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But to be fair mate, you do seem to defend him blindly. For you he can do no wrong.... Or so it seems
North Korea and US politics
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But to be fair mate, you do seem to defend him blindly. For you he can do no wrong.... Or so it seems
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I'm starting to go off Trump, part of his appeal to me was his approach to issues, which was different to the typical puppet 'actor' politician, but some of his decisions and manner are starting to annoy me. Tearing up the nuclear arms agreement with russia, committing the US to borrow and spend trillions more on weapons that could wipe out life on the planet seems idiotic in every aspect.
The whole sucking at the teet of saudia arabia, where people guilty of various non crimes are beheaded publicly in the street, has gone on for years and because the USA needs their oil and money Trump is committed to carrying on this immoral bunkum.
His deal making technique seems to consist only of bullying, which the US and partners [the uk etc..] have already been doing for the last 30 years to no good end, 'accept these terms or its economic/actual war if you don't'.
And to me these bomb parcels are just more 24hr rolling news exaggerated soap opera; divide and rule, climate of fear and anxiety, identity politics crap.
The whole sucking at the teet of saudia arabia, where people guilty of various non crimes are beheaded publicly in the street, has gone on for years and because the USA needs their oil and money Trump is committed to carrying on this immoral bunkum.
His deal making technique seems to consist only of bullying, which the US and partners [the uk etc..] have already been doing for the last 30 years to no good end, 'accept these terms or its economic/actual war if you don't'.
And to me these bomb parcels are just more 24hr rolling news exaggerated soap opera; divide and rule, climate of fear and anxiety, identity politics crap.
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Not really, Trump has been Trump from day one of his campaign. I knew what we were getting. There is no use in bashing him relentlessly.
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Good to read that your are finally seeing through the smoke screen mate.
You call is soap opera, i think that is an "insult" to that TV format.....IMO it has gone far below that level.....pure trash TV show as to be expected when you know just a little about Mr. T's life.
Remember how 'slotplayer' and 'lockinlove' lauded him into heaven for having defeated ISIS. Of course, it wasn't that battle plan drawn up 2 years earlier that led to ISIS being pushed back from most of their occupied territories, it was commander "Bone Spurs" who achieved it all. However, I and many others have always said ISIS will never be completely defeated. Two days ago, they staged their biggest assault of this year, killing 68 Syrian rebels. Yeah, defeated, my a**.
.... But commander "Bons Spurs" declared as always victory with no proof whatsoever and his supporters go wild from soooo much "winning".And every time you are trying to discuss or debate, they come out with "but Hillary, but Obama, but emails, but Lybia, but Bernie" etc etc....no substance whatsoever.
BTW, GDP growth slowed from 4.2% in the second quarter to 3.5% in the third quarter while the deficit has soared. "The tax cut will pay for itself", "Trade wars are easy to win", "Tariffs are good"..... Gotta love the comment from Kudlow regarding China (and this is a top advisor to the president), just shows how clueless this administration is operating.
"We gave them a detailed list of asks, regarding technology for example, which basically hasn't changed for five or six months. The problem with the story is that they don't respond. Nothing. Nada. It's really the President and the Chinese Communist party, they have to make a decision and so far they have not, or they have made a decision not to do anything, nothing. I've never seen anything like it."
The Chinese probably had a good laugh.
In the meantime, he has removed the US from every treaty/agreement/trade deal/etc that he could with no replacement plan whatsoever other than threatening, as you said, economic/actual war.EDIT: Just been reading my news feed...yet another mass shooting and Mr. T of course declares "the problem is not the guns, we need armed guards in churches" ....i rest my case
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FYI
Aurora: AR-15
Orlando: AR-15
Parkland: AR-15
Las Vegas: AR-15
Sandy Hook: AR-15
Umpqua CC: AR-15
Waffle House: AR-15
Texas Church: AR-15
San Bernardino: AR-15
Tree of Life Synagogue: AR-15
To name a few.
Sadly.
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What surprises me is that none of you trump supporters have made the connection yet.
If he's going to spread poison don’t act like it’s not his fault when things start to die.
Cuz that’s what he does. He spreads poison.
And the death of shame in this country is appalling.
