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Would I be wrong in saying you didn't get the same media coverage on 9/11/2001 we did here in the US?

starts at around 9 minutes in. its a 2 hour video.

Fox & Friends 9-11-01 - Fox News Channel Live as Tragedy Occurred




No we had live coverage for hours on all the news channels in UK we also get fox news , CNN etc. over here. But cannot see what point that video is meant to make.
 
Why would you go to all this effort, reading all the 9/11 books/reports in order to debunk theories, that's the govt's job to reply to questions/raised doubts and provide answers.

Most people get interested in 9/11 because something doesn't quite add up, but you're the opposite, you study it in order to be able to protect the official narrative... very strange... I bet you have an answer to every weakness in the story..the grounded fighter jets, how amateur pilots could fly large jumbo jets at that speed and hit the towers with such accuracy:

"They almost had to hit the towers like they were threading the eye of a needle," said Michael Barr, director of aviation safety programs at the University of Southern California and a former Air Force fighter-bomber pilot.

"The routes they were flying were very different--one plane coming from the north and the other coming from the south. That adds greatly to the complexity [of synchronizing the attack] and it requires a degree of skill to prevent the planes from banking too much or descending too fast while keeping on course....

The terrorists who commandeered American Flight 77, a Boeing 757-200 that crashed into the Pentagon, displayed similar levels of proficiency in the aircraft's advanced navigation and automated flight systems, authorities said.

Such systems require pilots to program the desired course heading and altitude into an onboard computer, and the plane carries out the instructions.

maneuvering a plane to change its flight path or navigate the craft in changing weather conditions would require months of additional training and experience.

Unlike a small private plane where pilots generally fly visually, a commercial plane like those hijacked Tuesday require a vast command of navigation techniques as well as in-depth knowledge of their myriad systems, from hydraulics to the autopilot."

Tell me who else would fly those planes to those towers and why.
 
Why would you go to all this effort, reading all the 9/11 books/reports in order to debunk theories, that's the govt's job to reply to questions/raised doubts and provide answers.

Who said I read them in order to debunk anything? I read them because everything that happened had a profound impact on me. I witnessed it happen with my own eyes (from afar obviously) and it was such a monumental event, I couldn’t get enough of it to be honest. It was the day our world changed.

Most people get interested in 9/11 because something doesn't quite add up, but you're the opposite, you study it in order to be able to protect the official narrative... very strange...

Wow, you should go on Britain’s Got Talent with a skill like that, mate. Actually , don’t bother. Your mind reading skills are way off! :p

I studied it to protect the official narrative, wow.

I bet you have an answer to every weakness in the story..the grounded fighter jets, how amateur pilots could fly large jumbo jets at that speed and hit the towers with such accuracy:

Sure, and so would you if you also spent time trying to debunk it yourself - instead of blindly relying on everything you read.

For example:
"They almost had to hit the towers like they were threading the eye of a needle," said Michael Barr, director of aviation safety programs at the University of Southern California and a former Air Force fighter-bomber pilot.

"The routes they were flying were very different--one plane coming from the north and the other coming from the south. That adds greatly to the complexity [of synchronizing the attack] and it requires a degree of skill to prevent the planes from banking too much or descending too fast while keeping on course....

The terrorists who commandeered American Flight 77, a Boeing 757-200 that crashed into the Pentagon, displayed similar levels of proficiency in the aircraft's advanced navigation and automated flight systems, authorities said.

Such systems require pilots to program the desired course heading and altitude into an onboard computer, and the plane carries out the instructions.

maneuvering a plane to change its flight path or navigate the craft in changing weather conditions would require months of additional training and experience.

Unlike a small private plane where pilots generally fly visually, a commercial plane like those hijacked Tuesday require a vast command of navigation techniques as well as in-depth knowledge of their myriad systems, from hydraulics to the autopilot."

