Royal Plaza - Beware

[ketzzz]

Hello,

I signed up to Royal Plaza about a month ago. I did NOT claim a promotion. I am also from Australia.

I deposited a total amount of 2000 EUR (this was from several smaller deposits) thinking that it was okay because I have read on forums that this grp was pretty reputable.

I got my balance up to ~5800 EUR and cashed out.

I tried to login to my account a few days later and it was locked. I emailed support many times and I did not really get any type of response except that they were looking into it.

I finally got a response today, basically saying because I signed up in Euro I my account was locked and all my winnings were confiscated. Here is their email:

"The Royal Plaza Casino Registration Terms and Conditions clearly state:

- only residents of the European Union will be able to open an account
in Euros.

- All accounts opened not according to our Account Currency Policy (i.e.
Euro accounts opened from a non-EU country) will be locked: should you
have made a deposit before the account is locked, the Casino cannot be
held responsible for any action taken afterwards.

In accordance with these terms and conditions, the Royal Plaza Casino
regretfully informs you that it has closed your casino account and
confiscated any winnings due to you.

Regards, Royal Plaza Casino"

I guess it is my fault for not reading these rules, but I had no intention of claiming a bonus. I generally never use bonuses.

I wanted to give a heads up to everyone, I am going to every board I can find and am writing this experience there, because this is thievery plain and simple. I would possibly be able to understand had I claimed a promotion, but I claimed nothing whatsoever. I played with my own money, it should be my choice which currency I want to use.

I will also Pitch a Bitch. I hope this thread helps other people to not get ripped off by these thieves.

 

[Nifty29]

Yep - you should have read the Terms. Pure and simple.

Most online Casinos have rules of this kind these days.

Why not just deposit in USD? You could have saved yourself a world of hurt - and you may have been several $k dollars better off courtesy of Royal Plaza Casino.

Put it down to a learning experience and move on - and think seriously about using USD exclusively.

Cheers

 

[happygobrokey]

but then, take a country like bulgaria that is not in the eu but probably has a lot of their economic traffic in euros. why can't they use euros as that is the closest/most natural currency to them? for that matter, why are USD the default when online gambling is illegal in the states? they should start by prohibiting the casinos from dealing in american dollars.

yes definitely it makes no difference what currency you play in if you're not getting any leverage on a promotion. it's all chips anyway. you assume essentially the same risk playing GBP5 per hand with a 50-unit stack as USD10 a hand with 100-unit stack. perhaps they should create a standard (site-by-site or universal) value of a chip, where one chip equals x.xx USD, x.xx GBP... eliminates separate currency issues with wagering requirements or residency, use your own currency to buy chips of a set value, and then they just convert it back in-house when they pay out or at neteller.

 

[GrandMaster]

Yep - you should have read the Terms. Pure and simple.

Most online Casinos have rules of this kind these days.

Why not just deposit in USD? You could have saved yourself a world of hurt - and you may have been several $k dollars better off courtesy of Royal Plaza Casino.

Put it down to a learning experience and move on - and think seriously about using USD exclusively.

Cheers

The T&C say "only residents of the European Union will be able to open an account in Euros". Despite this, the casino allowed him to open a euro account and accepted his deposits while knowing full well that he was Australia. The casino's actions indicate that it has waived the currency restriction for this player and therefore should pay the player in full. As the player did not take any bonus, so the only difference to the casino is it can expect to win about 30% more from the player than if had played in US$.

I recommend filing a complaint with

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

and you should also fill in

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

to tell them what you think of them.

 

[Nifty29]

Yes, I agree that he was allowed to play - but the way I understand it is that he made several deposits totalling EUR2000 in one session immediately after opening an account. I would assume that this information may only have been detected by the Casino during a daily audit ( assuming they dont employ someone full time to monitor the full details of every single deposit). Would the casino have closed the account and returned the deposits if the player had not cashed out?....we'll never know so there is no point speculating.

I'm not saying that this doesnt suck for the player, but the terms are clear. Personally, I'm from Australia and I know not to use EUR or Pounds at online casinos - as I said, it is very widely known to avoid doing this.

It may be to the Casinos detriment, but that is immaterial. It is every players' responsibility to read the terms before they deposit funds and anyone who isnt prepared to accept this reponsibility should not be playing online.

The player is at fault here (by their own admission) and he should leave it at that and let ECOGRA deal with legitimate cases where people really have been ripped off by rogue or incompetent casinos.

Its nothing personal, its just a point of view.

