the spin has been influenced by what's written in the programme and the outcome can only be within the parameters of the programme.That in itself in my opinion means it is not truly random but its the programmers job to make it appear as close as possible.The difference is that irrespective of what's in the programme we all have the same chance and the same things can happen to everyone.
 
snorky510238 said:
I Think we use the word rigged or should I say take it in the wrong context when we relate it to slots not being random.What we should say is programmed.Rigged conjures up the image that it is fixed for you not to win that's not true because some of us win and others lose.Programmed means the outcome of the spin has been influenced by what's written in the programme and the outcome can only be within the parameters of the programme.That in itself in my opinion means it is not truly random but its the programmers job to make it appear as close as possible.The difference is that irrespective of what's in the programme we all have the same chance and the same things can happen to everyone.
Click to expand...
Why couldn't you have joined sooner eh? That summary could have spared us six years of tinfoil theories and rigged debate! :cool:
 
Guntis said:
I watch this guys streams almost regularly.He is online now spinning Foxin wins at £550 per spin No i did not see his viewers screens but i see very often what people recommend if he asks.It is based on their playing experience during that day on certain gaming provider.
Click to expand...

Can you ask him if there are jobs available where he works please.
 
Not wanting to infect this thread with anti- streamer rhetoric, but spinning £550 per spin is obscene by anyone's standards, and should not be encouraged via any medium.

Don't care if it's his money, his nan's or the state's, it's the kind of betting that's going to skew people's expectations if ever I saw it :cool:
 
Just another question(apologies if this has been asked a million times)but what happened to the days when a win meant "win".Go back to the 1 Armed bandits at 1p a spin.Cherry on 1st reel smallest win at 2p but it was a win.Nowadays there are so many slots where 3 tens,jacks or whatever pay half your stake that's not a win.What I am thinking is there must be a reason because what game developer would put that in knowing it annoys the hell out the customers unless it was necessary(I accept it in games where multipliers are involved).Do they do it to make up part of the rtp with no risk.I mean hypathetically if you spin 3 jacks every spin at £1 a go and it returns 50p you have a 50%rtp but the player can never be ahead.Obviously nobody would play the game but given the fact that over a session we hit so many of them and they count towards the rtp seems a bit wrong because they are not "wins".
 
I don't have the expertise in slots development to say with confidence slots are rigged/not rigged - I do often wonder though if slots are so random how all games I play can and do play at 50% RTP for a sustained period of time and we are talking months here. Random to me means that RTP can go up or down at any given time.
 
snorky510238 said:
Just another question(apologies if this has been asked a million times)but what happened to the days when a win meant "win".Go back to the 1 Armed bandits at 1p a spin.Cherry on 1st reel smallest win at 2p but it was a win.Nowadays there are so many slots where 3 tens,jacks or whatever pay half your stake that's not a win.What I am thinking is there must be a reason because what game developer would put that in knowing it annoys the hell out the customers unless it was necessary(I accept it in games where multipliers are involved).Do they do it to make up part of the rtp with no risk.I mean hypathetically if you spin 3 jacks every spin at £1 a go and it returns 50p you have a 50%rtp but the player can never be ahead.Obviously nobody would play the game but given the fact that over a session we hit so many of them and they count towards the rtp seems a bit wrong because they are not "wins".
Click to expand...
It's been explained far better by others but essentially it just boils down to slot psychology and duping you into believing you're constantly 'winning'. By far the worst has to be Bonanza for its 1x stake count-up, so in effect you end up believing that eg 24p is progress.

Just a tool to keep you playing, that is all :thumbsup:
 
goatwack said:
Not wanting to infect this thread with anti- streamer rhetoric, but spinning £550 per spin is obscene by anyone's standards, and should not be encouraged via any medium.

Don't care if it's his money, his nan's or the state's, it's the kind of betting that's going to skew people's expectations if ever I saw it :cool:
Click to expand...
Yeah that's just unbelievable it's never morally right that you should be able to wager that amount on 1 spin.Never mind validating your account casinos should be asking to validate where you get that kind of money from.
 