I will counter with:

Several of the hijackers, including
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, held at least private pilot certificates and had undergone ATP level jet training in DC9 and 737 full motion simulators in December of 2000. Atta himself held a commercial license with instrument and multi engine ratings. They were well versed in aerial navigation techniques and more than capable of navigating the aircraft in question back to New York City and Washington DC after it was hijacked and secured.
A basic scenario that any private or commercial pilot could have done: the hijackers knew the flights they were booked on and the rough routes they would take to their destinations. A little basic planning amongst themselves would have produced the approximate position the aircraft would be at at the time it was hijacked.
Once seized and the flight crew liquidated, they could quickly determine their positions either from their headings and next waypoints or with a simple VOR fix (any competent private pilot can do this). The autopilots could quickly be disengaged and the airplanes hand flown using basic pilotage (good weather prevailed over the east coast that morning) or radio navaids to return to their targets. The navigation and flying they did that day was relatively simple.
As an update, I know these kinds of questions float around with “9/11 truthers” and other conspiracy fanatics as some sort of proof that the official explanation is incorrect. Quite often they cherry pick quotes and ignore any other evidence that won’t fit their narrative. Combine that with the public that’s largely ignorant about aviation, it allows these kinds of ideas to fester very well without challenge.

From
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There’s loads more.
 
Really Mack, that’s what you think?

Do I have an agenda because I see something that is blatantly wrong and I feel the need to say something about it? Like I said, I wish I hadn’t bothered.

In another life I ran a website that debunked fantastical claims and such like. It tended to focus on Ufology but this stuff came up quite regularly too.

I can provide you with countless links but why the hell should I? I’m not the one making these claims; claims that fly in the face of all of the evidence and which have been debunked countless times over the years. I honestly can’t believe the same old crap is still being spouted about this years later.

I need to provide links but it’s ok for Orange to randomly come out and say the things he is saying with nothing to back it up with? Melted cars, really? People breathing in thermite, really? Ok then.

On your other point, at the time I believed those WMD claims, but after looking at all of the available evidence since then I’ve changed my mind. That ok?

I never said you needed to provide links, and to me links don't mean a lot anyway. If and I say if, the events on 9/11, the science etc doesn't quite stand up, like wtc 7 collapsing due to office fires as the most obvious odd one, then it's easy for the govt intelligence agencies to set up debunking articles made to look like they're just unbiased and from independent investigators/researchers, to counter the articles and websites questioning the narrative.

I cannot understand someone setting up and running a website purely to debunk alternative theories, that question the official narratives, a mixture of viewpoints fine...I certainly don't believe all conspiracy theories.

The govt wants to control the internet regarding political issues and make sure the official 9/11 narrative is believed by the majority. Otherwise we've all been lied to for these last 18 years, what started it off was an inside job? The stakes are huge if the govt have lied. That's why it deserves fair analysis...I don't think the architects and engineers for 9/11 truth can easily be dismissed as a bunch of crackpots...these are highly qualified professionals in their areas of expertise.
 
I cannot understand someone setting up and running a website purely to debunk alternative theories, that question the official narratives, a mixture of viewpoints fine...I certainly don't believe all conspiracy theories.

I didn’t.

The website was setup to explore the nature of reality, but I never really got around to discussing that much. It tended to focus on Ufology like I said but 911 was discussed on there too. And ghosts, and cults etc etc.
 
I never said you needed to provide links, and to me links don't mean a lot anyway. If and I say if, the events on 9/11, the science etc doesn't quite stand up, like wtc 7 collapsing due to office fires as the most obvious odd one, then it's easy for the govt intelligence agencies to set up debunking articles made to look like they're just unbiased and from independent investigators/researchers, to counter the articles and websites questioning the narrative.

I cannot understand someone setting up and running a website purely to debunk alternative theories, that question the official narratives, a mixture of viewpoints fine...I certainly don't believe all conspiracy theories.

The govt wants to control the internet regarding political issues and make sure the official 9/11 narrative is believed by the majority. Otherwise we've all been lied to for these last 18 years, what started it off was an inside job? The stakes are huge if the govt have lied. That's why it deserves fair analysis...I don't think the architects and engineers for 9/11 truth can easily be dismissed as a bunch of crackpots...these are highly qualified professionals in their areas of expertise.

So you're saying that americans killed 3000 people of their own citizens to do what? You understand that it would require many people to plan these attacks and cover stories. And you're saying that all of them just approved killing 3000 of their own citizens. No one had a problem with that. No leaking etc. Not even Trump would do something like that and he's one of the most insane people there is.
You really do believe all kinds of conspiracy theories and you don't question Tucker about anything. You blindly believe those ridiculous things that anyone with common sense would understand.

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Sure, and so would you if you also spent time trying to debunk it yourself - instead of blindly relying on everything you read.

