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playersclub and goldclub - resolved - player fraud

Discussion in 'Online Casino and Poker Complaints - old section' started by broyer, Sep 23, 2004.

    Sep 23, 2004
  1. broyer

    broyer Banned User

    Location:
    Israel
    I cashed out recently in goldclub and playersclub.

    In gold club about 2540$ was not paid and in players club 3250

    Look at this strange email I received, how dare they ???? not only they don't pay and violate their own laws they accuse me for breaking the Israeli law
    \
    Your casino account has been locked.



    Our system has detected a fraudulence gaming behavior with your account. You have abused our system and tried to manipulate the detection systems. You have therefore committed a crime according to Israeli law. You will be held liable for the complete loss in revenue in all the accounts used or related to your account.

    You account will remain closed and any winnings on all accounts will be null and void. All cash-ins will be cancelled.

    This decision has been made by the Casino management, Boss Media AB and Webdollar and is considered to be full and final.
    No correspondence will be entered into.


    Malin Amstיus
    WebDollar AB
    Financial Department


    I have no related accounts and I never used fraudlent measures as they accuse me I play there every month deposting 100 and receive 100 with no problem for more than a year
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2004
  2. Sep 23, 2004
  3. orenchik

    orenchik Banned User

    Location:
    Israel
    That is not a good news, they are so stupid with their emails.

    Playersclub owes me money too and I hope they won't have the same conclusion about me

    All I know is about myself that my account is not linked to anyone


    I think I found a link between all the accounts under investigation

    They all players who won thousands in Bossmedia casinos

    As I said before goldclub stopped the bonus because he has no more money (I am talking about the monthly) and now they don't pay thousands to players and maybe millions to players I don't know

    To the casinomeister : do you kow what is going on with them ? Do you know if they have proof delaying and not paying players ? why did they ask so many questions (Robot playing, enviorment and so on ) if they have sloid proof of fraud ???

    To broyer: Ask for their proof regarding your related accounts they claim you have , in which manner are they related ? same name address IP or what

    Playersclub owes me 3263$ and I have the feeling I am going to receive the same email
     
  4. Sep 23, 2004
  5. jerseyguy11

    jerseyguy11 Dormant account

    Location:
    new jersey
    If you are truly innocent then I feel very bad about this. Maybe bryan can help. This is very unfortunate for all israeli players and I think boss needs to make certain they are ONLY voiding winnings of those who did commit whatever fraud they are talking about. Any they really should supply more details and not just a letter that doesnt address exactly what fraud, when, etc.

    voiding all winnings for random israeli players becaue of recent events cannot be justified, if that is what is happening in this case (not 100% convinced it is).
     
  6. Sep 23, 2004
  7. caruso

    caruso Banned User - repetitive violations of 1.6 - troll

    Occupation:
    Casino apologist
    Location:
    England
    This is bullshit. The USER is accountable to his country's laws, not the CASINO. This isn't the first time I've seen this stroke attempt to be pulled. I've heard of casinos trying to void winnings or threaten players by invoking the potential illegality of online gambling in a given player's country - "if you make a fuss we'll report you..." etc etc. If you break your country's laws it is YOU who must answer for it to your law-enforcers - the casino has no technical right to take any action on your law-enforcers' behalf.

    Of course, the fact is they're just pissed off because you only ever play with the bonus and have now won a decent sum.
     
  8. Sep 23, 2004
  9. jerseyguy11

    jerseyguy11 Dormant account

    Location:
    new jersey
    yeah, i think this casino needs to supply proof this player(s) committed fraud and if they cannot they must pay out the winnings. Online casinos cannot be given such power than they can void winnings/account balances whenever they deem it. They really must have very strong proof to do this. And if they have a problem with israeli players, then boss should exclude them from playing and not retroactively impose this while a players has funds tied up in their hands.
     
