Nostalgia Cipher Strand

[cipher]

Well now that The Phoenician and Nostalgia casinos have signed on with the Casinomeister let's see what kind of special deal they have in store for the members of Casinomeister. After all Dean, remember that old phrase "Seeing is believing."

I've attached another session of free play from Nostalgia that I just finished.

If anyone has any concerns about the results of their real play session at Nostalgia casino over the next couple of days and you would like to have your real play session converted to a Cipher Strand, just request your log data files from Nostalgia, post them here and I'll convert that data to a Cipher Strand and that way I won't even be accused by Dean of cherry picking sessions to record or manipulating the data.

Hell, to make it interesting, I'll even do three sessions (one session per person) but for the sake of my time keep the sessions to 60 hands or less. Have a good one.

Cheers

 

[sw2003]

So are we supposed to draw any conclusions from this strand? This particular session doesn't look too bad compared with others from Phoenician that you have posted.

I sort of lost the point of your more recent posts! Whenever you post a strand, does it mean you are of the opinion that particular casino or software isn't quite fair or .... ?

 

[cipher]

So are we supposed to draw any conclusions from this strand? This particular session doesn't look too bad compared with others from Phoenician that you have posted.

I sort of lost the point of your more recent posts! Whenever you post a strand, does it mean you are of the opinion that particular casino or software isn't quite fair or .... ?

Well if you compare this session of free play to the results that you find in real play there is generally a sigificant difference. Have a good one.

 

[The Dude]

So are we supposed to draw any conclusions from this strand? This particular session doesn't look too bad compared with others from Phoenician that you have posted.

I sort of lost the point of your more recent posts! Whenever you post a strand, does it mean you are of the opinion that particular casino or software isn't quite fair or .... ?

You've lost me as well. I have no idea what these posts are all about. It's like you are incinuating that operators are able to pull switches or sprinkle magic fairy dust on their computers to make the software do certain things. RTG operators have no control over the software. They are merely managing the casinos.

 

[Sodax77]

You've lost me as well. I have no idea what these posts are all about. It's like you are incinuating that operators are able to pull switches or sprinkle magic fairy dust on their computers to make the software do certain things. RTG operators have no control over the software. They are merely managing the casinos.

I Agree that.

And i don't play BJ (maybe sometimes, but not regularly), neither collect any log-files, or checking "Cipher Strand's" never, etc

But i still have suggestion. If you are really interesting to proof something, why don't you (all) (who want) create some section to some forum, where people can send their log-files. Make some rules/standards to this log-center. And when you have millions and millions hand, and all log-files is review correctly. Just publish that. If this kind of site/forum-section is exist somewhere, you have to tell people! So they can be part of this (if they want).

 

[caruso]

I wouldn't make too many assumptions about who can do what with whatever software. There is no evidence to support the claim. RTG operators can 1) adjust number of decks and 2) set the payout on the pure slots; setting the payout on all the remaining "slots" - ie. table games I don't see as being remotely distict. Reels are spun / "cards" are dealt.

Any data posted publically is of great value insofar as anomalies may be brought to light. That they are not on any given session is not a disincentive to publish random data.

Cipher - clarification here: you can run any log files through your programme and get a stats breakdown? I'm not clear yet about the actual purpose of the programme (pure stats? "trends"?), but I'd be delighted to give you my Bodog results for analysis. There are many thousands of hands so it may be beyond your capacity, but I'd be a very worthwhile experiment.

 

[GrandMaster]

But i still have suggestion. If you are really interesting to proof something, why don't you (all) (who want) create some section to some forum, where people can send their log-files. Make some rules/standards to this log-center. And when you have millions and millions hand, and all log-files is review correctly. Just publish that. If this kind of site/forum-section is exist somewhere, you have to tell people! So they can be part of this (if they want).

Truegambler's Online Casino Analyzer is trying to do something like this. The problem with Cipher strands is that you have to enter the data by hand, so people could enter fake data or submit genuine data selectively.

 

[cipher]

You've lost me as well. I have no idea what these posts are all about. It's like you are incinuating that operators are able to pull switches or sprinkle magic fairy dust on their computers to make the software do certain things. RTG operators have no control over the software. They are merely managing the casinos.

You can choose to believe whatever you want to believe. Whatever that might be, is based only on what someone else has told you. I'd like to know what FACTS you might have to offer in support of a comment such as "They are merely managing the casinos."

What's happening between you and Realtime Gaming now Bryan is nothing different than what you where trying to set up last year by "posting the bail" for the clowns at Hampton and Delano casinos and totally trashing the pirate. It was all about the green then and it's all about the green now.