Used to be that lying, was a bad thing, a shameful thing. Used to be able to keep politicians in check in fear of the shame they would bring to themselves, their party and their family. But nope. No shame whatsoever.
Cheating the IRS should have been a shameful thing. But nope. He gets a free pass.
Cheating and lying.
Yes he hasn’t changed. Doesn’t mean it’s right what he does.
Why should we be quiet when all he does is spread lies. About everything.
This is what we’ve come to.
A bad trashy movie where the whole world is watching.
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But his core supporters love him regardless... To them he is one of them. Anti-estabilshment, Anti-Gun-Control, Anti-Abortion, anti-everything that doesn't stand for isolationist "America Is The Best" when clearly it is not.
And that is what is so worrying about the way America is going. Politicians are no longer held to account. The press is polarised. The people are polarised. Lying is now normalised and almost encouraged.
Everything about the direction America is going seems bad from the outside. Is that because we only see the bad side?
History will tell us I guess...the problem is we have to wait for it to be written. But I'm yet to hear a cogent argument from a Trump supporter about why he is a good thing...
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Why do you assume nobody made/makes the connection, that's a leap on your behalf, we're just not overly sensitive about it.
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How many more bombs and how many more people have to die to make you sensitive enough?
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I don't quite see the comparison... We don't have a president of Europe - Europe is not a country. We don't have mass shootings all the time. We don't have a "Make Europe Great Again" isolationist policy. Nothing about the US and Europe is similar now really.
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Its just more blame Trump.
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No doubt the mass shooting are horrific but so are those acid attacks in the UK. Its all bad.
btw, Make America Great Again is not new.
1980
1991
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I don't think its trillions, I think its around 700 billion.
Oil imports/exports
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No... Its not blaming Trump. He hasn't created the problem but he's certainly doing nothing to help it... That's what you fail to see. He's followed through on what he said he would do and in some respects that's actually a good thing....
But...
He's started a trade war he almost certainly won't win. His economic policies are very likely to fail. He promotes violence (
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). He is Pro more guns. Anti abortion rights. He insults the press, the disabled, etc. He is the laughing stock of the world (UN video?) And yet you still think he's this great man?I don't get it. I will admit Brexit is a mess and our politics is too... Why can't you admit Trump is a disaster?
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And are seriously suggesting with that the few acid attacks in the UK are in any way comparable to the multiple mass shootings in the US? How can you honestly say that with a straight face....
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I think it's more the massive arms deals that are the problem...
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yeah you might be right there, obama apparently already signed off a big spending plan to upgrade the existing nuclear weapons, so it could be trump's pronouncements were basically a rehash of agreements already made, similar in a way to the nato increased expenditure plans agreed by obama and then regurgitated by Donald.
It does say on the 'starTribune' online newspaper site:
"It is also a necessary first step to reducing the staggering costs of the Trump administration’s planned nuclear modernization program — now well over a trillion dollars."
and from the nytimes oct 2017:
"The price tag of President Trump’s vision of remaking the American nuclear arsenal soared on Tuesday as a new government estimate put the cost of a 30-year makeover at $1.2 trillion, more than 20 percent higher than earlier figures."
Whether its 700 billion or 1 trillion +, its still a heck of a lot of money to be spent on something that's only purpose would be the total destruction of life/civilisation on earth.
Maybe for the majority of americans who voted for Trump this issue is at the top of their list of things they want the president to spend their money on, but it wouldn't be at top of my list. The uk govt is doing a similar thing and has committed to building three new nuclear submarines to the cost of 30 billion, no doubt it will probably cost another 20 billion on top, and then they'll tell us 'oh im sorry we can't afford to run this hospital, we're closing it'.
I hoped Trump was going to act more according to 'common sense', be more isolationist and less a war hawk looking for military confrontation, in the middle and far east, plus with russia. In any case the democrats don't seem to be getting any better, or putting up a decent new candidate with common sense, why did they think Hillary, with bill in tow, was the best person for president
It's the same here, Theresa may's not the best person to be our prime minister, but we've been lumbered with her, and the alternatives being laid before us are jeremy corbyn, vince cable or boris johnson, what a friggin jokers lineup. 
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More whataboutism...as expected.
