Roulette Machines in shops

[dazlazz]

Hi folks,

I notice in the UK now, that most of the offline betting shops have tons of betting terminals in which you can play roulette, BJ etc.

Does anyone have any experience of these, i.e. do they use RNG, can the payout % be amended etc

The reason I'm asking is that a friend of mine has lost a packet playing roulette on these machines in recent months.

Cheers,

Dazzla

 

[DemonUK]

To my knowledge the machines are connected to one central location which sends out a stream of random numbers. If the network goes down so do all the terminals. I don't know for certain, just what one bookmaker told me.

We tested it on 3 machines next to each other. We all pressed the play button as close to the same time as we could, and all three gave us the same number. We weren't on it either lol

 

[aminair]

Hi folks,

I notice in the UK now, that most of the offline betting shops have tons of betting terminals in which you can play roulette, BJ etc.

Does anyone have any experience of these, i.e. do they use RNG, can the payout % be amended etc

The reason I'm asking is that a friend of mine has lost a packet playing roulette on these machines in recent months.

Cheers,

Dazzla

I once put 1.40 in and lost it all.

Never again.

 

[DemonUK]

I once had 6 on zero and it came in 3 times on the bounce, never happened since though

 

[DiamondGeezer]

You are talking about FOBT's - Fixed Odds Betting Terminals. Avoid these like the plague. They only return about 90%. They are hugely profitable for the UK betting industry but a disaster for punters. It is no surprise your friend has lost a lot of money.

When they first came out there was a bug of some kind and I believe people got wind of it and were able to place bets on the ball landing in a particular sector ie they knew roughly where the ball was going to land. But ofcourse that has long since been fixed and now all these machines do is fleece everyone.

 

[KasinoKing]

You are talking about FOBT's - Fixed Odds Betting Terminals. Avoid these like the plague. They only return about 90%.

Do you know that for a fact?
I would be HUGELY surprised if bookies in the UK would be allowed to offer roulette machines which are not 100% random & pay less than roulette in a real casino would.

VWM is probably the resident expert on this...

 

[GaryWatson]

My mate plays these all the time. He can tell you what number the ball will land on as soon as it starts spinning. It doesnt help as his money is on by that time. ive heard somewhere they have a 90% payout. Defo better odds in the casino. we jumped a taxi into the casino. he managed to lose there too. The moral of the story is, at least the casino allow us to drink at the roulette machines when we are losing

 

[WAYLANDER]

My mate plays these all the time. He can tell you what number the ball will land on as soon as it starts spinning. It doesnt help as his money is on by that time. ive heard somewhere they have a 90% payout.

I used to play these alot too....so much in fact that i too could tell what number it was going to be as soon as it starts spinning ( it is all in the start positioning of the ball compared to the numbers ) .
Although it is all done by a central R N G , i have read uk literature to back this up, also have seen the same number on seperate machines at the same time far too many times to be a coincidence.
So unless there are other factors they should be the same % as any other non rigged roulette

WAYLANDER

 

[DemonUK]

The only reason you know where the ball is going to land is because you must play it excessively. It is a computer, but the numbers are generated by a RNG elsewhere, its like you know how far infront of the ship you had to be before you fired in Space Invaders or something. The numbers are random, the path of the ball based on the randomly generated number is pre programmed. They are not fixed odds as far as I am aware

 

[WAYLANDER]

The only reason you know where the ball is going to land is because you must play it excessively. It is a computer, but the numbers are generated by a RNG elsewhere, its like you know how far infront of the ship you had to be before you fired in Space Invaders or something. The numbers are random, the path of the ball based on the randomly generated number is pre programmed.

This is true, i wasn't trying to claim i was psychic or something.

On the first machines ( i believe they are on a next generation now ) when you pressed spin after placing your bets if you had " excessively " played them you could tell what number was coming by the position of the ball in relation to the wheel for a split second before the wheel moved, then one of two preset routes ( always the same path/bounce etc ) would occur until it reached the number.

Nothing fixed or dodgy... just basic software !

