North Korea and US politics

[mack341]

Easier just to post a video. I guess you'll have to watch it on You Tube.

Obamas arrive for NATO summit

Apr 3, 2009

Yeah I doubt trump would've ever got that response, bit embarrasing to see middle aged, grown men in full worship and adulation mode, after the experience of being misgoverned by Blair I now always try to look at politicians with a critical eye just in case they're planning to sell us down the river, you end up having to weigh up the least worst option when it comes to casting your vote, not sure democracy was meant to be this way.

Caught a vid on fox business channel I believe, where a democrat insider says democrat donors from wall street won't back warren as the nominee, they will either sit it out if she is or give some funds to the republicans to help make sure she doesn't win the presidency.

So out of the others who does that leave, that they will back, the insider didn't say who their preferred candidate was, bernie is probably more extreme than warren, which leaves buttigieg, harris , o'rourke or biden [surely not after this ukraine stuff resurfacing]

 

[slotplayer]

Yeah I doubt trump would've ever got that response, bit embarrasing to see middle aged, grown men in full worship and adulation mode, after the experience of being misgoverned by Blair I now always try to look at politicians with a critical eye just in case they're planning to sell us down the river, you end up having to weigh up the least worse option when it comes to casting your vote, not sure democracy was meant to be this way.

Caught a vid on fox business channel I believe, where a democrat insider says democrat donors from wall street won't back warren as the nominee, they will either sit it out if she is or give some funds to the republicans to help make sure she doesn't win the presidency.

So out of the others who does that leave, that they will back, the insider didn't say who their preferred candidate was, bernie is probably more extreme than warren, which leaves buttigieg, harris , o'rourke or biden [surely not after this ukraine stuff resurfacing]

Not surprising Wall Street won't back her. Maybe they see her as too anti-business.

 

[mack341]

Might be interesting for dem supporters, this guy worked with obama so must know the lay of the land regarding donors:

 

[slotplayer]

Tucker for president!

 

[Tengil]

Why do people even mention Fox "news"? There was a study that showed that people who don't follow any news channel etc were more aware of current events than those watching Fox crap. Its not even a news channel..

Guess FOX is for those on the left side

 

[mack341]

Why do people even mention Fox "news"? There was a study that showed that people who don't follow any news channel etc were more aware of current events than those watching Fox crap. Its not even a news channel..

Guess FOX is for those on the left side

I wouldn't mind if it did a bit more news, but I guess other local cable channels do that better. Our major news channels in the uk are probably at least 50% devoted to 'opinion' content. They say it's rolling news, but it'll be the same 5 or 6 items repeated all day...

 

[mack341]

a long article with good insights, though a little sneery:

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A few extracts:

Late last year, Carlson published a short book, Ship of Fools, that offers a bit of insight into the worldview of cable news’ most mercurial prime-time host. Although Carlson disavows the “populist” label, his thesis is populism in its purest form: In his view, elites from both parties have merged into an insular and incompetent ruling class, indifferent if not openly hostile to the population they are supposed to be governing. This elite has overseen the hollowing out of the American middle class, shipped jobs overseas, rigged the economic system in favor of the wealthy and well connected, devastated the American family, engineered massive demographic change, and transformed the United States, within the course of a few generations, from a relatively homogenous and egalitarian democracy into a culturally balkanized and unstable oligarchy.
.....
More than anything, he espouses the Middle American radicalism that John Judis, writing in 2016, identified as the ideological core of Trumpism. Middle American radicals (MARs) are neither fully liberal nor conservative but a blend of the two, mixing populist economics and a hostility to big business with intense nationalism, right-wing positions on race and immigration, and a desire for strong presidential leadership.
....
Simultaneous attacks on elites and illegal immigrants are not, as some liberal pundits have suggested, an expression of false consciousness. They are Middle American radicalism in its purest form: "Rich liberals who don’t care about you are going to invite the entire Third World to come live in your backyard, tax you to pay for it, and call you a fascist if you complain. "