Obama tried to change gun laws, especially after Sandy Hook, and the GOP controlled senate didn't even put it to a vote or voted it down, can't remember which.
Mr. T doesn't even think about changing gun laws. In contrary, it is all the time more guns and more guns....in schools, in universities etc. etc. and now in churches....plus bigger military, plus more nukes. And that is coming from commander "Bone Spurs", for somebody who didn't want to carry a gun in battle he surely like to have them now everywhere, even in space.
Funny, that for him, the GOP and a good part of the US population the shooters are always sick or mentally deranged or whatnot, while all the time completely ignoring the fact that every US citizen can buy an unlimited arms arsenal with enough ammunition to wipe out a small city. Where in the 2nd amendment is that mentioned?
And no, most are not sick or deranged. They are normal US citizen who bought their guns and ammo legally and decided they have the right to use them, be it out of anger, revenge, misguided beliefs, incendiary rhetoric from the leaders, especially Mr. T etc.
Just hours after his sombre statement about antisemitism having no place in the US, he went on Twitter to verbally attack Jews or descendants of Jewish families as "lunatics".
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To his credit, I do remember Obama attempting to tackle gun control, fairly early on I believe. He gave it a good go but got rebuffed pretty harshly.
It was something I quite admired him for, albeit he was banging his head against a wall
It was something I quite admired him for, albeit he was banging his head against a wall
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No matter if it is $700 million or trillions....the US will still have to borrow the money and with that will burden your future generations even more. But then Mr. T never cared about borrowing money, he hardly ever repaid it anyway.
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“The Fake News is doing everything in their power to blame Republicans, Conservatives and me for the division and hatred that has been going on for so long in our Country. Actually, it is their Fake & Dishonest reporting which is causing problems far greater than they understand!“
“There is great anger in our Country caused in part by inaccurate, and even fraudulent, reporting of the news. The Fake News Media, the true Enemy of the People, must stop the open & obvious hostility & report the news accurately & fairly. That will do much to put out the flame...”
This is whAt he says after this horrific week. Like I said people are surprised that things die when you spread poison.
Fake news. This fake news.
The caravan is full of Middle Easterners and criminals, and it’s funded by wealthy Jews? Fake news.
Entire populations” that might have “diseases” are trying to come to America. Fake news.
Immigrants are an “infestation” who bring diseases and cast illegal ballots? Fake news.
The Democrats want to open the borders and give illegal immigrants cars? Fake news.
Football players won’t stand for the anthem because they don’t respect veterans or love our country? Fake news.
Trans people enlist in the military to get expensive surgeries, then lurk in bathrooms and molest children?
Fake news.
And the list goes on and on...you wanna talk fake news. Fox and their shows.... tucker, hannity, ingaham, judge pirri,
Etc...do their best to peddle this hate rhetoric on their shows...
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yes, you don't get it. Trump has an America First agenda. That is why he was elected. Enough people got sick and tired of the being sold out by the politicians time and time again over 2-3 decades. One example, over the past 25-30 years, every time some one mentions the US building/funding a school or doing for another country, the reply always is why don't they build a new school here or do that here?
No doubt "T" should tone it down but I know "T" is only being sarcastic when he mentions violence just like Maxine Waters is in this video.
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Its not poison to me, exaggerated and a couple are over the top but also some truth in them. I doubt trans people lurk in bathrooms but do they join the military for the benefits? People join the military for the benefits all the time.
Do illegals vote? Not in national elections, yet but local elections yes and that is the seed.
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I watch the fox shows, I don't see any hate rhetoric peddling, I see the stokes of division all the time on CNN.
Just head over to to youTube and query cnn don lemon trump and see what you get. All negative.
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yeah you might be right there, obama apparently already signed off a big spending plan to upgrade the existing nuclear weapons, so it could be trump's pronouncements were basically a rehash of agreements already made, similar in a way to the nato increased expenditure plans agreed by obama and then regurgitated by Donald.
It does say on the 'starTribune' online newspaper site:
"It is also a necessary first step to reducing the staggering costs of the Trump administration’s planned nuclear modernization program — now well over a trillion dollars."
and from the nytimes oct 2017:
"The price tag of President Trump’s vision of remaking the American nuclear arsenal soared on Tuesday as a new government estimate put the cost of a 30-year makeover at $1.2 trillion, more than 20 percent higher than earlier figures."
