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Paridise8 Casino

Hello Grandmaster,

The company you posted information about is based in the UK. Black Chip is based in Cyprus. Needless to say, BlackChip (Cyprus) is completely unrelated to Black Chip UK.

A response has been sent to Jetset to answer his questions, I assume he'll be posting about it shortly.

Cheers,
Rob
 
I have received a solid response from Scott Giesbrecht (position and title unknown at present)

In it he draws the distinction between Rival/Black Chip (Canadian provider with a Curacao listed parent) and 400Group (licensee-operator) and gives details on the former.

I will be posting these in full, together with details of the management but for completeness I am still chasing down more info on 400Group, for which I have a contact, courtesy of Scott.

More when I have it.
 
CocoaRob said:
Hello Grandmaster,

The company you posted information about is based in the UK. Black Chip is based in Cyprus. Needless to say, BlackChip (Cyprus) is completely unrelated to Black Chip UK.

A response has been sent to Jetset to answer his questions, I assume he'll be posting about it shortly.

Cheers,
Rob
I stand corrected. Sodax77 led me astray.
 
Yes, indeed - I'm now awaiting a response from a guy called Justin Kelly at 400Group so that I can wrap this up and compress it into a report for this thread.
 
Has anyone here actually won money here? I think I saw one person say they were awaiting payout, but everyone else busted.

I'm on another forum where 4 out of 4 busted less than half way through the WR playing BJ. That seems sort of odd, doesn't it?

I haven't seen any positive trip reports. Hopefully someone can show that this is legit.
 
Report on Rival and 400 Group

RIVAL SOFTWARE (www.rivalpowered.com)

Rival is a software developer that has recently completed the 2 year development of a completely proprietary, downloadable online gaming suite that includes entertaining interactive slots and graphics of exceptionally high quality.

Four online casinos are currently offering the games, which appeared early in March 2006: Da Vincis, This is Vegas, Paradise8 and Cocoa.

These are all owned by 400Group.net (sans website) which is licensed in Curacao. Rival Software managers have assured us that 400 Group is an entirely independent and seperate company, and that its only links with Rival are the licensing of the Rival games and Support facilities.

The 400 Group is allegedly based in Curacao and operates the four casinos referred to above.

Quote from Scott Geisbrecht at Rival: "Rival is the software provider. The 400 Group is the licensee. There is no other relationship beyond this."

A Canadian company (sans website) called Gaming Solutions.ca consulted for Rival in the development phase, and another company under the Rival umbrella called Unified Support Systems has been set up, again allegedly in Curacao to handle Support for licensees of the software. Customer support is solely operated out of Curacao, Netherland Antilles, according to Geisbrecht.

Rival is a wholly owned subsidiary of Black Chip Limited, a private company with unlisted directors that is incorporated in Cyprus. Black Chip Ltd. owns the Rival software brand and has licensed the Rival software to the 400 Group, who are incorporated in Curacao, Netherland Antilles.

The software has been in development for just under two years, and Black Chip is the outright owner of the fully proprietary source code.

There does not yet appear to be a final management team in place. In response to questions regarding the identity of the CEO, COO, CFO and Technical Exec, Geisbrecht told us: "A new CEO is currently being recruited and that individual will be responsible for creating the senior management team. I expect this process should be completed by GIGSE or shortly thereafter."

The following have all been identified as active in management at Rival or 400Group.net:

Justin Kelly
([email protected])
([email protected])
([email protected])
([email protected])

Justin Kattan (could be an alias for above)
[email protected]

Rob Lockhart
([email protected])
([email protected])

Scott Geisbrecht
([email protected])
([email protected].)

Al Maslovsky is believed to be a marketing guy working with Justin Kelly/Kattan at 400Group.

Take a careful look at the email addresses above, all of which have been garnered by various people in the industry from communications with these guys. It is apparent that there are some startling relationships which do not gel cleanly with the answers given so far by Geisbrecht.

In particular note the cmpo.ca and gaming solutions.ca addresses for Justin Kelly. The former leads to a company specialising in software for the medical industry in Canada (Geisbrecht has subsequently denied any association between 400Group and this outfit) whilst the latter is the company that Geisbrecht says consulted on the development of the software. Quote: Gaming Solutions is a software consultancy that helps with technical support and is not involved in the gaming business.Unquote

Yet Kelly would appear to work for 400Group and 400Group Affiliates? These are issues on which more clarity is needed from Rival and 400 Group.

