RTG RTP Conspiracy (tin foil hat zone)

[tat00]

im not understanding of why they are able to have any tools at all for coupon players when it should be all equal odds wheather or not they have coupons.

should it?

 

[PenDragyn21]

This post sums it up. It would be a pointless box to put in what you are seeing.

BESIDES, you cannot see anything until AFTER the play has happened. This box is for setting up coupons. How do you know what your going to see with the coupons? It is not a logical function if you cannot do what the words say... and that is set house edge.

Simple so that you can have an estimate of how much a promotion is going to cost you. It may mean nothing just like historical stock prices or how well a mutual fund has performed over a given time period. Coupons are enticements. You can use them to try and steer players towards a certain game or away from it. If a casino's losing their shirt on a game, exclude it or weight it less. If players are having a bad run on a game, sweeten the deal by making more attractive coupons for it. (How many awesome BJ bonuses do you see vs how many slots only bonuses?)

PD

 

[Nifty29]

Oh for crying out loud. Did anybody actually READ the explanation that Bryan posted?

The "RTG house edge" figure is the house edge that the game is DESIGNED to achieve.

The "DEFAULT house edge" figure is the house edge that the game is ACTUALLY ACHIEVING which could be different for each casino and can be entered as such to assist the operator in creating the optimum terms for a coupon.

THE INPUT VALUES HAVE NO EFFECT ON THE GAMES I.E the expected house edge for blackjack will ALWAYS be the same but the ACTUAL HE will fluctuate.

This is EXACTLY what VWM, myself, and others alluded to earlier - the screenshot itself means NOTHING without an explanation of the functions. However, now that we HAVE such an explanation some members are just completely ignoring it and jumping on the "ahhhh we got 'em now" bandwagon armed with nothing more than a screenshot and the non-existent explanation of the OP who has conveniently disappeared once again.

If people REALLY believe that RTG operators can add extra cards to decks or change reel strips during bonus play, then they must, as a result, believe it is possible on a per-player basis AND be possible on other software platforms as well.....and the funniest part is that many of these people will play at RTG again and have continued to do so, regardless of the fact that they 'know' they're being cheated. Speaks volumes.

Where is this 'RJ personal win' switch? Or did 4 oaks source feel that wasnt worth including? Id have thought that would have been FAR more serious than shaving a few % off the games! The answer is of course that there is no screenshot because it DOESN'T EXIST (although those that insist it does just keep playing regardless...lol just lol)

It seems that we have yet another case of the facts not being allowed to get in the way of a good conspiracy theory.

I'm placing a call to BHP Billiton to suggest they increase their aluminium output as we could well be facing a foil shortage here in coming days.

 

[2btakn]

Hi all,

Here we go again with the tin hats.

What 4 of a kind is posting are screenshots of the backend of the coupon codes. This has nothing to do with the RTP with which some of you are mildly confused.

From an RTG operator concerning the screenshot referenced here:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/rtg-rtp-conspiracy-tin-foil-hat-zone.43528/



Further reference material about RTG's RTP has been repeated and regurgitated more times than you can shake a stick at. For further reading, please read the following threads.

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/rtg-and-rtp-the-official-word.38348/

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/rtg-software-backend-issues-rtp-etc.41825/

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/corrupt-online-gaming.40838/

It seems to me that a small handful of members keep bringing up the same issue instead of referring to the vast amount of reference material at hand. I would really appreciate a little bit of consideration when it comes making me repeat myself.

Further, if you wish to publish what is considered privileged information (like screenshots of someone's back-end), either you get permission to post this or post it on your own website and reference it from here. We have strict rules about this; you can refer to the FAQs and rules about posting privileged information. If we are requested to take it down - we take it down. That'll take the wind out of your sails pretty damn quick.

What is the last part about? Kinda seems like your upset he posted it. Just wondering.

 

[silcnlayc]

Nifty29
Oh for crying out loud. Did anybody actually READ the explanation that Bryan posted?