Tourettesguy said:
Ok, checked this slot on youtube...I guy got alot of deadspins here and just put in more and more and ofcorase on almsort last pin he hit the bonus...which was one spin. And when he gambled with his win sometimes he often got busted on black field when it was very tiny...I have to say I cn say this slot is very rigged in many ways. Not random at all. And these questionmarks symbols was not random when they came only now and then but always on several reel when they finally came. One of the most boring and money eating slot Ive seen.

And Red Tiger could be tight as hell sometimes and Im scared of them...sometimed you think the specal feature will start but it dont..and sometimes 10 times in a row...btw you know what Red Tiger slot that have the hight possible win x bet?
Click to expand...

There's nothing I can really say to this... you've decided it's rigged from watching a YouTube video? Hahaha...

Btw... was it the retail version you watched.. if so that wasn't mine. I did the online version... but it's funny that you can accuse someone of rigging their own machine just by watching a YouTube video. Kind of makes you look a little silly to be honest...

Anyway it's not rigged. I'll explain the maths at the Meister Meet if you're there. :)
 
snorky510238 said:
I Think we use the word rigged or should I say take it in the wrong context when we relate it to slots not being random.What we should say is programmed.Rigged conjures up the image that it is fixed for you not to win that's not true because some of us win and others lose.Programmed means the outcome of the spin has been influenced by what's written in the programme and the outcome can only be within the parameters of the programme.That in itself in my opinion means it is not truly random but its the programmers job to make it appear as close as possible.The difference is that irrespective of what's in the programme we all have the same chance and the same things can happen to everyone.
Click to expand...

You're getting closer to the truth...it's took a while. Now we just to get you away from this "programmers influence spins" rubbish and you're there!
 
snorky510238 said:
Just another question(apologies if this has been asked a million times)but what happened to the days when a win meant "win".Go back to the 1 Armed bandits at 1p a spin.Cherry on 1st reel smallest win at 2p but it was a win.Nowadays there are so many slots where 3 tens,jacks or whatever pay half your stake that's not a win.What I am thinking is there must be a reason because what game developer would put that in knowing it annoys the hell out the customers unless it was necessary(I accept it in games where multipliers are involved).Do they do it to make up part of the rtp with no risk.I mean hypathetically if you spin 3 jacks every spin at £1 a go and it returns 50p you have a 50%rtp but the player can never be ahead.Obviously nobody would play the game but given the fact that over a session we hit so many of them and they count towards the rtp seems a bit wrong because they are not "wins".
Click to expand...

Actually this is something I don't like either and I try pretty hard to remove wins of less than bet, although it's not always possible to do this as the games are RANDOM and therefore I can't remove them if they are available. We can however reduce them.

The other thing I want to do is remove the word WIN if the prize is less than bet and use the word AWARD.
 
snorky510238 said:
Yeah that's just unbelievable it's never morally right that you should be able to wager that amount on 1 spin.Never mind validating your account casinos should be asking to validate where you get that kind of money from.
Click to expand...

Funny isn't it... the UKGC are looking at reducing the bet on B2 machines to 2 quid. But online... no such concerns. Bet as much as you want...

Crazy
 
Tourettesguy said:
Ok, checked this slot on youtube...I guy got alot of deadspins here and just put in more and more and ofcorase on almsort last pin he hit the bonus...which was one spin. And when he gambled with his win sometimes he often got busted on black field when it was very tiny...I have to say I cn say this slot is very rigged in many ways. Not random at all. And these questionmarks symbols was not random when they came only now and then but always on several reel when they finally came. One of the most boring and money eating slot Ive seen.

And Red Tiger could be tight as hell sometimes and Im scared of them...sometimed you think the specal feature will start but it dont..and sometimes 10 times in a row...btw you know what Red Tiger slot that have the hight possible win x bet?
Click to expand...