Black Chip also maintains contract employees for technical support in Canada.

There are no Rival partnerships with exisiting gambling software providers in place at this time. However, Black Chip - Rival is reviewing a number of potential business relationship opportunities across several different venues.

Anonymous domain ownership details have been highlighted by players as lacking in transparency, and in answer to this, Geisbrecht says: "The domain name registrations are in the process of being changed to reflect more accurate information. All the relevant contact information is posted on the casino websites. With regards to the googlemail account used at Moneybookers, this was a temporary solution while the account was being set up and it is being updated."

Rival claims that the random number generator (RNG) used by all Rival software was developed and tested independently by CertainKey Inc., a computer security consultancy that specialises in implementing cryptographic algorithms. The RNG is based on public, open algorithms that are recognized as cryptographically secure.

Rival will be conducting its public launch at GIGSE in May, 2006. A number of games and exciting new innovations are in production and in the planning phases, according to the spokesman.

A dispute resolution process is in place for client issues that cannot be resolved at the casino/operator level. Players can use the following email address to escalate this type of issue: [email protected].

We additionally submitted a list of questions to Justin Kelly at 400Group at the suggestion of Geisbrecht.

Unfortunately to date we have not received a response, and therefore much of the detail on 400 Group remains unknown. We do not know who is on the top management team, who owns the company, what other interests it has, the real nature of its relationships with the other companies mentioned here and its future plans.

We do know that The 400 Group is currently working on the development of their corporate site. That is surprisingly late bearing in mind that the casinos are already operational.

We also know that 400Group has been active in recruiting affiliates through 400Affiliates.com, offering up to 60 percent initially in commissions. That site is operational.

We queried the limited choice of financial options, to which Geisbrecht replied: "As part of the launch phase the 400 Group selected certain processors through which to implement their initial payment solutions. There will be additional processors and payment options added in the coming days and weeks."

If or when this is forthcoming (and it is to be hoped that the 400 Group will realise the need for transparency in an industry so based on trust) it will be posted. We have used the 32 Red.com website as an example of true executive transparency.

Our purely subjective opinion is that although some answers have been upfront, we're not being given the entire picture here. From the software and CRM glitches reported thus far by players, it would also appear that the operational launch was perhaps a little premature and before everything had been fully cleared.

Finally, we find a situation where a major commercial step such as an operational launch is carried out whilst the company is still recruiting a top management team incomprehensible.

Nevertheless, this software obviously has very good potential, and it is to be hoped that the glitches and unanswered questions will all be cleared up sooner rather than later.
 
jetset said:
Nevertheless, this software obviously has very good potential, and it is to be hoped that the glitches and unanswered questions will all be cleared up sooner rather than later.

Seconded. Its clear to me that the potential is there and a lot of effort has gone into the software by all accounts. But as well all know, that needs to be coupled with clear transparent information and customer care, in this industry more than almost any other.

I'm with you (and others) that it appears slightly rushed, maybe through circumstances. But hopefully these issues will all get sorted out and prove above board.
 
jetset said:
Finally, we find a situation where a major commercial step such as an operational launch is carried out whilst the company is still recruiting a top management team incomprehensible...
Good point. One shouldn't be rushed to get a product out just for the product's sake. A solid infrastructure behind any casino operation is crucial - especially one that seems to be a bit untested in these waters. Good work, Jetset.
 
Thank you Jetset very very informative! I have spoke with Justin as well in spurts..lol I am hopeful they get all these glitches fixed and get their act together as well because this software is pretty cool and good competition with MG.
 
I deposited $50 and started clearing the WR with blackjack. Around halfway through the WR i hit a ridiculous downswing which left me with only $15 left flatbetting $1-$2. Luckily I hit 4 of a kind on JoB for a nice $125 and later withdrew $100. The money hit my Neteller within 24 hours.
 
400Group response just received

RESPONSE FROM 400 GROUP

Justin Kelly of 400Group has now responded to our questions, denying any relationship between 400Group and the CMPO.ca address from whence an earlier email originated, and declining to disclose the identities of the management team at 400Group.

He does confirm however:

That The400Group NV is a private Netherlands Antilles company with headquarters in Curacao. The 400 Group has a license to operate online casinos from Curacao. There is no parent company. The owners of the company wish to remain anonymous.