Back atcha Nifty! Lighten up, Of course we did sheesh, you think we are blind too?? Remember, you might have gotten lost cause you are now in the tin hat area...we got "separated" from the main discussion where I think you want to be. I mean geezes.. You should be in the main room where there is a so called "discussion" you can

Nifty29: I like to challenge peoples opinions and debate the issues.

with those that do not wear these purty hats...go on...move along...if you do not wear our kind of hat...you KNOW you are in the wrong room..I am actually finding this room kinda cozy..so please do not come here ranting all over the place trying to make us see your side of the moon...cause it don't exist to many of us...especially me...


.

 

[greasemonkey]

Oh for crying out loud. Did anybody actually READ the explanation that Bryan posted?

The "RTG house edge" figure is the house edge that the game is DESIGNED to achieve.

The "DEFAULT house edge" figure is the house edge that the game is ACTUALLY ACHIEVING which could be different for each casino and can be entered as such to assist the operator in creating the optimum terms for a coupon.

THE INPUT VALUES HAVE NO EFFECT ON THE GAMES I.E the expected house edge for blackjack will ALWAYS be the same but the ACTUAL HE will fluctuate.

This is EXACTLY what VWM, myself, and others alluded to earlier - the screenshot itself means NOTHING without an explanation of the functions. However, now that we HAVE such an explanation some members are just completely ignoring it and jumping on the "ahhhh we got 'em now" bandwagon armed with nothing more than a screenshot and the non-existent explanation of the OP who has conveniently disappeared once again.

If people REALLY believe that RTG operators can add extra cards to decks or change reel strips during bonus play, then they must, as a result, believe it is possible on a per-player basis AND be possible on other software platforms as well.....and the funniest part is that many of these people will play at RTG again and have continued to do so, regardless of the fact that they 'know' they're being cheated. Speaks volumes.

Where is this 'RJ personal win' switch? Or did 4 oaks source feel that wasnt worth including? Id have thought that would have been FAR more serious than shaving a few % off the games! The answer is of course that there is no screenshot because it DOESN'T EXIST (although those that insist it does just keep playing regardless...lol just lol)

It seems that we have yet another case of the facts not being allowed to get in the way of a good conspiracy theory.

I'm placing a call to BHP Billiton to suggest they increase their aluminium output as we could well be facing a foil shortage here in coming days.

You have valid points Nifty, that is not what is being said. I agree that if I take what Bryan said as gospel (as you do) then I would also be taking what he was TOLD as gospel. I still have questions. I don't ever just read what Bryan types and consider it a done deal, no more questions to ask. I have every reason to raise questons based on the screen shot. That doesn't mean Bryan is being called a liar or his integrity questioned. It means as a reasonable, thinking adult there are questions that could be raised. Have you never seen a post where Bryan was given bad info then passed it off here then found out differently later? Perhaps some of the questions being raised will reveal something else. Perhaps not. We are here to discuss ideas. Not suppress everyone of them we dont agree with, although that seems to be your main purpose.

 

[greasemonkey]

Simple so that you can have an estimate of how much a promotion is going to cost you. It may mean nothing just like historical stock prices or how well a mutual fund has performed over a given time period. Coupons are enticements. You can use them to try and steer players towards a certain game or away from it. If a casino's losing their shirt on a game, exclude it or weight it less. If players are having a bad run on a game, sweeten the deal by making more attractive coupons for it. (How many awesome BJ bonuses do you see vs how many slots only bonuses?)

PD

I totally undrstand what you mean, PenDragyn, What I am saying is that doesn't make sense.

Lets take a coin flip. Lets say that I was using this program and for some short term variance there were 72 heads and only 28 tails flipped in the last 100. I surely wouldn't type in the HE being 72% or 28%. That would give me bad info and change my likely outcome of the coupon. We all know it is a 50/50 proposition with 0 HE.

SO, if the goal is to PREDICT what kind of results you will have by setting a coupon then you certainly wouldn't put in past results of a KNOWN quantity. You know darn well what the HE of Red Dog is. Why would you possibly change those while making a coupon? It would create havoc if you were trying to predict the outcome of the offer made.