Yeah you watched the video from stopnstep didn't you... I hated what they did to the retail version. Plays nothing like the online version... it doesn't even have the Shamrock Lock feature on it - they took it off. Crazy.
 
trancemonkey said:
Funny isn't it... the UKGC are looking at reducing the bet on B2 machines to 2 quid. But online... no such concerns. Bet as much as you want...

Crazy
Click to expand...

As crazy as the UKGC letting Netent getting away with the max button sitting ever so closely next to the spin button? How many have accidentally pressed it?
 
snorky510238 said:
Can you ask him if there are jobs available where he works please.
Click to expand...
I don't think he has any work for you as his main income comes from casino affiliate links plus he has 7 or 8 sub affiliates who are also popular streamers in Russia.His income reaches from £50-100K a month as casinos pay him 50-70% of revenue share.All this sounds exciting but as he is real compulsive gambler 90% of this money he loses back to casino.In Russia streamers don't use casino bonuses it is unacceptable!Luckily he started to put money aside into his girlfriends bank account....
 
JdRocks said:
Really?

Im popping onto a Cashino arcade today.
Better take a bank statement :eek2:
Click to expand...
Sometimes i do high rolling in roulette maybe that is why!Hippodrome and Grosvenor casinos are the ones who asked.As manager from Hippodrome said that he remembers the time when boys used to come to casino with bags of money and nobody ever give a fuck about it where that money comes from!But now time has changed and as government changed the rules...
 
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trancemonkey said:
Yeah you watched the video from stopnstep didn't you... I hated what they did to the retail version. Plays nothing like the online version... it doesn't even have the Shamrock Lock feature on it - they took it off. Crazy.
Click to expand...
Yes I did. Ok then you may regret lauhghing at me for saying its rigged just by watching youtube? Sound like its "fake news" just because I watch soemthing on youtube...what I see on that clip is not the same I would see if Iwas standing there playing like that guy or what?
From just I few minutes I see many un-random events...and I dont think I would stops seeing those signs if I playied it my self and for hours/days/years..probably I would see more "strange" things that is too obvious to be just random.

Btw its strange the same game can be so corrupted and chopped up on retail and online version, you/or the software developers really allow that? Iike playing DoA without the free spin feature?
 
trancemonkey said:
Anyway it's not rigged. I'll explain the maths at the Meister Meet if you're there. :)
Click to expand...

As someone sayed about "rigged"...its programmed in a way its not random. Not that is its unfair on set average payout, Im sure its following the law set up by the licence giver... But the law dont see anything strange if you start with a €100 deposit...spinning €1 /spin and you hit a €1000 win on first spin...and then you do 999 zero payout spins...by law anfd payout rules nothing illegal is goin on here....lol you still have 100% payout whioch make the support chat tell you you have good payout atm.

Something in the math are making events that is too impossible to appear if it was 100% random time to time. Liek that video with Yggrasil, 3x3 block...and all these little bigger wins on the last spins.. Its more common a pretty dead slotsession or any session get little "crazy" when you reaching zero balance, Im 100% sure soemthign in the program is made to tease the player to keep playing.. Its rare you make 10 dead spins right into that brick wall...

Im working and cant come to that meeting.
 
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From my opinion, slots do represent some small form of pre-programmed 'action' the moment you start playing. How many times did players in here had some action right after deposit, and crap down back to 0. Or when playing 100 ~ 200 back to 0 the only action that starts is when you get close to zero. That is certain pre-programmed and illusion to keep you playing. Or hitting a huge one right before you depleted your money. This randomness in slots is bullshit. It can never be random anyway when there's a RTP involved. The RTP is supposed to guarantee some payback percentage so how does this mix with random again? It interferes, hijacks the RNG if you may state it like this. Slots are not designed to make casino's loss, but generate profit. Now if trancemonkey designs a slot, yes there's the RNG on which the rheels are supposed to be based on. But how does the RTP exactly work on this one if the RNG is on top of that? It's simply hijacking the RNG to make sure it does what it's programmed todo.

goatwack said:
Not wanting to infect this thread with anti- streamer rhetoric, but spinning £550 per spin is obscene by anyone's standards, and should not be encouraged via any medium.

