Slots Fairness Discussion (Cut from Other Thread)

[snorky510238]

Certainly gets you thinking because at the point it gets to 100% to hit it you would assume you have a lot of players pressing spin at the same time so you still only have a 1 in however many thousand chance of winning it

 

[trancemonkey]

A question for all you non-believers...

What evidence would it take for you to believe that the slots you think are rigged are not?

 

[trancemonkey]

Certainly gets you thinking because at the point it gets to 100% to hit it you would assume you have a lot of players pressing spin at the same time so you still only have a 1 in however many thousand chance of winning it

Yup - at that point it would be "whoever pressed the button first" - but of course it would never wait until it reached the must hit by amount... or it would be very unlikely to,.,..
The timed one just guarantees traffic late at night...

 

[snorky510238]

God no - we don't want compensated fruit machines online...
UnionJackpots.com tried something like this (although of course they tried to do them randomly to remain legal) and they were dreadful...

This thread shows, unfortunately, that there is a lot of misconception, misbelief, misinformation, etc.. about how slots work. I've tried to explain it in the AMA thread, but of course some people will never believe me... but anyway, slots are mathematically balanced so that over time they will of course hit the RTP. The balance is in the law of large numbers...

Here's an example - around 1/3 of all the FOBT machines in Ladbrokes in the UK in any one day will make a loss. Some make huge losses. But the other 2/3's will either break even or make a profit. And because of the large number of games played, in any one day the overall RTP of all the games is pretty much smack on what it should be. And that's how it works.

Some of you, especially in this thread, won't ever believe me - that's fine... but please do one thing for me... If you ask a question or post a comment, at least have the decency to consider the answer rather than just dismiss it out of hand. Remember guys, i have 100% proof that all the slots i've made, and from all the providers i know personally, are not rigged. You guys just have "feelings" and "experiences" which is, i'm afraid to say, not the same as actually having done the maths for games!

When you say the overall rtp is pretty much smack on what % is this please

 

[snorky510238]

A question for all you non-believers...

What evidence would it take for you to believe that the slots you think are rigged are not?

A genuine copy of every casinos profit/loss spread sheet for 3 years buisness

 

[trancemonkey]

A genuine copy of every casinos profit/loss spread sheet for 3 years buisness

What would that prove? How in any way would that prove whether slots are rigged or not?! lol

 

[trancemonkey]

When you say the overall rtp is pretty much smack on what % is this please

Whatever they have the games set to - the joy of the UK is they HAVE to tell you the aiming RTP
Check the help pages / rules / info...

 

[interlog]

A question for all you non-believers...

What evidence would it take for you to believe that the slots you think are rigged are not?

Well the only real evidence is the one you can't supply, and that is how the math was done and how the reel strips look like.

 

[snorky510238]

So a game is created and programmed for arguments sake at 95% payout are you telling me that on any given day that % can't be altered so the game is paying out 90%

 

[snorky510238]

As for FOBTS if they only kept the 3% or whatever margin they are saying they do nowadays bookmakers would never have been interested bearing inmind they would have the suppliers cut to pay out of that.

 

[trancemonkey]

So a game is created and programmed for arguments sake at 95% payout are you telling me that on any given day that % can't be altered so the game is paying out 90%

No - i'm not telling you that... Games are supplied with multiple paytables.
For example, Play 'n' Go supply about 3 different paytables... I think IGT supply 3 as well ranging from 92% to 96%.
It is possible for the operator to change the RTP of a game to any one of the supplied paytables, BUT in the UK the help page / info page would say what the current aiming RTP is.
And to be honest, i can't imagine an online operator (at least a decent one) using the lowest RTP's. The market is very competitive...

 

[trancemonkey]

Well the only real evidence is the one you can't supply, and that is how the math was done and how the reel strips look like.

But honestly - even then you would get people saying i'd not shown the real ones... i'd only shown the ones i wanted them to see...
I'm in a lose lose situation whichever... there will always be the disbelievers and then there will be people who can listen to cogent arguments and form an opinion based on fact.

