Player Responsibility vs Affiliate Marketing Responsibility

[Tengil]

I think both player and affiliate should certainly accept some of the responsibilty for not doing proper research and IMO both deserve some criticism. And you shouldn't lose sight of the fact that the rogue casino is ultimately the perpetrator. However, I think the ultimate responsibility is with the software provider who has chosen to licence their software to someone who is prepared to use it for fraudulent behaviour and subsequently turn a blind eye to their action$.

If the ambition is to remove the rogues from our industry then it makes sense to go to the source. Get RTG (in this instance) to accept their share of the responsibility to player welfare and the effects will trickle down to everyone's benefit. It would also go a long way to helping the credibility of the industry.

Agreed but would replace software providers with licensing jurisdictions. They could require that casino T&Cs are within the borders (correct word anyone?) of the countrys Consumer Affairs Act and that the casinos have the players money in segregated accounts.
And this should of course be followed up so that it doesnt just excist on paper a la Malta LGA.

 

[Simmo!]

Agreed but would replace software providers with licensing jurisdictions.

That crosed my mind but many of the rogues are in jurisdictions that a) couldn't care less and b) probably wouldn't consider this a priority.

 

[Tengil]

That crosed my mind but many of the rogues are in jurisdictions that a) couldn't care less and b) probably wouldn't consider this a priority.

The same sadly goes for software providers, i.e. couldnt care less. Okay WW and Crypto seems to be a bit different but the big providers RTG, MG and Playtech really doesnt seem to care.

 

[bb28]

WagerWitch, you keep comparing casino portals to a billboard, it's not a very good comparison for the following reasons. In most places in the world there are laws in place to protect consumers from false advertisement or bogus claims of let's say an ad claiming "you can lose 100 lbs in ten days". Granted the laws in place do not cover everything nor do they work very well, but yet we do have a measure of recourse if we have been ripped off. We can sue, we can complain, we can go before congress if we choose.

It's different here on the net and due to the nature of the internet being what it is, there is no governing body and people can pretty much advertise anything they like with very little fear of any recourse, so with that in mind, ethical webmasters should take on the responsibility to not rip people off be it a casino portal or a weight loss product. As I've said before, due to the seductive nature of gambling and the lack of protective measures in place, people can and do get ripped off. They really have no legal recourse, so the greater responsibility falls on the webmaster. Does this excuse consumers from not doing their research and choosing not to be gullible, no it doesn't, but yet what kind of person makes money from someone's else stupidity, is that someone you want to know and associate with? IMO, people like that are greedy and self serving and they value the dollar above and beyond their fellow man. Like it or not......taking the high road is an ethical and moral choice and in this case, I see the new player as the one is who is the most likely to get taken advantage of. If that were not the case, why would we see so many complaints here and this statement is repeated over and over. "Wish I had found this place before..."

Some affiliates don't take the time to learn about the business and ignorantly slap banners up thinking they are going to make a million dollars in their first year, yet there are others who damn well know what they are doing and they don't care, it's all about the money.

 

[maphesto]

the big providers RTG, MG and Playtech really doesnt seem to care.

But they should! Everytime I discover a new Playtech or RTG casino I have to check their T&C for withdrawal limitations and bonus rules. That`s not good.

At MG it`s better but still Nedplay haven`t payed all affs and players who have been waiting since nov. But they have received the latest software update(yesterday). MG doesn`t have a clue.

At Rival there are also some casinos who have bad bonus rules. Deposit 100$ and have a maximum cashout of 3 times the bonus when you have wagered bonus+deposit 30 times. Bonus money are removed before cashout.

I continue my path on the examples of rules the software provider can have:

3. All bonus rules have to be shown exactly at the place you accept the bonus.

4. Make sure that the player knows what documents he/she has to send in before deposit is made.

 

[Tengil]

But they should! Everytime I discover a new Playtech or RTG casino I have to check their T&C for withdrawal limitations and bonus rules. That`s not good.