 

[BBKPoker]

I agree as well. Pretty much the entire reason of banning players from playing in a currency other than their own countries is the abuse of playing bonuses in pounds to make more money. Assuming this player did not request or claim any bonus (which you have to do manually and accept the terms on Royal Plaza) there is no particular reason why the casino should have an issue with him playing in a differing currency. It was a big mistake to not follow the rules and deposit in the right currency but this is one of the very few situations in which a player breaks the rules where I think they should be paid regardless (and play further with the knowledge they will be banned from bonuses or given the option to open a new account in the correct currenct).

I've made the mistake once each of opening accounts in Euros or Pounds before (misclicking) and I've been invited to open a new account in the correct currency and have my balance convereted and transferred there. Once I had claimed a bonus and once I had not. There doesn't seem to be a legitimate reason why the casino should take issue with doing this assuming the player's account of what happened is factual.

 

[Nifty29]

The solution of having the balance converted to a USD account and being restricted from future bonuses would be a good outcome.

Great suggestion BBK

 

[just play]

why are USD the default when online gambling is illegal in the states? they should start by prohibiting the casinos from dealing in american dollars.

Since when?

It's not illegal in the states.

 

[ketzzz]

I will email them with that suggestion, but I do not think it will happen. They have not been very helpful whatsoever in this situation.

Their Rep Pm'd me and I gave him my details. He said he may be able to help me, so we will see.

I also have not received my deposits back as of yet, and I deposited on the 4th of Sep.

Nifty, I find your position on this situation strange. Basically you are saying because I signed up in Euro (without claiming any bonuses) that the casino has a right to steal my money. This makes no sense, they should have offered me to change my currency or they should not have allowed it in the first place. My neteller account is also in Euros, the euro is much more stable than US dollars and thats the currency I feel most comfortable with. I have played at quite a few casinos and I have NEVER had a problem before.

Anyway, Ill update if I hear anything.

 

[GrandMaster]

I'm not saying that this doesnt suck for the player, but the terms are clear. Personally, I'm from Australia and I know not to use EUR or Pounds at online casinos - as I said, it is very widely known to avoid doing this.

There is no need for daily audit. If the casino is so concerned about players playing in the wrong currency, then it should not offer the disallowed currencies as a choice. As I recall, the choice of currencies is one of the last things when signing up, it certainly comes after the address, it should be easy to do with a minimal amount of programming. Confiscating players' money for playing in a disallowed currency is the sort of thing that a court might strike down as an unfair and unforceable contractual term.

If the casino is consistent then it should apply the T&C to losing players, too. I am yet to hear from anybody who deposited in the wrong currency, lost and was refunded his deposit.

 

[BBKPoker]

I will email them with that suggestion, but I do not think it will happen. They have not been very helpful whatsoever in this situation.

Their Rep Pm'd me and I gave him my details. He said he may be able to help me, so we will see.

I also have not received my deposits back as of yet, and I deposited on the 4th of Sep.

Nifty, I find your position on this situation strange. Basically you are saying because I signed up in Euro (without claiming any bonuses) that the casino has a right to steal my money. This makes no sense, they should have offered me to change my currency or they should not have allowed it in the first place. My neteller account is also in Euros, the euro is much more stable than US dollars and thats the currency I feel most comfortable with. I have played at quite a few casinos and I have NEVER had a problem before.

Anyway, Ill update if I hear anything.

If this is the case, this is a pretty legitimate reason to have signed up in Euros. As someone who lives in the U.S. I definitely agree that the dollar has been pretty volatile as of late.

I would strongly suggest that you take a screenshot of you being logged into Neteller showing that your account is registered for Euros and explain that this is the reason you signed up in Euros and explain that you didn't want to pay the currency conversion fees. That is a legitimate reason, and additionally, you never claimed a bonus so they don't really have an avenue to claim bonus or promotional abuse which is what that entire rule is pretty much designed to avoid.

 

[Nifty29]

Well, yes, the fact that your Neteller is in EUR does change things somewhat - I guess I assumed you used a credit card.

Grandmaster - I agree that the casino shouldnt allow the option. There must be a way to prevent this via the micro signup as they seem to be able to do it when it comes to country of residence and DOB etc.

Again, its not personal. Ive just been around long enough to know that if the terms are there in black and white then the casino will most likely invoke them and not pay. A player must accept SOME responsibility to be familiar with casino T&C's.

Im very disappointed they didnt return your deposits immediately - this is definitely something you should pursue as, according to the casino, the bets were not allowed and therefor not made and therefor you should receive a refund.

I really hope you get your deposits back (and maybe even your winnings as a goodwill gesture)

Royal Plaza has a big chance to get some good PR here by making an exception in this case - lets see if they come to the party.