 

[trancemonkey]

Well the only real evidence is the one you can't supply, and that is how the math was done and how the reel strips look like.

Also, haven't people reverse engineered games like Thunderkick 2? And wasn't that proof it's not rigged?

 

[trancemonkey]

As for FOBTS if they only kept the 3% or whatever margin they are saying they do nowadays bookmakers would never have been interested bearing inmind they would have the suppliers cut to pay out of that.

God knows where you're getting 3% from - Roulette is 2.8% margin, but the slots run as low as 88% on low stakes....

And the suppliers get around 7% of that margin % (i.e Gross Win)...

 

[snorky510238]

I think those that wise up to what's going on and see its compensated behaviours abandon gambling, whilst the others continue trying to figure it out.

We're told it's random etc to keep us playing, and so we carry on, in the belief that nothing is amiss. I don't think players need millions of spins to sample a game's patterns- several hundred are more than adequate. Then you'll get those doing 1000s of spins and still not getting any results. How can this be, so consistently?

I'm also more and more of the belief that it has little to do with the casinos themselves, but the software's servers. It is where we get the information from, so it's strange not to think some of it is heading the other way and being stored. IPs are feverishly observed by casinos, why should it matter as much as they claim.

Of course for every lost player there'll be two to replace them. And with what, 400,000 kids now gambling in the UK the future looks quite bright for these companies and their shady practices

Thanks for taking time to read my for what it's worth post seems like we share the same sort of views on these topics.Going to be interesting to follow your posts I look forward to it.

 

[snorky510238]

Very good point. I made a similar point some time ago in a similar debate.

All I know over the years of playing is that if you're lucky enough to hit a big win, forget withdrawing anything for some time, anywhere. I know it's said that it's psychological and there may be a bit of that, but the fact is that it "appears" there there is some compensation going on.



I know you're a high roller. It's also clear to me from experience that if you hit a bonus on a high bet you'll be shafted. Gonzo is a case in point. I'm not such a high roller, but on £2.00 bets I get the free falls relatively regularly, sometimes 20 of them. On higher bets I've never hit 20 free falls. When I do hit the 10 on bets of £4.00 or above it regularly pays 5x or even less. The only time I hit 10 free falls on an £8.00 bet, 8 of them were dead spins and the outcome was 4x.

I'll say again that I don't believe slots are rigged as per the definition of the word, but the patterns that are reported are common to me and obviously other players. Even though my luck is certainly variable across casinos, I agree that it's down to the software servers.

Chris

I agree it's down to the servers same as high street bookmakers they don't control FOBTS it's the people at the other end doing all the manipulation and online casinos are not going to be any different.

 

[slotmaster]

No - i'm not telling you that... Games are supplied with multiple paytables.
For example, Play 'n' Go supply about 3 different paytables... I think IGT supply 3 as well ranging from 92% to 96%.
It is possible for the operator to change the RTP of a game to any one of the supplied paytables, BUT in the UK the help page / info page would say what the current aiming RTP is.
And to be honest, i can't imagine an online operator (at least a decent one) using the lowest RTP's. The market is very competitive...

Real Time Gaming also have 3 settings. Most use middle from what I have heard but I would not doubt some use the lowest.

 

[trancemonkey]

I agree it's down to the servers same as high street bookmakers they don't control FOBTS it's the people at the other end doing all the manipulation and online casinos are not going to be any different.

Snorky - with all due respect, if you think we rig the games against you, just stop playing. You're only ever going to be angry and disappointed...
Every time you lose it will be out fault... You'll never enjoy it because you'll be constantly worrying about when the SNORKY-SWITCH is activated...

I've just written some code for my new game actually... here it is:

if( all_providers_database.username == snorky510238 )
{
maths.aimingRTP.set( LOWEST_RTP );
}

if( all_providers_database.username == goatwack )
{
winThisGame.outcome = 0;
}

 

[trancemonkey]

Anyway - i'm taking a break from this thread... it's become completely pointless to try and have a discussion because you don't believe anything other than "it's all rigged and all the providers are working together against us"... Enjoy peeps!