[[this also ties into the wall street and chambers of commerce objections to warren from the vid I posted earlier: you can do as much identity politics as you want, have open borders and overhaul govt benefits to increase handouts but don't dare come after our profits to pay for it, but with the US debt growing something has to give if the Dems want to spend more, perhaps they plan to increase tax on the middle class?]]
.....
Once Trump is gone, Carlson could go the way of (glenn) Beck, fading into obscurity after breaking with Fox News. (It’s unclear, for instance, whether Fox would be as tolerant of Carlson’s attacks on capitalism under a more conventionally laissez-faire Republican president.) Or he could conclude that, given his own name recognition, the likelihood of a crowded field in 2024, and the risk of an attempted restoration by the GOP Establishment, the best option for realizing his vision of the Republican future would be to take the advice of Rod Dreher and do what he has already

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never to do: run for president. "

the reader's comment section under the article was interesting to read too, a lot of sensible support for Tucker.

Louis Dobbs could've made a decent president, I have it on good account that a lot of female democrats secretly swoon for old lou

 

[slotplayer]

That's how you create wealth, you write a book and plug it on tv. Even Ducey (and his wife) in Macks previous video wrote a cook book. (at 25 seconds, look at the shelf in the background) and a children's book as well.

When Bill O'Reilly had Tuckers slot he wrote history books, (he was a history teacher at one time) something like 27 books.

Even that Bregman that attacked Tucker wrote a Utopia book and could have plugged it on national tv in prime time in the richest country on the planet, sold a ton of copies and used that money for any good he wanted but instead he decided to put on his liberal bat suit and bark his moral superiority at Tucker. I wonder if he regrets it?

 

[Steviedoo]

The Trump/GOP raises $13 million in contributions since they started impeachment drama. Talk about energizing the base.

You know if they get Trump and Pence to resign, then Pelosi becomes the president.

If Trump resigns, Pence becomes the president then picks a Vice President with approval of Congress.

Pence might not run in 2020. In that case the Republicans would have to nominate someone, so you can see how this could back fire on the Democrats.

Please let this be the case.
I would take a new nominee and if the dems lose, it would be better than the circus happening right now.

 

[Harry_BKK]

Please let this be the case.
I would take a new nominee and if the dems lose, it would be better than the circus happening right now.

I am pretty sure that what has transpired until now is only the tip of the iceberg. Remember what I said about Mr T right at the beginning - admit only what you really have to and let it all out in small bits so you can control the narrative.

As it looks, Mr T hid only call transcripts with Russia, Saudi-Arabia and Ukraine in that super-secret vault. Why those conversations are so highly classified yet the other 100's of calls with other leaders/allies are not is something he will have trouble explaining.

 

[Steviedoo]

I am pretty sure that what has transpired until now is only the tip of the iceberg. Remember what I said about Mr T right at the beginning - admit only what you really have to and let it all out in small bits so you can control the narrative.

As it looks, Mr T hid only call transcripts with Russia, Saudi-Arabia and Ukraine in that super-secret vault. Why those conversations are so highly classified yet the other 100's of calls with other leaders/allies are not is something he will have trouble explaining.

They can’t be releasing every conversation with world leaders. The USA is already not trusted. There might be sensitive info in those convos. Not one to defend trump but I think some things are protocol and mainstream media is making a big deal.

If mitt Romney would be the nominee I think the dems are screwed which like I said it doesn’t matter as long as don the con is gone.

 

[Harry_BKK]

They can’t be releasing every conversation with world leaders. The USA is already not trusted. There might be sensitive info in those convos. Not one to defend trump but I think some things are protocol and mainstream media is making a big deal.

If mitt Romney would be the nominee I think the dems are screwed which like I said it doesn’t matter as long as don the con is gone.

I agree with you but in this case Mr T chose to move the transcript that had no sensitive issues to that extra server (Hillary anyone? ) .... so basically he is misusing the system for his personal protection to keep sensitive information safe.

 

[TheAddict]

Unsuprisingly the Epstien scenario has been conveniently pushed into the memory hole amidst the political bollocks.

 

[slotplayer]

Have you ever seen Epstien's cell mate? Ex cop to boot.

 

[mack341]

Have you ever seen Epstien's cell mate? Ex cop to boot.

View attachment 114642

yes he looks a kind chap, the type that like to embrace new friends tightly

I bet trump now sorely regrets epstein disappearing off this mortal coil like that, if the trial was still happening it would've shared the headlines with this ukraine story, and taken some of the heat away.

