(Possible stupid question alert!) Would I be right in saying...

[H1_Roller]

....that if I play at a casino whose customer base is rather large, I have (technically) a better chance of winning, seeing as they take in much more money than those with a smaller customer base?

[More money in = more chance of money out?]

I don't know if this is a stupid question or not, so I'm stepping out on the ledge with it anyway.
It should be well known by the regular posters here that I'm a big fan of Ladbrokes, basically because of all the casinos I play(ed) at, I've won more consistently there than anywhere else. But then 32Red aren't shy of customers/players/punters/clientele (whatever) either and I couldn't win there to save my life. Perhaps I'm answering my own question with that point?

[I know it's slim, but] Do I have as much chance of hitting a perfect Wildstorm on TSII @ 32Red/Ladbrokes as I would have hitting it @ [insert smaller MG-powered casino here]?

And as a side note, but on the same subject - who, aside from those I've mentioned, are the 'Big Boys' of the online casino world?

 

[plasticnote]

Hi H1_Roller:

Based on my personal experience, I feel that if a MG casino has more players, you have better chances to hit something. However, this is just my feel and no proof or bases what-so-ever.

This assumption is only applied to MG casinos. NOT RTG, NOT playTech. And I believe that as a UK player, for your own good, stay with MG. It will give you the best value of your money. And yes, play with large group.

I play at: fortune lounge (they have the best bonus and very good C/S, withdrawals are a bit slow 24 - 48 hours weekdays), 32red (dash, 32red), Jackpot Factory, redflush and GNUF/palace group.

I have had big withdrawals(>5K) from all of them, and never worry about not getting paid.

 

[DiamondGeezer]

No H1_Roller it's not a stupid question atall.

The answer is that if say you are on the MG network then it makes no difference what site you are playing on. Ladbrokes for example are just a client of MG. When you press 'spin' it gets sent to the MG RNG and the result gets sent back to you Lads account. So it doesn't matter where you play accross a network as RTP will be exactly the same.

It's the same for Playtech and Cryptologic but the RTP on slots will be different to MG ofcourse.

I take it that you are currently in a pattern of getting caned at 32Red and winning at Lads a lot. I know such things can feel very powerful but it is pure coincidence. But when it's happening it's obviously a hard habit to break. It's certainly a very powerful feeling!

If you want to learn more about software and gambling an excellent site is wizardofodds. It's a brilliant site for all things gambling.

As for who are the big boys - that indeed is a tricky one!

In the UK/Europe I would say the biggest ones are:

Will Hill
Ladbrokes
Intercasino
Party/BWIN

then

Mansion
Tote/Betfred
Bet365
32red
Betsson
Betway/GNUF
Paddy Power
Virgin
Coral/Gala
Red Flush
Expekt

I've probably missed a few out but this is off the top of my head.

 

[H1_Roller]

Hi H1_Roller:

Based on my personal experience, I feel that if a MG casino has more players, you have better chances to hit something. However, this is just my feel and no proof or bases what-so-ever.

This assumption is only applied to MG casinos. NOT RTG, NOT playTech. And I believe that as a UK player, for your own good, stay with MG. It will give you the best value of your money. And yes, play with large group.

Thanks. I should have mentioned in the OP that I was actually referring to MG casinos, because I only really play at casinos that are MG-powered.

EDIT: DiamondGeezer - I don't play at 32Red, and haven't done for a few months. I couldn't win there, so I decided to quit while I was behind (rather than ahead). Thanks for the reply.

 

[plasticnote]

I don't play at 32Red, and haven't done for a few months. I couldn't win there, so I decided to quit while I was behind (rather than ahead). Thanks for the reply.

May I suggest that:

You may try other casinos at 32red Plc. and switch more often from each other.

Gaming is full of surprise and make it so addictive

 

[Jasminebed]

I'd have to say it doesn't make any difference on the slots. Where it might make a difference in what loyalty programs/bonuses they have to offer.

You might find at a smaller casino, that if you are a regular and loyal player that you might be considered VIP at a much different level of play. But then again, maybe not.

Good luck wherever you play.

 

[H1_Roller]

I'd have to say it doesn't make any difference on the slots. Where it might make a difference in what loyalty programs/bonuses they have to offer.

You might find at a smaller casino, that if you are a regular and loyal player that you might be considered VIP at a much different level of play. But then again, maybe not.

Good luck wherever you play.