 

[Bloatgoat]

That's what this thread is about, the discussion of fairness on online play. That's all.

I never took rigged into my postings as well, but as i said, landbased offer a better luck compared to online. And online has their tricks. It's all software. So technically it can be adjusted to according the wishes of the casino and so on.

 

[trancemonkey]

That's what this thread is about, the discussion of fairness on online play. That's all.

I never took rigged into my postings as well, but as i said, landbased offer a better luck compared to online. And online has their tricks. It's all software. So technically it can be adjusted to according the wishes of the casino and so on.

Online is at a much lower RTP than online - and if you're talking software, then online and retail (land-based casinos) are all operated by software. If you're right, then any game anywhere can be rigged against you... So really, you shouldn't play anywhere...

Ah shucks - you made me reply!

 

[snorky510238]

Snorky - with all due respect, if you think we rig the games against you, just stop playing. You're only ever going to be angry and disappointed...
Every time you lose it will be out fault... You'll never enjoy it because you'll be constantly worrying about when the SNORKY-SWITCH is activated...

I've just written some code for my new game actually... here it is:

if( all_providers_database.username == snorky510238 )
{
maths.aimingRTP.set( LOWEST_RTP );
}

if( all_providers_database.username == goatwack )
{
winThisGame.outcome = 0;
}

I am not moaning I am merely stating facts I am quite willing to play slots that pay out 95+%that means I have a decent chance of having some good days.What I need to be sure of is that the slot I am playing is paying that percentage every minute of everyday not being tampered with or holding a grudge because I hit big yesterday.there is never a time put on these percentages (as far as I know)is it based on 1 year 10 years 100 years.This makes it impossible to audit if at the time it's showing below its expected % payout wouldn't it be acceptable to say well in the long run it will balance up.The fact the long run may never end is of little consequence.(I also see from your code that you do know how to rig programmes not that you would ever use it of course)

 

[Bloatgoat]

Online is at a much lower RTP than online - and if you're talking software, then online and retail (land-based casinos) are all operated by software. If you're right, then any game anywhere can be rigged against you... So really, you shouldn't play anywhere...

Ah shucks - you made me reply!

What is it?

I am with above, @snorky510238 - very good point.

 

[TheAddict]

Its safe to say that he meant offline is at a much lower rtp than online.
As for holding a grudge to a players ip, this got me thinking. Maybe they fkng hate sky broadband players cause i was comfortably up on doa during 2 years of play while using BT. Switched to sky broadband about 6 weeks ago and haven't hit a wild line since! (Getting on for some 700 bonuses, a personal record tbh)

 

[slotter999]

LOL...youre kidding Ihope...what is the odds for a set of symbols landing in that postions 2 spins in a row??...1:10000000000000000000000000000000000000000 trillion? Its not one symbol...its 9!!..on a slot with 6 reels and lots of positions..
Not saying the game is rigged or unfair...Im ahead bigtime on Yggdrasil games several weeks back...but I wonder what in the software and RNG make this happen...its not first time. Something must not be random...lacy programming or something. Playing Yggdrasil slots I feel I get same outcome in long periods...like something goin in a loop and then for short time periods thangs happens...you see "new" combinatuions...and then back to the loop of same spins.

The odds of that happening are obviously nowhere near as long as you think. Trancemonkey can probably provide

Also, haven't people reverse engineered games like Thunderkick 2? And wasn't that proof it's not rigged?

Thunderstruck 2 was not reverse engineered as far as I know. The reel strips for thunderstruck one are out there but this alone cannot guarantee what you see is what you get because as you full well know there can be other functions in play that influence how those reels are used.

I don't have much sympathy for your exasperation at people not believing the fairness of games because the industry and its lack of transparency create the conditions to allow it to exist.

I, of course, understand why you might be resistant to fully disclosing how the slot works but you have to accept that without full disclosure there will always be doubt.

Let me put the question to you - suppose I hired you to prove the fairness of a new slot I'd written. What is the minimum amount of information you'd require from me in order to say with 100% fair and as described?

