RubyBet - Withdrawal confiscated due to 'irregular play'

AndyJ

Newbie member
PABnononaccred
Joined
Aug 17, 2021
Hi All,

Wondering if you wonderful people can offer some guidance or have ran into a similar issue before. Apologies for the long winded message to follow, I want to ensure I portray the story as clearly as possible.

So I signed up for an account at RubyBet exactly a week ago (22nd August) after seeing a couple of good reviews (although in hindsight, see alot more negative ones!). The process was slick and was set up in a matter of seconds. Upon sign-up I didn't take the option to utilise any bonus promotions. I then proceeded to make a deposit to the site of x (this is 4 figures + for reference). This was accepted again with no issues.

Being an avid Roulette player, I hit the tables and placed the whole balance (one bet), on red. This fortunately won and resulted in a double of my balance. As a final bet, the next spin I then placed half of my balance (my original stake), on two thirds (1-12 & 25-36). This also fortunately won. Both bets were placed on the same wheel in consecutive spins again for reference. I then proceeded to withdraw my winnings, as we all know, being in profit isn't the most regular occurrence! Later that day I tried to deposit a very small amount to have a play with. The deposit was accepted but my account was restricted so I withdrew straight back out.

As expected and has been the case with many other casinos, they required verification on that same day (22nd August), which I immediately sent. This included personal ID, proof of address and card details. This took a whole 3 and a half days to be approved but eventually was deemed verified. I was informed the support team would contact me when verified but this was something I had to chase. Although a stupidly long time for verification, this is in their T&C's and has to be accepted.

So when I was verified (on the 25th August), I spoke to the live chat team to check the status of my withdrawal, as this was left on the dreaded 'pending'. The live chat team kept stating this was being reviewed and would be contacted in due course. So, 4 days pass which takes us to this morning (29th August). I contacted the live chat and they mentioned I would receive communication within today with an update as to which I thought this was going to be a congratulations, your withdrawal will be with you on x. How I couldn't be further from the truth.

The email from their security division took the decision to seize my winnings and both of my deposits as they have deemed my play to be 'irregular' and 'manipulative'. A select statement from the email is as below;

"We note that your play strategy was systematically applied in a pattern meant to create an unfair advantage and such, obtain winnings that are not legitimate and such, any outcome resulting from accessing our services is being considered as null, and any profits voided".

First of all, this is ludicrous as a 50/50 bet and then a further 66% bet is far from systematic or offering an unfair advantage to RubyBet. Another snippet from my email is as below;

"Please note that these actions to undermine the casino’s simple rules and trespass into a restricted realm constitutes a severe infringement of our Terms and Conditions and it is within the player’s sole responsibility to ensure that the services are accessed in good faith, not with an abusive play pattern.

Considering the seriousness of the issue described, we ascertain that we must abide by the above-mentioned terms and proceed accordingly in revoking your winnings and refunding your deposits totalling £x".

I've wagered in the very same way with many other casinos and been both successful and not successful. Not once in either realm have any funds been seized for supposedly gaining an 'unfair advantage' on a wheel that is already against the player. Again to note, no bonus funds were used so I have therefore not manipulated anything of that nature. At all times I was playing with my own raw cash.

The casino has since blocked any access to the account so I'm unable to pick up my bet history or anything else that could incriminate their ludicrous statement.

Apologies for the long winded message but I'm still in a bit of shock. Would anybody from either a personal or another casino/bookmaker be able to offer some support or guidance on how to escalate and resolve this issue. This to me is completely insincere bordering on illegal activity and obviously will be pursuing this to get this resolved and taking this legally if required.

Really appreciate anybody in advance making it this far but even more so to offer some guidance or even better support on how to get this resolved. Any responses or DM's would be more than fantastic.

Thank you,
Andrew
 

maxd

PAB (Complaints) Manager
Staff member
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Location
Saltirelandia
Hello,

I've tweaked your thread title ever so slightly, for SEO purposes. Apologies for any inconvenience.

Regards,
Max Drayman
Forum Co-Moderator, Casinomeister.com
 

dunover

Unofficial T&C's Editor
Staff member
webmeister
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PABnononaccred
CAG
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the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
It's a wonder how these casinos get licensed. How any casino can accuse a player of manipulating random games with a house edge is beyond logic. As the old saying goes regarding roulette and a casino manager: "Show me the man with a 'system' and I'll send him a taxi..."