  10. Sep 23, 2004
  11. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    Provided we have been given the FULL story:-
    Gold Club's T&C's say 'Residents of Israel are not permitted to register customer accounts at Gold Club Casino.'
    On the assumption these T&C's were the same when these guys signed up, it was a 50/50. They should not have signed up in the first place, but equally the casino should not have allowed them accounts - 'not permitted'
    Obviously they did permit them to open accounts, and were quite happy for them to deposit & play there, even if they were 'bonus hunters'. They unboubtedly lost sometimes, which was fair enough for the casino.
    But then when they got lucky & had a decent win, to turn around and throw this crap in their faces is nothing short of scandelous!
    These casino's should honour the winnings, even if they decide to close the account afterwards. If they don't, then they deserve all the bad publicity they can get!
     
  12. Sep 23, 2004
  13. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    Before we all jump onto the bandwagon "casinos = evil" "players = good" lest we forget that this may not be a simple situation of some bonus abusers from a certain country getting the shaft, but of a player that is opening multiple accounts.

    Now, how does a casino detect this? Here is an example; they get a swarm of players from country x who are playing some bonus and cashing it out after making one deposit and playing the minimum WR. Casino management checks out the accounts and lo and behold, most of these players play the same games, and exhibit the same playing patterns. Further, they use the same password even though they have different IPs - odd, eh?

    I'm not saying that this applies in this case, but I know for a fact that a "couple" of these players have been booted out of another casino for the same violation.
     
  14. Sep 23, 2004
  15. orenchik

    orenchik Banned User

    Location:
    Israel
    Let's talk about facts because I see the casinomeister is in the casino side at this matter

    Let's leave all the specullation

    I claim that I have pending 3250$ in playersclub after I played their invitation email for a weekly bonus of 50$, 200$ deposit 50$ bonus I reached 3250$ they don't pay

    I claim that I don't have more accounts in Playersclub

    The casino claim I am suspected to be a big or even the biggest fraud in the universe

    Now what we need is proof exactly as you say. Let them find an account with the same password and show it to me ! they have nothing and you know why because there is nothing .

    I sart to see what is happenning here poeple from Israel crashed their casinos by their winnings, they don't want to pay and admit thier own mistakes in the bonsues they invited the players and now not only they don't pay they accuse the players of being responsible for multiple accounts
     
  16. Sep 23, 2004
  17. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    I just gave an example on how some casinos spot player fraud. I didn't say that this applies to your particular case. I made this comment because you (collectively) should understand there are two sides of this coin. I'm not "siding" with anyone right now since I have not had the time to fully devote myself to this matter.
     
  18. Sep 23, 2004
  19. dadoni

    dadoni Banned User

    Location:
    Israel
    I am still waiting to Pharaohs casino to call after I answered all their questions

    till now silence
     
  20. Sep 24, 2004
  21. broyer

    broyer Banned User

    Location:
    Israel
    Respong to Kasinoking

    The term that Israeli players are not allowed to open an account is a new term from this week, it was mentioned first right after the email I receive of them refusing to pay without telling the reason

    Do you think I can sue webdollar by taking a domestic lawyer ?

    I really don't know what I should do it is a lot of money
     
  22. Sep 26, 2004
  23. Bongula

    Bongula Dormant account

    Occupation:
    computer
    Location:
    UK
    I think I should join too

    Hi
    I think I have the same problem with pharaohs casino.
    I made a cash in more then 3 weeks ago.
    and yesterday I sent them an email to see what is the problem, and what I got from them was - "
    With regards to your query your withdrawal is on held at the moment due to a random security check"
    at the begining I was not afraid, only regular security check, but now after I read this forum, I am very much afraid.
    it seems that I have been put in the "do not pay" list.
    even thou I did not get the threat email like the first writer here, I have a feeling now that I will get something soon.
    not becasue I did something wrong, cause I did not!.
    but becasue they just want to find a reason not to pay!.
    I think they are in finance problem, and they thought what to do, and decide that picking on Israel wil be a good idea.
    I believe there are some cheaters in Israel, like in every place, but if they will void all Israel accounts they will make them a lot of money, but not so much noise from the betting arena. so it was a great idea.
    so this is, I think, the reason why Israel was picked up as a victim.
    now, I dont really know what to do?
    should I wait for the threat email?
    should I send them anther email?
    one thing I know for sure, playing now at boss casinos is to throw money.
    and I think that all players, not only Israel players should stay away. I think they have money problems, and wonder who will be the next victim....
    BTW, if you wander, I played thier new power poker after I got a very big email promotion that they lunched a new power poker, and I am very much welcome to play. (maybe it was part of the scam, draw players, if they lose great, but if they win, we will just lock their accounts, I think it is a win win to the casino).
    so, I am waiting to see what will be next.
     