Oh and you never said why you don't think ygdrassil are 100% fair? That statement carries more weight coming from you so I'm genuinely interested in hearing your analysis and understanding your thought process.

 

[Sonict]

It is possible Tracemonkey meant that "Avalon 2" was reverse engineered in terms of reel strips since I remember seeing a post somewhere in the huge thread that he made.

 

[Tourettesguy]

The odds of that happening are obviously nowhere near as long as you think. Trancemonkey can probably provide

Well, looking through the hole video I see nothing like that...you find the same "block" elsewhere ever? There are soem "stacks" of 3 that fall almost beside themselfs but never 3x3 block and 2 spins in a row...and remeber this is first time Dunover play this...and the fact you all saw what I was talking about without notice what I ment proves in some way something IS not right, dont it?

If I was a programmer of a major gamling software, whould not wanna see this phenomena, its ofcorase not just a random event, somethign in the programming are causing this time to time, and that I would have prevented if I was a programmer. So lace programming is one factor here...but really wonder what is causing it. A glitch i communication or in memory soemwhere? A RNG would never give 2 spins in a row like that, something more than the RNG is influensing here, the second spins has "bonus" attached to it...would the second spin turn out that way if there was no bonus?

Lets see when this slot comes online how often this happens...

 

[aceking123]

I'll state i have a pet unicorn if you want - it's more truthful than 'slots are all rigged'...

You can believe whatever you want to believe - that's the joy of opinions... just because you're wrong doesn't make your opinion any less valid...
If you come to ICE you can see my new game - it's got progressives on it - and i guarantee you there is no pre-programmed number of spins before you will hit the jackpot.
They don't need a pre-determined number of spins because we work on averages - so we KNOW the jackpot will go on average every X number of spins and pay Y - it's pretty simple maths.

How often shall this x hit then ? on average ? also have you had anything to do with your new slot wishwood my oh my , this machine is hard , 15 chances to trigger whisperer choice didn't show , 6 chances of hitting the bonus did not hit , had all those berry things closed across top , left the game only to give it another bash , they had been all wiped from top ? is this supposed to be wiped when leaving the game ??

 

[snorky510238]

No - i'm not telling you that... Games are supplied with multiple paytables.
For example, Play 'n' Go supply about 3 different paytables... I think IGT supply 3 as well ranging from 92% to 96%.
It is possible for the operator to change the RTP of a game to any one of the supplied paytables, BUT in the UK the help page / info page would say what the current aiming RTP is.
And to be honest, i can't imagine an online operator (at least a decent one) using the lowest RTP's. The market is very competitive...

The mere fact they come with 3 paytables tells you something and why write the lowest one in if nobody uses it

 

[trancemonkey]

The odds of that happening are obviously nowhere near as long as you think. Trancemonkey can probably provide


Thunderstruck 2 was not reverse engineered as far as I know. The reel strips for thunderstruck one are out there but this alone cannot guarantee what you see is what you get because as you full well know there can be other functions in play that influence how those reels are used.

I don't have much sympathy for your exasperation at people not believing the fairness of games because the industry and its lack of transparency create the conditions to allow it to exist.

I, of course, understand why you might be resistant to fully disclosing how the slot works but you have to accept that without full disclosure there will always be doubt.

Let me put the question to you - suppose I hired you to prove the fairness of a new slot I'd written. What is the minimum amount of information you'd require from me in order to say with 100% fair and as described?

Oh and you never said why you don't think ygdrassil are 100% fair? That statement carries more weight coming from you so I'm genuinely interested in hearing your analysis and understanding your thought process.

Hey slotter999 - i understand about the transparency thing... there are a lot of bad eggs in this industry, and just because i'm here being as open and honest as i can be doesn't change that fact. We wouldn't have so many rogue casinos otherwise...

With regards to full disclosure - obviously i would be sacked and probably taken to court if i revealed our game maths - it's our main IP. I have given thought to how i could try and prove things to you, but to be honest i think those people that don't believe, still wouldn't believe... they'd just say i wasn't showing the maths that was being used in the actual game...