 

[AussieDave]

If the casino is so concerned about players playing in the wrong currency, then it should not offer the disallowed currencies as a choice. As I recall, the choice of currencies is one of the last things when signing up, it certainly comes after the address, it should be easy to do with a minimal amount of programming. Confiscating players' money for playing in a disallowed currency is the sort of thing that a court might strike down as an unfair and unforceable contractual term.

I can only speak from an Australians point of view, but when you signup at any MG casino and you enter Australia as your country a drop down box appears with all the States in them.

Obviously the software's been programmed to identify Country zones. There for I'm surprised (in the instance) that it's not programmed to their currency choices too. Especially at a casino that does not accept certain currencies from certain Countries.

Without sounding like an A hole, this is another prime example of why you must read the Terms & Conditions for every casino you sign up at.

We all know that most casino's tend to throw curve balls into their T&C & so on.

If the casino is consistent then it should apply the T&C to losing players, too. I am yet to hear from anybody who deposited in the wrong currency, lost and was refunded his deposit.

 

[tombomb]

I can only speak from an Australians point of view, but when you signup at any MG casino and you enter Australia as your country a drop down box appears with all the States in them.

Obviously the software's been programmed to identify Country zones. There for I'm surprised (in the instance) that it's not programmed to their currency choices too. Especially at a casino that does not accept certain currencies from certain Countries.

Without sounding like an A hole, this is another prime example of why you must read the Terms & Conditions for every casino you sign up at.

We all know that most casino's tend to throw curve balls into their T&C & so on.




Its OK to lose in Euros they just want to screw you if you win.And they did.

 

[thelawnet]

I can only speak from an Australians point of view, but when you signup at any MG casino and you enter Australia as your country a drop down box appears with all the States in them.

Obviously the software's been programmed to identify Country zones. There for I'm surprised (in the instance) that it's not programmed to their currency choices too. Especially at a casino that does not accept certain currencies from certain Countries.

Without sounding like an A hole, this is another prime example of why you must read the Terms & Conditions for every casino you sign up at.

Wow, that's pretty harsh. The player didn't actually do anything wrong, or try to exploit the casino or anything.

One would hope that a reputable casino would not steal winnings from a player who acts in good faith.

Clearly they are deeply disreputable and are using the small print to steal from a player who won fair and square.

 

[ketzzz]

I think this might be worse than I thought. I have written them 3 emails now asking where my deposits are and I never really got a reply that meant anything. This was the latest email that I received. I want to know if you guys decipher this the way I have.

"Thank you for contacting our Casino.

As already stated in our previous email, we write to inform you that
your account has been discontinued .

Please note that the currency you have chosen does not comply with our
Terms and Conditions.
Please check our Web site under "About Us", "Terms and Conditions",
"Registration", as follows:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

All accounts opened not according to our Account Currency Policy (i.e.
Euro accounts opened from a non-EU country) will be locked: should you
have made a deposit before the account is locked, the Casino cannot be
held responsible for any action taken afterwards."

Does this mean that they will not give me back my deposits? Ive emailed them again for clarification. I will also wait to hear what their Rep says tomorrow. I am also right now going to file a complaint with Ecogra. Its one thing to take my winnings (legit winnings with no bonus play) but its another to take my deposits. Can they really do that?

 

[ketzzz]

Its official...

They are stealing my deposits as well... Here is the email from them when I asked why they have not yet paid my deposits.

Dear Craig,

Thank you for your answer.

Once again we are sorry to inform that, when opening an account in our
casino, our softwares asks you to confirm that you have read the Terms
and Conditions; by ticking the box, you confirmed you did and agreed
with it .

We apologise for the inconvenice this may cause but this decision
remains final.


This is a new low.... I have never heard of a casino stealing deposits. I have filed a complaint with Ecogra so we will see if anything comes of that.

 

[Nifty29]

This is downright disgusting.

Yes you violated the terms, BUT the way I see it is that if all the bets you made were void then you never actually played any of your deposit which means that all of the funds you deposited should be returned to your casino account which means that you should be able to withdraw them immediately.

Its one thing to refuse to pay WINNINGS based on casino rules, but it is completely unacceptable to keep the DEPOSITS if the player had no chance of winning.

If this casino doesnt give this player his money back they should be seriously considered for rogue status IMO.

 

[thelawnet]

They are stealing my deposits as well... Here is the email from them when I asked why they have not yet paid my deposits.

Dear Craig,

Thank you for your answer.