400Group operates the four online casinos licensed by Rival to use its software: Da Vincis, This is Vegas, Cocoa and Paradise8.

All marketing questions and other media related questions pertaining to The400Group family of casinos should flow through him (Kelly) as Senior Marketer with The400Group with Al Maslovsky as a colleague. The400Group marketing team acts for This Is Vegas, Paradise8, DaVincis Gold and CocoaCasino. Rival handles all technical aspects of the casinos.

Neither Unified Support or Gaming Solutions are connected to The 400 Group. Unified Support is Rival's branded customer support solution in Curacao and 400Group has no dealings with Gaming Solutions, says Kelly (but note the gaming solutions email address he has used on occasion).

400Group licensed the Rival branded product through Black Chip in Cyprus and they provide customer support through their Unified Support division.

The 400Group corporate site is currently being developed. The company is presently concentrating on the casino sites and Affiliate Program which are the most important aspects from its perspective.

All accounting and cashier functions are handled by The400Group, however customer service is in place to assist with these functions.
 
jetset said:
RESPONSE FROM 400 GROUP

Justin Kelly of 400Group has now responded to our questions, denying any relationship between 400Group and the CMPO.ca address from whence an earlier email originated, and declining to disclose the identities of the management team at 400Group.

Not sure what the big secret is? I noticed the same sort of reply at CAP, affiliates were asking who the marketing team was, and Justin neatly sidestepped the issue, and then finally said that it was "confidential"? He did say they had eight years experience in the industry/marketing, but that is as far as he would go. Can't say that I've ever heard of confidentiality agreements in relation to where you worked previously? Wouldn't look all that great on a resume...sorry, can't tell you, but I do have experience, really.

jetset said:
RESPONSE FROM 400 GROUP
The 400Group corporate site is currently being developed. The company is presently concentrating on the casino sites and Affiliate Program which are the most important aspects from its perspective.

I would have thought that the most important aspect would be to ensure that the software is functioning 100%, and not be conducting the equivalent of Beta tests with people's money? JMO....

Thanks for the info Jetset, excellent fact-finding mission. Personally, I think I'll hold off d/l or playing there for the time being. I'd like to see what's going on with them in six months to a year's time.
 
QUOTE: Not sure what the big secret is? I noticed the same sort of reply at CAP, affiliates were asking who the marketing team was, and Justin neatly sidestepped the issue, and then finally said that it was "confidential"? He did say they had eight years experience in the industry/marketing, but that is as far as he would go. Can't say that I've ever heard of confidentiality agreements in relation to where you worked previously? Wouldn't look all that great on a resume...sorry, can't tell you, but I do have experience, really.UNQUOTE


Very good points, PinaBaby.

Once they have their software ducks in a row and a professional management team in place this is a business that could do well, I believe - certainly the product has a lot of potential.

Unfortunately, this preoccupation with *confidentiality* dents their credibility and hampers their unqualified acceptance i.m.o.
 
Here is a quick trip report:

1. Downloaded, no problems.

2. Deposited, received bonus instantly.

3. Had a great run playing cards.

3a. Software stalled a few times, but no big deal. Slightly annoying that you sometimes have to click the button three times to deal next hand. But I like how they show the dealer final total in BJ before all the cards appear.

4. Requested withdrawal.

5. Money received in Neteller in under 20 hours.

6. I'm playing I-Slots now with some money left in acct. Lots of great features. Slot players could get hooked.
 
I tried the software yesterday. I like seeing the bonus reflected in the cashier BEFORE I deposit(ala Inetbet). I like knowing exactly what I am getting myself into before I deposit my money.

The games look good and the only problem I noticed is that the software seems to hang for a few seconds(as many as 20 at one point) every so often although I was never booted form a game. The software seems to not auto-download which is a big plus in my book.


I made a cashout request late last night and I recieved an e-mail at each stage of the cashout process(request, approval, payment) and my withdraw hit neteller in under 12 hours.

Great experience from a new casino. I will be playing again in the near future.
 
oldmanhank said:
I made a cashout request late last night and I recieved an e-mail at each stage of the cashout process(request, approval, payment) and my withdraw hit neteller in under 12 hours.