  24. Sep 26, 2004
  25. bagofmaggots

    bagofmaggots Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Dare Devil / Grave Robber
    Location:
    Earth
    Pharohs Casino

    If I were an Israeli I'm not so sure I would trust Pharaohs Casino with my money in the first place.
     
  26. Sep 27, 2004
  27. broyer

    broyer Banned User

    Location:
    Israel
    to the meister

    Do you care about the fact that thousands of $ were not paid to Israeli players for months and will not be paid

    It seems that you live with it pretty well

    Was it the same if they decide not to pay all american players ?

    Would you be more agressive with the casino then ?

    Is it a waste of time to pitch a bitch and complaint becuase you embrace these casinos ?
     
  28. Sep 27, 2004
  29. jpm

    jpm Dormant account

    Oh please! Don't play the discrimination card, its not going to fly here. I'm sure Bryan is giving it just as much effort as any other complaint and you owe him an apology for the implication.

    (BTW, the casinos did this to the entire country of Denmark long before they tried it with Israel)
     
  30. Sep 27, 2004
  31. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    If you think I'm hovering over my computer just waiting in anticipation for your fraudulant "complaints", I got news for you. I ain't.

    I couldn't give a flying rat's ass what country you come from if it's dealing with a jilted player. That was probably one of the stupidest things I've read from a poster in a long time.

    Banned 30 days for being a dumb ass.
     
  32. Sep 27, 2004
  33. Bongula

    Bongula Dormant account

    Occupation:
    computer
    Location:
    UK
    Sorry from Israel

    Bryan
    I believe broyer think he is represent Israel, but I can tell you he is not!!
    I feel bad about what he wrote before, and I am sorry about that.
    I think we all just feel sorry for him too, cause it is very hard to wake up every morning and understand you are so stupid!!
    if you will give me his name and address, I will kick his ass ;-)
    hope this will make you feel better about the Israely guys
     
  34. Sep 27, 2004
  35. Stanford

    Stanford Dormant account

    Location:
    USA
    Hi Bongula,

    Please keep us updated. I hope someone here can help.

    I think I am going to move away from Boss. There seems to be to much of an issue surrounding there ability to survive. While I don't give credance to such things normally, I have to when there own action suggest a reason for concern.

    This singling out of Israili players for confiscation is a big reason for concern.

    Stanford
     
  36. Sep 28, 2004
  37. nafanny29

    nafanny29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    financail adviser
    Location:
    London, England
    Israel

    I am curious why players from Israel are either not permitted to play at online casinos or are not eligable to receive a bonus.

    At nearly every casino I have signed up with the terms always say "Players from Israel are excluded from this bonus offer" or "Players from Israel are not permitted to open an account"

    Im assuming that Israel has more than its fair share of fraudulent players but I would have thought Eastern Europe are the leaders in this field (No offence anyone :D )
     
  38. Sep 28, 2004
  39. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    There is a high amount of fraud coming out of Israel right now. As if these people had nothing better else to do.

    This is a typical scenario:

    Casino X is operating at normal speed with the occasional Israeli signing up here and there. All of a sudden the casino gets hit with between 400-700 in one week most of whom are typing in the casino's URL, and not by clicking through someone's banner or link. Red flags go up right away.

    Sometimes it's easy to figure out it's fraud - accounts have the same passwords, the same credit card is being used, etc. And there are a number of other techniques that can pinpoint fraudulent activity. (unfortunately some of this takes a bit of digging).

    I'm not picking on Israelis, but I will have to admit that there are a couple of these a-holes who are branding the entire country "fraudulent players". The Danes were just bonus hunters :D
     

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