At MG it`s better but still Nedplay haven`t payed all affs and players who have been waiting since nov. But they have received the latest software update(yesterday). MG doesn`t have a clue.

At Rival there are also some casinos who have bad bonus rules. Deposit 100$ and have a maximum cashout of 3 times the bonus when you have wagered bonus+deposit 30 times. Bonus money are removed before cashout.

I continue my path on the examples of rules the software provider can have:

3. All bonus rules have to be shown exactly at the place you accept the bonus.

4. Make sure that the player knows what documents he/she has to send in before deposit is made.

They dont have any incentives, as simple as that.

A company will act "ethical" if the customers demand it.

 

[Bencuri]

You have a good point there - about the getting paid... and the linking...

But I'm not so sure that I agree with you that the affiliate becomes part of the casino.

Like a billboard gets paid for the advertising space - I believe also the affiliate is paid for the advertising.

Kind of like the guy who wears the big clapboard sign around his neck for the local hot dog restaurant and walks down the corner...

He gets paid an hourly wage to display the sign and walk around the streets to bring people into the restaurant.

Would you BLAME this walking advertisement then - if you were to get salmonella poisoning?

[/B]

I think the guy you talk about here and the big affiliate sites are not the same. The guy in your example is more like a 'victim'. A regular worker in the hands of the big brother.

However the big sites cannot be seen as such 'victims' I think. I think they are more similar to some business rather than this poor worker you mention. And if we consider this, the picture changes a lot. Or just for better understanding: if the owners of the big affiliate sites should do the same job that you mention, so to hang around with such boards, I am sure they won't do it. Their positions are much more pleasant, they can control the full referring program from the comfort of their office or home. In this case I cannot think of them as poor guys, like the one you mention... So, if they have more comfort, let they look into more what they advertise! It is something like being a thief. If somebody is poor and steals from the shop to be able to feed his children, in a way it can be forgiven. But when the boss of the company is stealing money through corruption, or a politican, well, that may be forgiven much more harder. Simply because they had more chance to be honest than that poor guy. So on this base I don't think it is good to compare the affiliate site owners to those kind of advertiser kids you mention. They differ in several aspects.

 

[love2winalot]

Hiya: I am not an affiliate, but was one a long time ago, for Cptn Cooks Casino. It is only the affiliate responsibilty NOT to Lie, or Mislead.
Payout in 24hrs. But it actually takes a week or so.
No ID needed to deposit. But you need 4 picture ID's to withdraw.
and so on.

I will ask you all this. Here in Las Vegas, who is responsible, the Casino, or the Player? The lady sit's down at the BJ table, having never played before, and barly knowing the rules of the game. Just get to 21 or less. Dealer has a total of 16. She has a total of 15. "Oh, i am losing, i will take another card, "hit" please".

Does the Casino rep., ie the dealer, have the responsibilty to inform her she should not hit? or, should she have took a little time to learn how to play before playing for money?

I see people all the time at table games, who make a bet, and do not have a clue as to what they are doing. Hell, a lot of the time they dod not even bet the table Min, and the dealer has to tell them they need to bet more..........

I do not see a difference between clicking on a fancy flashing banner on the internet, and someone seing fancy flashing lights at the Casino, and walking in the door.

This is not the way it should be, BUT IT IS THE WAY THAT IT IS. I am sorry, but with all the information available today on the internet, and to decide to gamble on the internet, the PLAYER needs to use the tools that have been provided to them by Yahoo/Google/Ask, ect ect. There is simply no excuse not to.

 

[Bencuri]

Hiya: I am not an affiliate, but was one a long time ago, for Cptn Cooks Casino. It is only the affiliate responsibilty NOT to Lie, or Mislead.
Payout in 24hrs. But it actually takes a week or so.
No ID needed to deposit. But you need 4 picture ID's to withdraw.
and so on.

I will ask you all this. Here in Las Vegas, who is responsible, the Casino, or the Player? The lady sit's down at the BJ table, having never played before, and barly knowing the rules of the game. Just get to 21 or less. Dealer has a total of 16. She has a total of 15. "Oh, i am losing, i will take another card, "hit" please".