Once again we are sorry to inform that, when opening an account in our
casino, our softwares asks you to confirm that you have read the Terms
and Conditions; by ticking the box, you confirmed you did and agreed
with it .

We apologise for the inconvenice this may cause but this decision
remains final.


This is a new low.... I have never heard of a casino stealing deposits. I have filed a complaint with Ecogra so we will see if anything comes of that.

Wow.....

Crooked as hell.

This is really taking the piss, it's amazing that these people are accredited here. Just unbelievable.

 

[Flizzin]

OMG, these people are Accredited ? :icon_evil

That is pretty shady if you ask me...

 

[thelawnet]

OMG, these people are Accredited ? :icon_evil

That is pretty shady if you ask me...

right:

Casinomeister Accredited Casinos

They must have a clean history of fairness towards their customers.

I would expect this to mean - if you try to cheat or defraud the casino, then you don't get paid, and if you behave honestly you won't have thousands stolen for making a tiny mistake and not reading the small print.

It just seems like natural justice to me.

Having to check the small print for terms that you couldn't reasonably anticipate is something that you expect of Betroyal or Virtual Casino, not a casino endorsed here.

 

[bpb]

Everyone who sided with the casino in this thread should obviously side with Royal Plaza here. So everyone start piling on and tell the OP how stupid he was to break the obvious T&C, and how he deserves to lose over 5,000 euros for his blatant transgression of the rules.

 

[VegasVIP Lounge]

Royal Plaza Case Resolved

Dear All,

I am writing to inform all persons that have contributed to this thread, that Ketzz was given a full refund of his original deposits which were processed to his neteller account on wednesday evening (UK Time).

Ketzz has been notified by the Casino and by me via private message.

 

[siorton]

Dear All,

I am writing to inform all persons that have contributed to this thread, that Ketzz was given a full refund of his original deposits which were processed to his neteller account on wednesday evening (UK Time).

Ketzz has been notified by the Casino and by me via private message.

well solved bar the 3800 you stole off him for the minor transgression. If he didn't claim a bonus they you're shafting him well and truely. You've basically call a bonus abuse t&c on a non bonus taker, then when given the choice of whether to use common sense and reverse the decision, or to act like reprehensible scum you've taken the latter option.

Shame on you VEGAS VIP.

 

[The Dude]

...or to act like reprehensible scum you've taken the latter option.

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/help/

1. General Posting Rules:

1.1 - No "Flaming": Please do not post any messages that harass, insult, belittle, threaten or flame another member or guest. Abusive behavior will not be tolerated and your account may be suspended...

One week suspension for the scum comment. For a two time poster, that's a bit too much cockiness.

 

[henryVIII]

I love the line "the casino cannot be held responsible for any action taken".

Erm ... so they are saying they cannot be held responsible for any action they take.

It would be funny if it wasnt like watching someone being mugged in the street.

Are they seriously an accredited casino?

I think we have all learnt something here then.

 

[thelawnet]

Dear All,

I am writing to inform all persons that have contributed to this thread, that Ketzz was given a full refund of his original deposits which were processed to his neteller account on wednesday evening (UK Time).

Ketzz has been notified by the Casino and by me via private message.

resolved????

he won and you decided not to pay him.

funny definition of resolved.

If there's more to this than meets the eye (player lives in australia, you don't offer au$, so he quite reasonably assumed it was ok to use euros, he won, you invoke the 'sorry sucker, read the small print' clause, not because he'd set out to be dishonest, but as an excuse to avoid paying someone who won fair and square), do explain, because this is making your casino look pretty sleazy - there might be a reasonable explanation, but you hvent given one.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Rules are Rules

resolved????

he won and you decided not to pay him.

funny definition of resolved.

If there's more to this than meets the eye (player lives in australia, you don't offer au$, so he quite reasonably assumed it was ok to use euros, he won, you invoke the 'sorry sucker, read the small print' clause, not because he'd set out to be dishonest, but as an excuse to avoid paying someone who won fair and square), do explain, because this is making your casino look pretty sleazy - there might be a reasonable explanation, but you hvent given one.

It seems the explanation is "Rules are Rules" regardless of circumstances.
I will expect this same attitude to be evident when a player takes a bonus, follows the rules to the letter, and withdraws with winnings.

I don't find it unreasonable to play in the same currency as your funding source, it is common sense as considerable losses are incurred just for using currency exhange. Neteller would not have allowed the player to have another account in the correct currency for the casino.

Yet another example of a casino making the most of it's rules to make the best profits, rather than treating each player as an individual.
Behave like a faceless, uncaring, big corporation and expect to be treated as such by the criminally minded community, who will consider you "fair game" for pulling a fast one back.

