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Your Input Please Reducing Paylines + Higher Denomination Coins

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by Nicola, Jun 28, 2014.

    Jun 28, 2014
  1. Nicola

    Nicola Casino Affiliate MM mm1 webmeister

    Occupation:
    Web Developer
    Location:
    Green Park, London
    As I've been on night-shifts all week, I must have read hundreds of threads and looked through what seemed thousands of screenshots on CM. One thing that I noticed was the occasional screenshot where players have reduced their paylines to just 1 or 2 and they get 5 wilds, 5 scatters or a high value win of x2000+.

    To experiment, I chose one of my worst games (never hit the scatter free spins or had any luck)... Mega Moolah Summertime.

    Less than 10 minutes in, I get 3 scatters = 15 free spins and SEVEN retriggers (wtf) and two of the top paytable wins (see below)

    So my question to the community is (or someone with the knowledge of this) does reducing paylines and/or upping coin value with less paylines have any affect on gameplay or payouts?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Jun 28, 2014
  3. AmarrEmperor

    AmarrEmperor Dormant account

    Occupation:
    n/a
    Location:
    USA
    Be extremely careful. Many slots are known to have lower RTP if not played on max lines. Some of the RTP reduction is huge, like from 95% to 60%.

    So yes it does have an effect. Best not mess with it unless you're sure that particular slot had consistent RTP.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2014
    1 person likes this.
  4. Jun 28, 2014
  5. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    PAID CASINO SHILL
    Location:
    Turn right, then right. then right again
    The only thing reducing lines does is increase the variance.

    It has no effect on TRTP AFAIK.

    The OP here got EXTREMELY lucky. I think if she posts the next 100 bonus rounds we might see a different story.
     
    6 people like this.
  6. Jun 28, 2014
  7. rockycatt

    rockycatt meistercatt CAG MM

    Occupation:
    carpenter
    Location:
    Boston
    with out any documented proof I can tell you I have experienced it just my word that's all I have for proof :)
     
  8. Jun 28, 2014
  9. QueenBee

    QueenBee Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Retired, used to be a translator
    Location:
    Denmark
    Been wondering too....

    I have experienced the same. I have been playing in some tournaments lately at a Danish casino, where the number of spins is the only factor. Every day a new slot. So I have tried quite a few slots playing many spins on one line. I seem to hit the features and retriggers a lot more than when playing at max lines.
     
  10. Jun 28, 2014
  11. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    PAID CASINO SHILL
    Location:
    Turn right, then right. then right again
    Yeah I've experienced it too. So what? It proves nothing.

    All it proves is that sometimes you win when you up your bet/decrease your lines/play after 5pm on Tuesday/hold your breath.

    It's a perception thing. You remember the big wins when you up your bet because.....well, they are bigger than you're used to because the bet is bigger, but they stand out because they're usually among your bigger wins overall. The truth is that there are MANY times when you DON'T win when upping your bet/holding your breath etc.....but you don't remember those because you LOST.

    I'll throw out the challenge for anyone to prove/disprove this POV. Over the next month, when you get the urge to up your bet etc, record those bets/lines (or copy paste from playcheck etc) and let's see if doing these things DOES make you win more/more often. I'll put $50 to a CM charity on the fact that you will lose most of the time, just like if you were flat betting .20c a spin.

    Saying something happens doesn't mean something always or consistently happens....and if it doesn't consistently happen, then it's pointless as a strategy and unusable in terms of trying to "beat" the game. The TRTP is the same folks whether you play one line or 50...only the variance changes.
     
    4 people like this.
  12. Jun 28, 2014
  13. QueenBee

    QueenBee Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Retired, used to be a translator
    Location:
    Denmark
    We agree...

    I am not changing stakes, only playing 1 line on lowest bet, thousands of spins. I am not saying that I win more (I don't) only that the features seem to kick in more often, with more spins, multipliers and retriggers. Maybe to stay on the TRTP?
     
  14. Jun 28, 2014
  15. miso

    miso Meister Member MM

    Occupation:
    accountant
    Location:
    Ireland
    Exactly.

    Nicola, I`ve been playing Starburst on one line only for a couple of months now. You know what that slot is like,
    you can play to oblivion on 10 lines without going anywhere. On one line though, a lot more dead spins, but bigger wins.