Does the Casino rep., ie the dealer, have the responsibilty to inform her she should not hit? or, should she have took a little time to learn how to play before playing for money?

I see people all the time at table games, who make a bet, and do not have a clue as to what they are doing. Hell, a lot of the time they dod not even bet the table Min, and the dealer has to tell them they need to bet more..........

I do not see a difference between clicking on a fancy flashing banner on the internet, and someone seing fancy flashing lights at the Casino, and walking in the door.

This is not the way it should be, BUT IT IS THE WAY THAT IT IS. I am sorry, but with all the information available today on the internet, and to decide to gamble on the internet, the PLAYER needs to use the tools that have been provided to them by Yahoo/Google/Ask, ect ect. There is simply no excuse not to.

Yes, but newcomers simply don't know how to protect themselves. And the problem is that the affiliate sites who promote the rogue places make use of this. They make their profit on the 'dumbness' of the newcomers (sorry for the strong words). They earn their money for keeping you as a sheep. Do you think it is good? It is called fooling.

Oh, and some interesting thing came to my mind: so you say it would be ridiculous if a dealer would warn a player when he falls into such situation in BJ you mention. Yes. However did you think of what they do in case of the opposite event? When a player has enough intelligence to play with such a strategy that starts exploiting the casino from its money? They fire those players. So yes, it would be ridicuolus to warn players about a loosing situation, but why do they fire players making lots of money then? If they don't mind making money from the players with poor intelligence, they shouldn't mind letting players with big intelligence to play. Else they can only be seen as places profiteering from the 'dumbness' of people, and not as places letting luck decide what happens. And that is not so good... This is called fooling.

 

[maphesto]

I do not see a difference between clicking on a fancy flashing banner on the internet, and someone seing fancy flashing lights at the Casino, and walking in the door.

You are correct in this tiny example.

But if you are fooled by the flashing lights outside the casino and goes in and buys chips the difference gets bigger.

To compare them you have to enlarge the picture:

Go in to the casino and buy chips for 50$. You get 150 automatically, it`s our welcome gift to you the nice and cute girl says. Nice, you think.

You go to the roulette table and are winning a 2000$ and decides to go home with your money.

You are still happy until they tell you that roulette is a forbidden game with the bonus money.
-Didn`t you see the sign behind the Black Jack dealer?

What I mean is that the online gambling is more complex than the ordinary casinos.

 

[Simmo!]

They make their profit on the 'dumbness' of the newcomers (sorry for the strong words). They earn their money for keeping you as a sheep. Do you think it is good? It is called fooling.

I'm sure a few do, but by and large I think it's ignorance or lazyness. When you go to affiliate sites and just see "This casino is the best", "This is amazing", "...the sun shines out of these guy's arses" you're mainly just seeing ad copy, lazy writing or text from someone who hasn't played there.

I think most players probably see this for what it is. Most, not all. The affiliate that does this suffers too though...if you have the audience captive, you want to send them somewhere that will make you a buck or two ongoing, not a clipjoint that will p!ss them off. They might think "woohoo I made $50 off each player" at Rogue Casino but if they'd sent them somewhere good, they'd probably be going "woohoo I made $500 off each player" in time.

If they are "fooling", then they are fooling themselves just as much.

 

[dominique]

First I'd like to clear up a misconception someone posted earlier in this thread:

It is not true that affiliates only make money when players lose.

There are several other payment methods for affiliates:

1. CPA pays a fixed amount for any player coming from the aff site.

2. Wager system - this works the same way Vegas works it's comps and all it's finances - not by win or lose but by the amount of wagering done. Win or lose is irrelevant here.

3. Percentage of deposit - again, a set fee and win or lose has no impact.

4. Media buys - many of the larger sites do this and win or lose is also irrelevant. Basically the casino pays a flat fee for advertising.

Now, I have watched this industry for years, and it seems to me that rogues are primarily advertised by novice affiliates who just don't know. There is a lot of information to take in and it just can't be done in a day or a week. Once the proper info is found, IMO the name of the game changes.