Watched a bit of glenn beck's radio show on utube last night, not that keen on him for some reason, but he was talking about all sorts of things re ukraine, the dems involvement out there trying to help the last president beat this new one, dnc servers, manafort and oligarchs etc..

Very confusing, which is the last thing people need, however this shakes down can it be straightforward for once, not another mueller type 'war and peace' sized epic with more bizarre twists and turns than the twilight zone.

 

[vorcirion]

yes he looks a kind chap, the type that like to embrace new friends tightly

I bet trump now sorely regrets epstein disappearing off this mortal coil like that, if the trial was still happening it would've shared the headlines with this ukraine story, and taken some of the heat away.

Watched a bit of glenn beck's radio show on utube last night, not that keen on him for some reason, but he was talking about all sorts of things re ukraine, the dems involvement out there trying to help the last president beat this new one, dnc servers, manafort and oligarchs etc..

Very confusing, which is the last thing people need, however this shakes down can it be straightforward for once, not another mueller type 'war and peace' sized epic with more bizarre twists and turns than the twilight zone.

It's just the tactics of the right-wing. They don't have the facts on their side, so they throw out all kinds of accusation against the dems without any kind of evidence as usual (because they are lying cunts). Whether it's the conspiracy that Clinton's ninjas got rid of Epstein or democrats seeking nude pictures of Trump from Ukraine. Or this mysterious deep state running things and everyone else are merely puppets. And why they do that? Because people are too stupid and believe all kinds of idiotic things that the right-wing throws at them.

Reality is MUCH simpler. Stick to the facts!

 

[mack341]

It's just the tactics of the right-wing. They don't have the facts on their side, so they throw out all kinds of accusation against the dems without any kind of evidence as usual (because they are lying cunts). Whether it's the conspiracy that Clinton's ninjas got rid of Epstein or democrats seeking nude pictures of Trump from Ukraine. Or this mysterious deep state running things and everyone else are merely puppets. And why they do that? Because people are too stupid and believe all kinds of idiotic things that the right-wing throws at them.

Reality is MUCH simpler. Stick to the facts!

Vorc could you have not used a different word, the brexit thread has been shut for similar reasons....You've obviously thought about this subject a bit, and your conclusions are there is no deep state in the USA and right wingers are just deceiving stupid people to believe there is, in your view is there a military industrial complex?

 

[vorcirion]

Vorc could you have not used a different word, the brexit thread has been shut for similar reasons....You've obviously thought about this subject a bit, and your conclusions are there is no deep state in the USA and right wingers are just deceiving stupid people to believe there is, in your view is there a military industrial complex?

What you mean by military industrial complex?
If you mean people who make all kinds of weaponry and wouldn't mind a war somewhere to get more orders...maybe! They are lobbyists and they can try to influence some people.

I just find it ridiculous that the right-wing constantly keeps bringing up new stuff against new people. They think Clinton is criminal...no evidence. McGabe is criminal...no evidence. Comey...no evidence. Strozk and his lover...no evidence. Joe Biden and his son...still no evidence. Now they're going to back to Clinton's aides. Is right-wing really that desperate that they can't go with the facts?
And if you interview these trumpsters, they believe all that crazy stuff! So there's something wrong there and it's not with the democrats.

 

[Harry_BKK]

I just found this piece of investigative journalism. Shows that the phone call in July is indeed not even the tip of the iceberg.

And before you complain, it is the NYT, but the facts are well-researched.

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[slotplayer]

It's just the tactics of the right-wing. They don't have the facts on their side, so they throw out all kinds of accusation against the dems without any kind of evidence as usual (because they are lying cunts). Whether it's the conspiracy that Clinton's ninjas got rid of Epstein or democrats seeking nude pictures of Trump from Ukraine. Or this mysterious deep state running things and everyone else are merely puppets. And why they do that? Because people are too stupid and believe all kinds of idiotic things that the right-wing throws at them.

Reality is MUCH simpler. Stick to the facts!

clean it up V. At least put a couple ** or say the "the c word". Women don't like that word.

 

[Mouche12]

Okay, a couple of lying $*!$@!, there. But I agree with the contents V.