If you hired me to check it's fair, i would want to see the code - as GLI, BMM, NMI, and all other test houses do. Then i would want to run simulations of billions of games and run chi-square tests and other such mathematical tests against them to prove that they were random... (

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)

And with regards to Yggdrasil - i've seen data on VGB... and the data would seem to infer that they are doing something dodgy when you get close to completing the characters. It's not 100% statistical proof, but it's pretty interesting evidence.

 

[trancemonkey]

Well, looking through the hole video I see nothing like that...you find the same "block" elsewhere ever? There are soem "stacks" of 3 that fall almost beside themselfs but never 3x3 block and 2 spins in a row...and remeber this is first time Dunover play this...and the fact you all saw what I was talking about without notice what I ment proves in some way something IS not right, dont it?

If I was a programmer of a major gamling software, whould not wanna see this phenomena, its ofcorase not just a random event, somethign in the programming are causing this time to time, and that I would have prevented if I was a programmer. So lace programming is one factor here...but really wonder what is causing it. A glitch i communication or in memory soemwhere? A RNG would never give 2 spins in a row like that, something more than the RNG is influensing here, the second spins has "bonus" attached to it...would the second spin turn out that way if there was no bonus?

Lets see when this slot comes online how often this happens...

Of course an RNG would do things like this - that's the whole point of it - it's RANDOM... it will do all sorts of weird shit! This post goes to show how little you understand about randomness....

 

[trancemonkey]

It is possible Tracemonkey meant that "Avalon 2" was reverse engineered in terms of reel strips since I remember seeing a post somewhere in the huge thread that he made.

I did! - Thanks for this!

 

[interlog]

Hey slotter999 - i understand about the transparency thing... there are a lot of bad eggs in this industry, and just because i'm here being as open and honest as i can be doesn't change that fact. We wouldn't have so many rogue casinos otherwise...

With regards to full disclosure - obviously i would be sacked and probably taken to court if i revealed our game maths - it's our main IP. I have given thought to how i could try and prove things to you, but to be honest i think those people that don't believe, still wouldn't believe... they'd just say i wasn't showing the maths that was being used in the actual game...

If you hired me to check it's fair, i would want to see the code - as GLI, BMM, NMI, and all other test houses do. Then i would want to run simulations of billions of games and run chi-square tests and other such mathematical tests against them to prove that they were random... (

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

)

And with regards to Yggdrasil - i've seen data on VGB... and the data would seem to infer that they are doing something dodgy when you get close to completing the characters. It's not 100% statistical proof, but it's pretty interesting evidence.

What is your opinion about the Big Time Gaming slot "White Rabbit" and particularly the bonus buy feature. The feature starts off with a certain number of mega ways and each time that I buy it, I found the lower the number of mega ways the more cup cakes you get. If you're lucky enough to start off with say 8,000+ mega ways the cup cakes appear to have gone on holiday.

This happens every time!

Surely if it is all random, this shouldn't happen? Me thinks the whole bonus round has been pre-programmed to give out what it needs to.

 

[trancemonkey]

How often shall this x hit then ? on average ? also have you had anything to do with your new slot wishwood my oh my , this machine is hard , 15 chances to trigger whisperer choice didn't show , 6 chances of hitting the bonus did not hit , had all those berry things closed across top , left the game only to give it another bash , they had been all wiped from top ? is this supposed to be wiped when leaving the game ??

I don't work in the online department for IGT - i haven't done online games for 12 months now... i'm focused on casino / VLT markets currently. So no, Wishwood is not mine... although i know the guys that have done it

How often a progressive hits is entirely dependent on how much the producer wants it to pay and how much RTP you want to put towards it...

If you have 5% of your RTP on a progressive, and you want it to pay €1,000 on average at €1 per spin, then it will go every 20,000 spins.

 

[trancemonkey]

What is your opinion about the Big Time Gaming slot "White Rabbit" and particularly the bonus buy feature. The feature starts off with a certain number of mega ways and each time that I buy it, I found the lower the number of mega ways the more cup cakes you get. If you're lucky enough to start off with say 8,000+ mega ways the cup cakes appear to have gone on holiday.

