Paridise8 Casino

Hello Grandmaster,

The company you posted information about is based in the UK. Black Chip is based in Cyprus. Needless to say, BlackChip (Cyprus) is completely unrelated to Black Chip UK.

A response has been sent to Jetset to answer his questions, I assume he'll be posting about it shortly.

Cheers,
Rob
 
I have received a solid response from Scott Giesbrecht (position and title unknown at present)

In it he draws the distinction between Rival/Black Chip (Canadian provider with a Curacao listed parent) and 400Group (licensee-operator) and gives details on the former.

I will be posting these in full, together with details of the management but for completeness I am still chasing down more info on 400Group, for which I have a contact, courtesy of Scott.

More when I have it.
 
CocoaRob said:
Hello Grandmaster,

The company you posted information about is based in the UK. Black Chip is based in Cyprus. Needless to say, BlackChip (Cyprus) is completely unrelated to Black Chip UK.

A response has been sent to Jetset to answer his questions, I assume he'll be posting about it shortly.

Cheers,
Rob
I stand corrected. Sodax77 led me astray.
 
GrandMaster said:
I stand corrected. Sodax77 led me astray.

- Black Chip Ltd owns the software.
Link Removed ( Old/Invalid) ***
Only "BLACK CHIP LIMITED" i found.
Not sure, is this right company, but it was only i found under:
"BLACK CHIP LIMITED"

My apology

However, now we know :)
 
jetset said:
I have received a solid response from Scott Giesbrecht (position and title unknown at present)

So they did satisfy in a timely fashion all questions raised? This is good news
 
Yes, indeed - I'm now awaiting a response from a guy called Justin Kelly at 400Group so that I can wrap this up and compress it into a report for this thread.
 
Has anyone here actually won money here? I think I saw one person say they were awaiting payout, but everyone else busted.

I'm on another forum where 4 out of 4 busted less than half way through the WR playing BJ. That seems sort of odd, doesn't it?

I haven't seen any positive trip reports. Hopefully someone can show that this is legit.
 
Report on Rival and 400 Group

RIVAL SOFTWARE (www.rivalpowered.com)

Rival is a software developer that has recently completed the 2 year development of a completely proprietary, downloadable online gaming suite that includes entertaining interactive slots and graphics of exceptionally high quality.

Four online casinos are currently offering the games, which appeared early in March 2006: Da Vincis, This is Vegas, Paradise8 and Cocoa.

These are all owned by 400Group.net (sans website) which is licensed in Curacao. Rival Software managers have assured us that 400 Group is an entirely independent and seperate company, and that its only links with Rival are the licensing of the Rival games and Support facilities.

The 400 Group is allegedly based in Curacao and operates the four casinos referred to above.

Quote from Scott Geisbrecht at Rival: "Rival is the software provider. The 400 Group is the licensee. There is no other relationship beyond this."

A Canadian company (sans website) called Gaming Solutions.ca consulted for Rival in the development phase, and another company under the Rival umbrella called Unified Support Systems has been set up, again allegedly in Curacao to handle Support for licensees of the software. Customer support is solely operated out of Curacao, Netherland Antilles, according to Geisbrecht.

Rival is a wholly owned subsidiary of Black Chip Limited, a private company with unlisted directors that is incorporated in Cyprus. Black Chip Ltd. owns the Rival software brand and has licensed the Rival software to the 400 Group, who are incorporated in Curacao, Netherland Antilles.

The software has been in development for just under two years, and Black Chip is the outright owner of the fully proprietary source code.

There does not yet appear to be a final management team in place. In response to questions regarding the identity of the CEO, COO, CFO and Technical Exec, Geisbrecht told us: "A new CEO is currently being recruited and that individual will be responsible for creating the senior management team. I expect this process should be completed by GIGSE or shortly thereafter."

The following have all been identified as active in management at Rival or 400Group.net:

Justin Kelly
(support@gamingsolutions.ca)
(affiliates@400affiliates.com)
(justin@400group.net)
(jkelly@cmpo.ca)

Justin Kattan (could be an alias for above)
affiliates@400affiliates.com

Rob Lockhart
(rob@unifiedsupportsystems.com)
(rob@rivalpowered.com)

Scott Geisbrecht
(scott@unifiedsupportsystems.com)
(scott@rivalpowered.com.)

Al Maslovsky is believed to be a marketing guy working with Justin Kelly/Kattan at 400Group.

Take a careful look at the email addresses above, all of which have been garnered by various people in the industry from communications with these guys. It is apparent that there are some startling relationships which do not gel cleanly with the answers given so far by Geisbrecht.