 

[goatwack]

I'm 99% sure I know what'd happen if I were to call all Leftists a bunch of lying c***s

hint: I wouldn't get promoted

hint #2: the word's not 'cruds'

 

[vorcirion]

I'm 99% sure I know what'd happen if I were to call all Leftists a bunch of lying c***s

hint: I wouldn't get promoted

hint #2: the word's not 'cruds'

Okay let me be more specific. I meant right-wing politicians. And I hope you agree that politicians are usually c***s no matter what party they represent!
It's a different thing how to make right-wing people in general to be able to differentiate lies from facts.

 

[Kroffe]

Bunch of gosh darn cuddlebunnies the lot of them!!

 

[goatwack]

Political threads, why I oughta

Yer mooks

 

[slotplayer]

Here you go Mack, something to analyze.

Sep 29, 2019

 

[vorcirion]

Here you go Mack, something to analyze.

Sep 29, 2019

And while you're listening to it. Keep in mind that this guy is highly partisan (or just happened to write only about democrats (Obama, Clinton)) and has had troubles getting the facts right. Do some google searches about his claims! I'm gonna listen to it a bit later too when I have more time.

 

[Steviedoo]

Here you go Mack, something to analyze.

Sep 29, 2019

More What aboutisms.

What about the Biden’s? Who the f$&)# cares.

Joe Biden is not president and he didn’t ask the ukraine to help him with dirt on his opponent in exchange for aid. This is a treasonous offence.

And these are not facts. Biden with the rest of the European community was withholding aid because the Ukrainian corrupt prosecutor wasn’t doing his job of actually prosecuting.That’s why they wanted him fired. Get the facts straight.

Stephen Miller on fox with chris Wallace wasn’t able to answer a question when pressed with these facts. He kept obfuscating until Chris got mad and told him to stop. And Stephen Miller kept doing what the this WH always does. Trump screws up and then the cleaners have to go out there and mop up.


“Burisma Holdings owner, Mykola Zlochevsky hired Hunter Biden to his company’s board in 2014, possibly hoping to curry favor with the Obama admin and Biden.

Zlochevsky and the prosecutor in question, Viktor Shokin, had both worked for the Russian friendly Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych before he was ridden out of Kyiv on a rail.

Zlochevsky had amassed a huge fortune extracting a piece of every cubic inch on natural gas that transited Ukraine to Europe from Russia, and tried to squirrel $23,000,000 of it in London after Yanukovych was forced to run back to Moscow after he was deposed.

Authorities in London froze the funds in hopes of restoring them to the Ukrainian people, and asked prosecutors in Kyiv to document how the money was obtained.

Instead of trying to aid London in repatriating the funds prosecutors in Kyiv, probably including Zlochevsky’s old buddy Viktor Shokin sent back to London a get out of jail free card for the money, which was promptly withdrawn and secreted in Cyprus... probably in Wilbur Ross’s bank.

At that point the IMF, the EU and the Obama administration cried foul and went after Shokin’s head, despite Hunter Biden’s employment status.”

 

[mack341]

Here you go Mack, something to analyze.

Sep 29, 2019

I think this is what Trump needs, some investigative reporters/authors looking into stuff. The more problems he can lay at the opposition's door regarding the ukraine the better, so that includes crowdstrike, the dnc, comey's fbi, biden etc.. in turn that will help him to justify the nature of his conversation with zelensky.

He was probably so driven by ego to defeat biden, worrying about poll numbers and the embarrassment of losing etc... that he's gone down this route all the while thinking he was being clever using his position to gain an advantage over biden, the only saving grace as I see it is if the public opinion views it that the biden/son story does indeed smell, then morally Trump's actions will be more justifiable. Regardless of underlying motive can the senate really impeach a president for trying to look into possible corruption?

If biden had acted in a corrupt way over this ukrainian business then he would be unfit to be president, so it cannot then be said he unfairly lost the chance to run for the presidency due to donald's actions and that phone call.

Watched a vid of giuliani being interviewed by a cnbc sister channel last night, and he did a better job, he's still a wily operator and does carry some weight as a top prosecutor, the interviewer was stumped a few times.

Also it seems the man installed at the behest of biden was fired by the new president zelensky, I'm sure biden/obama etc..must've had a say in who they wanted to replace shokin.