SO, while I understand the explanation, it doesn't make any logical sense to use it or have it... but I have not operated a casino before either. Still it leaves a big question.

 

[PenDragyn21]

Re-reading the posts, I noticed some of the posters find the presence of table games in the screenshot proves that the last set of boxes if for changing RTP. The more I thought about it though, the presence of the table games actually proves the opposite.
I'll try to be brief and nicer about why I think that than others.
Table game and VP players can know the (theoretical) house edge/rtp of the game before they sit down. It's because of the paytable. The paytable is usually there for all to see. Change the paytable, you change the house edge/rtp without touching the mechanics of the game (aka cheating). For Blackjack you change the number of decks and how the dealer always plays his hands. This is how the B&Ms do it. You don't need some super secret backend to do that. The online casinos can do this too. As I type I'm looking at 4 different paytables for three/tri card poker at 4 different casinos on two different software platforms. Each one of those makes for a different house edge/rtp.
Those boxes can't be for putting in any willy nilly RTP you want. Without a fixed SET of RTPs, the first typo or greedy operator who changes the RTP to 9 instead of 90 would have the players seeing things far more whacky then streaks or bad beats.

I'll stop right there or I'll go on forever about it.

PS The programmer side of me started to get a headache after a few minutes figuring out how I would make the visual display of a card game match any random RTP values input by the coupon creator and not have it look hinky. The lazy programmer side of me says don't change how the game plays just change how much you pay the player when they win that way it's less likely you'll break anything.

 

[NicolasJohnson]

Someone mentioned my name.

This thread is not about Bet Phoenix Casino. The company I represent.

This thread is about Real Time Gaming. A company I have nothing to do with anymore. As such, I'm not in a position to provide a reply for them.

On a personal note, I believe everything Brian said is spot on. I personally have never seen that screen (I had a lowly CS access, since my main function in the end is that of an affiliate manager) However, I do have an excel sheet with formulas that mimics what that page has, and is something I regularly use to check expected promotional loss.

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
Bet Phoenix Casino Affiliates Manager

 

[SlotsLover]

key question

If RTG operators were able to adjust the payouts for different bonuses and different players (i.e., fix the games), then why would any players be bonus barred or barred at all? The operators could just "flip the switch" on the advantage players.

 

[Nifty29]

Someone mentioned my name.

This thread is not about Bet Phoenix Casino. The company I represent.

This thread is about Real Time Gaming. A company I have nothing to do with anymore. As such, I'm not in a position to provide a reply for them.

On a personal note, I believe everything Brian said is spot on. I personally have never seen that screen (I had a lowly CS access, since my main function in the end is that of an affiliate manager) However, I do have an excel sheet with formulas that mimics what that page has, and is something I regularly use to check expected promotional loss.

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
Bet Phoenix Casino Affiliates Manager

Thank you for taking the time to further confirm the facts.

It's a shame you are mostly wasting your breath, with you being a part (or former part) of the conspiracy 'n all.......

Don't forget to collect your free foil hat on your way out

 

[Nifty29]

If RTG operators were able to adjust the payouts for different bonuses and different players (i.e., fix the games), then why would any players be bonus barred or barred at all? The operators could just "flip the switch" on the advantage players.

Exactly. Just increase all the house edges by 25% and sit back laughing.

A very sensible and logical argument, however it has been made clear that those kind of things are not welcome in this particular thread.

 

[nisosbar]

its time to think about a mass boycott of every licensee.

LOL, already essentially doing that.

 

[Casinomeister]

What is the last part about? Kinda seems like your upset he posted it. Just wondering.

I'm rarely ever upset.

What I am explaining is that posting screenshots of someone's back-end, (unless you have explicit permission), violates our forum rules:

1.4 - No posting of privileged information. Please remember to respect other's privacy. In the public forum, do not post real names, email addresses, or other personal identifiers that may be considered privileged information; to include company "trade secrets", screenshots of company information, etc. If these items are already publicly available, this shouldn't be a problem. But if these are from private correspondence, or from some user database, discretion is advised.