Thanks Jasmine

I do actually have a lot of luck (especially lately), a quick scan through the winner's screen shots thread from the last week or so would tell you that.
I'm really only asking because I'm actually winning so much at Ladbrokes and GoWild, I wanted to know if there was any point playing anywhere else

 

[Temperance Fox]

Absolutely interesting question.
I don't know the answer.But think:maybe a big casino (such 32Red) in the meantime you're playing has few people (for a lot of reasons) .
Another smaller in the same period has a lot of player with much more deposits...What happens?
And if this period takes one month?

 

[steveh35]

I maybe wrong about this but doesn't each game have a number so if for example 1 person only is playing a slot you get the next game up but if 100 people playing you get the next 100th game depending on how quickly you spin.

So any boff brains does that mean you more likely to win if you get the next consecutive games or if you say get every 100th game.

I was playing a slot the other day and kept getting the next 7th game if i span the same speed.

 

[Nifty29]

The odds of hitting any combination on any spin is the same regardless of what casino or how many are playing.

If the odds were better, then they would have to be better for everyone which would mean the RTP would be higher which it isn't. Working back from that, since the RTP is the same on all MG games, if you believed your odds of winning were better at a big casino, you would have to believe they were worse for someone else, which is nonsense.

Either way, casino size makes no difference.

 

[chayton]

I've wondered that myself - in the B&M casinos I've always noticed that I can't seem to win if I sit down at a bank of machines where nobody else is playing. If more people sit down to play, the games seem to start paying out. But it may be just coincidence.

Back a long time ago when I played at Grand Prive (back when they were still MG and before I was a member here), you used to be able to transfer part or all of your balance from one casino to another - which was really cool, I wish other groups would do that. Anyhow, I remember on one of their newsletters it said something like, "If your favorite game isn't paying out on XYZ casino, try transferring your funds to ZYX casino because each of our casinos has its OWN RNG."

So in the back of my mind I always thought that each MG casino operated like that, not all sharing the same RNG....?

 

[KasinoKing]

Back a long time ago when I played at Grand Prive (back when they were still MG and before I was a member here), you used to be able to transfer part or all of your balance from one casino to another - which was really cool, I wish other groups would do that. Anyhow, I remember on one of their newsletters it said something like, "If your favorite game isn't paying out on XYZ casino, try transferring your funds to ZYX casino because each of our casinos has its OWN RNG."

So in the back of my mind I always thought that each MG casino operated like that, not all sharing the same RNG....?

Personally I think that's complete nonsense!
Just pathetic marketing "spin" to try to get people playing more.
In any case, it's not the RNG which determines the pay-out level, it's the designed in RTP of each game.

Regarding the original question, my answer is exactly the same as Nifty's above.

KK

 

[chayton]

Personally I think that's complete nonsense!

You're probably right - it was Grand Prive after all.

 

[H1_Roller]

The odds of hitting any combination on any spin is the same regardless of what casino or how many are playing.

If the odds were better, then they would have to be better for everyone which would mean the RTP would be higher which it isn't. Working back from that, since the RTP is the same on all MG games, if you believed your odds of winning were better at a big casino, you would have to believe they were worse for someone else, which is nonsense.

Either way, casino size makes no difference.

Regarding the original question, my answer is exactly the same as Nifty's above.

KK

Thanks guys

 

[rockycatt]

in the first post about larger customer base casino verses a smaller one , i wonder if a scenario like a [casino like as a player could get going on a tare of luck] there for capturing a greater share of wins for a particular time frame .

and wonder if in order to hit a win is it better to play when more peeps are playing like on a weekend or on the first of the month when retired peeps get there retirement checks

altho its a random thing , the house edge isn't as i have been informed by volumes of experts so is the edge derived at the operating cost (as being operations par +profit )?

 

[PlexRep]

I'd have to say it doesn't make any difference on the slots. Where it might make a difference in what loyalty programs/bonuses they have to offer.

Well said and spot on. The payout of the games wont vary based on the customer base, but there are so many other factors worth considering.

This is probably worthy of it's own thread and perhaps even a poll.... Do you get better offers and service from the 'Big-Boys' or the smaller operations?

 

[ksech]

***Curiosity killed the cat question...***

When MG pulled out from the US market, did the way the games played change? Meaning, do you think the games started paying better/worse? Do you think it didn't change anything having less players at the casinos?
I know when I was tossed out of Royal Joker and switched to the US version at All slots, I thought (my opinion only) the chances of hitting a bonus feature took more spins to accomplish. We had limited games to pick from which I felt was lacking since I lost the majority of the games I played. I miss playing MG casinos, they were one of my favorites. I also enjoyed the different games on the Rival platform.

*sigh* I just miss it all...