Don't care if it's his money, his nan's or the state's, it's the kind of betting that's going to skew people's expectations if ever I saw it :cool:
Click to expand...

There are some crazy High limiters on YT, i'll give you some links:
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


And so on ... and from all i've seen watching them there's simply no glory in such high bets of 300 ~ 700 a spin.

There are however some really genuine video's on the net:



With blazing outcomes. The ones that triggered me at least to start playing high limit.

Guntis said:
I don't think he has any work for you as his main income comes from casino affiliate links plus he has 7 or 8 sub affiliates who are also popular streamers in Russia.His income reaches from £50-100K a month as casinos pay him 50-70% of revenue share.All this sounds exciting but as he is real compulsive gambler 90% of this money he loses back to casino.In Russia streamers don't use casino bonuses it is unacceptable!Luckily he started to put money aside into his girlfriends bank account....
Click to expand...

This. The guy looks very untended and reminds me of the people being in small casino's day in day out. He proberly lost any sense of money playing 550 a spin, geezus.

As for the many and too obvious dead spins, i think they are a feature as well.
 
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trancemonkey said:
You're getting closer to the truth...it's took a while. Now we just to get you away from this "programmers influence spins" rubbish and you're there!
Click to expand...
Unfortunately I have leant towards your side of the fence as far as I can.If I come any closer I am going to creosote on my clothes!The fact that you programme these games means all possible outcomes are put there by you to attain the correct rtp.If the rtp is 95% your programme has to be different than if it was say 85% therefore you are influencing the outcome by reducing the win ratio.Also you can't blame people for thinking this way when you have games for instance that have scatters on reels 1,3 and5.(maybe 2 or 3 scatters per reel just an example)and the constant times 1 and 3 drop in but 5 is 1 up or 1 down.This happens far more often than the theoretical odds tell you it should.Therefore it's hard for us to believe there are no side shows occurring.
 
Tourettesguy said:
As someone sayed about "rigged"...its programmed in a way its not random. Not that is its unfair on set average payout, Im sure its following the law set up by the licence giver... But the law dont see anything strange if you start with a €100 deposit...spinning €1 /spin and you hit a €1000 win on first spin...and then you do 999 zero payout spins...by law anfd payout rules nothing illegal is goin on here....lol you still have 100% payout whioch make the support chat tell you you have good payout atm.

Something in the math are making events that is too impossible to appear if it was 100% random time to time. Liek that video with Yggrasil, 3x3 block...and all these little bigger wins on the last spins.. Its more common a pretty dead slotsession or any session get little "crazy" when you reaching zero balance, Im 100% sure soemthign in the program is made to tease the player to keep playing.. Its rare you make 10 dead spins right into that brick wall...

Im working and cant come to that meeting.
Click to expand...
You forgot to say about suddenly switching from low stake to high or otherway..........If you play slots you must remember when after doing it you get 3 scatters:))Slot are not my favorite game in casino but as much as played i remember how slot was acting when i was spinning it at high stake for about 30 min without bonus game and when money was about to run out i had to switch to 10 times lower bet and on first fucking spin i get bonus...hahh..ha
 
Guntis said:
You forgot to say about suddenly switching from low stake to high or otherway..........If you play slots you must remember when after doing it you get 3 scatters:))Slot are not my favorite game in casino but as much as played i remember how slot was acting when i was spinning it at high stake for about 30 min without bonus game and when money was about to run out i had to switch to 10 times lower bet and on first fucking spin i get bonus...hahh..ha
Click to expand...
Yes too many things like that occur to regularly for us to believe that something sinister isn't behind it.
 
You know how as kids you'd bicker with the other kid and say something like "Yes it was", and the reply would be "No it wasn't!", and how it would go on for absolute ages?