It would be interesting to have some research done as to which casinos fall victim to fraud the most, and whether there is any correlation between rates of fraud and their percieved image in the larger player & fraudster community.

For example, does 32Red fall victim to more/less fraud per head than the likes of Grand Prive?

Shafting players prepared to risk 5000 Euro and not be interested in bonuses does not seem to be a good business decision as the casino can not lose as they can with bonus players. If treated well, the player may have come back with another 5000 Euro the next month.
Now, many players will be afraid to deposit in case they make some tiny mistake, and intending high rollers will be discouraged the most as they have more to lose.
This group already seem to be in trouble over non-payment issues with players who accepted a bonus and DID follow the rules. Clearly the casino wants it both ways!

 

[bpb]

Bleh, the player was playing without a bonus, so the casino was going to win all his money in the long run anyway. So they actually did him a favor by cancelling his winnings, since he would have lost them all in addition to his deposit. This way, he at least gets his deposit back.

I don't see the issue here. If the casino had a term that people named Fred can't play, and Fred Dunkelweissen was allowed to signup and win a few thousand before having his winnings voided, it's pretty clear that it's Fred's fault. He didn't read the terms and conditions, so he deserves what he gets.

You people seem to automatically always side with the player. You just don't understand the casino business. It's very clear that the casino shouldn't pay this player, and if you don't understand that, well, then it really can't be explained to you.

Nothing to see here, move along.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Issue was deposit, not just winnings.

The original issue was more that the casino would keep the deposit, not just void winnings.
The terms IS now present at the head of the T & C page, however it does NOT state that the deposit is voided, just that the account will be locked.

Worse still, not only would Neteller charge conversion fees, but the casino seems to want to as well as it is "changing it's processor".

On the other hand, it is happy to take a deposit in the "Instacash" form and pay the 8.9% itself!

Clearly, they only want players in the US Dollar generally, but have an exception for the UK and Europe who can play in their own currency.

Theoretically, UK players can use the Euro by the letter of their terms, as we are in the EU, even though we do not use the Euro.

Players who are believed to be committing fraud, it seems, WILL have their deposits returned, but all winnings voided and accounts locked.

This player should have had the deposit returned straight away, this should have never reached the state where a complaint was needed.

Any player who is not from the EU or UK, and does not have a dollar denominated deposit source, should avoid this lot simply because they will not get value for money due to losses of several percent before they even place a single wager!

This player has their deposit back, but the terms need to make it clear that the deposit is likely to be lost, not just some woolly turn of phrase about the casino not being responsible for what may happen.

 

[Flizzin]

Rules are Rules and the player got his deposit back so that about settles it wouldn't you say ?

Seems like an acceptable outcome to me..

 

[thelawnet]

Bleh, the player was playing without a bonus, so the casino was going to win all his money in the long run anyway. So they actually did him a favor by cancelling his winnings, since he would have lost them all in addition to his deposit. This way, he at least gets his deposit back.

I don't see the issue here. If the casino had a term that people named Fred can't play, and Fred Dunkelweissen was allowed to signup and win a few thousand before having his winnings voided, it's pretty clear that it's Fred's fault. He didn't read the terms and conditions, so he deserves what he gets.

You people seem to automatically always side with the player. You just don't understand the casino business. It's very clear that the casino shouldn't pay this player, and if you don't understand that, well, then it really can't be explained to you.

Nothing to see here, move along.

What a load of crap frankly.

They did him a favour by not paying his winnings?????

Because in the long run he would lose all the money if he kept playing there

Wow, that's just the worse argument I've ever heard.

Next time someone wins, it's a good one.

Dear customer,

We know you think you won the $3 million progressive, but we feel it is in your best interests that we don't pay you anything, because if we do, you will only lose it all in the long run.


HA HA HA.

Great argument, next please.

Frankly, if they did have a term that 'Fred Erdinger' couldn't play or whatever, then no, I would not expect them to enforce it, because it's unreasonable, and they could easily exclude such players with two lines of code.

I can guarantee that at a reputable, properly regulated casino you would not be treated like this.

It goes against natural justice that a player who honestly deposits and wins can have his winnings voided on a technicality.

I could see if he had another account and was claiming the bonus again but he wasn't.

Casinos have a long list of rules, but they don't enforce all of them all the time, because frankly if they did, they could confiscate everyone's money every time they play.

It is not appropriate or reasonable to invoke a 'we seize your winnings' clause on a player who has honest intentions.