The very same thing holds true for players who patronize rogues - usually they are novices who don't know any better. Again, it may take some time to arrive at the places giving proper info. Once informed, the name of the game in this case changes also, imo.

Both of the above groups are cheated by rogues, rogues flourish on new affiliates and players alike. Both players and affiliates are cheated out of money. Both players and affiliates tend to leave the scene after such experiences. A few find their way here or to aff boards and vent.

Moving on to experienced players and affiliates. Why do some experienced players play at rogue places despite having been informed? I don't get it, you tell me. Probably greed - the big bonuses I assume.

Why do some experienced affiliates promote rogues? With some it is greed, maybe they struck a special deal. With some it is just plain negligence. Also, there are always rogue places approaching affiliates asking to be allowed to redeem themselves, saying they guarantee all player needs will be tended to immediately and disputes resolved asap and what not.

So who is responsible?

I think that depends on the specific situation.

Regardless of that, for both players and affiliates the old saying applies: "Caveat emptor" (Buyer beware)

You can't do anything online without due diligence. Unfortunately too many people learn that the hard way, and not just in gambling.

 

[BingoCindy]

Hiya: I am not an affiliate, but was one a long time ago, for Cptn Cooks Casino. It is only the affiliate responsibilty NOT to Lie, or Mislead.
Payout in 24hrs. But it actually takes a week or so.
No ID needed to deposit. But you need 4 picture ID's to withdraw.
and so on.

I will ask you all this. Here in Las Vegas, who is responsible, the Casino, or the Player? The lady sit's down at the BJ table, having never played before, and barly knowing the rules of the game. Just get to 21 or less. Dealer has a total of 16. She has a total of 15. "Oh, i am losing, i will take another card, "hit" please".

Does the Casino rep., ie the dealer, have the responsibilty to inform her she should not hit? or, should she have took a little time to learn how to play before playing for money?

I see people all the time at table games, who make a bet, and do not have a clue as to what they are doing. Hell, a lot of the time they dod not even bet the table Min, and the dealer has to tell them they need to bet more..........

I do not see a difference between clicking on a fancy flashing banner on the internet, and someone seing fancy flashing lights at the Casino, and walking in the door.

This is not the way it should be, BUT IT IS THE WAY THAT IT IS. I am sorry, but with all the information available today on the internet, and to decide to gamble on the internet, the PLAYER needs to use the tools that have been provided to them by Yahoo/Google/Ask, ect ect. There is simply no excuse not to.

Its a matter of choice of what you want to be responsible for and what you do. The Affiliate, Casino, Software Provider, ect can choose how they want to do business and what they represent and how they represent it. For the player especially the newer one, again, it is a matter of choice of making a blind decision or an educated one. Thanks to sites like CM and believe it or not, Wikipedia; there are tools out there to make smart choices to assist in becoming a smart player and have fun.
Cheers,
Cindy

 

[GamTrak]

Why do some experienced affiliates promote rogues? With some it is greed, maybe they struck a special deal. With some it is just plain negligence. Also, there are always rogue places approaching affiliates asking to be allowed to redeem themselves, saying they guarantee all player needs will be tended to immediately and disputes resolved asap and what not.

BINGO! That's what happened to me! I told my husband when I did the media buy that I had a 'bad' feeling, but due to several factors I made the deal, completed the deal and took my lumps for it!

BTW roanan, you need to 'man' up (if possible), give it a rest and leave it be!!! I've never done anything to you nor desire to go to war with you. I've had way bigger online battles then you can EVER produce & playing with you and others is like going back to grade school so I won't go there!

Bryan thanks for the kind words that you and others have made regarding meeting me & more importanly renaming the thread that had my brand in the title!

Gonna un-subscribe and let you guys carry on!

 

[nitro]

This is not the way it should be, BUT IT IS THE WAY THAT IT IS. I am sorry, but with all the information available today on the internet, and to decide to gamble on the internet, the PLAYER needs to use the tools that have been provided to them by Yahoo/Google/Ask, ect ect. There is simply no excuse not to.