I wish more places would do this. It definately wouldn't take much to setup...a simple webpage that connected to the db that would link email addresses with user acct #'s, choose the type of form letter to send, and viola...all done. And there's a nice paper trail for both the user and casino.

Let's just hope they don't get too comfortable once all the kinks are worked out and they're no longer working very hard to get new customers, and fall to the wayside like so many other casinos have done.

I still don't like the idea of certain members of the management team/owners wanting to remain anonymous. Or maybe they still don't have everyone in place yet and don't want to reveal that? :)
 
I try <being the operative word> not to shoot out about things I dont know about, so in regards to Paradise8 Ive downloaded the software to check it out. Didnt have any issues regarding the install process, signup or games download. Everything was smooth as silk.

Im yet to drop cash here, may drop $50 over the weekend and see how it fairs.

My point to all this is that as far as the software goes imo its pretty nice and certainly gives some of the well known current popular software a run for its money.

The only thing that makes me hesitant is history and when applied to the non disclosure of certain aspect of Pariside8 it makes me nervous. Im in no way comparing this group to Virtual, but, in the beginning they paid their winners too. Look what happen with the group.

At this point they <the casino> holds all the cards if they are wanting to have the community accept them as serious players then the blankets need to be lifted and the curtains pulled.
 
winbig72 said:
I wish more places would do this. It definately wouldn't take much to setup...a simple webpage that connected to the db that would link email addresses with user acct #'s, choose the type of form letter to send, and viola...all done. And there's a nice paper trail for both the user and casino.

Playtech do this partially - withdrawal confirmation, then processed confirmation, however they don't send an email to indicate when the money actually hits Neteller: from my experience it's anywhere from 2-12 hours after the 'processed' email, with no predictable pattern that I can discern.

MG annoys me in that regard - you get no email to confirm you made the withdrawal, and they usually can't even manage to update the status of their withdrawals in Cashcheck (I have withdrawals from months ago that still say 'In Progress'). Some MGs do send a message to indicate they processed it, but it's usually sent a few hours after the money hits Neteller, so by then I've usually noticed the money manually.

What also surprises me is the fact that Neteller now send an email for every single casino deposit I make, but they don't send anything when money is sent to me (excluding Peer-to-Peer). That is the exact opposite of what I want - I know when I've made a deposit to a casino, I dont need an email to confirm it; I want to know when money is sent to me!

Anyway, all this is off topic, so I'll shush now :)

(Just to bring it back on topic for a moment - there's no way I'm doing a casino's beta testing for them without being paid for it; I'll give this one a miss for a couple of months until they get to the point they should have been at launch.)
 
paradise

I tried this casino out when they were offering the free $20 and didn't like it at all. This morning my wife decides she's going to deposit at a sister site Cocoa Casino. She deposits $25 and claims the 200 % bonus for a starting bankroll of $75.
She goes to one of the I-slots called Bank Heist and starts wagering 75 cents a spin. Within 20 spins her entire bankroll is gone. How is this possible you might ask ? Well it turns out that if you get one of the numerous (so called) bonus rounds your wager gets jacked up to $3.75 a spin until the round is completed. Did she want to wager $3.75 a spin, no. Was there any way to avoid this, no. Did she even know the game had increased her bet, I doubt it. (she's a woman...lol)
In any event during this bonus round she gets a "last win, $100" message. I seen it myelf. Upon completion of the round it goes back to the regular slot and her bankroll is at $22. She then switches games and loses her remaing balance without a win. The entire session lasted no more than five minutes.
She then emails support asking what just went on and gets the following reply:

Dear Joyce,

I am currently looking into your issue but in the meantime I would like to refund your deposit back to your playing account. I am pleased to announce a lower slot limit in Real Crime:The Bank Heist. You can now bet $0.75 throughout the entire game!