This thread is just like that :D
 
snorky510238 said:
Unfortunately I have leant towards your side of the fence as far as I can.If I come any closer I am going to creosote on my clothes!The fact that you programme these games means all possible outcomes are put there by you to attain the correct rtp.If the rtp is 95% your programme has to be different than if it was say 85% therefore you are influencing the outcome by reducing the win ratio.Also you can't blame people for thinking this way when you have games for instance that have scatters on reels 1,3 and5.(maybe 2 or 3 scatters per reel just an example)and the constant times 1 and 3 drop in but 5 is 1 up or 1 down.This happens far more often than the theoretical odds tell you it should.Therefore it's hard for us to believe there are no side shows occurring.
Click to expand...

Well, of course we have to change things on an 85% version compared to a 95% version - that's common sense. Hardly a sign it's rigged...
There are many ways to do it - pay less often, lower the paytable values, give free spins less, pay less from them, etc. etc
 
Is anybody interested to see admin panel of rigged online casino with Novomatic slots?
Video is bit old and not in english but you should get the point.
Video shows how many active players are online,amounts of their deposits,wins,loses,usernames,emails and e.t.c
Also it shows how simple is to adjust any game outcome for any player who is online.
In the end of video you will see how he adjusted Book of Ra to give out one bonus after other.Enjoy:)

P.S soon video will be removed!
 
trancemonkey said:
Well, of course we have to change things on an 85% version compared to a 95% version - that's common sense. Hardly a sign it's rigged...
There are many ways to do it - pay less often, lower the paytable values, give free spins less, pay less from them, etc. etc
Click to expand...
By your own words there you are admitting you can influence the result. When you say things like give free spins less.That means free spins are available and your job is to programme in how many times over a set amount of spins this should be awarded.If it was truly random there would be no set amount.You said there are various ways to lower the rtp.pay wins less often.give free spins less often.The amount of symbols on the reels hasn't increased so the permutations possible is the same but by your input telling it to pay less often etc you are influencing and therefore taking away true randomness.The mere fact a slot has a rtp percentage tells you it has been influenced/rigged/fixed/pre determined whatever we decide to call it otherwise the rtp would be unknown.
 
Videos like that I dont wanna see...but probably good to show addicts...takes away some of the joy playing I believe.

The random number generator may be random but as you say TM there are many ways to alter settings...and shown in the video above to interfer with the RNG... Im sure same kind of interfering built in programs in the software are forcing these "balance savers", free spins feature almost instantly after lowering bet from a looong deadspin round on higer bets and many more of these events that is too good/bad to be true for the game to be random. I wonder how the casinos or software providers "set" their system when the gambling controllers watching to renew their licence...and how they set it back when they leave the buliding...haha
 
I'll do a quickie.
Slots are random.....for a given value of random.
Look...take it down to the most basic of principles.
Theres a bag with 10 beans.
One is a red bean. 3 are blue beans. And 6 are white.
Reach in.
Is what you pull out random?. Yes.
Are the odds equal that you'll pull a red vs white bean? No.
Is it rigged? No.

Now change bag to slot machine outcomes, red beans to large wins, blue beans to small wins and white beans to losses.

Will you lose more often than not? Yes.
Could you win big? Sure. Does soneone need to stand behind you and keep changing rhe beans? No

Welcome to slots.
 
Guntis said:
Is anybody interested to see admin panel of rigged online casino with Novomatic slots?
Video is bit old and not in english but you should get the point.
Video shows how many active players are online,amounts of their deposits,wins,loses,usernames,emails and e.t.c
Also it shows how simple is to adjust any game outcome for any player who is online.
In the end of video you will see how he adjusted Book of Ra to give out one bonus after other.Enjoy:)

P.S soon video will be removed!
Click to expand...


This, and add the data gathered by a player and have AI adjust it automaticly and we have a winner.