In particular note the cmpo.ca and gaming solutions.ca addresses for Justin Kelly. The former leads to a company specialising in software for the medical industry in Canada (Geisbrecht has subsequently denied any association between 400Group and this outfit) whilst the latter is the company that Geisbrecht says consulted on the development of the software. Quote: Gaming Solutions is a software consultancy that helps with technical support and is not involved in the gaming business.Unquote

Yet Kelly would appear to work for 400Group and 400Group Affiliates? These are issues on which more clarity is needed from Rival and 400 Group.

Black Chip also maintains contract employees for technical support in Canada.

There are no Rival partnerships with exisiting gambling software providers in place at this time. However, Black Chip - Rival is reviewing a number of potential business relationship opportunities across several different venues.

Anonymous domain ownership details have been highlighted by players as lacking in transparency, and in answer to this, Geisbrecht says: "The domain name registrations are in the process of being changed to reflect more accurate information. All the relevant contact information is posted on the casino websites. With regards to the googlemail account used at Moneybookers, this was a temporary solution while the account was being set up and it is being updated."

Rival claims that the random number generator (RNG) used by all Rival software was developed and tested independently by CertainKey Inc., a computer security consultancy that specialises in implementing cryptographic algorithms. The RNG is based on public, open algorithms that are recognized as cryptographically secure.

Rival will be conducting its public launch at GIGSE in May, 2006. A number of games and exciting new innovations are in production and in the planning phases, according to the spokesman.

A dispute resolution process is in place for client issues that cannot be resolved at the casino/operator level. Players can use the following email address to escalate this type of issue: disputes@rivalpowered.com.

We additionally submitted a list of questions to Justin Kelly at 400Group at the suggestion of Geisbrecht.

Unfortunately to date we have not received a response, and therefore much of the detail on 400 Group remains unknown. We do not know who is on the top management team, who owns the company, what other interests it has, the real nature of its relationships with the other companies mentioned here and its future plans.

We do know that The 400 Group is currently working on the development of their corporate site. That is surprisingly late bearing in mind that the casinos are already operational.

We also know that 400Group has been active in recruiting affiliates through 400Affiliates.com, offering up to 60 percent initially in commissions. That site is operational.

We queried the limited choice of financial options, to which Geisbrecht replied: "As part of the launch phase the 400 Group selected certain processors through which to implement their initial payment solutions. There will be additional processors and payment options added in the coming days and weeks."

If or when this is forthcoming (and it is to be hoped that the 400 Group will realise the need for transparency in an industry so based on trust) it will be posted. We have used the 32 Red.com website as an example of true executive transparency.

Our purely subjective opinion is that although some answers have been upfront, we're not being given the entire picture here. From the software and CRM glitches reported thus far by players, it would also appear that the operational launch was perhaps a little premature and before everything had been fully cleared.

Finally, we find a situation where a major commercial step such as an operational launch is carried out whilst the company is still recruiting a top management team incomprehensible.

Nevertheless, this software obviously has very good potential, and it is to be hoped that the glitches and unanswered questions will all be cleared up sooner rather than later.
 
jetset said:
Nevertheless, this software obviously has very good potential, and it is to be hoped that the glitches and unanswered questions will all be cleared up sooner rather than later.

Seconded. Its clear to me that the potential is there and a lot of effort has gone into the software by all accounts. But as well all know, that needs to be coupled with clear transparent information and customer care, in this industry more than almost any other.

I'm with you (and others) that it appears slightly rushed, maybe through circumstances. But hopefully these issues will all get sorted out and prove above board.
 
jetset said:
Finally, we find a situation where a major commercial step such as an operational launch is carried out whilst the company is still recruiting a top management team incomprehensible...
Good point. One shouldn't be rushed to get a product out just for the product's sake. A solid infrastructure behind any casino operation is crucial - especially one that seems to be a bit untested in these waters. Good work, Jetset.
 
Thank you Jetset very very informative! I have spoke with Justin as well in spurts..lol I am hopeful they get all these glitches fixed and get their act together as well because this software is pretty cool and good competition with MG.
 
Cashout - my original buy was $25 + $38 bonus = $63. Eventually cashed out $225.

Additional deposits apparently have a 100% match
 
I deposited $50 and started clearing the WR with blackjack. Around halfway through the WR i hit a ridiculous downswing which left me with only $15 left flatbetting $1-$2. Luckily I hit 4 of a kind on JoB for a nice $125 and later withdrew $100. The money hit my Neteller within 24 hours.
 