This is what I don't get...James randi was into debunking so maybe some people enjoy doing this, like detective work...I don't blindly rely on everything I read and in fact gave up reading about 9/11 years ago as it became too difficult with all the shilling on forums etc...and the world had basically moved on...but I still have my doubts and wtc 7 is the biggest red warning flag to me.
 
Sorry but Adam and Orange are right. When I first came back here and started to post in the political forum I was shocked at how much people outside of America mimicked the US progressive media anchors and pundits on MSNBC.

Your comment reminded me of something i read last night while having a quick ganders as to why a very intelligent, controversial 14 year old girl has just been booted from youtube for daring to have opinions and use some common sense to address some of the problems or issues of today, often in a satirical way, while also supporting much of it with stats and sources.

Anyway, during my search for answers as to why a 14 year old girl was such a threat that she had to be removed, i came across some random guys post:

"There's a general phenomenon i noticed on the internet. Any forum with free speech and little to no moderation becomes right wing. Leftists ideas cannot exist without censorship and moderation. This is why we've started seeing armies of shills trying to flood spaces here with their talking points"


Generally speaking, like when you observe many other forums - or more specifically the big social media sites, FB, Twatter and tube etc, the above quote, does have a ring of truth to it. Often, you are simply not allowed to think for yourself ;)
 
Well that's been the end result, what about dr david kelly and gareth williams?

I don’t have an opinion on it because it’s not something I’ve spent any time on. Dr David Kelly’s death did appear suspicious at the time, I remember that much.

I vaguely remember something about someone’s body in a suitcase, but again it’s not something I’ve ever looked into.
 
So you're saying that americans killed 3000 people of their own citizens to do what? You understand that it would require many people to plan these attacks and cover stories. And you're saying that all of them just approved killing 3000 of their own citizens. No one had a problem with that. No leaking etc. Not even Trump would do something like that and he's one of the most insane people there is.
You really do believe all kinds of conspiracy theories and you don't question Tucker about anything. You blindly believe those ridiculous things that anyone with common sense would understand.

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The truth is out there :rolleyes:



Those that do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.

As for your last comment regaring MIB.. I can only shake my head in response to that. You'll grow up one day Paul and hopefully look into history a bit more as you do. If i remember your birthday is the same day as mine, just that you are much younger. ;)

Its unfortunate though that many youngsters have come accustom to this 'durrr, everything's a conspiracy because of some wacko conspiracy theories (that dilute actual conspiracies) going around, so what you are talking about must be a conspiracy too!' . The government and those beyond, love people like that. It's sad though, really.... if a Nation eventually falls in line and never challenges what is presented to them as the truth.

Questioning authority or an official narrative, especislly when it is inconsistent... should be encouraged, not dismissed and ridiculed. But then, the NPC meme springs to mind here, unfortunately.
Like orange, regarding some of the things I've said in here, i HOPE I'm wrong. But history has proved only a fool takes everything at face value. And afterall, it is the future of our children that is riding on it..

edit: should add i only posted the above because it's not the first time i see you mentioning conspiracy theories etc
 
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You guys call world leaders baffoons (and a bunch of other names) and then accuse them of these mastermind plots.
 
You guys call world leaders baffoons (and a bunch of other names) and then accuse them of these mastermind plots.


Dunno if thats aimed at me, but since I've obviously called many of those in powerful positions like POTUS or PM positions, as untrustable personalities (in my eyes) or/and complete donkeys (or baffoons if you will) . But i never said it was THEY who "mastermid the plot".. but by being baffoons and untrustworthy, it is ceartinly easier for them to take the blame - before being replaced by another.
 
I don't tend to believe in ufo's as I don't see why they would keep themselves hidden and not just fly above the house of commons or something, if they have these spaceships then they're far in advance of us, but I don't instantly dismiss the images and video clips, I just wonder if it's real [1.57 onwards in this vid for instance]



I feel like ufo sightings have diminished more and more as cameras get better and better.
Most everybody has a full-hd camera in their pocket nowadays, so its harder to justify grainy&out of focus pictures and videos.
Reminds me of one of Mitch hedbergs jokes
"Bigfoot is blurry. That's extra scary to me. There's a large, out-of-focus monster roaming the countryside. "

Faked videos are getting better and better aswell, and i imagine in a couple of years it will be more or less impossible to tell if a video is real.
On that topic, does anyone remember Mike tysons hit show family matters where he played all the charachters?