The term should read:

"Any player who actually understands odds and bets in such a way as to minimise their risk on games which actually favour us in the long run anyway, and ends up winning by chance shall not be paid any profits they make. This ensures that when the player loses, we win, and when the player wins we draw. This abusive strategy on our part shall be obfuscated at all times by accusing the 'winner' themself of abuse."
 

AndyJ

Newbie member
PABnononaccred
Joined
Aug 17, 2021
It's a wonder how these casinos get licensed. How any casino can accuse a player of manipulating random games with a house edge is beyond logic. As the old saying goes regarding roulette and a casino manager: "Show me the man with a 'system' and I'll send him a taxi..."

The term should read:

"Any player who actually understands odds and bets in such a way as to minimise their risk on games which actually favour us in the long run anyway, and ends up winning by chance shall not be paid any profits they make. This ensures that when the player loses, we win, and when the player wins we draw. This abusive strategy on our part shall be obfuscated at all times by accusing the 'winner' themself of abuse."
Appreciate your contribution here @dunover and this thread/experience with RubyBet echoes your username perfectly! I'm long in the tooth as a punter and thought I'd encountered most bizarre situations but this certainly takes things to a whole new level. My concern is who's partaking in the due diligence to provide these crooks with a licence? It's clear they are trying to abstain from any form of financial loss and quite frankly it's disgusting.

Echoing your statements around how I can have possibly 'manipulated' or gained an 'unfair advantage' on a game that has a clearly defined house edge that frankly I have no control over. Further more, a red or black wager is one of the most common and uneducated bet placements in the world of Roulette and third betting not far behind so how an organisation can deem these as 'irregular' bets is beyond any possible logic. As we all know, there is no system or scheme to beat the Roulette table, period, so their statement is inaccurate and therefore displaying fraudulence both against me as a user and against the truth of events. Restricting any access to my account also is hiding the reality of evidence and totally disregarding my rights as a fair punter.

Seeking a form of resolution or next step from the Forum. I can see many senior peers of the Forum have viewed this post so also keen to understand their stance. This atrocious display of negligence needs to be eradicated from the open market and I'm also concerned that other users are going to fall into this same trap.
 
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TheAddict

Ueber Meister
Joined
Jan 9, 2013
Location
Kent
Most people don't join a casino with the intent to fire 2 spins of their entire balance on a roulette table and leave if winning both.
While you did nothing wrong, if compared to other new customers who join , such play can be labled as irregular from their position, in comparison. So if they're a bunch of assholes, which seems to be the case, they probably figured that irregular play combined with winnning means they can vaguely point to that term, give you your money back and hope you just go away.
 

paul7388

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MM
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
Location
glasgow scotland
As no bonus involved i guess they should have paid you and closed your account.

Technically you broke no rules. Deposited, played, won and withdrew.

But from the other side i would say most casinos would find it an irregular style. New player signs up, deposits a 4 figure sum. Makes one spin with whole balance on a 50/50 chance. Then as it won plays the profit on a 66% chance which wins then withdraws straight away.

Also to say it is regular to be in profit so you withdrew. Fair enough if you had maybe deposited a hundred and played for a little while and withdrew after winning. But you deposited a four figure amount and risked losing whole amount in one bet. So would not think a 66% profit in 2 spins would mean that much to you.

Also not sure why if you do this regularly you would sign up to a new casino you know nothing about and deposit thousands for a 50/50 bet. Why not make the deposit at a casino that knows your style of play that you regularly use.
 

aceking123

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Location
uk
It could also be that you have not turned the deposit over enough, we've seen this sneaky term about, with that betting style it could raise aml flags as its a four figure deposit, unlikely though.

If that's your player strategy then I would suggest you using a old casino you've used long-term.

Also maybe it's saved you from being completely ripped off , what if you hit some 5 figure amount.

Clearly isn't right what they've done, but you could always PAB.

I've never heard of the casino. Just looked it's progress bet, I'm thinking we've heard this on here not so long ago, very similar thing, can't find the thread though
Yer term 3, although it seems to be applied to bonus funds, not sure a straight deposit would fall under that.

PAB against them.
 
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AndyJ

Newbie member
PABnononaccred
Joined
Aug 17, 2021
Most people don't join a casino with the intent to fire 2 spins of their entire balance on a roulette table and leave if winning both.
While you did nothing wrong, if compared to other new customers who join , such play can be labled as irregular from their position, in comparison. So if they're a bunch of assholes, which seems to be the case, they probably figured that irregular play combined with winnning means they can vaguely point to that term, give you your money back and hope you just go away.
Thank you for the response. You may be very correct that this may not seem 'normal state of play', but the provider in question are highlighting patterns of play which perceived to give me 'an unfair advantage' which as we know is false. If anything seemed questionable, you would imagine they would make contact with me and sift through any questions they have to feel comfortable that everything is above board. I know you're clearly not saying I'm in the wrong here, but I went to re-deposit later with a much smaller amount so was clear intention of continuing to play and avoiding the illustrious 'laundering'. As you can see by the lengthy post, I'm obviously not just going away which is why I'm seeking guidance on next steps as this behaviour is disgusting. This is a not an insignificant amount I'm owed, so they would be foolhardy to think as such.