    Some other slots that I play on 3 or 5 lines are Golden Shamrock and Egyptian Heroes (both have expanding wilds on 2,3,4).

    It`s fun (sometimes). Can`t say that it`s especially rewarding, due to the awful number of dead spins, but when you hit, you hit ;)
     
  16. Jun 28, 2014
  17. Blathaon

    Blathaon Meister Member

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Norway
    On some slots it does.

    NetEnt - Ghost Pirates
    The theoretical return to player for this game is 95.3% - 96.9%
    The higher the number of bet ways played, the higher the RTP is.

    NetEnt - Egyptian Heroes
    The theoretical return to player for this game is 93.8%-96.7%
    The higher the number of bet lines played, the higher the RTP is.

    NetEnt - Frankenstein
    The theoretical return to player for this game is 71.0%-96.7%
    The higher the number of bet lines played, the higher the RTP is.

    It's hard to say if this is the case with Microgaming since they don't publish the TRTP of their games.

    But since this seems to only be the case with a handful of NetEnt slots then I'm guessing it's the way the wilds work in these slots, Egyptian Heroes have expanding wilds and the middle reel is locked wild in free spins, and Frankenstein have spreading wilds.
     
    6 people like this.
  18. Jun 28, 2014
  19. Captain Chaos

    Captain Chaos Senior Member webby

    Occupation:
    Train Guard
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    71%? Bloody hell! Pub fruity's pay better than that! Why the massive swing on that one I wonder?

    Also, why does MG not publish TRTP for their slots? I mean, what harm could it do? Most others do it and I can't imagine the TRTP is that bad compared to others they decide not to publish it. Bit odd.
     
  20. Jun 28, 2014
  21. Blathaon

    Blathaon Meister Member

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Norway
    I know videoslots lists the TRTP for MG slots but there is no additional info like on the NetEnt slots, so if there are MG slots that have reduced RTP while playing less than max lines then we wouldn't know.

    And the RTP for MG slots is not in the help file of the slot this is something that videoslots had to drag out of them, for some reason they don't like to give it out.

    It's not like the RTP for most MG slots is any worse than the RTP from other providers.

    Having said that i doubt that this is a big issue, on many newer slots you can't even reduce the number of lines.
     
  22. Jun 28, 2014
  23. skiny

    skiny Banned User - violation of <a href="http://www.cas

    Occupation:
    Doing everyone else's job.
    Location:
    Canada
    I know some people seem to think that the games hit more often when they play less lines but they don't. If you only reduce the amount of lines you play by 1 or 2 you're not really gaining much and you're risking your one big hit being one of those lines but if you drastically reduce the amount of lines you play you can take a low variance game and turn it into a high variance game.

    So what's the point?

    The point is the bonus rounds. If you drop your total lines to 5, 7 or 9 you can spin a lot longer than if you're playing 20 or 25 lines. That gives you a better shot of actually making it to the next bonus round. The chances are you're going to miss some good lines along the way but it's a slot game so the chances are you're also going to go broke whether you played those lines or not before you trigger a bonus round.

    You can do well by decreasing the amount of lines you play but you need a strategy to increase your potential win and in my opinion that all rests in the type of bonus round. Simply getting 10 free spins with a 2 or 3 times multiplier isn't going to help much.

    The best strategies to benefit from playing less lines are;

    Pick games that have very high multipliers during the bonus rounds so if you do get a decent hit on one of your lines it will pay for all the lines you missed and then some.

    Pick games that have expanding wilds. That way you have a good shot of hitting multiple lines even though you're only playing a small portion of the lines available.

    Pick games that give a ton of free spins. Obviously the more free spins you get the better your chances are of hitting something during the free spins and when you do you'll be playing with a multiplier.

    There is also one RTG game (Fruit Frenzy) that requires you get a line of 5 to trigger the bonus round but when you do the bonus plays with all 25 lines regardless of how many lines you played when you triggered it.

    High variance means you can hit big by betting less and betting less means you get to spin longer. That's the only benefit you'll receive from playing less than the available lines but I've got some pretty good hits playing like this when I know I would have been long since broke if I kept playing all the lines.

    This one didn't require a bonus round but I only had 2 bucks left and started auto-spinning it hoping for the 100x10. I got this instead.