 
Those that do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.

As for your last comment regaring MIB.. I can only shake my head in response to that. You'll grow up one day Paul and hopefully look into history a bit more as you do. If i remember your birthday is the same day as mine, just that you are much younger. ;)

Its unfortunate though that many youngsters have come accustom to this 'durrr, everything's a conspiracy because of some wacko conspiracy theories (that dilute actual conspiracies) going around, so what you are talking about must be a conspiracy too!' . The government and those beyond, love people like that. It's sad though, really.... if a Nation eventually falls in line and never challenges what is presented to them as the truth.

Questioning authority or an official narrative, especislly when it is inconsistent... should be encouraged, not dismissed and ridiculed. But then, the NPC meme springs to mind here, unfortunately.
Like orange, regarding some of the things I've said in here, i HOPE I'm wrong. But history has proved only a fool takes everything at face value. And afterall, it is the future of our children that is riding on it..

edit: should add i only posted the above because it's not the first time i see you mentioning conspiracy theories etc

Seriously Adam i had a bit more respect for you than that.

Anyway this brainwashed idiot will leave you to it. You can question the moon landings. Say America took down their own towers whatever floats your boat. Your choice same as it is my choice to believe some people spend way too much time trying to rewrite history falsely.
I am 46 not a child.

I am far from a brainwashed idiot that believes what I am told.

I have researched many things. I am far from a fool and do not believe everything i am told. But I also know that some people are gullible to believe everything they read on the internet and if they are told something is true because of a lot of crap they will believe it..

But seriously if you think people should be questioning many things they need not and believing a lot of whacky theories with no truth at all that is entirely your opinion.
 
Dunno if thats aimed at me, but since I've obviously called many of those in powerful positions like POTUS or PM positions, as untrustable personalities (in my eyes) or/and complete donkeys (or baffoons if you will) . But i never said it was THEY who "mastermid the plot".. but by being baffoons and untrustworthy, it is ceartinly easier for them to take the blame - before being replaced by another.

Not you specifically, just a general observation over the 2-3 years of posting. Baffoon is word used by some here. Bush/Blair planned 9/11 and Trump planned a massive Russian Conspiracy to steal an election.
 
It's always odd to me when members who never normally post in this thread, or others that involve theories and debates, suddenly feel a strong need to do so, and then only in order to back up and support official govt narrative... :rolleyes: normally with the least amount of explanation and work put into the post, just aimed more at encouraging forum derision towards another member's views.

It's so predictable to me now, that I bet they also support the wmd claims of tony blair and the justification of the iraq war invasion. Oh and dr david kelly's suicide, the spy Gareth williams found dead, locked in a sports bag did it to himself etc... and so on.

Edit: Anyone who dislikes my posts just put me on block :thumbsup:

I know why Bush invaded Iraq.
Sadam had a failed assassination attempt against his Father (Bush Sr.).
Bush Sr. doubled crossed the Kurds and told Jr. to make it right.
 
Seriously Adam i had a bit more respect for you than that.

Anyway this brainwashed idiot will leave you to it. You can question the moon landings. Say America took down their own towers whatever floats your boat. Your choice same as it is my choice to believe some people spend way too much time trying to rewrite history falsely.
I am 46 not a child.

I am far from a brainwashed idiot that believes what I am told.

I have researched many things. I am far from a fool and do not believe everything i am told. But I also know that some people are gullible to believe everything they read on the internet and if they are told something is true because of a lot of crap they will believe it..

But seriously if you think people should be questioning many things they need not and believing a lot of whacky theories with no truth at all that is entirely your opinion.

Then i had you down for another Paul, who said he was 18 and also shares my birthdate. I thought it were you, hence assuming you are much younger. It makes me cringe when people throw silly lines like saying 'i bet you beleive in this too, or that..'

I never said you were brainwashed, neither that you were an idiot. But much of the younger generation possibly being so, and i think its sad. That those who dismiss every conspiracy and add it into the list of conspiracy theories, many of which are ludicrous (and almost as if they are created to dilute factual ones, and make people come off as crazy for questioning ANYTHING).. and then seem to enjoy ridiculing anyone who mentions them.