Best regards,
Reviews department

Hahaha ! That's what she thought she was doing when she set her wager at 75 cents to begin with. Too funny! Of course we all know the rest of the story, she redownloaded the software and lost the $25 on some other slot without ever winning more than a free spin ($1.50) If she wagered more than $200 total out of the $25, $50,and $25 I'd be in total shock.
This entire session from start to finish was under ten minutes of gameplay.
To echo some of the opinions above, these I-slots are pretty decent in theory and could be very attractive to certain players as they're very different from anything out there but in my opinion the numerous software hangups, missing winning pays, and jacking of a players wagers midgame will definately not wash with most for long. Peace !
 
spike38 said:
To echo some of the opinions above, these I-slots are pretty decent in theory and could be very attractive to certain players as they're very different from anything out there but in my opinion the numerous software hangups, missing winning pays, and jacking of a players wagers midgame will definately not wash with most for long. Peace !

a) Thanks for the warning. I've never heard of a slot raising a player's wager without consent.

b) You can't expect to win while playing slots with a 20x bonus.

c) I messed around with one of the I-Slots a little and finished with a profit. I think I'll cash out until they get things straightened out.

d) The i-slot payouts are very confusing. It sort of flashes a 'last win' amount along with a multiplier but I never knew what it meant exactly.
 
spike38 said:
I tried this casino out when they were offering the free $20 and didn't like it at all. This morning my wife decides she's going to deposit at a sister site Cocoa Casino. She deposits $25 and claims the 200 % bonus for a starting bankroll of $75.
She goes to one of the I-slots called Bank Heist and starts wagering 75 cents a spin. Within 20 spins her entire bankroll is gone. How is this possible you might ask ? Well it turns out that if you get one of the numerous (so called) bonus rounds your wager gets jacked up to $3.75 a spin until the round is completed. Did she want to wager $3.75 a spin, no. Was there any way to avoid this, no. Did she even know the game had increased her bet, I doubt it. (she's a woman...lol)
In any event during this bonus round she gets a "last win, $100" message. I seen it myelf. Upon completion of the round it goes back to the regular slot and her bankroll is at $22. She then switches games and loses her remaing balance without a win. The entire session lasted no more than five minutes.
She then emails support asking what just went on and gets the following reply:

Dear Joyce,

I am currently looking into your issue but in the meantime I would like to refund your deposit back to your playing account. I am pleased to announce a lower slot limit in Real Crime:The Bank Heist. You can now bet $0.75 throughout the entire game!
Best regards,
Reviews department

Hahaha ! That's what she thought she was doing when she set her wager at 75 cents to begin with. Too funny! Of course we all know the rest of the story, she redownloaded the software and lost the $25 on some other slot without ever winning more than a free spin ($1.50) If she wagered more than $200 total out of the $25, $50,and $25 I'd be in total shock.
This entire session from start to finish was under ten minutes of gameplay.
To echo some of the opinions above, these I-slots are pretty decent in theory and could be very attractive to certain players as they're very different from anything out there but in my opinion the numerous software hangups, missing winning pays, and jacking of a players wagers midgame will definately not wash with most for long. Peace !


:eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2:

Since when does it cost you to play a bonus round. Thought that was the whole meaning of "bonus". When you get 15 free spins on Thunderstruck, they don't charge you per spin? I'm sitting here lmao, cause I've never heard of anything so ridiculous. Bad enough you have to pay for your "bonus" spins, but to have to pay 5X your original bet? :confused:

Rob, could you enlighten us? Is this normal, or was this another glitch?

And the highlighted part there, that's classic. I thought that's what she was betting? Wow!!!
 
iSlots

Hello All,

Islots are the newest slots developed for the Rival gaming software. They have bonus rounds, freespins, sub games and stories interwoven. When a player enters a bonus round, of course it doesn't cost them anything to play that bonus round! They win the amount displayed in the winning screen, or the freespins with the multiplier. We always appreciate comments as to how to better display wins and are commited to responding to players' needs and requests.

When a player enters a fixed bet round, a screen is displayed where the player can select their bet. This bet is displayed next to the spin button at all times. The minimum bet was inadvertently set to 3.75 for one of the iSlots. This has been updated to 0.75. The player of course can choose whether or not to place any of the bets, and can reset the round to a smaller bet size by clicking Reset Round/Change Bet. This starts the round over, using a new bet size selected by the player.

Cheers,

Rob
 
Thanks Rob for clarifying that and for elaborating on the slots in general. And I must say, you have been most gracious under what must seem to you to be unfriendly fire, lol. :thumbsup:
 
That sounds great, Rob but it doesn't do my wife a bit of good to make things right after the fact. This "glitch" cost her any chance she'll ever have to try these games as they are quite pricey even at 75 cents a spin and I surely won't be letting her deposit again after this. Also, there still is the "last win,$100", missing pay issue which she is awaiting a reply from the reviews department on.
In any event, kudos to you for coming on here and attempting to weed through all these new software pains. It shows you guys are attempting to go in the right direction and hopefully you get the bugs ironed out.
 
