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Playojo locked account

mulven said:
They pushed an update, which included a modified mathematic model. There was a mistake by a developer and it must have affected outcomes very very very significantly.

One of two things happened, R Franco found the issue internally and contacted Play Ojo
OR
Playojo was getting a very disproportionate number of wins on the slot and contacted R Franco. (Alternate version, another casino found this and contacted R Franco who then contacted all casinos/aggregates)

I lean towards outcomes being affected significantly brcause if the mistake has only increased the average return by a few % then it would have been harder to detect unless raised internally by R Franco. It would also be a bad move to void balances which were only slightly affected by a little bit extra RTP. Not worth the bad press/player reviews imo


They said malfunction in the email. The glitch mention was limited to the providers maths stuff. It's more likely that a mistake was made which borked the maths and calling it a glitch is a way of dressing it up nicely.

They also cited the term. The screenshot I uploaded was from going to the bottom of their website and clicking terms and conditions then.

Did they reinstate the initial balances? The proper thing to do would be to reset to the net position prior to playing the slot. If balances were voided and only spins given then I think initial deposits should be fought for but that's all.

The only situation in which I feel the players have been screwed over is if the mistake resulted in a minimal difference. I feel like this is less likely to have happened but still possible.


I already walked back my comments somewhat after being provided more context and looking into some analytics myself.

With further context of the type of malfunction (broken mathematics model), it makes it far less likely this involved bad actors.

Unless the maths were so borked it was extremely obvious, it would be hard to realise the slot was targetable.

I hope you understand that the only reason I have to be suspicious of these things is because people have tried to take advantage of forum and the PAB system while committing fraud so it's always a possibility and without the additional information, there seemed to be too many coincidences which made it look like something else.
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Fair enough i also should have replied to your other message. I read it after my reply. I get it. All good no harm no foul. I also appreciate all your insights you have added.
 
essuk said:
As stated Im not a lawyer but would assume this might be your best angle to explore. The statement re rtp doesnt make sense to me. Isnt rtp an outcome dependent on the parameters of the game rather than a programmed outcome. Quite often when rtp is quoted it will say the figure was determined from the results of x number of games. So how can you say it deviated from the rtp? And how could such a small sample be an altered rtp rather than variance? So what does a glitch that affected rtp actually mean? Do they actually mean that there was a glitch which affected the programming? If so what was this? What actually happended? Was it a deviation from the programmed code or a programming error? In my opinion the fact that rtp and expected rtp differ is not a malfunction ( again im not a lawyer ) . Isnt the quoted rtp an expected rather than a guaranteed outcome ? If actual rtp is lower than advertised/expected rtp can players demand a refund - I assume not.
I think its crucial to understand what this glitch was. Computers do glitch and suffer errors and deviations from programming. They work fine then suddenly have an error. Question is was it a deviation from programming in which case I would assume you dont have a leg to stand on ( again to be clear Im not a lawyer so may be wrong ) unless the term is deemed unfair or was it a programming error meaning the programme worked correctly its just they made a mistake. For that I think youd have to speak to a lawyer as to whether thats a mulfunction or not under the terms. Lets say you programme an rng to produce the results of rolling a dice. You programme it so that there are 6 possible results but a mulfunction means a 6 can never land. To me thats a malfunction. However if you make a mistake when you programme the rng such that only 1-5 are the possible results is that really a malfunction? The rng worked exactly as it was supposed to. What legally constitues a malfunction? These are questions for a legal expert. I have heard of an error where a £4000 jackpot machine was erroneously programmed to think it was a £500 jackpot machine and thus paid out the jackpot way too often. To me thats not a malfunction but a programming error but as Im not a lawyer I dont know how the law views it.
But I do think you need a fuller explanation of what the glitch supposedly was.

One thing you may want to look into is the free spins they have offered. If you accept and use these is that a full and final settlement? Dont know as Im not a lawyer but if it was me and I was considering challenging the outcome I would refuse the free spins.
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I am 100% refusing the free spins.. how can it be a malfunction if I won on like 10 games over a 12 hour period. I was up 160k and they took it all.. even money won on different games.
 
Lagibson said:
Fair enough i also should have replied to your other message. I read it after my reply. I get it. All good no harm no foul. I also appreciate all your insights you have added.
Click to expand...
All good.

I am curious to what stakes people were playing, I didn't mention it in my last post because I forgot but the fact someone won 160K does make it seem quite likely the new maths model was very borked rather than slightly.

EDIT:

I've also just seen bubbamarco's introduction thread in which they describe that they couldn't stop winning and only stopped because the game got removed. Whilst that can happen naturally for very lucky periods, that does seem to indicate a significant issue with the modified model. I haven't looked into the game or it's mechanics but it's very plausible that a single change to something such as the chance of a certain thing happening can have a huge overall effect.
 
Last edited:
mulven said:
They pushed an update, which included a modified mathematic model. There was a mistake by a developer and it must have affected outcomes very very very significantly.