If this even exists in novomatic, what do you think that will exist on gameserver providers?
 
dionysus said:
I'll do a quickie.
Slots are random.....for a given value of random.
Look...take it down to the most basic of principles.
Theres a bag with 10 beans.
One is a red bean. 3 are blue beans. And 6 are white.
Reach in.
Is what you pull out random?. Yes.
Are the odds equal that you'll pull a red vs white bean? No.
Is it rigged? No.

Now change bag to slot machine outcomes, red beans to large wins, blue beans to small wins and white beans to losses.

Will you lose more often than not? Yes.
Could you win big? Sure. Does soneone need to stand behind you and keep changing rhe beans? No

Welcome to slots.
Click to expand...
Dunno what bag you're using but mine's got 10 white beans in it :(
 
Mannn this slots reels are ridiculous. I counted 2 yellow boxes on the first two reels 412 times out of 500. Here is a short clip of how often it happens and this was actually not that often compared to prior.

Lazy pricks at MG!!!

NSFW

 
Must say TM has a hell of a lot more patience than me.

How he can take the time to keep explaining the same things to the same people daily beats me.

Trancemonkey give up lol you will never convince them.

They just have no idea about what Random actually means. Sooner they realize the random bit means the slot pays out a certain amount randomly and all the pictures on screen are eye candy the better. They do not realize that if once they spin its decided that that spin will pay 10x the bet then it does not matter how many stacked wilds there are if the spins not due to pay they will not land.

Think people think random means that since the spin is random all these wilds should be landing most spins and are in shock and think its rigged because they do not land.

Anyway think i will come back to this thread next year as will not have missed anything as no doubt the next 1000 pages will all be the same people stating how all slots are rigged .
 
Guntis said:
Is anybody interested to see admin panel of rigged online casino with Novomatic slots?
Video is bit old and not in english but you should get the point.
Video shows how many active players are online,amounts of their deposits,wins,loses,usernames,emails and e.t.c
Also it shows how simple is to adjust any game outcome for any player who is online.
In the end of video you will see how he adjusted Book of Ra to give out one bonus after other.Enjoy:)

P.S soon video will be removed!
Click to expand...

Ever heard about pirated/stolen software/games? If you really believe that what you saw is what you will find in a regulated casino then you should stop playing now.
Do a search in here for pirated games or Affpower and I think you will find some information.
 
dionysus said:
I'll do a quickie.
Slots are random.....for a given value of random.
Look...take it down to the most basic of principles.
Theres a bag with 10 beans.
One is a red bean. 3 are blue beans. And 6 are white.
Reach in.
Is what you pull out random?. Yes.
Are the odds equal that you'll pull a red vs white bean? No.
Is it rigged? No.

Now change bag to slot machine outcomes, red beans to large wins, blue beans to small wins and white beans to losses.

Will you lose more often than not? Yes.
Could you win big? Sure. Does soneone need to stand behind you and keep changing rhe beans? No

Welcome to slots.
Click to expand...
I understand what you are saying but in my opinion to be random every outcome has to have the same chance of occurring in the 1st place.Would the lottery be considered random if there were 10 balls with number 1 on them and only 1 ball for every other number.The way you are looking at it the answer is yes but it's not as random as it could be because of the odds to start with.
 
BillyBonanza said:
Mannn this slots reels are ridiculous. I counted 2 yellow boxes on the first two reels 412 times out of 500. Here is a short clip of how often it happens and this was actually not that often compared to prior.

Lazy pricks at MG!!!

NSFW

Click to expand...

That fucking hilarious...They have no fucking shame programming...PErfect example of programmers never ever in their life even played a slot
 
Tourettesguy said:
Videos like that I dont wanna see...but probably good to show addicts...takes away some of the joy playing I believe.

The random number generator may be random but as you say TM there are many ways to alter settings...and shown in the video above to interfer with the RNG... Im sure same kind of interfering built in programs in the software are forcing these "balance savers", free spins feature almost instantly after lowering bet from a looong deadspin round on higer bets and many more of these events that is too good/bad to be true for the game to be random. I wonder how the casinos or software providers "set" their system when the gambling controllers watching to renew their licence...and how they set it back when they leave the buliding...haha
Click to expand...