400Group response just received

RESPONSE FROM 400 GROUP

Justin Kelly of 400Group has now responded to our questions, denying any relationship between 400Group and the CMPO.ca address from whence an earlier email originated, and declining to disclose the identities of the management team at 400Group.

He does confirm however:

That The400Group NV is a private Netherlands Antilles company with headquarters in Curacao. The 400 Group has a license to operate online casinos from Curacao. There is no parent company. The owners of the company wish to remain anonymous.

400Group operates the four online casinos licensed by Rival to use its software: Da Vincis, This is Vegas, Cocoa and Paradise8.

All marketing questions and other media related questions pertaining to The400Group family of casinos should flow through him (Kelly) as Senior Marketer with The400Group with Al Maslovsky as a colleague. The400Group marketing team acts for This Is Vegas, Paradise8, DaVincis Gold and CocoaCasino. Rival handles all technical aspects of the casinos.

Neither Unified Support or Gaming Solutions are connected to The 400 Group. Unified Support is Rival's branded customer support solution in Curacao and 400Group has no dealings with Gaming Solutions, says Kelly (but note the gaming solutions email address he has used on occasion).

400Group licensed the Rival branded product through Black Chip in Cyprus and they provide customer support through their Unified Support division.

The 400Group corporate site is currently being developed. The company is presently concentrating on the casino sites and Affiliate Program which are the most important aspects from its perspective.

All accounting and cashier functions are handled by The400Group, however customer service is in place to assist with these functions.
 
jetset said:
RESPONSE FROM 400 GROUP

Justin Kelly of 400Group has now responded to our questions, denying any relationship between 400Group and the CMPO.ca address from whence an earlier email originated, and declining to disclose the identities of the management team at 400Group.

Not sure what the big secret is? I noticed the same sort of reply at CAP, affiliates were asking who the marketing team was, and Justin neatly sidestepped the issue, and then finally said that it was "confidential"? He did say they had eight years experience in the industry/marketing, but that is as far as he would go. Can't say that I've ever heard of confidentiality agreements in relation to where you worked previously? Wouldn't look all that great on a resume...sorry, can't tell you, but I do have experience, really.

jetset said:
RESPONSE FROM 400 GROUP
The 400Group corporate site is currently being developed. The company is presently concentrating on the casino sites and Affiliate Program which are the most important aspects from its perspective.

I would have thought that the most important aspect would be to ensure that the software is functioning 100%, and not be conducting the equivalent of Beta tests with people's money? JMO....

Thanks for the info Jetset, excellent fact-finding mission. Personally, I think I'll hold off d/l or playing there for the time being. I'd like to see what's going on with them in six months to a year's time.
 
QUOTE: Not sure what the big secret is? I noticed the same sort of reply at CAP, affiliates were asking who the marketing team was, and Justin neatly sidestepped the issue, and then finally said that it was "confidential"? He did say they had eight years experience in the industry/marketing, but that is as far as he would go. Can't say that I've ever heard of confidentiality agreements in relation to where you worked previously? Wouldn't look all that great on a resume...sorry, can't tell you, but I do have experience, really.UNQUOTE


Very good points, PinaBaby.

Once they have their software ducks in a row and a professional management team in place this is a business that could do well, I believe - certainly the product has a lot of potential.

Unfortunately, this preoccupation with *confidentiality* dents their credibility and hampers their unqualified acceptance i.m.o.
 
jetset said:
Unfortunately, this preoccupation with *confidentiality* dents their credibility and hampers their unqualified acceptance i.m.o.

Spot on... I'll be holding off till more info/recommendations come back! Great work Jetset, much appreciated! :thumbsup:
 
Here is a quick trip report:

1. Downloaded, no problems.

2. Deposited, received bonus instantly.

3. Had a great run playing cards.

3a. Software stalled a few times, but no big deal. Slightly annoying that you sometimes have to click the button three times to deal next hand. But I like how they show the dealer final total in BJ before all the cards appear.

4. Requested withdrawal.

5. Money received in Neteller in under 20 hours.

6. I'm playing I-Slots now with some money left in acct. Lots of great features. Slot players could get hooked.
 
I tried the software yesterday. I like seeing the bonus reflected in the cashier BEFORE I deposit(ala Inetbet). I like knowing exactly what I am getting myself into before I deposit my money.

The games look good and the only problem I noticed is that the software seems to hang for a few seconds(as many as 20 at one point) every so often although I was never booted form a game. The software seems to not auto-download which is a big plus in my book.


I made a cashout request late last night and I recieved an e-mail at each stage of the cashout process(request, approval, payment) and my withdraw hit neteller in under 12 hours.