The weakness in the argument against Shokin, is why if he was so corrupt against the ukrainian people etc.. that poroshenko [who had the support of the west] stood by him until the biden threat and hadn't fired him himself before then. It could be this gas/oil companies assets were going to be plundered/shared with the west and shokin was a sticking point as he was looking into things, I'd expect the 'west' usa , uk etc... would want indirect payback for all this aid to the ukraine, there's no free lunch in reality.

 

[slotplayer]

They all make rounds on the Sunday talk shows to defend whatever side they're on, that is nothing new.

 

[mack341]

The biggest sin or crime is seen as involving outsiders in the american democracy, even though people have interactions/business dealings all round the world, so to uncover wrongdoing you might need to enlist help from abroad where the corruption has occured.

But it's normally the govt departments/agencies that do this investigating, like the fbi/cia. But when are they ever going to investigate one of their own or an insider like biden, a VP. It was the same for hillary, she got judged by different standards to the average citizen/employee, it's a protected status. Trump's still an outsider compared to biden and hillary, so I don't think he automatically gets the same level of protection.

And that comes from the press and media as well, I think in the ideal situation everyone gets treated the same way, no tribal allegiances in the press, no special treatment by the law, if it was donald's son and not biden's, I think the press angle/coverage would be different, which can't be right if you think about it.

 

[vorcirion]

I think this is what Trump needs, some investigative reporters/authors looking into stuff. The more problems he can lay at the opposition's door regarding the ukraine the better, so that includes crowdstrike, the dnc, comey's fbi, biden etc.. in turn that will help him to justify the nature of his conversation with zelensky.

He was probably so driven by ego to defeat biden, worrying about poll numbers and the embarrassment of losing etc... that he's gone down this route all the while thinking he was being clever using his position to gain an advantage over biden, the only saving grace as I see it is if the public opinion views it that the biden/son story does indeed smell, then morally Trump's actions will be more justifiable. Regardless of underlying motive can the senate really impeach a president for trying to look into possible corruption?

If biden had acted in a corrupt way over this ukrainian business then he would be unfit to be president, so it cannot then be said he unfairly lost the chance to run for the presidency due to donald's actions and that phone call.

Watched a vid of giuliani being interviewed by a cnbc sister channel last night, and he did a better job, he's still a wily operator and does carry some weight as a top prosecutor, the interviewer was stumped a few times.

Also it seems the man installed at the behest of biden was fired by the new president zelensky, I'm sure biden/obama etc..must've had a say in who they wanted to replace shokin.

The weakness in the argument against Shokin, is why if he was so corrupt against the ukrainian people etc.. that poroshenko [who had the support of the west] stood by him until the biden threat and hadn't fired him himself before then. It could be this gas/oil companies assets were going to be plundered/shared with the west and shokin was a sticking point as he was looking into things, I'd expect the 'west' usa , uk etc... would want indirect payback for all this aid to the ukraine, there's no free lunch in reality.

Again you do this weird dance around Trump's criminality. You're able to justify using his presidency to go after his political rivals. Pretty much what Putin does in Russia and you seem to be okay with that, if it somehow tarnishes Biden and his son.

 

[vorcirion]

I think this is what Trump needs, some investigative reporters/authors looking into stuff. The more problems he can lay at the opposition's door regarding the ukraine the better, so that includes crowdstrike, the dnc, comey's fbi, biden etc.. in turn that will help him to justify the nature of his conversation with zelensky.

He was probably so driven by ego to defeat biden, worrying about poll numbers and the embarrassment of losing etc... that he's gone down this route all the while thinking he was being clever using his position to gain an advantage over biden, the only saving grace as I see it is if the public opinion views it that the biden/son story does indeed smell, then morally Trump's actions will be more justifiable. Regardless of underlying motive can the senate really impeach a president for trying to look into possible corruption?

If biden had acted in a corrupt way over this ukrainian business then he would be unfit to be president, so it cannot then be said he unfairly lost the chance to run for the presidency due to donald's actions and that phone call.

Watched a vid of giuliani being interviewed by a cnbc sister channel last night, and he did a better job, he's still a wily operator and does carry some weight as a top prosecutor, the interviewer was stumped a few times.