Again tin foil hatters.
snorky510238 said:
I understand what you are saying but in my opinion to be random every outcome has to have the same chance of occurring in the 1st place.Would the lottery be considered random if there were 10 balls with number 1 on them and only 1 ball for every other number.The way you are looking at it the answer is yes but it's not as random as it could be because of the odds to start with.
Click to expand...
random.and odds are not synonymous is the point.
if one person buys two lottery tickets and you buy one is that lottery no longer andom just because that person has better odds?
Then lotteries must not be random in your example if random and odds are the same
 
paul7388 said:
Must say TM has a hell of a lot more patience than me.

How he can take the time to keep explaining the same things to the same people daily beats me.

Trancemonkey give up lol you will never convince them.

They just have no idea about what Random actually means. Sooner they realize the random bit means the slot pays out a certain amount randomly and all the pictures on screen are eye candy the better. They do not realize that if once they spin its decided that that spin will pay 10x the bet then it does not matter how many stacked wilds there are if the spins not due to pay they will not land.

Think people think random means that since the spin is random all these wilds should be landing most spins and are in shock and think its rigged because they do not land.

Anyway think i will come back to this thread next year as will not have missed anything as no doubt the next 1000 pages will all be the same people stating how all slots are rigged .
Click to expand...
with any luck Bryan will have forked the thread by then as it's simply the same tinfoil hatters.and same explanations being trotted out.
it's essentially 40 pages of a person sitting there eating crayons saying the sky is green and the grass is blue as the same doctor patiently sits and explains no no..put the crayon down Frederick...let me explain this again.
 
This thread should always remain, because of new players and that. Plus there's nothing wrong with a bit of letting off steam :D

Players lose thousands, they should have the right to question stuff....obviously TM doesn't feel like he has to convince everyone, all the time, because it'll never happen.

What would be good is if the thread could be marked where some answers have already been given in depth. That would stop the repetitive cycle :cool:
 
Come on TM, show us some screenshots of behind the scenes then... You gotta have some old stuff from your programming to show us. What is so secret when you come here and say we should ask you anything. Slots are fair and random so whats to hide?
Since there are no old programmer or whistleblower at all in the world that programmed wellknown slots at wellknows software...dont think there is anyone outhere willing to speak even if everything was 100% fair...so my question is. Do gambling software programmers have to sign some kind of document they will remain silent and if not they will have to pay millions in fine of face time in jail?
 
*Rolls eyes
probably because of something called a non disclosure agreement along with intellectual property rights.

what's most sad..it's not just trance having answered these Qs.
Over the years we've had reps managers owners and developers explain the same principles.
Then always it's a player with its rigged..rigged I tells ya.

and of course rhose players/people will go but ohhhh of course you (and you and you and you and you) would say that.

And despite those in those fields and in the know explaining patiently how things works it's met by someone who DOESN'T beyond well I THINK x and I'm going to find my confirmation bias..and it's that way..because of um.....um..pickles .

Never mind that NONE..not one disgruntled employee EVER has come forward whistle blowing.

But of course they'll never be convinced because utimately they don't want to be.

and the MOST laughable is those most convinced it's all hinky STILL continue to play
 
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dionysus said:
*Rolls eyes
probably because of something called a non disclosure agreement along with intellectual property rights.

what's most sad..it's not just trance having answered these Qs.
Over the years we've had reps managers owners and developers explain the same principles.
Then always it's a player with its rigged..rigged I tells ya.

and of course people will go but ohhhh of course you (and you and you and you and you) would say that.

And despite those in those fields and in the know explaining patiently how things works it's met by someone who DOESN'T beyond well I THINK x and I'm going to find my confirmation boas..and it's that way..because of um.....um..pickles .

But of course they'll never be convinced because utimately they don't want to be.

and the MOST laughable is those most convinced it's all hinky STILL continue to play
Click to expand...
You would say that.
 
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