Now we have the same possibilities of the Crystal Palace coming back into play again. Fortunately a stake has finally be driven through the heart of the heart of Delano Casino or I guess you'd be trying to ressurect them as well.

Lastly Bryan, you havn't got a clue as to who you're dealing with as far as this Phoenician and Nostalgia number is concerned, but everytime you've chosen to get involved with anything RTG you've gotten burned badly.

 

[cipher]

I wouldn't make too many assumptions about who can do what with whatever software. There is no evidence to support the claim. RTG operators can 1) adjust number of decks and 2) set the payout on the pure slots; setting the payout on all the remaining "slots" - ie. table games I don't see as being remotely distict. Reels are spun / "cards" are dealt.

Any data posted publically is of great value insofar as anomalies may be brought to light. That they are not on any given session is not a disincentive to publish random data.

Cipher - clarification here: you can run any log files through your programme and get a stats breakdown? I'm not clear yet about the actual purpose of the programme (pure stats? "trends"?), but I'd be delighted to give you my Bodog results for analysis. There are many thousands of hands so it may be beyond your capacity, but I'd be a very worthwhile experiment.

Hi Caruso, I've emailed you an email address that will handle any size file you want to send incident to the aforementioned BoDog files. Have a good one.

 

[bpb]

You can choose to believe whatever you want to believe. Whatever that might be, is based only on what someone else has told you. I'd like to know what FACTS you might have to offer in support of a comment such as "They are merely managing the casinos."

I'd love to know what FACTS you have to offer in support of the view that no online casino deals a fair table game.

All I see are is the continual posting of statistically insignificant samples of hands.

I have not once seen anyone post a set of logs that suggest that RTG or Microgaming is not giving a fair deal.

 

[cipher]

I'd love to know what FACTS you have to offer in support of the view that no online casino deals a fair table game.

All I see are is the continual posting of statistically insignificant samples of hands.

I have not once seen anyone post a set of logs that suggest that RTG or Microgaming is not giving a fair deal.

I couldn't care less about what you've seen or what you havn't seen.

 

[bethug]

bpb, why should cipher post in detail what he has, people not going to believe it anyway. For some reason people think the casinos or the software compaines deal a fair game, i have played way to many hours on land and online to be fooled. Each software and sometimes casino i have to play a different way.

 

[Black21Jack]

You can't win here. No matter what you say people will say the opposite, just like I posted a while back in a few threads. If cipher posted his strands in support of a particular casino software people would jump down his throat for that too. I find his posts useful and interesting, and if I didn't I would not read the thread.

 

[bewitch]

LOL~ Pretty truth...

Ciper, when will you arrive Vegas?

 

[The Dude]

You can choose to believe whatever you want to believe. Whatever that might be, is based only on what someone else has told you. I'd like to know what FACTS you might have to offer in support of a comment such as "They are merely managing the casinos."

What's happening between you and Realtime Gaming now Bryan is nothing different than what you where trying to set up last year by "posting the bail" for the clowns at Hampton and Delano casinos and totally trashing the pirate. It was all about the green then and it's all about the green now.

Now we have the same possibilities of the Crystal Palace coming back into play again. Fortunately a stake has finally be driven through the heart of the heart of Delano Casino or I guess you'd be trying to ressurect them as well.

Lastly Bryan, you havn't got a clue as to who you're dealing with as far as this Phoenician and Nostalgia number is concerned, but everytime you've chosen to get involved with anything RTG you've gotten burned badly.

Cipher, this is my god damn forum, and when I question what your posts are all about, I do not expect this as part of your reply. "It was all about the green then and it's all about the green now." "Posting the Bail"?? "but everytime you've chosen to get involved with anything RTG you've gotten burned badly"

Where in the f*** have I been burned?! What the hell is going on in your head when you reply like this?

Imagine me really pissed off, because that is what I am at the moment. You don't make statements like this and don't think I will not take them seriously. I can take criticism, but to imply that I'm on the take or making bumbling decisions was way out of line.

If you wanted an open dialogue between the operators and software provider and your data - then you should have approached me and arranged this. I could have set up a specific section have all of this reviewed in public, or private, or whatever. But to trash me when I question what is going on in my forum in unacceptable.

 

[DeMango]

Truth is a rare commodity in this industry but we must for the sake of others and our wallets find it. We have all seen some zany runs playing table games on these casinos. I hope that FairDice or TrueGambler can prove or insure a fair game for all. I know my results have been .5 to 1.5 less than expected value for BJ at some of the leading software providors. I await software (via mail) from Stanley - its my last attempt at a fair game!

