PlayHub Casino - accusing me of fraud on slots?

[Harry_BKK]

Mack - thats another thing I don't fully understand - they will toss the accusation around about me somehow "cheating" the slots... but these are their own slots that they host and surely, audit - are they then indirectly admitting their slots aren't safe and are able to be hacked somehow?

I will take this as far as I need to in terms of a resolution so contacting the slots software company is not something I'll rule out.

They are not their own slots. They only have a simple API connecting to game servers at the providers, e.g. Chilli Pop goes to Betsoft.

The slot provider is just that, providing a service. They have no connection to the casino, nor are they interested in getting involved in player/casino disputes. If the game is faulty, then it is a different story.

 

[Hamster 100]

They are not their own slots. They only have a simple API connecting to game servers at the providers, e.g. Chilli Pop goes to Betsoft.

The slot provider is just that, providing a service. They have no connection to the casino, nor are they interested in getting involved in player/casino disputes. If the game is faulty, then it is a different story.

I meant mean, surely they have the responsibility instead of the player for the auditing of the slots etc, instead of trying to tell me its impossible for me to win in the way I did.. I have no control over how the feature pays out. I am not making much sense here but I know what I mean honestly!

 

[Harry_BKK]

I meant mean, surely they have the responsibility instead of the player for the auditing of the slots etc, instead of trying to tell me its impossible for me to win in the way I did.. I have no control over how the feature pays out. I am not making much sense here but I know what I mean honestly!

They are just trying to find a way not to pay you and close your account. These are template emails these casinos are sending out to hundreds and thousands of players.

It doesn't really matter what they claim in the email. Should you be able to somehow clear one part, they will come up with something else.

Sorry but I have not heard once in years and years for such a case to end well for the player. They will go as far as closing the casino and reopen under e.g. PlayH Casino. It doesn't matter to them. They pay up to 60% commission, so they will always find affiliates who do not care for players that will promote them and get them the traffic they need.

 

[mack341]

Are you naive or just kind-hearted mate?

The legal jurisdiction applying to the casino is Curacao, good luck getting anything out of there!

You do know that some game providers have two names, one for MGA/UKGC and one for "grey markets". Same games just different names and graphics. It would be the easiest to circumvent.

BTW, MGA is asking casinos that want an MGA licence to list only game suppliers who also have an MGA licence. So something like that is already happening, but how far can a regulator go before it becomes communism-style?

If the scammes are routeing the money back into the EU area via cyprus it's something that shoudn't be going on especially with all the laws and regulations the EU seem to have and love, and yet this backdoor is available and easily used?

I mentioned sister firms and shell companies, Dunover said this slot maker is linked to pragmatic iirc, so there is a way in there for MGA/ukgc to route out the scam casinos from using slots made by household names, if the political will/direction is there it can be done via law, and then playhub's of this world would have to use inhouse made slots and servers.

I don't see that as naive or kind hearted, unless you are saying the whole system is crooked, the ukgc/mga/EU etc.. and they will turn a blind eye and not lift a finger to try and stop the curacao corruption?

the way in is via the slot makers, the ukgc/ mga and EU have a lot of power and commercial control over these if they wanted to use it...

edit: ^ I got that wrong regarding a link between pragmatic and betsoft

 

[Harry_BKK]

If the scammes are routeing the money back into the EU area via cyprus it's something that shoudn't be going on especially with all the laws and regulations the EU seem to have and love, and yet this backdoor is available and easily used?

I mentioned sister firms and shell companies, Dunover said this slot maker is linked to pragmatic iirc, so there is a way in there for MGA/ukgc to route out the scam casinos from using slots made by household names, if the political will/direction is there it can be done via law, and then playhub's of this world would have to use inhouse made slots and servers.

I don't see that as naive or kind hearted, unless you are saying the whole system is crooked, the ukgc/mga/EU etc.. and they will turn a blind eye and not lift a finger to try and stop the curacao corruption?

the way in is via the slot makers, the ukgc/ mga and EU have a lot of power and commercial control over these if they wanted to use it...

I meant naive or kind-hearted because you seemed to be hoping to find some honest element in this malarkey. This is a stone-cold business with the proceeds going to parts of the world you don't want to know. It is a cash cow for certain groups, to put it mildly.