WAYLANDER

 

[DiamondGeezer]

Do you know that for a fact?
I would be HUGELY surprised if bookies in the UK would be allowed to offer roulette machines which are not 100% random & pay less than roulette in a real casino would.

VWM is probably the resident expert on this...

The 90% must be an average for all games. You are right in that they are still the same game and are random. The FO in FOBT refers to the games and not the method used to calculate them. And I was really referring to the machines in general not specifically roulette.

AFAIK they have lotto type games and virtual racing and this is where the huge mark ups are. Certainly FOBT's are hugely profitable for the betting industry.

 

[GaryWatson]

standard fruit machines have the payout % on the machines.

I assumed the roulette was the same. I dont recall seeing the % on the machine but I thought it was fixed odds.

I avoid them like the plague but I cant imagine players getting the 97.5% average, or whatever it is.

I dont know, just guessing. Maybe they do offer true odds?

Either way, I have not looked at their rules so I dont know if they claim true odds or pay out a random, fixed payout of 90% or so

 

[GaryWatson]

Ok tried a search. dam spam sites and antivirus downloaders.

On my way out so no time to search deeper. I was on the assumption that they were on fixed odds payouts like fruit machines, maybe wrong

 

[GaryWatson]

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At the forefront of this drive are fixed-odds betting terminals (FOBTs), which allow punters to play roulette and other casino games.

These have caught on quickly, providing more predictable revenues and higher profit margins than traditional betting.

By the end of the first half of 2003, William Hill had 2,525 FOBTs in its 1,600 branches, up from 1,745 six months earlier.

This contributed to an 18% increase in "gross win" - a measure of net takings - for William Hill's retail division.

And at the firm's interactive division, which provides online betting - including a new attraction, virtual greyhound racing - saw gross win jump by 32%.

So it looks as if they do have their own version of roulette odds

 

[Alexishot69]

True randomness

The old debate Fixed odds betting terminals and there randomness..on one hand you have the integrity of companies involved and on the other hand you have the would they cheat argument.These machines have been proclaimed the crack cocaine of betting addiction goto www.gamcare.co.uk and search forums there for FOBTs and you will see the vast majority of offline gambling addiction is down to these horrendous machines.

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The links a typical daily new post on the gamcare forum. However every single day in the uk there are new shops opening up with more of these horrendous machines .In the town i live there are 6 shops in the space of 1/2 mile .To be honest they were originaly opened to let people bet on horse racing but that is daily taking a back seat to a more lucrative source of income the FOBTs. They even have virtual racing and virtual greyhounds they now have virtual card games virtual poker but hey ask if theres any non runners at a meeting where the horses are real and youll be in most cases told there just isnt enough screens or im too busy atm come back in a few minutes..

I know a lass who is a manager in a local shop and she cant believe the vast sums they take in a normal day.way more than the days takings on real racing by a mile on most days.So in all reality the betting shop is now nomore than a land of virtualness and more a casino than a bookmakers. As for the true randomness of these machines well punters in the uk have been ripped off for years by these big companies so why wouldnt they do the same with these machines?? The easy answer for them is "our integrity" try telling this to a lad in my local paper only last week who lost 42k in 4 weeks after selling his house and now lives ina hostel for the homeless.Before he was an average joe who syas max bet was always 5 and only a cpl times a week.Managed oneday after lipping a 1 coin into the machines win 20 and was hooked.

Te story goes on about the poor guy who on his final day lost his last 7k in 2 hours with a run of unbelievable results.Betting on low numbers 0-9 starting at 5 on each had over 60 spins in a row with no small numbers and one number came up 7x in 8 spins..now i dare anyone to tell me the odds on that event occurring in a "real game" of roulette but thats just the tip of the iceberg on these FOBTs its a "normal " occurrence..people cover all but 2 numbers and yeah u know the rest or it pays out the number with the least chips on it same old story allover the UK..

As for integrity well heres a link written by a very well educated and very well known racing pundit in the uk see what he thinks of ladjokes

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As u can see if u have read it not a lot but that shows ladbrokes in a more truer light so why not just a slight twitch to make the % even bigger? after all this link shows how rngs are flawed epecially the ones used in betting shops

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At the end of the day though the bottom line is here are they fixed and id have to say yes cos thhats the way these companies have always worked robbing punters.