In fact, by playing in Euros, given that he didn't claim any bonus, he was actually benefitting the casino, as US$ are worth less, and without a bonus the casino expects to make a profit.

it's not even as if they are just enforcing the letter of the rules.

It says

"Please note * All accounts opened not according to our Account Currency Policy (i.e. Euro accounts opened from a non-EU country) will be locked: should you have made a deposit before the account is locked, the Casino cannot be held responsible for any action taken afterwards."

It doesn't say

"If you play in the wrong currency we will seize your winnings"

It says "we cannot be held responsible"

This is the most BS term ever, of course they can be held responsible, they are making a choice out of free will. You can say "If you jump into the lions' cage, we can't be held responsible for you being eaten", or "if you choose to go on this extreme sports holiday, we can't be held responsible for you hurting yourself."

In this case they clearly can be held responsible, because they are choosing their course of action, and depsite the fact that the player's choice of actions were on average actually beneficial to the casino, they chose to "not be held responsible" for stealing thousands of euros.

 

[thelawnet]

It seems the explanation is "Rules are Rules" regardless of circumstances.
I will expect this same attitude to be evident when a player takes a bonus, follows the rules to the letter, and withdraws with winnings.

Except that the rules don't actually say they will do this. They just say they will "not be held responsible" .

It says they will lock the account, which is fair enough, but they have got nothing in their terms to say they will not pay people who win (and obviously keep their money if they lose).

The irony is that the other casinos in this group have bonuses, but this one doesn't even have one...

 

[henryVIII]

Yes, lawnet, you do kind of wonder the motives for some posters here.

Why would someone take such a plainly severe view of an innocent mistake where there isnt actually any consequences stated anyway.

I'm smelling another affiliate here.

 

[bpb]

What a load of crap frankly.

They did him a favour by not paying his winnings?????

I guess I should have enclosed my post with

<sarcasm>

</sarcasm>

 

[henryVIII]

I guess I should have enclosed my post with

<sarcasm>

</sarcasm>

Ahhhh .... now that makes sense.

 

[Sodax77]

Just checked, if they have corrected some few year old issues... but no.

News Section

Newsletter > "Coming soon" (same text 2-3 years)

Newsletter Registration > "If you want to see the current edition of our newsletter, please click here." > "Coming soon"

Jackpots > "Error 500"

Winners >
GAMES OF THE WEEK WINNERS > "Error 500"
LAST WEEK WINNERS > "Error 500"
PROGRESSIVE JACKPOT WINNERS > "Error 500"

Payouts > Latest: "July 2006 Special Report"?!?! >
Link -

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Also check out payout percentages:

July 2006:
All Games: 85.80%
Slot Games: 85.86%
Table Games: 80.70%
Poker Games: 98.76%

 

[vinylweatherman]

WTF!!

Just checked, if they have corrected some few year old issues... but no.

News Section

Newsletter > "Coming soon" (same text 2-3 years)

Newsletter Registration > "If you want to see the current edition of our newsletter, please click here." > "Coming soon"

Jackpots > "Error 500"

Winners >
GAMES OF THE WEEK WINNERS > "Error 500"
LAST WEEK WINNERS > "Error 500"
PROGRESSIVE JACKPOT WINNERS > "Error 500"

Payouts > Latest: "July 2006 Special Report"?!?! >
Link -

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Also check out payout percentages:

July 2006:
All Games: 85.80%
Slot Games: 85.86%
Table Games: 80.70%
Poker Games: 98.76%

85%!!!!!
These are indeed posted as the official PWC certificate.
Both slots AND table games at 85%, this looks very odd indeed!
Either something fishy is going on, or they have a very small number of players, and they are crap table players as well.
The slots figures would be OK for a small number of players, but I would expect there also to be considerable variance month by month as well, such that the average MG payout is attained in the long term.
I have noticed a few other casinos with unusually low slots payouts last month, around 92%. If this is reflected over ALL MG casinos then something needs to be looked at as players were also posting of bad slot experiences.
Low % figures shoots down the "you were just unlucky" excuse as EVERYBODY can't ALL be "just unlucky".

We have this urban myth about casinos milking all they can from the dying US market, and a myth it remained, till a few Crypto casinos made it fact by refusing to pay bonuses ALREADY EARNED to US players on the 1st before they withdrew bonuses and wagering. Not only have they proved the myth (why pay if the market is not wanted any longer), but they have shown what the bonus really is, a BRIBE for continued play, not a REWARD for past loyalty.