This happens every time!

Surely if it is all random, this shouldn't happen? Me thinks the whole bonus round has been pre-programmed to give out what it needs to.

I've played this quite a bit to understand the maths... especially of the bonus round.

The buy-a-bonus feature is hardly worth it to be honest - it is rarely interesting enough to purchase, so i just wait for it to get very low (which takes forever)...

I think when the feature starts, they obvious have a number of different variables:

1. How many symbols shown on a reel
2. Where the reel will stop

My guess is that you are more likely to start off with a lower number of symbols on the reel - because it locks that in once the cup lands and expands from that number. Therefore if you start with a lower number of symbols on the reel, it's harder to increase up to max and obviously harder to get a cup (less positions for it to land on)...

So you're probably right - although i don't think it's pre-programmed... it's just the way they have designed the maths...

 

[interlog]

I've played this quite a bit to understand the maths... especially of the bonus round.

The buy-a-bonus feature is hardly worth it to be honest - it is rarely interesting enough to purchase, so i just wait for it to get very low (which takes forever)...

I think when the feature starts, they obvious have a number of different variables:

1. How many symbols shown on a reel
2. Where the reel will stop

My guess is that you are more likely to start off with a lower number of symbols on the reel - because it locks that in once the cup lands and expands from that number. Therefore if you start with a lower number of symbols on the reel, it's harder to increase up to max and obviously harder to get a cup (less positions for it to land on)...

So you're probably right - although i don't think it's pre-programmed... it's just the way they have designed the maths...

Maths like - if reels show 11, don't give it a cupcake. If reels shows 5, there you go just to make you happy

 

[snorky510238]

If everything is random then like I posted the other day about the feature on butterfly staxx.3 scatters gives you 5 free spins you have 20 chrysalis tumbling down there are only 2 outcomes they stay as they are or they turn to butterflies the odds are 50/50 so on the first spin you should in the long run average 10 yet You continuously hit 1 or 2 and are extremely lucky to have hit 10 after the 3rd spin please explain how that is random

 

[slotter999]

Hey slotter999 - i understand about the transparency thing... there are a lot of bad eggs in this industry, and just because i'm here being as open and honest as i can be doesn't change that fact. We wouldn't have so many rogue casinos otherwise...

With regards to full disclosure - obviously i would be sacked and probably taken to court if i revealed our game maths - it's our main IP. I have given thought to how i could try and prove things to you, but to be honest i think those people that don't believe, still wouldn't believe... they'd just say i wasn't showing the maths that was being used in the actual game...

If you hired me to check it's fair, i would want to see the code - as GLI, BMM, NMI, and all other test houses do. Then i would want to run simulations of billions of games and run chi-square tests and other such mathematical tests against them to prove that they were random... (

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

)

And with regards to Yggdrasil - i've seen data on VGB... and the data would seem to infer that they are doing something dodgy when you get close to completing the characters. It's not 100% statistical proof, but it's pretty interesting evidence.

The comment about transparency isn't directed at you personally of course.

If you play back your answer to my question - then that's the answer to your question regarding what have you got to do to make people believe. But you can't do that so it's just a catch 22. I get of course but I don't like it.

As for the data you've seen on VGB - it would have to be pretty conclusive. If the pot build up was anything less than 100% random then that raises fairly serious questions : why isn't it compliant with UKGC standards and how did it get through testing?

Here is the relevant section of the RTS:-

RTS requirement 7A
Random number generation and game results must be ‘acceptably random’. Acceptably random
here means that it is possible to demonstrate to a high degree of confidence that the output of the
RNG, game, lottery and virtual event outcomes are random through, for example, statistical
analysis using generally accepted tests and methods of analysis. Adaptive behaviour (ie a
compensated game) is not permitted.

I suspect the real answer is that it's not compensated at all and is fair. Perhaps you've been here hanging here too long ;-)

 

[Tourettesguy]

Of course an RNG would do things like this - that's the whole point of it - it's RANDOM... it will do all sorts of weird shit! This post goes to show how little you understand about randomness....