Also it seems the man installed at the behest of biden was fired by the new president zelensky, I'm sure biden/obama etc..must've had a say in who they wanted to replace shokin.

The weakness in the argument against Shokin, is why if he was so corrupt against the ukrainian people etc.. that poroshenko [who had the support of the west] stood by him until the biden threat and hadn't fired him himself before then. It could be this gas/oil companies assets were going to be plundered/shared with the west and shokin was a sticking point as he was looking into things, I'd expect the 'west' usa , uk etc... would want indirect payback for all this aid to the ukraine, there's no free lunch in reality.

Oh and Biden would be unfit to be the president if he acted in corrupt way? What about Trump? Trump is a poster boy for corruption. There's no comparison between Trump and Biden. And that's only IF Biden has acted in corrupt way. Trump and his government is filled with corruption.

 

[vorcirion]

I think this is what Trump needs, some investigative reporters/authors looking into stuff. The more problems he can lay at the opposition's door regarding the ukraine the better, so that includes crowdstrike, the dnc, comey's fbi, biden etc.. in turn that will help him to justify the nature of his conversation with zelensky.

He was probably so driven by ego to defeat biden, worrying about poll numbers and the embarrassment of losing etc... that he's gone down this route all the while thinking he was being clever using his position to gain an advantage over biden, the only saving grace as I see it is if the public opinion views it that the biden/son story does indeed smell, then morally Trump's actions will be more justifiable. Regardless of underlying motive can the senate really impeach a president for trying to look into possible corruption?

If biden had acted in a corrupt way over this ukrainian business then he would be unfit to be president, so it cannot then be said he unfairly lost the chance to run for the presidency due to donald's actions and that phone call.

Watched a vid of giuliani being interviewed by a cnbc sister channel last night, and he did a better job, he's still a wily operator and does carry some weight as a top prosecutor, the interviewer was stumped a few times.

Also it seems the man installed at the behest of biden was fired by the new president zelensky, I'm sure biden/obama etc..must've had a say in who they wanted to replace shokin.

The weakness in the argument against Shokin, is why if he was so corrupt against the ukrainian people etc.. that poroshenko [who had the support of the west] stood by him until the biden threat and hadn't fired him himself before then. It could be this gas/oil companies assets were going to be plundered/shared with the west and shokin was a sticking point as he was looking into things, I'd expect the 'west' usa , uk etc... would want indirect payback for all this aid to the ukraine, there's no free lunch in reality.

I wonder what you'll justify next. If Trump starts throwing dems' candidates to jail so they can't run for the office and Trump wins a 2nd term. But hey...that's fine too 'cause democrats are trying to destroy the country and there's so much treason going on? I really don't like the way you think now. Feels like morality and law are going out of the window with these justifications.

 

[mack341]

Again you do this weird dance around Trump's criminality. You're able to justify using his presidency to go after his political rivals. Pretty much what Putin does in Russia and you seem to be okay with that, if it somehow tarnishes Biden and his son.

Putin has the full force of the state on his side to nullify opponents, trump doesn't really have that, he couldn't withhold the military aid, the pentagon wanted it sent and it got sent, but even they may have wanted to sound out this new outsider guy zelensky's position on things, US pollsters/advisers apparently tried to help poroshenko to win after all.

Regarding trump, I was trying to give a neutral view of how he can fight this impeachment, it's up to the senate and then the american people to decide if the 'crime' means he is unfit to be president. When in recent memory you have the 'crimes' which led to millions dying, that bush, blair etc got away with scot free, forgive me for not trying to want to crucify trump here or to see things viewed in proportion.

I'm all for equal treatment under the law, I don't think we're getting that atm with our systems, they protect insiders like blair and hillary.

 

[slotplayer]

I think this is what Trump needs, some investigative reporters/authors looking into stuff. The more problems he can lay at the opposition's door regarding the ukraine the better, so that includes crowdstrike, the dnc, comey's fbi, biden etc.. in turn that will help him to justify the nature of his conversation with zelensky.

He was probably so driven by ego to defeat biden, worrying about poll numbers and the embarrassment of losing etc... that he's gone down this route all the while thinking he was being clever using his position to gain an advantage over biden, the only saving grace as I see it is if the public opinion views it that the biden/son story does indeed smell, then morally Trump's actions will be more justifiable. Regardless of underlying motive can the senate really impeach a president for trying to look into possible corruption?