 

[funky_seagull]

I went into ladbrokes today to have a look at the machines.

They offer roulette, videopoker, various slots and blackjack, and you select which game you want to play using the touchscreen. All the games seem the same as the online versions to be honest. They didn't feel rigged to me.

I ended up sticking with blackjack, and the game played fair, the RNG seemed to behave just the same as the ones online do. In fact it was just a touchscreen equivalent of an online casino really, with a slot to put your money in.

I think I may go back sometime and play with a bigger bankroll. Cause it was nice to go to the cashier and get my winnings instantly in my hand...

Perhaps some people play the games without following any basic strategy and is why they lose?

However I can't speak for any other casino machines as have only played the ones in ladbrokes so far....

I don't think they would dare to rig these machines...

I do however think there should be more help for complusive gamblers though, betting shops shouldn't turn a blind eye to people who have obviously got a problem, there should be measures in place to keep an eye on people who are showing signs of complulsive gambling... and do something actively to help them...

That is the great crime really, not actively looking out for and helping people who can't control their gambling anymore.

 

[Alexishot69]

you know

No matter what forum what posts the second anyone mentions the fact they do not think they are above board you always without fail get someone to postdefending them ...why would they not tweak the %s ??? even a tiny bit could make a company massive profits and be almost undetectable. no?

 

[KasinoKing]

Perhaps some people play the games without following any basic strategy and is why they lose?

Even if you had you own computer playing 100% perfect strategy for you, you would still lose because there is no possible strategy which will defeat the house edge in the long run.
The main reason gamblers lose (and I an exactly the same) is simply because they do not quit if they get ahead.

No matter what forum what posts the second anyone mentions the fact they do not think they are above board you always without fail get someone to post defending them ...why would they not tweak the %s ??? even a tiny bit could make a company massive profits and be almost undetectable. no?

Yes, you are right. There would be virtually no way for anyone to tell if they tweaked the odds slightly in their favour. The main argument against that is why would they? If these machines are taking 10% HA why even risk the possibility of someone finding out? They are making millions anyway, why be greedy?

I'm not saying they don't tweak the odds - how could I know? All I know is it would not be logical, and certainly all the times I have played these machines I have seen nothing to substantiate cheating.

 

[funky_seagull]

I agree with you about quitting while you're ahead, that seems to be the only way you can win in the end...

The reason why I mentioned not using basic startegy was I noticed someone on one of these machines playing roulette and betting large amounts on the individual numbers... now to me that is a bad strategy, as from my own experience you will do much better betting on the outer edge, with the even odds bets.

I also noticed someone else playing blackjack, who hit when she had a 17.

I didn't know whether to say anything to these people, as I wasn't sure if they would take my advice the wrong way or not...

I was just thinking maybe some people play these machines without knowing the game they are playing... I believe there are people who do this online as well...

I agree basic strategy won't let you win in the long term. But in the short term it can make a difference and give you a better possibility of winning something. However this won't help at all if someone who knows basic strategy doesn't quit while their ahead as they will still lose.

I agree it is greed which throws a spanner in the works for everyone.

If you can walk away from a casino content with a 20% profit then you have done well. But knowing when to stop that is the hard part...

 

[D!G!TAL]

after all this link shows how rngs are flawed epecially the ones used in betting shops

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The RNG used in the betting shop will be located on a separate server and the RNG used in online casinos is certainly not the Windows one (except perhaps the fun version when playing offline.) I guess that article shows that there could be flaws in the software, but this is the case with any software. If it were found to be the case, as with the Windows RNG, it would be by accident not by design. This would then leave the casino/ bookie open to the same abuse- just work out the sequence (good luck with that )

That article does highlight a potential problem though as most casino cashiers are protected by SSL keys which it seems may be under threat from this potential hole in Windows security...

 

[Alexishot69]

uk bookmakers

Found this on the gambling commissions website it seems not alls as i suspected corect withing LICENSED uk bookmakers premises ..

Old / Expired Link

Just have this feeling this is only the tip of the iceberg..