 

[H1_Roller]

Well said and spot on. The payout of the games wont vary based on the customer base, but there are so many other factors worth considering.

This is probably worthy of it's own thread and perhaps even a poll.... Do you get better offers and service from the 'Big-Boys' or the smaller operations?

You should.

 

[KasinoKing]

When MG pulled out from the US market, did the way the games played change? Meaning, do you think the games started paying better/worse? Do you think it didn't change anything having less players at the casinos?

I realise it can be hard to comprehend, living in a VERY big country like you do...
But USA population = approx 310 million.
Rest of the world population = approx 6.5 BILLION.
Americans are not the only people on this planet who like to gamble you know!

To answer your question directly: No, I haven't noticed any difference in my game-play.

KK

 

[DiamondGeezer]

The random generator has no idea how many players are playing at any given casino or on the network as a hole. Luckily for us the RNG is a simple beast. All he is interested in is returning a random result to the server.

Ksech in answer to your question the games are playing out tons now the US players are out.

Only joking .

 

[ksech]

LMAO, I realize the US players only make up a small portion of the online gaming world (even though some of us like think we rule everything). And thank you for answering DG and KK!

I think the rest of the world will see an improvement once US players are temporarily banned from playing online. By banned I mean through means of depositing/withdrawing. But this is just my opinion and it really doesn't matter too much

and KK??? back at ya pal!

 

[Nate]

Realistically the odds of you hitting the jackpot remain the same irrelevant of the amount of players...

Theoretically speaking, a Game that is 'Popular' and receives more play, tends to dish out wins much more frequently because it moves through its cycle faster.

If a particular Casino has a bigger customer base, and a Game is VERY popular, It would make sense if you got more features more often. There would still be the same amount of losers and the game RTP would remain the same...

To put my point into perspective, imagine 100's - 1000's of players hammering away on 'Track and Field Mouse' everyday? The game RTP would remain the same; however, we may see the Jackpots quicker....

Nate

 

[H1_Roller]

To put my point into perspective, imagine 100's - 1000's of players hammering away on 'Track and Field Mouse' everyday? The game RTP would remain the same; however, we may see the Jackpots quicker....

Nate

Would it matter that the game you mentioned is an AWP, rather than a [video] slot?

 

[Nate]

Nope...

The reality is, you can't determine how much play a slot gets. Ladbrokes as an example could have hundreds of thousands of clients - most could be into sports betting.

At the end of the day, I do believe the more play a Slot gets, the more often (frequent) the hits are.. Losses are just as equal....I'm sure you understand my point?

Nate

 

[H1_Roller]

I understand Nate, but for the sake of argument let's go to one extreme -

Supposing I go to a casino and play tLOTR. But (highly unlikely but go with it) imagine I'm the only person who plays it at that casino (ever), would I STILL have as much chance of hitting those huge wins I endlessly post in the screen shots thread?

I sincerely doubt it, seeing as I'm the only one putting money into that particular game.
So then it could surely be argued that if there are thousands of players playing that game, and putting a fortune into it, I have more chance of hitting a big win?

Transfer this thinking over to the entire casino; a decent number of players (perhaps hundreds, maybe thousands) putting money in, or many more players (tens, hundreds of thousands)... Surely the latter would see the games more likely to pay out big?

 

[Mousey]

Perhaps a visit to the Wizard of Odds would help...

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[Nate]

My understanding is this:

Think of a bag of golf balls - each equal to a prize. There are millions of golf balls and there are thousands of players each picking a ball. Each person has the same odds of picking the golf ball with the highest award. The more players there are, the more likely the golf ball with the highest prize will be picked.

The less players there are, the more likely that the prize may not be won. Although the chance does exist irrelevant of the amount of players, the more players, the higher the probability someone might pick the winning ball... eventually...

Nate

I understand Nate, but for the sake of argument let's go to one extreme -

Supposing I go to a casino and play tLOTR. But (highly unlikely but go with it) imagine I'm the only person who plays it at that casino (ever), would I STILL have as much chance of hitting those huge wins I endlessly post in the screen shots thread?

I sincerely doubt it, seeing as I'm the only one putting money into that particular game.
So then it could surely be argued that if there are thousands of players playing that game, and putting a fortune into it, I have more chance of hitting a big win?

Transfer this thinking over to the entire casino; a decent number of players (perhaps hundreds, maybe thousands) putting money in, or many more players (tens, hundreds of thousands)... Surely the latter would see the games more likely to pay out big?

 

[H1_Roller]

OK. As long this is not mistaken; I'm not asking if the RTP increases with an increase in players. I'm fully aware that the RTP remains the same regardless.
Although the more I think about it, the more my head hurts.