Betsoft is not connected to Pragmatic. Pragmatic used to be Topgame which was probably the most rogue games provider you could ever find and they were also running the casinos to collect the double-dip profits. Apparently, the old owner is out, which some doubt and some believe. It is not very clear and extremely tough to find anything definite.

Prove the corruption mate! I will bow to you if you can. They cover their backs in all possible directions. And if they get really caught out, then they just close shop and open a new post box company.

 

[mack341]

I meant naive or kind-hearted because you seemed to be hoping to find some honest element in this malarkey. This is a stone-cold business with the proceeds going to parts of the world you don't want to know. It is a cash cow for certain groups, to put it mildly.

Betsoft is not connected to Pragmatic. Pragmatic used to be Topgame which was probably the most rogue games provider you could ever find and they were also running the casinos to collect the double-dip profits. Apparently, the old owner is out, which some doubt and some believe. It is not very clear and extremely tough to find anything definite.

Prove the corruption mate! I will bow to you if you can. They cover their backs in all possible directions. And if they get really caught out, then they just close shop and open a new post box company.

Yeah, I realise it could become complex, but that's never stopped the ukgc before, they bang on about money laundering and keeping crime out, but some of the big slot makers it would seem are assisting scammers to provide a gambling website product, should they be able to do this scot-free and still serve the uk market?

I'd love somebody to ask the ukgc just about this, if they replied 'it would be too complex' I'd think the political will is not there to confront it.

Also Just how much drug and people/sex trafficking money is getting washed through online casinos in unlicensed jurisdictions I wonder...too dangerous for anyone to investigate this closely though

 

[dunover]

Another sister site is Bet Swagger, we had recently a case which sounds awfully similar to yours.

PAB in progress.

Hi there

Ah yes...

Outdated URL (Invalid)

 

[mack341]

Ah yes...

Outdated URL (Invalid)

Just reading Leon Twatski's bio on that site

 

[Hamster 100]

A polite request for an update today resulted in being told I will be contacted again when the relevant department has completed it's "checks". Absolutely no idea of a time frame given.

 

[Jono777]

...also very typical stalling tactic

 

[colinsunderland]

EDIT - Chilli Pop, a Betsoft slot. There's a surprise. Like their E.European friends Pragmatic, alas they ain't fussy as to whom they provide their slots and allow them to be used by people who take unlicensed deposits to play them.

Pragmatic who Dan works for allow their games to be used on sites not licensed in the UK but accepting UK players?

 

[dunover]

Pragmatic who Dan works for allow their games to be used on sites not licensed in the UK but accepting UK players?

Yes, they appear at numerous sites that have taken unlicensed deposits. Probably down to the aggregator.

They tend to appear alongside Wazdan games.

 

[colinsunderland]

Yes, they appear at numerous sites that have taken unlicensed deposits. Probably down to the aggregator.

They tend to appear alongside Wazdan games.

In which case it begs the question, why are they being promoted on here ffs.
Quite easy to put geoblocking in place at game server level.

 

[neon claws]

In which case it begs the question, why are they being promoted on here ffs.
Quite easy to put geoblocking in place at game server level.

Perhaps because not everyone believes only certain countries should be allowed to gamble online?

 

[colinsunderland]

Perhaps because not everyone believes only certain countries should be allowed to gamble online?

The UK are allowed to gamble online, what point are you trying to make?
If casinos that aren't licensed in the UK are rouged for accepting UK players, then why shouldn't software providers be subject to the same process?

 

[neon claws]

The UK are allowed to gamble online, what point are you trying to make?
If casinos that aren't licensed in the UK are rouged for accepting UK players, then why shouldn't software providers be subject to the same process?

You're talking to someone who has to play at rogue casinos because their government is in the pocket of the pubs, clubs and casinos.

The point I am trying to make is it's very easy to decry these operations until you need them thanks to nanny state policies.

 

[colinsunderland]

You're talking to someone who has to play at rogue casinos because their government is in the pocket of the pubs, clubs and casinos.

The point I am trying to make is it's very easy to decry these operations until you need them thanks to nanny state policies.

But I'm specifically talking about the UK market. Affiliates are rightly condemned for promoting these casinos that take gamstop excluded players, the casinos are put into the pit for taking deposits from UK players, yet a software provider that seemingly makes money from these excluded players is allowed to promote themselves on here.