One of two things happened, R Franco found the issue internally and contacted Play Ojo
OR
Playojo was getting a very disproportionate number of wins on the slot and contacted R Franco. (Alternate version, another casino found this and contacted R Franco who then contacted all casinos/aggregates)

I lean towards outcomes being affected significantly brcause if the mistake has only increased the average return by a few % then it would have been harder to detect unless raised internally by R Franco. It would also be a bad move to void balances which were only slightly affected by a little bit extra RTP. Not worth the bad press/player reviews imo


They said malfunction in the email. The glitch mention was limited to the providers maths stuff. It's more likely that a mistake was made which borked the maths and calling it a glitch is a way of dressing it up nicely.

They also cited the term. The screenshot I uploaded was from going to the bottom of their website and clicking terms and conditions then.

Did they reinstate the initial balances? The proper thing to do would be to reset to the net position prior to playing the slot. If balances were voided and only spins given then I think initial deposits should be fought for but that's all.

The only situation in which I feel the players have been screwed over is if the mistake resulted in a minimal difference. I feel like this is less likely to have happened but still possible.


I already walked back my comments somewhat after being provided more context and looking into some analytics myself.

With further context of the type of malfunction (broken mathematics model), it makes it far less likely this involved bad actors.

Unless the maths were so borked it was extremely obvious, it would be hard to realise the slot was targetable.

I hope you understand that the only reason I have to be suspicious of these things is because people have tried to take advantage of forum and the PAB system while committing fraud so it's always a possibility and without the additional information, there seemed to be too many coincidences which made it look like something else.
Click to expand...
My poor brain is trying to comprehend how people can even use a forum like this and commit fraud so that goes to show my level of expertise 🙈
mulven said:
All good.

I am curious to what stakes people were playing, I didn't mention it in my last post because I forgot but the fact someone won 160K does make it seem quite likely the new maths model was very borked rather than slightly.
Click to expand...
I was doing 5 and took a brave jump to 10 then an even braver jump to 15. I don't ever bet that high just not how I play at all. In the past when I've bet as high as 10 it was a couple spins because I was doing well but I just cannot fathom betting that much. But when I had a good win at 10 and took a jump up and did again I got brave especially since I was at 5500 when I jumped up In my bet. Easier to bet higher a couple times when you have a large credit showing up.
 
mulven said:
All good.

I am curious to what stakes people were playing, I didn't mention it in my last post because I forgot but the fact someone won 160K does make it seem quite likely the new maths model was very borked rather than slightly.
Click to expand...
I stayed at 1 and moved up to 5 at one point. I never had any big big wins. Just a few decent bonus rounds. I never got any like wow this bonus is out of control just average bonus wins for the bet placed in my opinion. I had bonus rounds that sucked as well lol.
 
mulven said:
All good.

I am curious to what stakes people were playing, I didn't mention it in my last post because I forgot but the fact someone won 160K does make it seem quite likely the new maths model was very borked rather than slightly.
Click to expand...
Ya i also agree with the 160k. If i hit that i would just know ok this is not right.
 
jess794 said:
Honestly, same 😂 but I totally get the skepticism now. I will throw $20 in when I have it kind of deal. This was so huge for me. I'm just still so bummed out about this.
Click to expand...
It's common for people to impersonate others to make gambling accounts (with and without consent depending on the situation) and as that person, they would utilise a casinomeister account and it's complaint system when dealing with an issue such as a confiscation at a casino.

These things are meant for honest players. Fortunately, as far as PABs go, the casinomeister team can usually sniff out if the player is being less than honest.
 
Lagibson said:
I stayed at 1 and moved up to 5 at one point. I never had any big big wins. Just a few decent bonus rounds. I never got any like wow this bonus is out of control just average bonus wins for the bet placed in my opinion. I had bonus rounds that sucked as well lol.
Click to expand...
Same. Some rounds I won like $40 and one round I won $64k. They were all over the place.
 
Lagibson said:
I stayed at 1 and moved up to 5 at one point. I never had any big big wins. Just a few decent bonus rounds. I never got any like wow this bonus is out of control just average bonus wins for the bet placed in my opinion. I had bonus rounds that sucked as well lol.
Click to expand...
Oh yes same mine were all during the bonus rounds not just a single spin I guess I should clarify. To me i think winning anything larger than 20 on a spin would be bonus rounds but that's usually likely since I don't bet very high so I'm not going to win anything big on a single spin. I've had some other games occasionally win massive on a single spin with a low bet but it's so rare I can tell you in the 4.5 months I've been using playojo I've had it happen maybe 4 times and out of those 4 times it was the two same games. So average it out maybe once a month. Even then it's not ever been more than 300 or so and I get excited about that so the wins we all got from Treasure Keeper on bonus rounds had me brave enough to try higher. Looking over my play history it seemed entirely fine to me as well. There is enough spins where I got zero or not enough to cover my bet as well so getting such a good win on the bonus rounds and then having the next bonus give me crap wasn't making me think anything was wrong either. I truly thought I must have a horseshoe up my tush today and I kid you not I almost started bawling cause I don't win that big not on spins, bonus rounds, I just don't nor do i bet high enough to win that big either. So considering one of my higher than normal bets for shiz and giggles I won insane (what I classify insane) I truly thought I was getting good luck for once in my life.