 

[Nate]

OK. As long this is not mistaken; I'm not asking if the RTP increases with an increase in players. I'm fully aware that the RTP remains the same regardless.
Although the more I think about it, the more my head hurts.

Lol - that's why i said as far as i understand it... Hopefully a more knowledgeable member can chime in if i got it incorrect?

Nate

 

[KasinoKing]

I understand Nate, but for the sake of argument let's go to one extreme -

Supposing I go to a casino and play tLOTR. But (highly unlikely but go with it) imagine I'm the only person who plays it at that casino (ever), would I STILL have as much chance of hitting those huge wins I endlessly post in the screen shots thread?

I sincerely doubt it, seeing as I'm the only one putting money into that particular game.
So then it could surely be argued that if there are thousands of players playing that game, and putting a fortune into it, I have more chance of hitting a big win?

Sorry to say this, but I don't think Nate is explaining this very well.

I think what he is trying to say is that if you have 1000 people all playing a slot at the same time the big wins (or jackpots) will hit 10x more frequently then if there were only 100 people playing. But obviously each INDIVIDUAL person still has the same chance of getting these wins as they would if playing in isolation.

MG slots are random and the wins are random; you could hit a "big one" on any spin at any time, and equally you could have a run of 100 shite spins at any time too. It's all just luck.

KK

 

[DiamondGeezer]

As I understand it once you click 'spin' it all goes off to the MG server. And the MG server has no idea which casino you are from when it is generating the result, or even what coin size you are playing at (though I am sure some would disagree!). Then that result will get sent back to the casino you are playing at. So everyone is feeding into the same place.

Even if all the casinos were stand alone it would make no difference if the RNG process was the same. It's the fact the machines are random which is the thing.

With AWP's it does make a difference where you play. These machines are NOT random and they will only payout under a certain set of circumstances. If you have lost money into one at say Ladbrokes it will store and remember how much you have put into it. You are definitely better off sticking to one AWP in one casino than playing a bit at each in a lot of different casinos.

I only ever played Treasure Ireland so can only speak for that machine but it definitely did remember how much you had put in. So I don't know if they all work this way. VWM's your man for that info! You need to be careful with AWP's though since they are not random machines.

 

[quber]

The main thing to remember is that each spin on a machine is independant of any other spin, it has no memory of previous spins and no knowledge of future spins.

Think of it as standing in a room with 100 other people, you all toss a coin ten times, no matter what the other peoples results are they have no affect on your results, and no matter what your first nine results were it has no affect on your tenth throw.

The only place I can see a lot of players making a difference is with random jackpots as they will build to the payout mark quicker, although with more players there your chances of winning will diminish.

 

[4 of a kind]

The random number generator in a slot machine is just what the name indicates; it is a software program that generates numbers at random, from the list of numbers entered to represent each reel stop. The RNG generates more than a hundred sets of numbers every second, and it generates them continuously, even when the slot machine is idle. This is why each result is independent of every other result on a slot machine. The random generation of numbers is continuous, and no one sitting at a machine can predict which of the numbers the RNG will have generated at the instant you push the spin button.

When you push the spin button, the computer takes a snapshot of the numbers generated that instant by the RNG, and translates it into a reel result. An instant before you push the button, the RNG is generating an entirely different set of numbers; an instant later, yet another set. No one playing at a slot machine can predict the number it will choose next.

With today’s technology slot machines could have 60 stops, hundreds of stops, or as many as the programmer wishes, while staying within the odds limits set by the regulators wherever the software is coming from.

This is where it gets tricky playing online. No one actually knows what if any regulated odds limits could be online, other then what we’re being told through the grapevine.

The way I see it in a regulated market, regardless how many people are hammering away at any given slot machine at any given time makes no difference to anyone’s personal results.

The bottom line is the more people playing will just result to one confirmed fact…The more profits the casino makes

 

[gananana]

I read here a thread about different settings of slots RTP in RTG casinos. Isnt it possible for small casino to set RTP to 90%, while a big casino can afford 95% ? Then really you could win more in big casino.

 

[H1_Roller]

I read here a thread about different settings of slots RTP in RTG casinos. Isnt it possible for small casino to set RTP to 90%, while a big casino can afford 95% ? Then really you could win more in big casino.

I thought the RTP was set by the game makers themselves and isn't (or couldn't be) adjusted by individual casinos?
I could be wrong or misinformed (and I often am), but I'm sure a regular along the lines of Nifty, rainmaker, VWM, KK etc mentioned it.