I don't think there is a software provider on the planet that would allow screenshots of their back-end to be displayed in public. It's not that they are trying to cover something up; it's about allowing their competitors access to what they consider "privileged information"; their competitors are taking notes. When you post these screenshots, expect them to disappear once we are contacted by the software provider.

Of course, if these screenshots provide evidence of a casino cheating then we'd let them stand - but they don't. Bottom line is if RTG wants them removed - they're gone.

 

[4 of a kind]

Whoever wrote that explanation for you Bryan, and since you obviously approve of it, I would assume it should be expected by all here to bow their heads to you, the Moses of online gaming as you carry yet another stone with the facts of this screen shot carved into it.

This alleged carved in stone explanation may be good enough for your disciples like Nitty, but anyone not blinded by your glowing appearance should realize that explanation makes no sense and would serve no purpose for any casino to utilize what so ever.

“These Values Will Appear For All New Coupons”

What the hell does viewing what the actual RTP is doing in real time and coming back to this page and entering that number into the default house edge box got to do with the price of fish since the coupons are already in the street?

The mathematical advantages or not of a coupon being offered are decided well before their put in the streets. Using Betfair for example it was obvious their mistake was made well before the coupon hit the streets. Since Betfair took a beating with that coupon offer was a sign that they were a site to be trusted for actual random and fair play. Unfortunately, they didn’t take their lumps and elected to steel the money back.

I also understand your livelihood is controlled by online gaming, and this site is your domain.

 

[chayton]

I skimmed through the other threads and I have a couple of thoughts - first, the screenshot didn't come from BetPhoenix in the first place, it originally came from someone who worked for Casino33, right?

So if the original screenshot came from Casino33, how does the OP know that BetPhoenix also had access to this superuser thingie? Did the person from Casino33 go to work for BetPhoenix? Or is it a different mole?

I never really played at either of these casinos, but I remember reading here that BetPhoenix was offering some pretty massive deposit bonuses, did Casino33 do the same? If so then the explanation that casinomeister quoted (from an RTG operator?):

To be honest it is not a tool we have ever used, as it is for the Casinos that offer the more 'creative large' bonus offers

would make total sense wouldn't it? For those casinos that were offering large bonuses and trying to not go broke doing it - it seems like a plausible explanation. Especially when you consider that if Casino33 was able to adjust their RTP to put more money in their pocket, how come they're not still around? And if BetPhoenix was able to fleece their players so well with this system, why would they switch to another software and throw it all away? It doesn't make sense, IMO.

And believe me, I'm no huge fan of RTG or any of the casinos these days. I haven't been able to get anywhere lately, but bottom line is: if I didn't think I was getting a fair game I wouldn't be playing.

 

[4 of a kind]

I skimmed through the other threads and I have a couple of thoughts - first, the screenshot didn't come from BetPhoenix in the first place, it originally came from someone who worked for Casino33, right?


That's just what you were told. This screen shot has nothing whats so ever to do with casino33 or casinojack.



but bottom line is: if I didn't think I was getting a fair game I wouldn't be playing.

I don't.

 

[gerilege]

I don't think there is a software provider on the planet that would allow screenshots of their back-end to be displayed in public.

I strongly and respectfully disagree on this conditional statement in its current, general way.
If your customers do not know your features, you can not sell a product effectively. If your customers know your features, you can expect that your competitors will also find it out soon, they are watching close enough anyway. If your competitors know it, the customers of your customers will also know it soon (assuming there is a real market race and not a syndication). Transparency creates trust. There are some cases where you can not disclose some stuff, but if we are talking about product features in general, if you have nothing to hide, why not show it upfront?

 

[Nifty29]

Whoever wrote that explanation for you Bryan, and since you obviously approve of it, I would assume it should be expected by all here to bow their heads to you, the Moses of online gaming as you carry yet another stone with the facts of this screen shot carved into it.