Watched a vid of giuliani being interviewed by a cnbc sister channel last night, and he did a better job, he's still a wily operator and does carry some weight as a top prosecutor, the interviewer was stumped a few times.

Also it seems the man installed at the behest of biden was fired by the new president zelensky, I'm sure biden/obama etc..must've had a say in who they wanted to replace shokin.

The weakness in the argument against Shokin, is why if he was so corrupt against the ukrainian people etc.. that poroshenko [who had the support of the west] stood by him until the biden threat and hadn't fired him himself before then. It could be this gas/oil companies assets were going to be plundered/shared with the west and shokin was a sticking point as he was looking into things, I'd expect the 'west' usa , uk etc... would want indirect payback for all this aid to the ukraine, there's no free lunch in reality.

No matter how the MSM spins it the Biden story does not look good and that book author just announced this morning he's releasing documents on Joe Biden and China.

A month ago someone changed the whistle blower requirements to be a first hand account to basically hearsay. Could it be that this latest scandal was all premeditated and that requirement stood in the way or was it just a coincidence and the House decided to take advantage of it?

The House has to get 218 votes to proceed with impeachment, they'e up to 211 now.
Doubtful the senate will proceed to impeach they 2/3's or 67 senators.

 

[Steviedoo]

They all make rounds on the Sunday talk shows to defend whatever side they're on, that is nothing new.

Of course. Typical. Completely missing the point.
I don’t care that they make the rounds, Miller couldn’t defend trump when faced with the facts.
And you can’t either.


And so let’s go with the theories that there’s a deep state operatives. So what. Did the deep state operatives make trump say those things he said in that call. No. Trump will do and say to get what he wants. And America is waking up to the fact that he is a total con.

Give me a break.


At least I know when to stop defending the indefensible.

Like I said get Pence in there, get Romney in there. Get any GOPer , don’t care about the dems just As long as we are rid of this circus.

 

[mack341]

I wonder what you'll justify next. If Trump starts throwing dems' candidates to jail so they can't run for the office and Trump wins a 2nd term. But hey...that's fine too 'cause democrats are trying to destroy the country and there's so much treason going on? I really don't like the way you think now. Feels like morality and law are going out of the window with these justifications.

Did you like the way I thought before No I'm not hitching my wagon to trump, but I'm seeing all the signs of a witch hunt, the guilty verdict before it's proven. I've always been careful to say 'if' or 'may' regarding biden and the corruption alleged. There's no way I can look into all these things, the neutral info is not out there, but we serve no one with witchhunts including trump.

If he had been blackmailing the ukrainians to make up stuff about the bidens that would to me be an impeachable offence straightaway, but this situation falls short of that so it is more complicated and ultimately it will be the american voter who decides

 

[slotplayer]

Oh and Biden would be unfit to be the president if he acted in corrupt way? What about Trump? Trump is a poster boy for corruption. There's no comparison between Trump and Biden. And that's only IF Biden has acted in corrupt way. Trump and his government is filled with corruption.

Don't be silly, its in all how the media window dresses it. Even Fox will abandon "T" if he's done something corrupt.

 

[mack341]

There was that book 'tipping point' which was popular years ago, for many it hasn't been reached yet with Trump being 'bad', and the russian collusion story going nowhere, means to many voters trump's already been previously accused unfairly of doing something illegal, it's the cry wolf syndrome, the media is going to be less believed now than before.

Is this impeachment process doomed to fail but the real motive is to damage trump more and try to increase that tipping point factor, and then Fox etc desert him, once that support goes, does trump throw in the towel or believe with his twitter account and rallies he could fight on?

 

[Steviedoo]

Did you like the way I thought before No I'm not hitching my wagon to trump, but I'm seeing all the signs of a witch hunt, the guilty verdict before it's proven. I've always been careful to say 'if' or 'may' regarding biden and the corruption alleged. There's no way I can look into all these things, the neutral info is not out there, but we serve no one with witchhunts including trump.

If he had been blackmailing the ukrainians to make up stuff about the bidens that would to me be an impeachable offence straightaway, but this situation falls short of that so it is more complicated and ultimately it will be the american voter who decides

You have no idea about what is an impeachable offence.