Look at us all now !!
 
mulven said:
It's common for people to impersonate others to make gambling accounts (with and without consent depending on the situation) and as that person, they would utilise a casinomeister account and it's complaint system when dealing with an issue such as a confiscation at a casino.

These things are meant for honest players. Fortunately, as far as PABs go, the casinomeister team can usually sniff out if the player is being less than honest.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the explanation!

I dont understand how scammers and fraudsters find the time to do that kind of thing. Like the effort do these people really have nothing else to do with their time? Like ya I'm not exactly busy the last couple days as I'm off work right now but generally between my shift work, 3 kids, all 3 kids are in hockey which sometimes has us going 3 different directions for games and tournaments plus just life in general I cannot fathom having the time and energy to go to those lengths to scam or fraud money. Like do they really not have families, kids, homes to care for, nothing, when do they eat and do their dishes? I just cannot fathom it being as busy as I am most of the time. It's entirely coincidence that I've had the spare time the last 3 days to even be on and responding between other things like the two kids two different places for games yesterday.
 
Lagibson said:
Wow i had no intent on being accused on here. I was simply playing a game that showed up as hot early one day. I had no idea there was any issues. I played, won, left, played other games and so on. It is what it is i thought mabee once in my life i got lucky and won some money but i was wrong. As for joining here i was just desperate to find answers after my account was locked and was looking for people to talk to about it and see if anyone else had info. Nothing more than that.
Click to expand...
Ya same!!! I have screen shots and didn't know it was glitching. I won a total of 9200. To have an earlier post accuse us of scamming is ridiculous. I came on here to see if I could find some info that would help me collect my winnings. Not be attacked by a no nothing.
 
jess794 said:
Dude, I don't like being accused of crap by a random stranger on the internet. I think your BS detector is broken. I have screen shots. If you read all the posts you would have seen that. The game was "new" on Play Ojo and showed up in the hot list. Which is I'm assuming why we all were playing.

To be fair, I feel like we all created an account here because we had literally 0 answers from them aside from the BS "standard verification" and if you search Play Ojo issues this is one of the only forums where people seemed to be getting assistance.

Aside from hitting a couple big bonus' I really didn't think anything was off about the game. I would lose, then hit a jackpot.

But, ultimately think what you want.
Click to expand...
Ya his bullshit detector is more screwed up then playojo is. I came on to get some help and I see this fool.
 
jimmy switz said:
I am 100% refusing the free spins.. how can it be a malfunction if I won on like 10 games over a 12 hour period. I was up 160k and they took it all.. even money won on different games.
Click to expand...
Im in the same boat. I played over 12 hrs. I wasn't winning it all in one spin . I don't want free spins I want what I'm owed. Play ojo is officially a scam to me now
 
Lagibson said:
Ya i also agree with the 160k. If i hit that i would just know ok this is not right.
Click to expand...
It was over a 12 hour period through multiple games. Likely thousands of spins.. some bonus rounds I won $36 others I won3-9k the way that game is set up you could have infinite free spins
 
jimmy switz said:
I am 100% refusing the free spins.. how can it be a malfunction if I won on like 10 games over a 12 hour period. I was up 160k and they took it all.. even money won on different games.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately if that money was won with winnings from the "broken" game then it's within the scope of their terms.

They technically don't need to but I think it would be good if they could come out and go onto more detail on just how borked the slot became due to the update. As I've said previous if it was a minor increase in returns above what it should have been then it's quite unfair to penalise even though they can within their terms.

I would agree that a few free spins (unless high bet size) is a bad response, especially if deposits weren't reinstated.
 
mulven said:
Unfortunately if that money was won with winnings from the "broken" game then it's within the scope of their terms.

They technically don't need to but I think it would be good if they could come out and go onto more detail on just how borked the slot became due to the update. As I've said previous if it was a minor increase in returns above what it should have been then it's quite unfair to penalise even though they can within their terms.

I would agree that a few free spins (unless high bet size) is a bad response, especially if deposits weren't reinstated.
Click to expand...
I had enough of my own money on ojo to place the bet I won with on other games..
 
mulven said:
Unfortunately if that money was won with winnings from the "broken" game then it's within the scope of their terms.

They technically don't need to but I think it would be good if they could come out and go onto more detail on just how borked the slot became due to the update. As I've said previous if it was a minor increase in returns above what it should have been then it's quite unfair to penalise even though they can within their terms.

I would agree that a few free spins (unless high bet size) is a bad response, especially if deposits weren't reinstated.
Click to expand...
Do they have to report this issue to any regulatory authorities? I am unsure just a thought i had.
 

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