 

[Hamster 100]

Every day I wake up I am feeling increasingly depressed by this whole situation. I keep praying for a miracle that it will somehow turn out well.... but I am so powerless until they see fit to 'complete their investigation' I'm 97% resigned to accept that it won't turn out well. Psychologically having that kind of money put under your nose and whisked away to nothingness when you're playing honest, fair and square games with your own money is pretty traumatic.

 

[neon claws]

Every day I wake up I am feeling increasingly depressed by this whole situation. I keep praying for a miracle that it will somehow turn out well.... but I am so powerless until they see fit to 'complete their investigation' I'm 97% resigned to accept that it won't turn out well. Psychologically having that kind of money put under your nose and whisked away to nothingness when you're playing honest, fair and square games with your own money is pretty traumatic.

It could just be a stalling tactic, hoping you'll reverse the winnings. Just stay cool until they've made a decision and go from there.

 

[Hamster 100]

Thanks @neon claws. I will try. I can't reverse as my whole account is banned/locked out.

 

[Lobo]

I wish you good luck, OP!
Keep up the pressure and don't give up. At this stage; Do not settle for anything less than what is owed to you. Do not try to make any deal with them.
Good luck!

 

[Hamster 100]

I wish you good luck, OP!
Keep up the pressure and don't give up. At this stage; Do not settle for anything less than what is owed to you. Do not try to make any deal with them.
Good luck!

Thanks so much Lobo.... I won't back down... but I am worried that they will get away with this due to me having nowhere to turn.. I will certainly PAB though when it gets to that stage... this is way too much money to just say "oh well" to.

 

[Harry_BKK]

@Hamster 100 Check your PMs.

Hope it helps and you get paid!

 

[Hamster 100]

Thanks Harry!

 

[Hamster 100]

Little update. I provisionally emailed the Curacao-egaming complaints email address just to see what kind of response I'd get from them, if any. I today received a response from them asking for full details of this issue.

Promising sign? The lack of timescale provided by PlayHub for their 'investigation' is why I'm jumping all over it and won't let it lie - if they had said we will come back to you within 14 days, I would let that time elapse, but the lack of time frame is just adding extra alarm bells. I have now submitted full details to Curacao so lets see...

 

[Harry_BKK]

IMO, the verdict won't bother PlayHub, no matter if it is for or against them. I have yet to see a case where Curacao found for the player and the casino then coughed up.

 

[Hamster 100]

That's not good news @Harry_BKK

 

[Harry_BKK]

That's not good news @Harry_BKK

Did you sign up via an affiliate site? If yes, then maybe try to approach them for help. Can't hurt.

They have direct contact at the casino through the Affiliate Manager or the like.

 

[Hamster 100]

Did you sign up via an affiliate site? If yes, then maybe try to approach them for help. Can't hurt.

They have direct contact at the casino through the Affiliate Manager or the like.

No, directly.

 

[Lobo]

Who owns PlayHub?
List all contact information of companies, who (name of person(s) is in charge of that company etc etc.
Then you can try contact them directly + the companies (scammers) will get their names in the Google searches which can upper the pressure to have this resolved.

If they start to see that loss of business and reputation might exceed the amount owed to you, that can do some kind of wonders. (I was about to say a joke about Casumo regarding this, but I'll hold my fart in)

 

[Slottery]

Without reading whole thread in detail, if they are checking something related to gameplay etc... they most probably are escalating it to game provider so especially when there is 3rd party included, it's just mission impossible to give exact timeframe. Waiting for now is pretty much all you can do and if getting unfair decision, then complain about it but i would wait until you get their reply.

It shouldn't take many weeks, sometimes provider getting back to single query can be bit slow and impossible for casino to estimate but would give it some time. Claiming complaint don't have any expiration times which would be in near future so your complaint is as valid next week what is now.

 

[Slottery]

Who owns PlayHub?
List all contact information of companies, who (name of person(s) is in charge of that company etc etc.
Then you can try contact them directly + the scammers will get their names in the Google searches which can upper the pressure.

Have you ever tried this successfully? I know that some publicly listed companies who directors contact details are publicly available do get certain amount of player feedback but don't know any CEO or other C level directors who would really answer to any emails as they have other people in company who get paid for replying players

 

[samdog21]

How you would ever deposit that kind of money in the banana republic, was first big mistake. Very hard for casinomeister to help from there. Most of casinos out of curacao are shady crooks. There are only a couple, bitzstarz being one that is accredited here.