I'm sure someone will confirm either way

 

[4 of a kind]

I thought the RTP was set by the game makers themselves and isn't (or couldn't be) adjusted by individual casinos?
I could be wrong or misinformed (and I often am), but I'm sure a regular along the lines of Nifty, rainmaker, VWM, KK etc mentioned it.

I'm sure someone will confirm either way

That's the problem with online gaming. Like I said in above post, nobody really knows the actual gaming regulations if any, that any online casino must abide by.

Of course RTP's should be set competitively, but what is the lowest they actually can legally be set at with online casinos? That's the million dollar question. Las Vegas, and Atlantic City's lowest allowed settings on slots are 84%.

Online your going to have to trust your personal action and the good ole he said, she said, he said dribble.

 

[H1_Roller]

That's the problem with online gaming. Like I said in above post, nobody really knows the actual gaming regulations if any, that any online casino must abide by.

Of course RTP's should be set competitively, but what is the lowest they actually can legally be set at with online casinos? That's the million dollar question. Las Vegas, and Atlantic City's lowest allowed settings on slots are 84%.

Online your going to have to trust your personal action and the good ole he said, she said, he said dribble.

So the casinos can indeed individually alter the games' payout?

 

[4 of a kind]

So the casinos can indeed individually alter the games' payout?

No one knows for confirmed fact. Through the years we've heard several different versions of how RTP's get adjusted.

Without knowing any regulations are being enforced by regulators how could one know for sure?

You can't even read about any game regulations that are suppose to be in place. I sent several online casino licensing bodies e-mails and snail mails about a year ago requesting this information, and didn't get a single response that they even received my mail.

In addition even if you were able to read about online gaming regulations, without enforcement in place and taking known action, the regulations would be similarly worth the value of the American dollar.

Just knowing for fact that known rogue online casino operators have been up and still running for over a decade, should give you an idea of how much regulation enforcement is actually be done. Just have a look at the rogue list here. We all know who they are, how come regulators don't?

 

[KasinoKing]

I thought the RTP was set by the game makers themselves and isn't (or couldn't be) adjusted by individual casinos?
I could be wrong or misinformed (and I often am), but I'm sure a regular along the lines of Nifty, rainmaker, VWM, KK etc mentioned it.

I'm sure someone will confirm either way

I agree with everything 4-of-a-kind said on this matter - so no need to repeat it.

All we do know for certain is that most RTG slots could be set to either 91%, 94%, 95% or 97.5%.
This info (listed on SlotBeaters.com) was taken from their published marketing materials which used to be online, but was all taken down about a year or two ago.
What we don't know for certain is by whom, and under what circumstances, the adjustments can be made.

A Meister member or two (Zoozie for sure, but I can't remember the other one) worked out the RTP on a few Microgaming slots too, by painstakingly plotting the reel layouts & calculating the figures. From that we know that Thunderstruck is on 95.05%.

KK

 

[Nate]

Anyone ever plot BDBA as far as you know KK?

Nate

 

[barx7]

worked out the RTP on a few Microgaming slots too, by painstakingly plotting the reel layouts
KK

Are the "reels themselves" really random on MG slots ? I always thought they were the same as some of Barcrests etc, the outcome from the RNG is a win amount or no win and the reels are just used to display the win

 

[H1_Roller]

Anyone ever plot BDBA as far as you know KK?

Nate

Well for you in particular Nate it's set at about, oooh.... 1000%

 

[KasinoKing]

Anyone ever plot BDBA as far as you know KK?
Nate

Not as far as I know.
I do have a few others which I never got round to publishing - but not that one.

Why don't you do it? It would only take a couple of days...

Are the "reels themselves" really random on MG slots ? I always thought they were the same as some of Barcrests etc, the outcome from the RNG is a win amount or no win and the reels are just used to display the win

On the Bonus Video slots, yes. All the evidence is that each reel randomly lands on any position every spin.
As mentioned above, we plotted some of the reels & calculated the RTP which ties in with that theory.
Here's one for an example:

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But if you are talking about Microgaming's AWPs (or Fruit Machines), then yes, they work more like the UK arcade slots, i.e. not truly random.

KK

 

[H1_Roller]

Well for you in particular Nate it's set at about, oooh.... 1000%

I obviously meant the RTP Nate, but I'm sure you knew that

 

[Nate]

Not as far as I know.
I do have a few others which I never got round to publishing - but not that one.

Why don't you do it? It would only take a couple of days...

Uhmmm thanks for the suggestion KK... but no thanks

I obviously meant the RTP Nate, but I'm sure you knew that

Yes... - I wish

Nate