There is only one slight problem with this argumentation: the casinos/affiliates aren't the cash cows for the gamblers - it's the other way round.

 

[LaurieJim]

I still say its the players responsibility to do his own homework on a casino he wishes to play at, there are so many tools out there and forums.

I have 3 affiliates that i have signed up thru, Robwin, Bingot, Daera and trust me if i didnt trust their judgement 99.9% when i clicked on all those pretty ND banners, i wouldnt have done it.

But isnt the affiliate market a for profit bizz? I mean your not your brothers keeper, your there to lend advise and go to bat for a player of yours in need, correct, even if you havent made that much of of this player in the past?

The best affiliates out there would not promote rogues casinos, they would try to steer players away but your always going to have those affys that will promote whatever to whom ever to make a quick buck and new players without a clue about bonuses and WR will be the ones to suffer. Its up to the player to do that homework," if he's gonna pay ,he should know how to play" and for the legit affiliates they need to band together and out these rogue promoting affiliates and a good place is right here on Casinomeister imo...........laurie

 

[dominique]

Some affiliates just don't get it - it's the player that puts food on your table, not the casino. It's good business to support the player.

Casinos are plentyful, there is no reason to cater to any rogue. You can toss any casino out at any time and replace it with another in a flash.

Not so with players - every click a player makes on your site is a vote of confidence. It's earned with the work you did, and it's precious.

lauriejim, I am glad to hear you treat your clicks with such caution. By doing that, you do your part to clean up the mess. Only sites that get clicks survive. Sites that don't get clicks perish. If every player was diligent this way, this thread would not even exist.

 

[bryand]

Hiya: I am not an affiliate, but was one a long time ago, for Cptn Cooks Casino. It is only the affiliate responsibilty NOT to Lie, or Mislead.
Payout in 24hrs. But it actually takes a week or so.
No ID needed to deposit. But you need 4 picture ID's to withdraw.
and so on.

I will ask you all this. Here in Las Vegas, who is responsible, the Casino, or the Player? The lady sit's down at the BJ table, having never played before, and barly knowing the rules of the game. Just get to 21 or less. Dealer has a total of 16. She has a total of 15. "Oh, i am losing, i will take another card, "hit" please".

Does the Casino rep., ie the dealer, have the responsibilty to inform her she should not hit? or, should she have took a little time to learn how to play before playing for money?

I see people all the time at table games, who make a bet, and do not have a clue as to what they are doing. Hell, a lot of the time they dod not even bet the table Min, and the dealer has to tell them they need to bet more..........

I do not see a difference between clicking on a fancy flashing banner on the internet, and someone seing fancy flashing lights at the Casino, and walking in the door.

This is not the way it should be, BUT IT IS THE WAY THAT IT IS. I am sorry, but with all the information available today on the internet, and to decide to gamble on the internet, the PLAYER needs to use the tools that have been provided to them by Yahoo/Google/Ask, ect ect. There is simply no excuse not to.

A more appropriate comparison might be.....

What if casinos in Las Vegas were not regulated. A kiosk is set up in the Las Vegas airport with a big sign that reads: "Casino Information". The kiosk hands you free tokens to a rogue establishment. When you get ripped off, would you not complain to the kiosk owner???

 

[love2winalot]

hehe, i am being quoted a lot, Weeeeeee.

Here is another question for ya? WW see's a Casino, "Betvoyager" as example. They have no affiliates, and have 0 house edge games. She talks them into becoming an affiliated for them. They are Not rogue, and not recomended, or anything.

Several playes sign up thru her banner. Then a couple complain they did not get paid, got banned for winning, and so on. Now, What is WW suppose to do about all the other, "Current Players", still playing/depositing there?

She has no idea who they are
she has no way to contact, to warn them
All she could do is post on her site for people not to play there, and remove the banner. But, to a large extent, the damage is done.