I just have a lot of respect for Mack and his open minded way of thinking, and see it as a bit of an attempt at ridicule towards someone who likes to have open debates.

I appreciate now, you are likely just making such posts in humour rather than ridicule.. and so i do apolagize for jumping the gun. I think that was the main overall reason i posted, and it seems i made a twat of myself here.. assuming yiur one liners were nothing but digs.
I don't normally spend so many hours reading this thread.. perhaps i need a break.

Anyway, i apologise. I should have put more thought into it before hitting the post button. I was generalizing though, (at least i hope thats how it looked) when talking about youger generations just being immature... that wasn't aimed at you, me assuming you were someone else, therfor assuming your age, reminded me of some immature comments you see these days that are meant for nothing other than to take the piss/make someone look like an idiot.

I do think people should be questioning things they need do. While i havnt commented onit, 9/11 being just one, indeed.
Regarding that, false flags have happened before and are documented, that is not history being rewritten either.
But i appreciate your respect for my opinion, i got it wrong in that i thought you were mocking Macks eagerness to debate some things, thinking I'd seen similar one liners before. And of course, while it may not look like it (but then as far as i am aware you havnt really thrown one out) I would respect your opinion too.
 
Blow me sideways, I leave the thread for 10 minutes and we've got UFOs, 9/11 and X Files

Can we all go back to talking about Ivanka's great big _______


reeeee.webp
 
Somebody might wish to start a new thread for the sake of keeping the board tidy, just a thought expanded on mentioned in a previous post. I did not say people inhaled thermite but the contaminants it causes after detonated. Perhaps I should have been crystal clear about this rather tedious point and for that, I apologize. Amazing how everyone sprang in unison to this.

I suggest you go to the victims of 9-11 forums and read their experiences. If you really want to delve into facts surrounding the case then look no further than "following the money". I mentioned the small point of 5 TRILLION dollars missing and nothing spoken about it since. Where is this never discussed?

Why was Iraq invaded? What happened to the WMDs? Why did the bother of Bush quite his job as head of security for the Twin Towers a month before things went down? How much stock was traded and who bought it just before the attacks? What was on the floor that was hit? Why is this important? Why did the owner of the Twin Towers who had just purchased them through a loan take out double insurance policies? How much money did he ultimately receive in settlements? What is his name? Did the war in Iraq do any good for the US and its allies? Was it worth it? Why was planeloads of cash paid to Iraqi officials and a lot was never accounted for?

If you don't know a majority of the answers then I'm pulling out the media manipulation card and laying it on the table. And I'll double down asking the basic question as follows. Why is none of this information ever discussed or even touched on? Are these questions irrelevant and/or out of line to any legitimate investigation?

Finally, why was the site in Shanksville Pennsylvania almost immediately cleared and nobody on the ground examined it properly?

Sorry for questioning everything as this is how I was brought up. Blind trust is a very dangerous form of control. All anybody needs to do is start a fire and say this person did it and you now have weaponized action using mere words. If you think this tactic has never been used think again.
 
Blow me sideways, I leave the thread for 10 minutes and we've got UFOs, 9/11 and X Files

Can we all go back to talking about Ivanka's great big _______

Given the gravity of this thread, I think it would be appropriate to have Michael, I mean Michelle handle that chore. :laugh::D

Sorry mate, I couldn't resist. You left yourself wide open for a good ball bust. Obviously kidding but I thought it was funny.

By all means, T & A is always the order of the day.
 
I know why Bush invaded Iraq.
Sadam had a failed assassination attempt against his Father (Bush Sr.).
Bush Sr. doubled crossed the Kurds and told Jr. to make it right.

I've never heard of this assassination attempt on bush snr, but I won't gainsay you regarding this, you're much closer to the situation. I think it was for other geopolitical reasons, but certainly wouldn't impose this view on yourself.

I did hear about the kurds situation, however I didn't know at the time about the ongoing long hostilities between the kurds and turkey, a nato ally, so this realpolitik may have been the deciding factor back then in 1991.The kurds are also land locked so having a state of their own was never possible unless the neighbouring countries agreed with it, otherwise food supplies etc by ship would be impossible to obtain.
 
Larry Silverstien was an unusually lucky man, as were some members of his family on that day of 9/11... all coincidently having different reasons to not turn up on that day of all days. iirc.
Also he just so happened to renew the insurance on those towers some months prior, which added to it was insurance cover for terrorism or something like that, possibly eventually being able to make 2 claims as a result. I can't remember all the details.. but, a very lucky man indeed.
I dunno..