Whether its 700 billion or 1 trillion +, its still a heck of a lot of money to be spent on something that's only purpose would be the total destruction of life/civilisation on earth.
Maybe for the majority of americans who voted for Trump this issue is at the top of their list of things they want the president to spend their money on, but it wouldn't be at top of my list. The uk govt is doing a similar thing and has committed to building three new nuclear submarines to the cost of 30 billion, no doubt it will probably cost another 20 billion on top, and then they'll tell us 'oh im sorry we can't afford to run this hospital, we're closing it'.
I hoped Trump was going to act more according to 'common sense', be more isolationist and less a war hawk looking for military confrontation, in the middle and far east, plus with russia. In any case the democrats don't seem to be getting any better, or putting up a decent new candidate with common sense, why did they think Hillary, with bill in tow, was the best person for president
A 30 year makeover? Is that a typical evaluation? So much can change in 30 years.
Are you idealist or a pragmatist?
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Duty calls so I will bid you all a farewell for now.
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I use to be an idealist on all matters when I was younger but I'm probably half and half now, more pragmatic except on certain issues like wars where I'm still an idealist. 30 years is a long time but once the contracts are signed for military equipment the money starts getting spent, as its nuclear arms it will probably be a lot of in house costs rather than just profit for lockheed or whoever.
I watched a bit of ann coulter's interviews on youtube and she is also starting to feel trump is selling out his base and expending too much time and effort on foreign affairs - north korea, iran, syria etc.. employing family members as advisers. And right or wrong he should stick to his election promises, otherwise they might as well voted for jeb, marco or ted; if he builds that wall he swore to do and then the americans decide they don't like it, so vote democrat, they can pull it down.
They didn't vote trump in, as far as I understand, for more pointless wars and conflict with russia, which won't improve their lives one iota. He's starting to come across as a shyster, twisting and turning this way and that but like I mentioned in my previous post, the democrats don't seem able or want to move back to the centre ground and field a middle of the road candidate for the presidency, the kavanaugh inquest was all I needed to watch to understand how bad the democrats have become. what a soap opera mess that was.
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and you can head on over there to youtube and put fox news obama.
fox news clinton.
ALL NEGATIVE.
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It's not even close, Fox is anti-policy, the left has gone beyond even being unreasonably negative.
Hannity sums it up.
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it is reall funny that when it comes to gun laws you are hanging desperately to an amendment that was drawn up more than two centuries ago, claiming to be valid in modern times but at the same time you quote: "One example, over the past 25-30 years, every time some one mentions the US building/funding a school or doing for another country, the reply always is why don't they build a new school here or do that here?" and conveniently forget the history of the last few centuries.
One example: The US has ravaged the African continent for decades, destroying complete generations of people by enslaving them while at the same time pillaging the countries of any valuable natural resource they had. Do you think by building a school that "debt" has been repaid? It won't be, even in 500 years.
As for your "America First" agenda, please read again my comment in the old thread. I'll repeat the main message:
Go on, build a wall around the entire country, call your people and military back, repay all your debts to other countries, take the US off the world map as the global policeman and lock yourself up in your country. You can then live your "America First" dream to eternity with everyone being armed to his/her teeth. But be prepared to pay $6,000 for an iPhone, minimum double the prize for a car etc.
In essence, you want all the advantages of globalism but are not prepared to take the other parts, nor take responsibility for your actions around the world. Bravo!
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That is why I asked you if you were an idealist, most times your're a pragmatist except when it comes to National Security. For me I try and not second guess government officials on National Security, only because I'm not privy to the briefings.
Trump: I think he's kept quite a few promises. Not the wall yet though but you say what I say build the wall, if it doesn't work you can always take it down. Gonna need it more than ever now, with more caravans forming. That situation is going to heat up.
In the past I was not an Anne Coulter fan (nor a Hannity or even a Republican for that matter), of course that was before the democratic party took a far left turn to crazyville.
Went and voted today, early voting here, for some reason I was not on the roster so they called city hall and wrote me in.