I mean, if you go to site XXX, "NO not that site silly, "........and click on a banner, or even two, and play at a casino, do you go back to the site that had the banners? Not unless you got ripped off, there is usually no reason to. And, as a player, even if you did, and you see the Casino you have $600 in, has been accused of ripping people off, what do you do?

withdraw asap?
wait, and hope it was all a mistake?
contact them and start asking questions?
threaten to report them to Casinomeiser? hehehe What?

 

[WagerWitch]

WagerWitch, this isn't personal but there was a thread a long time back where you made a comment that got under my skin, but I choose not to comment then because of the other big issues that were going on in that one.
It is this post in this thread that I'm referring to and this is the comment you made. "I'm one of those folks that plops some casinos on the site - without knowing a couple of their backgrounds - but usually as soon as I find out - I try to NEVER support or bring them up again." and there is also this comment of yours that you said in the same thread. " Hell - I don't even know if I had rouges on my site any more - I didn't have the energy after the chemo to go through all of them...SO IF ANYONE sees a rouge on my site - let me know. "

As I said, I left it alone then because of the importance of what was going on in that thread and also I felt bad knowing you had been sick so I bit my lip but after this thread and some of the comments you've made here, I've got to say to say a few things. From your comments there, it's clear that you didn't research well what you were doing or the sites you decided to promote, actually it sounds as if you mostly just threw some banners up and hoped for the best and educated yourself a bit after the fact. It does seem that you are more responsible now but yet it's clear that you weren't in the beginning and your effort seemed haphazard in the beginnning.

I do not agree with you in your stance that it's more of the players responsibility. I think the greater responsibility lies with the affiliates as depending on their level of knowledge it's much to easy for the new player and often times old players to be taken advantage of and they often times are and yes I think a lot of affiliates know this and set it up this way for their benefit.

It's OK - if you don't agree - that's why there are discussions out there. I enjoy discussions - and while I don't always agree with everyone - I DO enjoy hearing their opinions and thoughts... It may not change my mind - and I may not change theirs - but it is ALWAYS good food for thought. Yanno? So - I truly thank you for sharing your thoughts on the issues when we discuss them - and I will NEVER take anything personally that wasn't MEANT personally... or I will come talk to you - or say something OK?

So - remember that always - when dealing with me - I like discussions - and I'm not going to treat you any differently if you don't agree with my point of view - as long as you're willing to listen - and share your point of view - then we'll be totally happy together (snugglebunny bff - LOL!)



Yes - when I first started doing the affiliate thing - I had 2 casinos that appeared to be totally cool - but were, in all respects NOW THAT I HAVE LEARNED - bad.

In fact - both of them no longer exist.

So - it was a learning curve for me as well.

And TRUTH be told - """""ME --- I --- believe people should be ethical in dealing with everything ---- NOT JUST GAMBLING - but EVERYTHING""""

I'm no where near perfect.

But - for me --- I TRY TO PROMOTE ONLY GOOD CASINOS....

OK?

So this thread - the concept was NOT about "ME".

It was thinking - whoa... Wait a moment. This one person wrote the FBI about an affiliate website.

Wow.

That makes me totally want to scramble and leave this business.

Because as much as I love gambling and want to share the fun and good deals with folks - and hope they win BIG...

I do NOT want to go to jail for it.

I do NOT make very much money from my site.

In fact - most of the people playing from my links seem to be winning BIG - or not depositing - which is fine... I didn't start the site to make a lot of money - I started it to share bonuses.

But I certainly do not want to go to jail - or have my name on a list somewhere by law enforcement.

I am just an advertiser.

I am like the newspaper that takes coupons.

I show off those coupons and it's up to the people to cut them out and use those coupons for the products in them.

I can only tell MY experience at the casino - and most casinos I have played with have treated me right.

I can't tell cash out issues at most casinos - WHY?? Cause my stupid arse RARELY cashes out. I would rather play for 6 hours straight than cash out 200.00. That's where the fun lies in gambling for me.

But I can tell how the customer service is - how much I accumulated from the bonus - etc.