This alleged carved in stone explanation may be good enough for your disciples like Nitty, but anyone not blinded by your glowing appearance should realize that explanation makes no sense and would serve no purpose for any casino to utilize what so ever.

“These Values Will Appear For All New Coupons”

What the hell does viewing what the actual RTP is doing in real time and coming back to this page and entering that number into the default house edge box got to do with the price of fish since the coupons are already in the street?

The mathematical advantages or not of a coupon being offered are decided well before their put in the streets. Using Betfair for example it was obvious their mistake was made well before the coupon hit the streets. Since Betfair took a beating with that coupon offer was a sign that they were a site to be trusted for actual random and fair play. Unfortunately, they didn’t take their lumps and elected to steel the money back.

I also understand your livelihood is controlled by online gaming, and this site is your domain.

Now that your 'damning evidence' has been shown to be a dud (again), you resort to personal attacks on myself and your host. Nice.

I guess when you don't have any facts, its about all you have left.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go finish my Bryan Shrine before nightly worship begins, and I don't want to steel any more of your limelight.

Regards,

Nitty.

"There is no such thing as a system" Bryan 2:12-14

 

[Gremmyboy]

 

[Casinomeister]

Whoever wrote that explanation for you Bryan, and since you obviously approve of it, I would assume it should be expected by all here to bow their heads to you, the Moses of online gaming as you carry yet another stone with the facts of this screen shot carved into it.

You've pretty much proven to me that you don't have a clue what you're talking about. You used to make good informative/helpful posts way back when, but now you've become nothing but a troll. It's a shame really.

This alleged carved in stone explanation may be good enough for your disciples like Nitty, but anyone not blinded by your glowing appearance should realize that explanation makes no sense and would serve no purpose for any casino to utilize what so ever...

Ditto.

...
I also understand your livelihood is controlled by online gaming, and this site is your domain.

Ditto. <yawn>

30 day time out for being a troll.

Please come back with a better attitude. Thanks!

 

[baldidiot]

The explanation given for the screen, IMHO, is perfectly logical. Don't forget that just because blackjack is set up to have a house edge of 0.7%, that doesn't mean that this is the house edge that the casino will see.

If your casino is full of donks who are hitting with 20 then your edge will be much higher.

I get the impression that what this system could be used for is to created custom coupons for specific groups of players - eg: you want to offer said donk player a bonus to keep him happy but need to know how "loose" you can be with the bonus terms. Makes perfect sense.

Of course, the old mischievous side of me would like to point out that (if this is all correct) a player could play like a high rolling muppet until they got the right bonus and then clean up

(please note: I'm not in any way suggesting anyone tries it )

 

[Casinomeister]

As I expected, RTG requested that the screenshot be taken down - and it's now gone.

Again, it had nothing to do with their RTP. This was used by some operators to calculate bonuses. It gives an operator a view of what the risk is depending on the bonus setting.

 

[greasemonkey]

As I expected, RTG requested that the screenshot be taken down - and it's now gone.

Again, it had nothing to do with their RTP. This was used by some operators to calculate bonuses. It gives an operator a view of what the risk is depending on the bonus setting.

I'm not a math wizard I guess and it is frustrating me that I cannot wrap my head around this. Can someone please explain PRECISELY how putting in DIFFERENT HE% could better help you determine the outcome or risk of a bonus offer?

This just makes no sense to me. If players are playing red dog and for some reason the actual house win was only 0.1% over the past on that game it still isn't a predication of FUTURE play or FUTURE HE%. The future estimate can only be made on the games actual HE%. It would create massive havoc to base outcomes on the variance of past play. You can only assume actual HE% and none of the explanations here have made sense to my small brain.

That box that said you could adjust the HE% just makes no sense at all to me. I am just not sure of the explanation.

One more question is why do only some casinos supposedly have this ability or the "super user" option?

 

[sweiger]

As I expected, RTG requested that the screenshot be taken down - and it's now gone.

You know, this request could easily add to *my* tin foil hat.. if the screenshot is as innocent as stated in your post #40, why the fuzz then for making it disappear?