 

[bethug]

bryan, the only thiing that will work is random testing , when you tell a casino or software compnay someone going to test it, i am for sure they will deal a fair game. When they audit my books, i dont know when they coming.

also cipher software everytime i see shows a win, he must know something we dont

 

[caruso]

I hope that FairDice or TrueGambler can prove or insure a fair game for all.

Amen, brother. I can't think of a statement I could agree more whole-heartedly with.

Honest, independent, verifiable regulation.

Excuse me while I dream a bit.

 

[spearmaster]

What bethug said.

The strand shows a win - so is Cipher just posting normal results or are we supposed to see something in there that indicates that some abnormality is present? Or are we supposed to be starting some sort of conspiracy LOL...

I think everyone can take this discussion down about five notches - personally I do not see anything wrong on either side, except a couple of you letting emotions get the better of you (not that it doesn't happen to me either LOL).

 

[cipher]

LOL~ Pretty truth...

Ciper, when will you arrive Vegas?

Hi Bewitch;

I live in the central San Joaquin Valley in California and from the time "wheels are up" it takes me about 25 minutes to get to Vegas. So I'm not locked into any particular time of arrival or fortunately departure. But if you're going to be there I won't miss the opportunity to get together. Have a good one.

 

[cipher]

What bethug said.

The strand shows a win - so is Cipher just posting normal results or are we supposed to see something in there that indicates that some abnormality is present? Or are we supposed to be starting some sort of conspiracy LOL...

Hi Spear; The fact is simply this, using Cipher I track a session of Blackjack from a non-RTG casino and then from an RTG casino. It's up to the individual to read whatever they want in or out of the Cipher strands. If the individual sees something that's fine and if they don't that's fine too. End of story. Have a good one.

 

[jerseyguy11]

its pointless to keep discussing the "is this casino fair, is RTG fair" issues again and again. I have to admit that I wouldnt have listened to any of it 3 years ago. People just need to learn for themselves I suppose.

 

[cipher]

Cipher, this is my god damn forum, and when I question what your posts are all about, I do not expect this as part of your reply. "It was all about the green then and it's all about the green now." "Posting the Bail"?? "but everytime you've chosen to get involved with anything RTG you've gotten burned badly"

Where in the f*** have I been burned?! What the hell is going on in your head when you reply like this?

Imagine me really pissed off, because that is what I am at the moment. You don't make statements like this and don't think I will not take them seriously. I can take criticism, but to imply that I'm on the take or making bumbling decisions was way out of line.

If you wanted an open dialogue between the operators and software provider and your data - then you should have approached me and arranged this. I could have set up a specific section have all of this reviewed in public, or private, or whatever. But to trash me when I question what is going on in my forum in unacceptable.

Bryan;

Don't you ever labor under the dillusion Bryan that can talk down to me. I won't take it from you or anyone else for that matter. You try that kind of "BS" with me and you can expect both barrels back from me my friend.

The fact of the matter is this. For months now the Cipher strands have been viewed by one hell of a lot of people on this forum and with the exception of less than a handfull (INCLUDING YOURSELF) everyone seems to have gotten something out of them. If you havn't, I'm sorry, it's not my job to be all things to all people all of the time.

 

[bpb]

Bryan;

Don't you ever labor under the dillusion Bryan that can talk down to me. I won't take it from you or anyone else for that matter. You try that kind of "BS" with me and you can expect both barrels back from me my friend.

I'm pretty sure you're the one who talked down to him.

For that matter, do you actually read any of the comments posted, or do you just fly off the handle as soon as you see anything that isn't in 100% agreement with you. Rational responses to arguments typically work better than violent accusations.

 

[cipher]

I'm pretty sure you're the one who talked down to him.

For that matter, do you actually read any of the comments posted, or do you just fly off the handle as soon as you see anything that isn't in 100% agreement with you. Rational responses to arguments typically work better than violent accusations.

Try this bpb, that matter is between Bryan and I. Had it anything to do with you it would have been addressed to you. Understand?

 

[The Dude]

Bryan;

Don't you ever labor under the dillusion Bryan that can talk down to me. I won't take it from you or anyone else for that matter. You try that kind of "BS" with me and you can expect both barrels back from me my friend.
...

What is BS is your attitude. I made the comment that I didn't understand where you were going with all of these Cipher strands. You have implied that RTG operators have been rigging the games. And by the way, I could not give a flying rat's ass if they are Casinomeister casinos or not - but if you are going to be using my forum to rag on a software provider, or operators for that matter, let's make this clear cut and understandable.

You've lost me as well. I have no idea what these posts are all about.

My comment caused you to fire off some bullshit that I am on the take. And then you have the audacity to continue this nonsense.