Royal Plaza does not appear to have bonuses, so I wonder about another reason for the very low figures, perhaps the 95% of other casinos includes more than the base payouts, but accounts for bonuses awarded as if they were payouts too - if only we were allowed to see the PWC workings out as well as the answers.

 

[GrandMaster]

85%!!!!!
These are indeed posted as the official PWC certificate.
Both slots AND table games at 85%, this looks very odd indeed!
Either something fishy is going on, or they have a very small number of players, and they are crap table players as well.

Table games are actually at 80%. To get 80% return on table games you need to do something like doubling down on all hard hands in blackjack or its equivalent in other games. This casino must have hit the motherlode and found the stupidest players in the universe. The only other explanation is that the confiscation of players' money for opening an account in the "wrong" currency is classified as a table game.

 

[thelawnet]

Table games are actually at 80%. To get 80% return on table games you need to do something like doubling down on all hard hands in blackjack or its equivalent in other games. This casino must have hit the motherlode and found the stupidest players in the universe. The only other explanation is that the confiscation of players' money for opening an account in the "wrong" currency is classified as a table game.

I do not believe those numbers are accurate.

I suspect the seal is false.

In many games it is not possible to play that badly even if you try:

"Three popular bad strategies encountered at the blackjack table are never bust, mimic the dealer, and always assume the dealer has a ten in the hole. All three of these are very bad strategies. Following are my specific comments on each of them, including the house edge under Atlantic City rules (dealer stands on soft 17, split up to 4 hands, double after split, double any two cards) of 0.43%.

Never bust: For my analysis of this strategy I assumed the player would never hit a hard 12 or more and based all other decisions on maximizing expected value under this assumption. This results in a house edge of 3.91%.

Mimic the dealer: For my analysis of this strategy I assumed the player would always hit 16 or less and stand on 17 or more. The player as well as dealer stood on soft 17. The player never doubled or split, since the dealer is not allowed to do so. This results in a house edge of 5.48%.

Assume ten in the hole: For this strategy I first figured out the optimal basic strategy under this assumption. If the dealer had an ace up I reverted to the proper basic strategy assumption of assuming the dealer did not have a ten. Then I went back and used this strategy under regular playing conditions. This results in a house edge of 10.03%."

 

[Sodax77]

Mini Vegas Group/Vegas Affiliates/VegasVIP Lounge - eCOGRA News:

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www.vegasjoker.com

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Outdated URL (Invalid)

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This Group don't have any kind of control... Referring (some) sites, systems, etc... those are dead.

Old Samurai:

Winners

UNDER CONSTRUCTION AMOUNT (US$) NAMES GAMES 
Microsoft OLE DB Provider for SQL Server error '80040e37' 
Invalid object name 'tblColowinners'. 

/news/winners_detail.asp, line 283

Newsletter: "Coming soon" - since 2003-2004
Webmaster "Coming soon"

Did i contacted to the Royal Plaza or old Samurai (ever).

Yes

2 Years ago i asked from Old Samurai Casino, about promos, etc
No reply within past 800 days (i resent couple times)

1 Year ago i sent email to Royal Plaza, they promize to fix those errors asap.
No action within 1 year.

But i'm glad that they have eCogra "play it safe" seal

EDIT:
One more thing:

Check their PWC stats (especially slots)

PWC - May 2006 Special Report

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Slot Games 64.01% !!!

 

[Sodax77]

Great, Mini Vegas Group/Vegas Affiliates/VegasVIP Lounge whatever you are, you will use Casinomeister reputation, and you will continue your False/misleading/messy marketing/advertising + plus your ERROR sites, And same time you will add eCogra logo to your site.... but so far, you don't even reply to questions and/or do any correction.

 

[eeeee]

Cryptkeeper warning - old thread.

This miniVegas roguing was a long time in the making. Most sites would disallow the 'wrong' currency for bonuses. Some sites disallowed the wrong currency anytime (CaptCook group) but would then help you set up a new account. The notion of 'not being responsible for what happens' is bizzare and beyond reason. Good riddance.

 

[VegasVIP Lounge]

A Statement From The Royal Plaza Casino

The Royal Plaza Casino has issued the following statement:

The Royal Plaza Casino would like to express its sincerest regret over a recent dispute that has arisen between the Casino and a number of players that are known to have been partaking in what can only be described as exploitative and abusive playing activities.

Following an in-depth investigation of this case, the Royal Plaza Casino initially took the decision to lock the offending player's accounts and refund their initial deposits.
Although the Royal Plaza Casino knows that this was the correct and just response to the actions of the players in question, criticism from the wider gaming community has prompted it to reappraise its recent actions. In turn the Royal Plaza Casino has decided to pay the offending players their winnings. The Royal Plaza Casino would like to emphasise that the circumstances relating to this case are quite different from any other that it has encountered before. The casino group cannot release full details relating to this case due to the implications it holds for its partners and for the wider security of the Casino.