Totally bullcrap tallking and you know it

 

[trancemonkey]

If everything is random then like I posted the other day about the feature on butterfly staxx.3 scatters gives you 5 free spins you have 20 chrysalis tumbling down there are only 2 outcomes they stay as they are or they turn to butterflies the odds are 50/50 so on the first spin you should in the long run average 10 yet You continuously hit 1 or 2 and are extremely lucky to have hit 10 after the 3rd spin please explain how that is random

Why do you think there are only 2 outcomes? And why do you think the odds are 50/50?

 

[trancemonkey]

Totally bullcrap tallking and you know it

You're entitled to your opinion

I'm glad you seem to know the truth better than i do, so i will leave you to answer all further questions in this thread. Thanks for the valuable input

 

[trancemonkey]

The comment about transparency isn't directed at you personally of course.

If you play back your answer to my question - then that's the answer to your question regarding what have you got to do to make people believe. But you can't do that so it's just a catch 22. I get of course but I don't like it.

As for the data you've seen on VGB - it would have to be pretty conclusive. If the pot build up was anything less than 100% random then that raises fairly serious questions : why isn't it compliant with UKGC standards and how did it get through testing?

Here is the relevant section of the RTS:-

RTS requirement 7A
Random number generation and game results must be ‘acceptably random’. Acceptably random
here means that it is possible to demonstrate to a high degree of confidence that the output of the
RNG, game, lottery and virtual event outcomes are random through, for example, statistical
analysis using generally accepted tests and methods of analysis. Adaptive behaviour (ie a
compensated game) is not permitted.

I suspect the real answer is that it's not compensated at all and is fair. Perhaps you've been here hanging here too long ;-)

I know the regulations - i have to
And yes, the VGB games feels like it adapts the game based on how many characters you have got.
I don't have enough proof to say categorically, but i've seen data from some people that suggests it is adapting the game.
I also know Yggdrasil have denied this.
What the truth is, we will probably never know...

 

[trancemonkey]

Maths like - if reels show 11, don't give it a cupcake. If reels shows 5, there you go just to make you happy

It's possible that they are using totally different reel strips for each reel depending on how many symbols are shown on the reel... this is entirely legal in most jurisdictions. This is because adaptive behaviour within a feature IS permitted, as long as the outcome is still randomly determined.

 

[interlog]

It's possible that they are using totally different reel strips for each reel depending on how many symbols are shown on the reel... this is entirely legal in most jurisdictions. This is because adaptive behaviour within a feature IS permitted, as long as the outcome is still randomly determined.

Well logic (yeah right) would tell you that the taller the reel, the more chance of a cup cake landing on it (more positions to land on). But the opposite appears to be the truth.

 

[trancemonkey]

Well logic (yeah right) would tell you that the taller the reel, the more chance of a cup cake landing on it (more positions to land on). But the opposite appears to be the truth.

Welcome to the world of slot mathematics! This is the kind of thing we have to balance all the time! Reality vs Expectations

 

[interlog]

Welcome to the world of slot mathematics! This is the kind of thing we have to balance all the time! Reality vs Expectations

You mean, welcome to the world that puts you off a slot forever

Somebody at BTG had their balancing act a little wrong here in my opinion. It is just so predictable that it becomes boring and a snore fest.

 

[snorky510238]

Have you played the game?

 

[snorky510238]

Why do you think there are only 2 outcomes? And why do you think the odds are 50/50?

Have you ever played the game?

 

[snorky510238]

Why do you think there are only 2 outcomes? And why do you think the odds are 50/50?

Tell me what other outcome there is

 

[trancemonkey]

You mean, welcome to the world that puts you off a slot forever

Somebody at BTG had their balancing act a little wrong here in my opinion. It is just so predictable that it becomes boring and a snore fest.

Well, a good mathematician and games producer would try and make sure that it wasn't as obvious as it might be... BUT sometimes it's inevitable due to the design of the game.
If it puts you off, then don't play it... I accept it, even though i admit it's annoying... but then i understand why it does it and why it HAS to do it...