The fact of the matter is this. For months now the Cipher strands have been viewed by one hell of a lot of people on this forum and with the exception of less than a handfull (INCLUDING YOURSELF) everyone seems to have gotten something out of them. If you havn't, I'm sorry, it's not my job to be all things to all people all of the time.

I've been looking them over like everyone else. And???

I suggest you pack your attitude and keep your comments to yourself, or just take a break from the forum.

 

[cynowoo]

everyone would stick to his own opinion.

but from the experience of over 50K hands at Phoenican and Nostalgia ,

at least I would support the point that the winning probability depends on the BET size

Once you bet big enough , $200, $500 sth , the nightmare is starting...

 

[cipher]

everyone would stick to his own opinion.

but from the experience of over 50K hands at Phoenican and Nostalgia ,

at least I would support the point that the winning probability depends on the BET size

Once you bet big enough , $200, $500 sth , the nightmare is starting...

Hi Cynowoo; I've PM'd you with an email address that you can send your log data files to if you care to request your log data files from the Phoenician or Nostalgia. I'd be happy to merge those files into a rather substantial data base that I started putting together some 4 months ago. Have a good one.

 

[jerseyguy11]

yo cipher, can you PM me your email address again. I dug up a few months worth of logs from grandbanks/onluck/blackwidow when they were RTG. Still trying to get the rest.

PM me your email and ill send em.

 

[cipher]

yo cipher, can you PM me your email address again. I dug up a few months worth of logs from grandbanks/onluck/blackwidow when they were RTG. Still trying to get the rest.

PM me your email and ill send em.

DONE

 

[sw2003]

Truegambler's Online Casino Analyzer is trying to do something like this. The problem with Cipher strands is that you have to enter the data by hand, so people could enter fake data or submit genuine data selectively.

Data contamination is always a big problem unless you have a video camera recording clearly the sessions as well!

 

[sw2003]

I hope that FairDice or TrueGambler can prove or insure a fair game for all.

Amen to that too! I hope FairDice will come sooner rather than later!

I wonder can you Masters (Spear, Casino, Grand, Sword, Small, Large .... etc), jetset, blackjet, bluejet .... etc talk to the casino people to see if this can be pushed? A lot of players would be a lot happier if they can be assured that the dice throw is fair or the random numbers can be guaranteed to be fair through initiatives such as FairDice?

 

[The Dude]

Well, I woke up this morning hoping that Cipher would have taken the time to explain some of the comments directed at me. Unfortunately, he has let this slide.

It was all about the green then and it's all about the green now.

Most of the people who are personally acquainted with me know the kind of money I've turned down from unscrupulous operators. And after last July's Playtech fiasco, I turned down three separate Playtech campaigns that were pending. So this thoughtless comment is what is prompting me to remove you from the forum for the next two weeks.

Your removal has nothing to do with the Cipher logs, etc., your removal is because of your attitude. This is my forum, and as your host I will have your respect. Simple as that. If you disagree with this, then take your business elsewhere.

Everyone here should understand that I do not take this lightly, verbally attacking other members will not be tolerated. And if you feel that making unsubstantiated belligerent comments towards me is necessary, then you will find yourself out on sidewalk looking up at the stars.

 

[largeeyes]

Thank the lord.....no more cipher strings.......

 

[caruso]

Speaking as a long time player, equally fervent player advocate and one not unused to the form master stun gun himself: that's a great shame for players in general. On the matter of the above disparaging comment about Cipher's strand posts: let me repeat that ALL published data is valuable, whatever the reason, since 1) it can serendipitously reveal anomolies and 2) it makes a gesture towards saying "we're watching you" to the Bad Boys. These posts should be ENCOURAGED. Any players making smart alec disparaging comments need to look at where their priorities lie - the posts are made with your interests in mind. On the matter of the corruption charge which led to this: I hope Bryan can understand how tempers can get heated in these situations, when people question the obviously diligent work someone is putting in; that Cipher can appreciate how remarks such as those will inevitably and not unreasonably have this consequence; and that both of them can sort this little contretemp out with calmer heads.

 

[DeMango]

I trust you all will shortly meet in Vegas and come to peaceable terms. In the absense of something like FairDice, all we have are people who gather statistics. We expect a fair and even game - no six aces in a hand, no five dealer BJ's in a row, no losing 180 hands out of 210 as has recently been alleged. Any and all posters who gather and post relevant information is welcome by me and I really expect all should feel that way. I do wish the Cipher strands were put together as a running total, but I believe his point was that trends were indentifiable and exploitable. That may be voodoo but if the RNG produce these trends then it would be gospel! Who knows except the search continues and truth must be unearthed!
Cheers! (and PEACE!)