Anyway.. yeah.
 
Larry Silverstien was an unusually lucky man, as were some members of his family on that day of 9/11... all coincidently having different reasons to not turn up on that day of all days. iirc.
Also he just so happened to renew the insurance on those towers some months prior, which added to it was insurance cover for terrorism or something like that, possibly eventually being able to make 2 claims as a result. I can't remember all the details.. but, a very lucky man indeed.
I dunno..

Anyway.. yeah.

Yeah I think he must've been clairvoyant or perhaps related to nostradamus ...and he never did clear up that bit about what he meant when saying 'pull it' to the fire service, referring to wtc building 7.

It's all yesterday's news now I guess, the world has moved/staggered on.
 
Somebody might wish to start a new thread for the sake of keeping the board tidy, just a thought expanded on mentioned in a previous post. I did not say people inhaled thermite but the contaminants it causes after detonated. Perhaps I should have been crystal clear about this rather tedious point and for that, I apologize. Amazing how everyone sprang in unison to this.

People did not get sick through inhaling contaminants caused by thermite detonating! For one thing, thermite doesn’t detonate it burns!

People got sick through inhaling the toxic crap which was released when the towers collapsed!

I suggest you go to the victims of 9-11 forums and read their experiences. If you really want to delve into facts surrounding the case then look no further than "following the money". I mentioned the small point of 5 TRILLION dollars missing and nothing spoken about it since. Where is this never discussed?

Are you talking about what Rumsfeld said prior to the attack? If so, it was 2.3 Trillion, not 5. For another thing, it was never missing. He was talking about the accounting processes in use by the various departments AND it was accounted for later.

That’s your first two items, can you see why I find this tedious?
 
Yeah let's leave 9/11 there now, it's been done to death all over the internet. I had thought the building 7 clip may have just received a few comments like 'that's interesting' or 'haven't seen that before' and not cause a full thread meltdown. Just like jfk's death, it's part of history now and will never be properly revisited. Doesn't matter what is posted here or anywhere else...

There are current things going on, like the dems debate, which could be of live interest to some people, and it'll be interesting who wins the nomination. Joe hasn't thrown in the towel yet and seems willing to fight on, bernie and elizabeth warren are working together a bit.
 
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I've never heard of this assassination attempt on bush snr, but I won't gainsay you regarding this, you're much closer to the situation. I think it was for other geopolitical reasons, but certainly wouldn't impose this view on yourself.

I did hear about the kurds situation, however I didn't know at the time about the ongoing long hostilities between the kurds and turkey, a nato ally, so this realpolitik may have been the deciding factor back then in 1991.The kurds are also land locked so having a state of their own was never possible unless the neighbouring countries agreed with it, otherwise food supplies etc by ship would be impossible to obtain.

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Larry Silverstien was an unusually lucky man, as were some members of his family on that day of 9/11... all coincidently having different reasons to not turn up on that day of all days. iirc.
Also he just so happened to renew the insurance on those towers some months prior, which added to it was insurance cover for terrorism or something like that, possibly eventually being able to make 2 claims as a result. I can't remember all the details.. but, a very lucky man indeed.
I dunno..

Anyway.. yeah.

Good memory indeed.

That is pretty much what happened and I forgot about his family members or relatives. There is truly too many instances of this nature to remember which only add to the disbelief by many. Makes me shake my head while nodding in horror.

I must say like him or not, Guilllani the mayor at the time did a better than average job in handling things as best he could. I personally never cared for him much until that point. Word was although he took on the mafia he was also on the take although one never knows. The same rumor was spread about Trump and his real estate dealings in New York around this time and before but turned out to be false.

Personally, I don't believe in coincidences involving big money movements at key points in time. With that said, I don't discount it could be a jackpot scenario either but as they say, if the shoe fits.... If memory serves (Age and Lack of brains) he borrowed the $50 million to take over buildings as well. The insurance double down was a big stroke of luck and he ended up pocketing a tidy sum of close to 7 Billion.

Not a bad payday to say the very least. Some people are so lucky or are they? This aspect along has been debated to death.
 
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People did not get sick through inhaling contaminants caused by thermite detonating! For one thing, thermite doesn’t detonate it burns!