 

[dunover]

Every day I wake up I am feeling increasingly depressed by this whole situation. I keep praying for a miracle that it will somehow turn out well.... but I am so powerless until they see fit to 'complete their investigation' I'm 97% resigned to accept that it won't turn out well. Psychologically having that kind of money put under your nose and whisked away to nothingness when you're playing honest, fair and square games with your own money is pretty traumatic.

Make that 100% and you'll then grasp the reality of the situation. Bent casino, bent jurisdiction, bent 'license'. Sorry mate.

 

[chiya]

Why would you deposit £450 at a Curacao licensed casino :axeman2::axeman2::axeman2:there are so many other reputable casinos available which have a uk license unless your on gamstop i am struggling to understand why

Two words:

Feature buys

Did you forget that UK has banned feature buys? If a player wants to do feature buys then it is no wonder they seek casinos that take UK players but do not have a license. And there are some casinos like that, that actually pay. This one clearly, isn't one of them.

 

[Hamster 100]

Who owns PlayHub?
List all contact information of companies, who (name of person(s) is in charge of that company etc etc.
Then you can try contact them directly + the companies (scammers) will get their names in the Google searches which can upper the pressure to have this resolved.

If they start to see that loss of business and reputation might exceed the amount owed to you, that can do some kind of wonders. (I was about to say a joke about Casumo regarding this, but I'll hold my fart in)

All I know is they are owned by uSoft Gaming

Dr. M.J. Hugenholtzweg z/n
Curaçao
Email: [email protected]
Phone: +1 (855) USOFT 80
Fax: +1 (855) USOFT 80

And they are licensed by Curacao. I can't find a single NAME of anyone to deal with apart from who I have dealt with in support - one William Dornat.

 

[Hamster 100]

Two words:

Feature buys

Did you forget that UK has banned feature buys? If a player wants to do feature buys then it is no wonder they seek casinos that take UK players but do not have a license. And there are some casinos like that, that actually pay. This one clearly, isn't one of them.

Yes & I enjoy Feature Buys so much, this was what I was consistently doing during my play.

 

[Slottery]

Don't stress, relax and wait their reply for little why and start then your complaints if not happy with their answers. You don't have any shortcut to get everything magically sorted today, if they are willing to check your gameplay with providers, it does take some time and is impossible to give timeframe as it's in providers hands.

If not hearing anything in next two weeks, start to claim your complaints but getting more stress and higher blood pressure by panicking now, don't help at all for your health or outcome of this situation, being patient makes better for you.

Also good to have time to think are bonus buys so important that you want to play in Curacao under their consumer protection instead of UK.

 

[Harry_BKK]

Don't stress, relax and wait their reply for little why and start then your complaints if not happy with their answers. You don't have any shortcut to get everything magically sorted today, if they are willing to check your gameplay with providers, it does take some time and is impossible to give timeframe as it's in providers hands.

If not hearing anything in next two weeks, start to claim your complaints but getting more stress and higher blood pressure by panicking now, don't help at all for your health or outcome of this situation, being patient makes better for you.

Also good to have time to think are bonus buys so important that you want to play in Curacao under their consumer protection instead of UK.

FYI, Pornhub was a major shareholder when they first launched the casino. They decided to get out pretty quickly.

Usoftgaming then renamed the casino into PlayHub Casino and also opened PH Casino and BetSwagger. You can google and see how many complaints you can find for non-payment with exactly the same storyline as the OP. And it is always when the amount is large. Typical rogue behaviour, pay the small change and confiscate the big wins.

 

[Hamster 100]

I joined up taking some comfort in the fact that they were linked to someone as large as Porn Hub. Had no idea they no longer were linked.

 

[Slottery]

FYI, Pornhub was a major shareholder when they first launched the casino. They decided to get out pretty quickly.

Usoftgaming then renamed the casino into PlayHub Casino and also opened PH Casino and BetSwagger. You can google and see how many complaints you can find for non-payment with exactly the same storyline as the OP. And it is always when the amount is large. Typical rogue behaviour, pay the small change and confiscate the big wins.

Would still give them fair two weeks or something if they willing to complete any gameplay checks. Not that huge amount that would be biggest miracle to get paid but wouldn't yet take loan against that

 

[dunover]

All I know is they are owned by uSoft Gaming

Dr. M.J. Hugenholtzweg z/n
Curaçao
Email: [email protected]
Phone: +1 (855) USOFT 80
Fax: +1 (855) USOFT 80

And they are licensed by Curacao. I can't find a single NAME of anyone to deal with apart from who I have dealt with in support - one William Dornat.