 

[jerseyguy11]

Speaking as a long time player, equally fervent player advocate and one not unused to the form master stun gun himself: that's a great shame for players in general. On the matter of the above disparaging comment about Cipher's strand posts: let me repeat that ALL published data is valuable, whatever the reason, since 1) it can serendipitously reveal anomolies and 2) it makes a gesture towards saying "we're watching you" to the Bad Boys. These posts should be ENCOURAGED. Any players making smart alec disparaging comments need to look at where their priorities lie - the posts are made with your interests in mind. On the matter of the corruption charge which led to this: I hope Bryan can understand how tempers can get heated in these situations, when people question the obviously diligent work someone is putting in; that Cipher can appreciate how remarks such as those will inevitably and not unreasonably have this consequence; and that both of them can sort this little contretemp out with calmer heads.

nicely stated

 

[bethug]

largeeyes , you didnt have to look at them
As a player , i think cipher is the best assest this forum has and it sad he got ban

 

[Black21Jack]

Thank the lord.....no more cipher strings.......

You make it seem like they are affecting you in a negative way or something. Don't read the friggin the threads then. Holy cow!

 

[The Dude]

Please don't get me wrong, read carefully what I have said -- I have nothing against the "strands", it was Cipher's attitude towards the forum members, me, and my forum that I had a problem with. He's welcome to participate in a rational non-belligerent manner.

I told him I'm ready to talk when he mellows out.

 

[cynowoo]

I understand and respect your response on cipers' word.

banning away of 2 weeks is enough , CIPHER is a great guy both in character and professional skills.

Hope u guys would understand each other.

Please don't get me wrong, read carefully what I have said -- I have nothing against the "strands", it was Cipher's attitude towards the forum members, me, and my forum that I had a probelm with. He's welcome to participate in a rational non-belligerent manner.

I told him I'm ready to talk when he mellows out.

 

[Black21Jack]

CIPHER is a great guy both in character and professional skills.

Hope u guys would understand each other.

I agree. I will not voice my opinion on his banning as it is Bryan's forum and it is his sole decision on who he allows here and who he does not. I look forward to cipher's return, and more posts of his cipher strands. I too hope that Cm and cipher work out their problems.

 

[jerseyguy11]

ditto

 

[largeeyes]

I don't want to turn this thread into strand central, but quite honestly, they have no value. You can't just randomly take little snippets and hold them up as some proof of a conspiracy theory. It's a bit like the Hood 3000 system. Nothing but hot air that can only lead to confuse and mislead people.

 

[bpb]

I don't want to turn this thread into strand central, but quite honestly, they have no value. You can't just randomly take little snippets and hold them up as some proof of a conspiracy theory. It's a bit like the Hood 3000 system. Nothing but hot air that can only lead to confuse and mislead people.

Seconded.

Providing information and allowing people to draw their own conclusions is one thing. Providing information, calling it the smoking gun that proves that casino XYZ is rigging their deal, and damning anyone who says otherwise, is quite another.

 

[bethug]

largeeyes, and bpb, please click my sig
i have a few word for you

 

[Black21Jack]

Seconded.

Providing information and allowing people to draw their own conclusions is one thing. Providing information, calling it the smoking gun that proves that casino XYZ is rigging their deal, and damning anyone who says otherwise, is quite another.

cipher never said that it proves any casino is rigging their software. He posts strands on certain casinos, states his opinion and leaves it for people to come to their own conclusions.

 

[sw2003]

I think it is sad that Cipher got banned for 2 weeks! He probably had a really bad day before he started firing off at Bryan. Anyway I thought it was nice to have someone providing analyses on the gameplay from various softwares on a regular basis. Otherwise we will just have to take whatever results that the casinos dare to throw at us like we are a bunch of gullible idiots.

 

[The Dude]

I think it is sad that Cipher got banned for 2 weeks! He probably had a really bad day before he started firing off at Bryan. Anyway I thought it was nice to have someone providing analyses on the gameplay from various softwares on a regular basis. Otherwise we will just have to take whatever results that the casinos dare to throw at us like we are a bunch of gullible idiots.

Perhaps we were both having a bad day. He's been notified that he's welcome back under a gentlemen's agreement that we're to keep things civil.

 

[caruso]

...Otherwise we will just have to take whatever results that the casinos dare to throw at us like we are a bunch of gullible idiots.

There are currently enough genuine projects out there for this to be entirely not the case. The OCA is still around, and Fairdice will hopefully get themselves together before long. That in addition to Cipher's programme, whatever its exact purpose may be.

My forecast is that the fat lady is currently clearing her throat for online casino cheating scum software.