Great experience from a new casino. I will be playing again in the near future.
 
oldmanhank said:
I made a cashout request late last night and I recieved an e-mail at each stage of the cashout process(request, approval, payment) and my withdraw hit neteller in under 12 hours.


I wish more places would do this. It definately wouldn't take much to setup...a simple webpage that connected to the db that would link email addresses with user acct #'s, choose the type of form letter to send, and viola...all done. And there's a nice paper trail for both the user and casino.

Let's just hope they don't get too comfortable once all the kinks are worked out and they're no longer working very hard to get new customers, and fall to the wayside like so many other casinos have done.

I still don't like the idea of certain members of the management team/owners wanting to remain anonymous. Or maybe they still don't have everyone in place yet and don't want to reveal that? :)
 
I try <being the operative word> not to shoot out about things I dont know about, so in regards to Paradise8 Ive downloaded the software to check it out. Didnt have any issues regarding the install process, signup or games download. Everything was smooth as silk.

Im yet to drop cash here, may drop $50 over the weekend and see how it fairs.

My point to all this is that as far as the software goes imo its pretty nice and certainly gives some of the well known current popular software a run for its money.

The only thing that makes me hesitant is history and when applied to the non disclosure of certain aspect of Pariside8 it makes me nervous. Im in no way comparing this group to Virtual, but, in the beginning they paid their winners too. Look what happen with the group.

At this point they <the casino> holds all the cards if they are wanting to have the community accept them as serious players then the blankets need to be lifted and the curtains pulled.
 
winbig72 said:
I wish more places would do this. It definately wouldn't take much to setup...a simple webpage that connected to the db that would link email addresses with user acct #'s, choose the type of form letter to send, and viola...all done. And there's a nice paper trail for both the user and casino.

Playtech do this partially - withdrawal confirmation, then processed confirmation, however they don't send an email to indicate when the money actually hits Neteller: from my experience it's anywhere from 2-12 hours after the 'processed' email, with no predictable pattern that I can discern.

MG annoys me in that regard - you get no email to confirm you made the withdrawal, and they usually can't even manage to update the status of their withdrawals in Cashcheck (I have withdrawals from months ago that still say 'In Progress'). Some MGs do send a message to indicate they processed it, but it's usually sent a few hours after the money hits Neteller, so by then I've usually noticed the money manually.

What also surprises me is the fact that Neteller now send an email for every single casino deposit I make, but they don't send anything when money is sent to me (excluding Peer-to-Peer). That is the exact opposite of what I want - I know when I've made a deposit to a casino, I dont need an email to confirm it; I want to know when money is sent to me!

Anyway, all this is off topic, so I'll shush now :)

(Just to bring it back on topic for a moment - there's no way I'm doing a casino's beta testing for them without being paid for it; I'll give this one a miss for a couple of months until they get to the point they should have been at launch.)
 
paradise

I tried this casino out when they were offering the free $20 and didn't like it at all. This morning my wife decides she's going to deposit at a sister site Cocoa Casino. She deposits $25 and claims the 200 % bonus for a starting bankroll of $75.
She goes to one of the I-slots called Bank Heist and starts wagering 75 cents a spin. Within 20 spins her entire bankroll is gone. How is this possible you might ask ? Well it turns out that if you get one of the numerous (so called) bonus rounds your wager gets jacked up to $3.75 a spin until the round is completed. Did she want to wager $3.75 a spin, no. Was there any way to avoid this, no. Did she even know the game had increased her bet, I doubt it. (she's a woman...lol)
In any event during this bonus round she gets a "last win, $100" message. I seen it myelf. Upon completion of the round it goes back to the regular slot and her bankroll is at $22. She then switches games and loses her remaing balance without a win. The entire session lasted no more than five minutes.
She then emails support asking what just went on and gets the following reply:

Dear Joyce,

I am currently looking into your issue but in the meantime I would like to refund your deposit back to your playing account. I am pleased to announce a lower slot limit in Real Crime:The Bank Heist. You can now bet $0.75 throughout the entire game!

Best regards,
Reviews department

Hahaha ! That's what she thought she was doing when she set her wager at 75 cents to begin with. Too funny! Of course we all know the rest of the story, she redownloaded the software and lost the $25 on some other slot without ever winning more than a free spin ($1.50) If she wagered more than $200 total out of the $25, $50,and $25 I'd be in total shock.
This entire session from start to finish was under ten minutes of gameplay.
To echo some of the opinions above, these I-slots are pretty decent in theory and could be very attractive to certain players as they're very different from anything out there but in my opinion the numerous software hangups, missing winning pays, and jacking of a players wagers midgame will definately not wash with most for long. Peace !
 

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