Asking a foreign power to interfere or help you personally is called treason.

Stop making stuff up to suit your narrative.

 

[Steviedoo]

There was that book 'tipping point' which was popular years ago, for many it hasn't been reached yet with Trump being 'bad', and the russian collusion story going nowhere, means to many voters trump's already been previously accused unfairly of doing something illegal, it's the cry wolf syndrome, the media is going to be less believed now than before.

Is this impeachment process doomed to fail but the real motive is to damage trump more and try to increase that tipping point factor, and then Fox etc desert him, once that support goes, does trump throw in the towel or believe with his twitter account and rallies he could fight on?

Fantasy...

 

[slotplayer]

Of course. Typical. Completely missing the point.
I don’t care that they make the rounds, Miller couldn’t defend trump when faced with the facts.
And you can’t either.


And so let’s go with the theories that there’s a deep state operatives. So what. Did the deep state operatives make trump say those things he said in that call. No. Trump will do and say to get what he wants. And America is waking up to the fact that he is a total con.

Give me a break.


At least I know when to stop defending the indefensible.

Like I said get Pence in there, get Romney in there. Get any GOPer , don’t care about the dems just As long as we are rid of this circus.

What are the facts? I'm still waiting for the smoking gun just like the Russia-Gate.

I saw Miller/Wallace drama. Here is it is for anyone that wants to watch it.

 

[mack341]

You have no idea about what is an impeachable offence.


Asking a foreign power to interfere or help you personally is called treason.

Stop making stuff up to suit your narrative.

Aa far as I understand it, it's up to the senators to decide if trump is convicted, the impeachment is the step before the trial in the senate?
I meant final conviction rather than what qualifies as impeachable, however if it's unlikely the senate will convict him, it will come down to the voter, if they see it as 'treason' then they don't vote for him and the dems win.

 

[mack341]

Fantasy...

how so?

 

[slotplayer]

There was that book 'tipping point' which was popular years ago, for many it hasn't been reached yet with Trump being 'bad', and the russian collusion story going nowhere, means to many voters trump's already been previously accused unfairly of doing something illegal, it's the cry wolf syndrome, the media is going to be less believed now than before.

Is this impeachment process doomed to fail but the real motive is to damage trump more and try to increase that tipping point factor, and then Fox etc desert him, once that support goes, does trump throw in the towel or believe with his twitter account and rallies he could fight on?

The liberal media has no credibility as they're a bunch of crisis junkies.

I posted once before long ago, when you start to Fox desert "T" (like they did with Bush) then you know its over.

 

[mack341]

The liberal media has no credibility as they're a bunch of crisis junkies.

I posted once before long ago, when you start to Fox desert "T" (like they did with Bush) then you know its over.

Yes that will be the litmus test, and some fox presenters may not be keen on trump and wouldn't object to deserting him, and the advertisers also have a say. I still get the sense his base supports him, reading a few comments under videos and articles regarding this story.

 

[mack341]

What are the facts? I'm still waiting for the smoking gun just like the Russia-Gate.

I saw Miller/Wallace drama. Here is it is for anyone that wants to watch it.

Wallace doesn't like trump, that was clear from the presidential debates he hosted, he is right on some bits, that it's the govt's job to investigate corruption, trump should be able to ask them to look at issues impartially. He's tried to be clever here and it's blown up in his face.

 

[vorcirion]

Wallace doesn't like trump, that was clear from the presidential debates he hosted, he is right on some bits, that it's the govt's job to investigate corruption, trump should be able to ask them to look at issues impartially. He's tried to be clever here and it's blown up in his face.

Isn't it amazing how he cares about corruption only in one case? The one with Bidens maybe involved. Other kind of corruption...no problem! Very impartial of him.

 

[mack341]

Isn't it amazing how he cares about corruption only in one case? The one with Bidens maybe involved. Other kind of corruption...no problem! Very impartial of him.

Miller?

I think going on today's thread debate and the articles and clips I've seen so far, I'll be taking a sabbatical asap, the twists and turns are too complicated for my brain and I don't like to watch/hear the same news over and over again, it's bad enough with brexit. Similar to psychological torture with the intention of wearing the resistant prisoner down so he confesses to something.