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it is reall funny that when it comes to gun laws you are hanging desperately to an amendment that was drawn up more than two centuries ago, claiming to be valid in modern times but at the same time you quote: "One example, over the past 25-30 years, every time some one mentions the US building/funding a school or doing for another country, the reply always is why don't they build a new school here or do that here?" and conveniently forget the history of the last few centuries.
One example: The US has ravaged the African continent for decades, destroying complete generations of people by enslaving them while at the same time pillaging the countries of any valuable natural resource they had. Do you think by building a school that "debt" has been repaid? It won't be, even in 500 years.
As for your "America First" agenda, please read again my comment in the old thread. I'll repeat the main message:
Go on, build a wall around the entire country, call your people and military back, repay all your debts to other countries, take the US off the world map as the global policeman and lock yourself up in your country. You can then live your "America First" dream to eternity with everyone being armed to his/her teeth. But be prepared to pay $6,000 for an iPhone, minimum double the prize for a car etc.
In essence, you want all the advantages of globalism but are not prepared to take the other parts, nor take responsibility for your actions around the world. Bravo!
Oh my another one of your hate America rants I usually just skip over.
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Oh my, yet again an answer with no substance other than deflecting. Bravo!
FYI, I am just as critical of the UK, Spain, Portugal, The Netherlands and others for what they did during the colonialism years. But then, you can only call "hate America" because you are not capable to own up to your history or to debate properly.
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Stop.
They are the fake news.
They are negative.
They spread propaganda.
Liars. Just like our president.
For example....just yesterday they were talking about how the caravan is filled with diseases...someone even mentioned leprocy.
they will bring leprocy to america.
The caravan is about two months away. We are sending 5000 troops to the borders now.
All propaganda.
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I usually stay out of these discussions but I stumpled upon this masterpiece from Fox News. When you watch the original video and trust in what she is saying you get the impression Denmark is one of the worst places in the world.
Actually everything she says is wrong and just made up. Watch the answer from Dan Jorgenson. Its hilarious.
I wonder who allows people like her to be on television and tell lies like she did? I bet she cant even find Denmark on a map of the world.
Actually everything she says is wrong and just made up. Watch the answer from Dan Jorgenson. Its hilarious.
I wonder who allows people like her to be on television and tell lies like she did? I bet she cant even find Denmark on a map of the world.
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Well, this Fox rant about Denmark is quite shocking! This truly is FAKE news.
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Just like about 90% what you see and hear on Fox News. There are only a few exceptions like Shep Smith who often denounces his colleagues for spreading lies and fake news.
Like this week with the caravan:
Fox News - it is an invasion; sick people with smallpox, leprosy, measles, rubella, TB are in the caravan, etc. etc. (a simple google search would have shown them that smallpox has been eradicated decades ago and for the others they have no proof whatsoever) But on Fox everything goes that stokes the fear and amplifies Mr. T's lies.
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Having watched a bit more of anne coulter, I'm certainly not a fan of her either [her views on the iraq war and just plain mean rudeness towards other people are big negatives to me] but I think her point about Trump expending all this energy on foreign policy issues and placing more importance on them [by the amount of time spent on them] above domestic issues is valid. I think the ratio of time spent on domestic to foreign issues should be 8:2. We had it with blair and cameron, the obsession with the middle east and obeying EU diktats.
Hannity has always annoyed me with his tabloid approach and manner, trying to rile people up and talking over guests, just an obnoxious person really. But then if you watch the other tv channels who are anti trump they've also got some very annoying, disingenuous presenters. The Fox ones look like they're all hand picked by rupert murdoch, very similar to the type of 'journalists' and presenters working for him here over the years like richard littlejohn, or kay burley on sky tv where Mr Murdoch had/has a big share holding. Some are okay like that lou dobbs bloke, but I think he's just a bit more polite and subtle, he is still a neo con at heart.
I did wonder the other day after posting that point about the wall, how the situation had been managed for the last 100 years, Mexico and the USA have always shared a border, why is there such a problem now, could they solve it another way with strict identity cards or something?
My 'liberal' solution would be to help mexico and the other failed countries in central/south america to sort themselves out so that the their citizens like living in their own country of birth; in doing this, inevitably, the drug cartels would have to be destroyed and this would have a knock on benefit for tackling the America's drug problems/crime. I can't understand any logical person in america wanting millions of poor people and also drug gangs/criminals to move to california and further afield, there's no need or benefit to it. There's plenty of billionaires and clever people in mexico/south america, they ought to be sorting out their country's problems or assisted by the UN etc to do so.