Can I also add, the second bet on the two thirds was only half of my balance, not the entirety.
As no bonus involved i guess they should have paid you and closed your account.

Technically you broke no rules. Deposited, played, won and withdrew.

But from the other side i would say most casinos would find it an irregular style. New player signs up, deposits a 4 figure sum. Makes one spin with whole balance on a 50/50 chance. Then as it won plays the profit on a 66% chance which wins then withdraws straight away.

Also to say it is regular to be in profit so you withdrew. Fair enough if you had maybe deposited a hundred and played for a little while and withdrew after winning. But you deposited a four figure amount and risked losing whole amount in one bet. So would not think a 66% profit in 2 spins would mean that much to you.

Also not sure why if you do this regularly you would sign up to a new casino you know nothing about and deposit thousands for a 50/50 bet. Why not make the deposit at a casino that knows your style of play that you regularly use.
Also thanks Paul for your response. This was one of the reasons why I declared no bonus was enacted, as they couldn't simply hide behind this. It may not be a regular pattern but they are claiming the irregular betting pattern was used as an advantage which as we all know, is factually incorrect. As I've just highlighted above, if anything seemed 'questionable', they should have took the correct course of action and queried this with me. They would have tracked the money to it's source and realised that was all kosher. I'm sure this was something they were doing within the 4 day 'review period' or stall period as I would like to phrase it as. On the other hand, had I lost those bets, do you really think the provider would have reimbursed due to these so called 'irregular patterns'... I think we know the answer again to that.

As mentioned in my original post, I read a few good reviews about the site and of course as this is a free choice, there wasn't much more rationale than that. Hindsight is a wonderful thing of course but there was a level of confidence, if I won, I would be paid out as any customer would also think... I'm a user on BetVictor and other trusted sites and enjoy playing on those also. Sometimes I do like to use alternative sites and allow the relevant KYC and other checks to be undertaken so they are in the knowledge that I am a legit customer. It's farcical from them and they will not get away with this.

It could also be that you have not turned the deposit over enough, we've seen this sneaky term about, with that betting style it could raise aml flags as its a four figure deposit, unlikely though.

If that's your player strategy then I would suggest you using a old casino you've used long-term.

Also maybe it's saved you from being completely ripped off , what if you hit some 5 figure amount.

Clearly isn't right what they've done, but you could always PAB.

I've never heard of the casino. Just looked it's progress bet, I'm thinking we've heard this on here not so long ago, very similar thing, can't find the thread though
Appreciate your comments also Ace, thank you. There is no reference to turning over deposits and once again is not a term of reference they provided in their email so wouldn't be the source of the issue (although we know there is no source asides crippling jealousy of a customer winning). The 'old casino' I mentioned above I can also use. Although low 4 figures I don't deem an excessive amount but to others I know that does.

What have I been 'saved' from? What they have done is not correct, nor will that be true and final. They've lost fair and square and by saying I've manipulated a Roulette wheel to give me an advantage is a joke that should live on for the rest of time. The parent I have down as ProgressPlay for reference. If you're able to see a similar thread then would appreciate you bringing this to my attention.
 
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aceking123

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Location
uk
I dont think you've do anything wrong, I had a quick look at the terms, term 3 do have some oddly worded stuff but it seems bonus related.

With reference to you being saved, had you won more ie 5 figures, they would of used the same line but for a far bigger amount, like I said I'm damn sure this company had a complaint pretty much the same as yours.

Don't give up on it though because you've done nothing wrong, I would set with direct email & go from there.
 

AndyJ

Newbie member
PABnononaccred
Joined
Aug 17, 2021
I dont think you've do anything wrong, I had a quick look at the terms, term 3 do have some oddly worded stuff but it seems bonus related.

With reference to you being saved, had you won more ie 5 figures, they would of used the same line but for a far bigger amount, like I said I'm damn sure this company had a complaint pretty much the same as yours.

Don't give up on it though because you've done nothing wrong, I would set with direct email & go from there.
Thanks Ace. Agreed, the terms are a little 'odd', but besides these are bonus related which thankfully this doesn't fall into. I would be keen to understand if this similar complaint was resolved or not and how it went about resolution.