    Reducing Paylines + Higher Denomination Coins: 5c.jpg,Jun 28, 2014
     
    3 people like this.
  24. Jun 28, 2014
  25. maphesto

    maphesto Ueber Meister CAG MM webmeister

    Location:
    Sweden
    I often play with reduced number of lines, I love it!

    Remember that on many RTG slots you have a higher TRTP when you reduce the number of lines.
     
    1 person likes this.
  26. Jun 28, 2014
  27. tinybettor

    tinybettor Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Retail Store Manager
    Location:
    Australia
    From my personal experience, changing lines and coin sizes has had absolutely no effect whatsoever on the payout of the slot. What I can gather though from your screenies is you are one incredibly lucky person. I wish I could have that luck sometime.
     
  28. Jun 28, 2014
  29. miso

    miso Meister Member MM

    Occupation:
    accountant
    Location:
    Ireland
    I know this is a ridiculous screenshot, but perfect to make a point.

    I had 20c in party account, so went to clear that. I could have opened any slot and make one spin, but went to Grand Monarch,
    with stacked wilds. Playing one line gave me 20 spins, thus bigger chance of hitting anything.

    And even though the win is measly, 250x bet is 250x bet.

    Reducing Paylines + Higher Denomination Coins: monarch1.jpg,Jun 28, 2014
     
  30. Jun 28, 2014
  31. Vegasbum

    Vegasbum Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Teacher
    Location:
    Ontario
    Good reply Skiny. You are right on.

    I ALWAYS play reduced lined and have done so for many years. I could post screen shots every day because when you do hit, your stakes are much higher and hence a large payoff. But Skiny is right in that you have to pick and choose your game. Playing reduced lines on some games will break you while on others it is the key to winning. Also with reduced lines it helps to vary your bet size (I will not explain this)

    If you notice most new games released in the past year force you to play all lines.....why do you think that is.....Casinos love players who hit max lines and play blind.
     
    2 people like this.
  32. Jun 28, 2014
  33. catapultaudio

    catapultaudio Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Computer Programmer
    Location:
    Leeds, UK
    It never fails to amaze me when for whatever reason I drop a game down to one or two lines and all of a sudden hit some outrageous combination .. I often play Great Blue on 9/13/17 lines at the moment just because when that slot is withholding the bonus it can really test your bankroll, and much as I love playing the full 25 lines I won't do that at the moment even on min bet without at least 250x starting balance, although I absolutely hate hitting a tonne of stacked wilds in the feature when not playing max lines!

    Break da Bank Again is another one that has made me laugh more than once, I've literally had 1p left in my balance, hit the bonus, then hit a 750x bet win in the feature ..

    I seem to remember in the winner screenshots thread there are a couple of players who have the game set up at 1 line, but playing some outrageous bet size on the one line, and it left me amazed - surely you MUST go broke 99/100 times with this strategy?? ...
     
  34. Jun 28, 2014
  35. nisosbar

    nisosbar Ueber Meister PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Other
    Location:
    Right here
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think what you are referring to is the arbitrary cap placed on wins, to 50,000x the line bet (which has been discussed in the forums here previously).

    That is, RTG has a cap on total $/bet which you can win on any single spin/any single free spin feature. So that even if you are playing 25 lines on, for example, Count Spectacular, and you get that once-in-a-lifetime 5 expanding wilds, you will be paid only on 5 lines, due to this cap.
     
    1 person likes this.
  36. Jun 28, 2014
  37. maphesto

    maphesto Ueber Meister CAG MM webmeister

    Location:
    Sweden
    Exactly!

    I think that the older RSVS have a cap of 50 000x line bet and some newer have 150000x line bet (at least Vulcan). 50 000 x line bet sounds very good but when you see that you on ONE line on Paydirt can win 30 000x line bet you understand that you have a lower TRTP already when playing two lines instead of one. :eek:
     
    2 people like this.
  38. Jun 28, 2014
  39. nikantw

    nikantw Ueber Meister MM PABaccred

    Occupation:
    A bit of this and that
    Location:
    EU
    The effect is mostly in your mind. You see all the wins you could have had, if you had played more lines. And get bored from the slot being dead almost all the time. You get more playtime maybe. But, in the long run, RTP stays the same.

    If it makes the game more fun for you, then do it! :thumbsup:
     

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