But you are privvy to the 'explanations' they use in political debates in your congress/senate and in press/media interviews, and if the explanations fail to add up you don't necessarily have to be just an 'idealist' to object to a war or new laws. What benefits so far have the american people obtained by fighting their longest conflict over 7000 miles away in afghanistan, probably thousands troops badly injured/killed and trillions spent, gone, and its looking to be unwinnable as many people predicted. But Trump was persuaded to agree to send thousands more troops back out there.
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I don't know who Dan Jorgenson is (it would be great if he showed a few charts) but I would not compare Denmark to the whole USA. I would compare it a state with a similar population size, like my state of MA which has about 6 million population, a little more than Denmark. Unemployment rate here in MA is 3.5%, Denmark 4.9%. for entire USA 3.7%
Why not believe this guy Mikkel Clair Nissen?
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I don't have time for it all right now.
Disagree on the cartels, think generational, the reason one country prevails is one generation passes on the values (of law and order) to the next, and so forth. Other countries pass on a culture of corruption. Hence the problem never get resolved.
Why do you assume US doesn't send money to Mexico/Central America? Have been for years from what I hear. Is it possible the people don't get it?
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Most US watch Fox over CNN/MSNBC? Why is that? Its a center right country, not a social democracy like the left wants to make it. You know this.
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no idea about the diseases but can you ask Justin T. if they can migrate to Canada?
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Don’t care for cnn or msnbc either. No better than fox.
They don’t want to come to Canada. They want to come to the USA.
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I wasn't really meaning that the US send money/aid, as I mentioned there's plenty of millionaires/billionaires in central south america, but help through things like planning, economics, political institutions, reform, ideas that sort of thing. The last thing the US, or UK for that matter, needs to do is increase their already massive debts to give money to corrupt countries/banana republics.
But there are a lot of professors, scientists, clever people in america and worldwide that could help advise the govts of the failed states to improve their countries, thus raising the standard of living and then most of the citizens will no longer want to leave, walking thousands of miles for a confontation on the border with the US army.
That to me is the only logical long term way of solving these problems, rather than the 'lifeboat' solution, which the the CNN etc type people favour, where you save a few lucky ones each year and the rest remain living a life of despair. Until gradually your own country becomes overcrowded, with rising crime, more indebted etc.. and the standard of living falls.
I agree the culture of corruption is a very big issue, and the corrupt govts of these countries in south/central america, africa etc.. won't accept or want outside help to remove corruption as they're directly benefitting...but they've also got to hide/bank the money/assets stolen from their countries somewhere. It's a bit like the oligarchs who asset stripped russia in the yeltsin years and then did a runner, I think a similar thing has gone on in places like mexico and brazil etc..
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They do, but when seeking asylum you get to the first safe country you can, in this case Mexico. Mexico offered them sanctuary, some took it, many didn't.
Questions do arise though, why would someone fleeing their country carry the flag of that country?
imo, the migrants would get more sympathy toting a US flag, especially heading towards a patriotic country like the US. As you know its pretty common to see flags outside people's homes here in the USA.
Oddly no prominent democrats have spoken out on the migrant crisis that I saw. I think its a losing issue for them.
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2006
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- USA
I'm sure there are people in corrupt countries that care about their country and strive to improve them, just not enough of them, which goes back to my point about looking at any issue as generational. The US gun culture for example, it will take 2 generations to change it.
Same for the murders in Chicago, killing someone over a dime bag. Its really hard to break these cycles, only when enough people stand up against it can the cycle begin to crumble.
Martin Luther King broke the cycle.
yes, the standard of living is falling in America, hence the dwindling middle class. Another reason why Trump even was considered. In another time he would been completely dismissed.
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- Mar 29, 2013
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- United Kingdom
So, about North Korea...
Oh sorry, wrong thread...
Oh sorry, wrong thread...
- Joined
- May 8, 2018
- Location
- south east england
" South Says North Korean Leader Kim Jong Un Will 'Soon' Visit Seoul"
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