I have submitted a PAB and will seek further advice/guidance from that. If there needs to be the usual complaint procedure to then escalate to the GC then that will have to be done. They are licensed so this will hopefully allow me to not fall into the grey area of that. I don't understand a scenario which means they can possibly abstain from paying out. Refunding my original deposit is a guilt edged justification that they know they are in the wrong as I'm sure if I was doing something so unfair (which again is ludicrous), they would have just taken the lot.

Appreciate the support :)
 

paul7388

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Location
glasgow scotland
Thanks Ace. Agreed, the terms are a little 'odd', but besides these are bonus related which thankfully this doesn't fall into. I would be keen to understand if this similar complaint was resolved or not and how it went about resolution.

I have submitted a PAB and will seek further advice/guidance from that. If there needs to be the usual complaint procedure to then escalate to the GC then that will have to be done. They are licensed so this will hopefully allow me to not fall into the grey area of that. I don't understand a scenario which means they can possibly abstain from paying out. Refunding my original deposit is a guilt edged justification that they know they are in the wrong as I'm sure if I was doing something so unfair (which again is ludicrous), they would have just taken the lot.

Appreciate the support :)
Just for the record.

You said you have submitted a PAB so best not to post anything else in this thread or answer any replies from members.

As if you make any posts Max will probably bin the PAB.
 

L&L-Jan

Accredited Casino Representative
Joined
Jun 15, 2013
Location
Malta
Hey Jan,

It was live dealer roulette and it was through Evolution
It could be that their decision was based by opposite betting or irregular play report from Evolution.
 

aceking123

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Location
uk
It could be that their decision was based by opposite betting or irregular play report from Evolution.
What ?
How on earth could evolution class it as irregular play or opposite betting, its roulette a game of chance, irregular play would no doubt be 32 plus numbers covered & some people may well do it.

Hazard a guess but if that's what online so called live games are allowed to do, bye bye online gaming......
 

mightydegen

Newbie member
Joined
Dec 23, 2019
Location
Europe
If you haven't missed any details out around your play, go directly to IBAS with all the information you can possibly provide. If you had no active bonus, then there is no term that can cover your style of play. Hopefully this is a misunderstanding from Rubybet.
 

maxd

PAB (Complaints) Manager
Staff member
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Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
If you haven't missed any details out around your play, go directly to IBAS ...
You do know the OP has a PAB in progress, yes? Telling him to "go directly to IBAS" is telling him to violate the PAB Rules. Not appreciated.
OTOH he's perfectly free to go to IBAS or anywhere else once we've finished our work on the PAB.

- Max
 

maxd

PAB (Complaints) Manager
Staff member
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Location
Saltirelandia
Hey Jan,

It was live dealer roulette and it was through Evolution
@AndyJ , just a friendly reminder: posting about an active PAB issue is a violation of the PAB Rules and will likely kill your PAB. Your choice of course but them's the rules.
 

maxd

PAB (Complaints) Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
... Shouldn't this thread be removed now if a PAB is open? :)
That's not how PABs work. All we ask is that the OP NOT post about his PAB issue while we are working on it. The thread remains open and rest of you can have at it, as it should be I would think.
 
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Casinomeister

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That's not how PABs work. All we ask is that the OP NOT post about his PAB issue while we are working on it. The thread remains open and rest of you can have at it, as it should be I would think.
Yes - we're still allowed to have a chat about this. :D

Irregular play = player is trying to win money by betting how he wants. It's "irregular" for the casino since you are not betting like a chump and just watching your bankroll dwindle away. That's what the casino wants.

One test is to see if properly managed land based casinos allow this type of play - like in Vegas. And yes, card counting, playing like a weirdo or "irregular" is allowed. They might throw you out and ban you, but they are required under Nevada state law to honour your winnings. There is legal precedence for this.

But this is not a land based casino located in Nevada - it's a marketing firm using casino game software (or live dealers) from afar. Their actual casino experience is probably nil - how many of these folks have worked in a land based casino? I would guess zero.

So I will watch this PAB closely. In the meantime, here is the philosophy statement on advantage play (which needs a bit of updating).
Casinomeister’s Philosophy and Mission Statement
 

toms596

Full Member
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Mar 19, 2018
Location
Uk
Interesting how there isn't a system to prevent you placing these "irregular" bets in the first place. I'd imagine they wouldn't be forthcoming with refunding them if they lost but happy to use irregular play to avoid paying them out
 

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