The players involved in these illegitimate playing activities have been both highly organised and inventive in their methods. Therefore, although their accounts will be reopened and winnings paid, the Royal Plaza Casino reserves the right to take whatever actions it sees as necessary should these players display any further signs of engaging in exploitative playing activities.

Finally, the Royal Plaza Casino would like to once again emphasize that it pays millions of winners every year without delay or hassle. It is a fact that wherever the Casino Group has made a genuine error, it has always done all that it can to compensate the players in question.

 

[mucullus]

Wow, VegasVIPLounge! Have you ever read the thread before crossposting?

 

[vinylweatherman]

Thanks rep.

I would like to thank the rep for bumping this thread, perhaps they would like to explain this:-

EDIT:
One more thing:

Check their PWC stats (especially slots)

PWC - May 2006 Special Report Best Casino Gambling - Old Samurai Casino

Slot Games 64.01% !!!

This looks like the CASINO has been cheating!
This is unlike anything I have seen before, although I am used to seeing some variation in the PWC stats, this one should have rung alarm bells!
ECogra seems happy with these figures, and the seal has been granted.
Further analysis is needed, along with an explanation, as these are the figures from the AUDITOR, not some cock-up calculation at the casino.

Microgaming must comment if it is possible that such a sharp downward turn in payouts still reflects the requirements for the games to be both random in the long term, AND in the medium term (Ie - no long streaks).

 

[aka23]

Old Samurai is a small casino with little promotion and few players. The small number of players results in wild fluctuations in payouts. Even so, their average slot payout for the past year was about 80%, far below typical Microgaming. Their games list at

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doesn't show the usual 5-reel video slots. They may be an old non-viper casino with 3-reel slots. I suspect that the slots that they do have, have an average payout near 80%, while the more popular 5-reel video slots at other casinos have an average payout near 95-96%.

EDIT: I checked the slot payout for 999 Casino, which only has old 3-reel games, to compare. The average payout over the past 12 visible months (Jun and July 2006 are not visible) was about 88%... half way between Old Samurai and the usual for newer MG viper casinos. It is not clear to me why Old Samurai is lower.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Good Point

This illustrates the problem with these PWC figures then. They give no information as to player base, or size of sample, they just give a single figure. If they have a limited range of games, then the slots they have must be the really crappy ones, and shows just what a load of bull the marketing is when casinos trumpet their "we pay 98%" etc. They are using selective information to look better than the really are under the skin.
Unlike Lasseters, MG and other brands do not disclose the expected return on individual games, UNLESS it is good for marketing. They have certainly made a point of advertising payouts on the various 99%+ VP games they have released, but the figures are absent from the marketing for the new slots. Maybe these are being designed with somewhat lower payouts while we players still recite the mantra "slots pay 95% on average".

If the casino is so small, why not merge it with a bigger brand and make savings - other groups have done this as the market has contracted due to the US situation.

 

[wootchris]

The Royal Plaza Casino has issued the following statement:

The Royal Plaza Casino would like to express its sincerest regret over a recent dispute that has arisen between the Casino and a number of players that are known to have been partaking in what can only be described as exploitative and abusive playing activities.

Following an in-depth investigation of this case, the Royal Plaza Casino initially took the decision to lock the offending player's accounts and refund their initial deposits.
Although the Royal Plaza Casino knows that this was the correct and just response to the actions of the players in question, criticism from the wider gaming community has prompted it to reappraise its recent actions. In turn the Royal Plaza Casino has decided to pay the offending players their winnings. The Royal Plaza Casino would like to emphasise that the circumstances relating to this case are quite different from any other that it has encountered before. The casino group cannot release full details relating to this case due to the implications it holds for its partners and for the wider security of the Casino.

The players involved in these illegitimate playing activities have been both highly organised and inventive in their methods. Therefore, although their accounts will be reopened and winnings paid, the Royal Plaza Casino reserves the right to take whatever actions it sees as necessary should these players display any further signs of engaging in exploitative playing activities.

Finally, the Royal Plaza Casino would like to once again emphasize that it pays millions of winners every year without delay or hassle. It is a fact that wherever the Casino Group has made a genuine error, it has always done all that it can to compensate the players in question.

Great.

Were you going to pay me the $1500 or whatever it is that you stole from me? I PM'd you my details long ago.