So that's what I do.

NOW - if I had a rogue casino - and that ROGUE casino treated me GOOD - I would have a good perspective of them - wouldn't I?

So - I can see how affiliates - who don't have ALL the tools (GG GWPA CM, ETC.) could be promoting bad or rogue casinos - WITHOUT the INTENTION to hurt any players.

Or if they don't have the time or inclination to go look up stuff...

And I can see how the affliates aren't really looking at the casino - and saying YAY - this is a bad casino - let's promote it.

They are looking at the bottom line: The Dollar - or the link stats - that make the dollar.

Now - on my site - I have a disclaimer - What you use on MY site is YOUR CHOICE --- I'm just showing you what I LIKE. (legal disclaimer, yadda yadda)..

OK?

Now - I believe that I do not promote bad casinos - because #1 I do not want them to continue in business - so I'm not giving them my business - NOR do I want them to have more advertising on the web... At least not at "MY HOUSE"... LOL

But this is ME...

And I can ONLY tell you about how I do it.

If - let's say - a player comes to my website.. And they win from a bonus - then they play at a casino - and they cash out - GREAT!!!

If on the other hand - they go to a casino - and spend ALL their life savings - Am I responsible for sharing the link???

Or what if a casino goes bad ON them?? Am I responsible - because at the time - I promoted them - the casino was good...

When and where does the affiliate responsibility end?

I'm not responsible for the person choosing to gamble.
I'm not responsible for them choosing to spend XXX amount of dollars.
I'm not responsible for them clicking on specific ads.
I'm not responsible for them maxing out their credit cards chasing a win.

But for me - I choose to put out the casinos that I think are decent.

Now - Am I responsible for what the player does?

I don't think so.

I think I've done my best to give them a representation of what I think is good.

It is their choice to continue...

Whether they believe my choices or not.

I think the player holds some responsibility for choosing to gamble - and choosing where to gamble.

And trust me - I too - lost thousands to icky nasty scum bag places BEFORE I learned about them.

But I BEAR the responsibility for my choices.

Just as if I were to cut out the coupon in the newspaper and buy a product...

If that product didn't work for me - I wouldn't be chasing after the newspaper - I would be chasing after the company that produced the product or service that sucked.

I think the bottom line is the advertising people should try to promote the good casinos.

But - when a bad one gets in the mix ---- as I have seen happen before --- then it TRULY is up to the player to determine what is right for them.

(ps. thanks for worrying about my health - it IS coming back slowly - I would never wish this crap on my worst enemy...)

 

[WagerWitch]

I would like to say THANK YOU to EVERYONE who has taken a moment to reply to this thread...

Some of your points have been very good - whether I agreed with the concept or not.

I DO - absolutely - like Simmo's and Maphaesto's comment about the software provider possibly bearing some responsibility...

But then - wouldn't that be like a car company selling a car - and then someone using that car to go out and hit random people --- would you go after the car?

Aye ay ay --- this is a confusing industry - and there are a LOT of HARD questions.

And a lot of good opinions.

So thank you for sharing your thoughts on this issue... I do SINCERELY appreciate everyone joining in.

 

[Mavin1]

Just to add my 1.5 cents, it's wishy washy attitudes that keep the rogues in business.

 

[nitro]

I think the bottom line is the advertising people should try to promote the good casinos.

Just to add my 1.5 cents, it's wishy washy attitudes that keep the rogues in business.

It's $$$ in the end because the rogues try to pay more than the honest outfits.

 

[dominique]

In my experience, that is not true.

New places do try to pay the most - usually with a time limit, like one or three months. That's because they need to make their existance known.

Affiliates who promote known rogues end up with - nothing, just like players do.

Rogue is rogue - it's a character trait and it doesn't matter who you are, you get screwed.

 

[nitro]

NOW - if I had a rogue casino - and that ROGUE casino treated me GOOD - I would have a good perspective of them - wouldn't I?

Of course she would because:

They - the affiliates - are looking at the bottom line: The Dollar - or the link stats - that make the dollar.