I'd just like to add an aside. At the time this happened my wife COULD NOT choose to:
1. change her bet size
2. whether or not to place any bets
3. exit the bonus game (without ctrl+alt+del out of the casino)
Even though she was wagering the game minimum of 75 cents the bonus wager was raised up to $3.75 and there was absolutely nothing she could do to change it.
 
When I tried that slot last week I went into the bonus round, I did get a pop up asking if I agreed the 3.75, I did not so I lowered it, I am not being rude but maybe your wife was not paying attention and just clicked off the pop up
 
In my testing last week, the lowest amount that was allowed during the "chase" spins was $3.75. CocoaRob says that this has now been corrected and the lowest amount is 75 cents. So it is entirely conceivable that Mrs. Spike did not have any choice.
 
spearmaster said:
In my testing last week, the lowest amount that was allowed during the "chase" spins was $3.75. CocoaRob says that this has now been corrected and the lowest amount is 75 cents. So it is entirely conceivable that Mrs. Spike did not have any choice.

I almost said that, yes you can change bet-size.
But actually this is not only bug i found.

They have really nice games, but i hope they will upgrade some features, like:
"Free Spins"/"bonus feature" total win-screen.
Better "last win"-screen,
and if example zone alarm or any program need to access net, etc.
I hope i can change back to Full screen.... without closing casino
(not sure, if this my graphic card issue). But always same thing
 
I don't like the fact that you can't get more than 2 grand a month from them. That's a major restriction especially if you win a jackpot. That clearly shows that they haven't got the financial strength to cover any major wins. Many bugs, some questions from jetset unanswered and questionable finances hm.... Won't give them my money am afraid until they get themselves sorted.
 
gfkostas said:
I don't like the fact that you can't get more than 2 grand a month from them. That's a major restriction especially if you win a jackpot. That clearly shows that they haven't got the financial strength to cover any major wins. Many bugs, some questions from jetset unanswered and questionable finances hm.... Won't give them my money am afraid until they get themselves sorted.

Yuo

and i'm glad that some players got paid.

However i have now more facts, but i do judge them at puclic forum.
I hope they keep their "ok"-reputation. Good luck everyone with this group ;)
 
gfkostas said:
I don't like the fact that you can't get more than 2 grand a month from them. That's a major restriction especially if you win a jackpot. That clearly shows that they haven't got the financial strength to cover any major wins. Many bugs, some questions from jetset unanswered and questionable finances hm.... Won't give them my money am afraid until they get themselves sorted.

gfkostas,

From the terms and conditions of the casinos:

"A player is permited to withdraw a maximum of $2000 USD of their winnings per 24 hour period."

Cheers,
Rob
 
Thanks for the clarification on that, Rob - it's an important point imv.

We're still digging on these companies, because my last few questions regarding those involved remain unanswered by Justin Kelly and that is an unfortunate reflection on the transparency of this outfit, the quality of its software notwithstanding.

More when we have it....
 
jetset said:
We're still digging on these companies, because my last few questions regarding those involved remain unanswered by Justin Kelly and that is an unfortunate reflection on the transparency of this outfit, the quality of its software notwithstanding.

More when we have it....

Jetset,

Did they give you any understandable reasons as to why they are unable or unwilling to provide you with further info about their outfit?

It's important to say that the scepticism expressed by some in this thread isn't cynical but only a concern which is justifiable given the notorious history of many casinos and their victims. Guilty until proven innocent!

CocoaRob said:
From the terms and conditions of the casinos:

"A player is permited to withdraw a maximum of $2000 USD of their winnings per 24 hour period."

Cheers,
Rob


Thanks for the clarification Rob. I was wrong to say that it was 2k a month but still the restriction cannot be justified on the grounds we have at hand. Of course 80%+ of the player wont have any problem with such a restriction. What about the players who win a major jackpot? Do they have to log in once a day just to take out 2k?
 
gfkostas said:
It's important to say that the scepticism expressed by some in this thread isn't cynical but only a concern which is justifiable given the notorious history of many casinos and their victims. Guilty until proven innocent!