Yes, that's the address linked with 1668/JAZ scam casinos. Only they're getting wise to the fact that amongst other we at CM have publicized the fact people shouldn't play at sites where they see the devil's number 1668/JAZ, so they omit it from their casinos nowadays.

 

[Hamster 100]

Hard to believe they can get away with a scam on such a gigantic level. I am absolutely dumbfounded. And feel very naive.

 

[Harry_BKK]

Would still give them fair two weeks or something if they willing to complete any gameplay checks. Not that huge amount that would be biggest miracle to get paid but wouldn't yet take loan against that

OK. I did some research the other day (you can see my post on page 1 or 2 of this thread) and one of the main people is director/CEO/major shareholder in dozens of active and inactive companies, not just in Cyprus. The absolute majority connected to online gambling and payment processing. I stopped at 71 as I didn't want to get any deeper into the matter.

I'll bet my last shirt that the "investigation trick" is just that, a trick to wear the OP out. He didn't win a progressive, neither have there been any reports of faulty games. They just claim that it is not possible to win over 50K from a GBP450 deposit.

Well, I won 23K from a mere EUR19 cashback at VS and got paid in minutes. Just sayin'

EDIT: The post in question is on page 3 - PlayHub Casino - accusing me of fraud on slots?

 

[Slottery]

OK. I did some research and one of the main people is director/CEO/major shareholder in dozens of active and inactive companies, not just in Cyprus. The absolute majority connected to online gambling and payment processing. I stopped at 71 as I didn't want to get any deeper into the matter.

I'll bet my last shirt the "investigation trick" is just that, a trick to wear the OP out. He didn't win a progressive, neither have there been any reports of faulty games. They just claim that it is not possible to win over 50K from a GBP450 deposit.

Well, I won 23K from 19 cashback at VS and got paid in minutes. Just sayin'

Very legit casinos checking gameplays before paying out some big wins (big that way that player been extremely lucky), that's why just said that give it that two weeks before starting panic mode, claim complaint and kiss good bye for money.

 

[Harry_BKK]

Very legit casinos checking gameplays before paying out some big wins (big that way that player been extremely lucky), that's why just said that give it that two weeks before starting panic mode, claim complaint and kiss good bye for money.

I don't think it is legit because no casino is checking if the games were faulty when someone loses 50K. Some casinos will have 100s of thousands in net revenue in a day, do they check if the games were faulty, because people lost so much?

What do you need to check? There are so many diagnostics built-in, any casino can analyze the gameplay in minutes. If it is anything like what Microgaming is offering casino operators, then they can nearly count the number of farts from a player during a session.

Two weeks, are they still using pigeon mail or horse couriers?

 

[thr0b]

Essentially, assume the money is gone. IF they pay you, let them do it. They may want to do it by a few instalments. Take every single instalment that they pay you as a bonus, and don't assume you'll see another instalment. And never, ever play there again.

 

[Hamster 100]

I don't think it is legit because no casino is checking if the games were faulty when someone loses 50K. Some casinos will have 100s of thousands in net revenue in a day, do they check if the games were faulty, because people lost so much?

What do you need to check? There are some many diagnostics built-in, any casino can analyze the gameplay in minutes. If it is anything like what Microgaming is offering casino operators, then casino operators can nearly count the farts of a player during a session.

Two weeks, are they still using pigeon mail or horse couriers?

Couldn't agree more and not prepared to rest on my laurels for this amount of legitimately won money.

 

[Hamster 100]

Essentially, assume the money is gone. IF they pay you, let them do it. They may want to do it by a few instalments. Take every single instalment that they pay you as a bonus, and don't assume you'll see another instalment. And never, ever play there again.

Had been working my way up the Swagger Levels to allow larger withdrawal amounts per month but for this sum, at my current Swagger Level when they banned me (mid range, "Gold" I think I was- the levels run from "Bronze" to "VIP"), I'd already be expecting at least a three month wait to receive full amount. Instalments absolutely fine.

 

[pinnit2014]

2 weeks to check gameplay?

What's that going to come back with - hey, we've just found out you clicked the touchpad with too much force, so, nope.