Sadly true in this industry. Its a shame so many shady individuals and organisations have been allowed to ply their trade in it as the knock-on effect is now felt by good and honest start-ups also :cool: Thats why I feel transparency is very important. Stories like that Bet Royale fiasco recently really bring it home how important it is to be vigilant.

Although I would add that some of the software providers have done a good job in protecting the player with stricter licensing and it certainly seems in better shape today than it ever has been.
 
Last edited:
gfkostas said:
Did they give you any understandable reasons as to why they are unable or unwilling to provide you with further info about their outfit?

From what I understand many of the involved individuals have been working for other software companies prior to splitting offf and developing this, and have a non disclosure agreement to contend with.
 
QUOTE: Originally Posted by gfkostas: Did they give you any understandable reasons as to why they are unable or unwilling to provide you with further info about their outfit? UNQUOTE

No - Kelly simply declined to disclose details of the management team at 400Group "...because they wish to remain anonymous." And you will recall from earlier posts that Rival said it was still recruiting a CEO, who would then nominate his executive team.

Another question that remains unanswered is why initial emails coming from Justin Kelly carried a CMPO.ca address, when he denies any connection with this company whatsoever, as does Rival's spokesperson Scott Geisbrecht.

Here's another anomaly - look at the email addresses that Kelly has used so far. One is at Gaming Solutions, which Geisbrecht says is an independent Canadian software consultancy that Rival used in the past. And of course CMPO.ca, which no-one is owning up to so far:

Justin Kelly
([email protected])
([email protected])
([email protected])
([email protected])


These are not commercially sensitive issues and anomalies, and as Simmo and Gf point out they raise historically based industry fears that something may not be quite right here despite the quality of the software (temporary glitches aside) and so far happy player payout experiences.

Added to the anonymous domain registrations, unfinished websites and the apparent absence of professional and identified management teams it is natural that this should prompt further questions.

QUOTE: From what I understand many of the involved individuals have been working for other software companies prior to splitting offf and developing this, and have a non disclosure agreement to contend with. UNQUOTE

Can you give us your source for this information, Dom? Because these guys have ignored my last probing emails on the above questions.

Frankly I don't see the logic behind this "non-disclosure" reasoning, especially going into a business where trust is so important. Let's hear more detail and clarity - that works for Rival - 400Group as well as the players and affiliates
 
From the slots at least, I don't think 'huge' payouts are that easy!

I was in fun mode betting $75 a spin, and even five high paying symbols only hit me $2000. Sure you could one in a million hit them in the (five) free spins, but it's not going to happen anytime soon. The payouts are regular, and the slots are fun - but there's no "Ladies Nite" or "Thunderstruck" monster payout potential!

They're definitely the play longer type slots where you don't lose a great deal, but you don't win a great deal either.
 
jetset said:
Frankly I don't see the logic behind this "non-disclosure" reasoning, especially going into a business where trust is so important. Let's hear more detail and clarity - that works for Rival - 400Group as well as the players and affiliates

I don't get it either. Non-disclosure in relation to where you worked? They won't even elaborate as to what experience they hold in what aspect of online gaming. Developing software, running/managing a casino and heading up an affiliate/marketing team are three very different areas of expertise. It makes no sense to me why they can't say well...this person worked for this casino, this person has experience in marketing with this affiliate company, this person worked for this software company. It's not like they were CIA operatives, is it? :confused:
 
I worked for an ISP once that required me to sign a NDA. It basically said that I could not give out any "trade secrets", as well as not being able to work for/start up my own ISP within X amount of miles for X amount of time after I left the company.

Nothing more, nothing less.

I am assuming most NDA's are pretty much the same when it comes to employment. If this is the case, there's no reason for them to remain 'anonymous', unless in fact they were trying to bypass the NDA that was signed.
 
I can totally understand an agreement to not share trade secrets, especially when it's something as high-tech as software development. But it seems that most people simply want some assurance that the people in charge do indeed have some past experience in at least some aspect of online gaming. If I were a millionaire I could go and start up an online casino, but that doesn't mean that I am qualified to run it. And if someone were to ask me what experience I had in the industry, what would I say? Well....gee, I posted on Casinomeister alot. As I said before, I won't be playing there until I learn more, and as an affiliate, I wouldn't be comfortable directing players there either. JMO.

Totally different scenario as it was an existing software that had legal issues attached...but does anyone remember Largo Casino?
 

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