People got sick through inhaling the toxic crap which was released when the towers collapsed!



Are you talking about what Rumsfeld said prior to the attack? If so, it was 2.3 Trillion, not 5. For another thing, it was never missing. He was talking about the accounting processes in use by the various departments AND it was accounted for later.

That’s your first two items, can you see why I find this tedious?

Actually, the number is unknown but its estimates are right around 5 trillion. Please show me your credible sources of its accountability later as this is news to me as I follow these things. How can something be accounted for when the records and computer data was destroyed?

I'll bet my cotton socks and a years supply of democrat diapers this is false. The diapers alone would last several lifetimes. I hear they are the best on the market due to their frequent use.

All kidding aside I'd love to see where that information came from or at least hear of its origins.

PS - Feel free to bust my balls at any time gents I'm immune as my nether regions are pathetic. And my ego has long been in the gutter along with my dirty mind.
 
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I started to read the document on the link and got interested in the surrounding events mentioned in it. And it goes back to bill clinton launching a cruise missile attack on baghdad, and an fbi chemist whistleblower called frederic whitehurst. I think the bush assassination plot used subsequently for the 2nd iraq war was another false excuse by the neo conservatives.

To take a country into a major war costing thousands of american lives not to mention a million other deaths, to exact revenge over a totally foiled assassination plot 8 years prior, surely bush jnr had more love and respect for his country than that?

this is from the baltimore sun, an article about those events:

"It's very possible that the Iraqis tried to get Bush," says Sami G. Hajjar, a former Army War College expert on the Middle East, who says he leans toward that view. "But it wouldn't be at all a surprise if evidence emerged one day that it was staged by the Kuwaits to pump up the Iraqi threat and to ingratiate themselves with the U.S."

Others have even stronger doubts.

"I tend to be extremely skeptical about this," says a former CIA officer who worked in the region for years. "The Kuwaitis would not be reliable sources."

Most strikingly, the former FBI chemist who tested the explosive recovered in Kuwait says he told superiors it did not match known Iraqi explosives. He was astonished to hear Clinton and other officials tell the world exactly the opposite.

The chemist, Frederic Whitehurst, whose whistle-blowing in the mid-1990s led to sweeping reforms at the FBI laboratory, says he protested in letters to the Department of Justice inspector general and other top officials.

"I told the IG, there may be good reasons to send Tomahawk missiles to Baghdad. But my report did not support it," Whitehurst says.

...In November 1993, investigative reporter Seymour Hersh scrutinized the alleged plot in the New Yorker magazine and concluded that much of the evidence given by the FBI and CIA -- and presented to the
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after the missile attack -- was flawed or wrong. He suggested that the Kuwaitis might have invented the plot, its Iraqi connection or its focus on Bush, forcing one or more plotters to confess under torture.
Hersh quoted explosives experts as saying that far from reflecting a bomb maker's unique "signature," the electronic parts were mass-produced and indistinguishable from components in ordinary walkie-talkies and other devices.
Asked about Hersh's claims, the former Clinton official said that individual intelligence officers might be skeptical because they don't have the full picture.
"You have to rely on what the senior CIA and FBI people conclude," he said.
Hersh's account was written before Whitehurst, the FBI chemist, went public with criticisms of the FBI lab's work on many cases, including the Kuwaiti plot. Whitehurst received a $1.16 million settlement when he left the FBI in 1998, many of his charges having been vindicated in a scathing, 500-page inspector general's report.
Whitehurst, now practicing law in Bethel, N.C., says his analysis showed clearly that the material from the car bomb in Kuwait did not match other Iraqi explosive samples.
When he heard reports after the missile attack that Clinton and U.N. Ambassador Madeleine K. Albright had said the explosives matched, "I
thought, 'The news has got this wrong.' I said specifically it wasn't a match." When he later saw an official FBI document misstating his findings, he filed an official protest.
The inspector general's report eventually confirmed that Whitehurst's findings had been distorted, but said government officials assured investigators that they had other evidence linking the plot to Iraq."

-------------------------
So the whole episode sounds to me murky at best, the plot story [april 1993] was used as justification for the missile attack [june 1993] and then later for the 2nd iraq war...even though the chemist assigned to do the analysis said there was no match, and there was probably torture involved to obtain the 'confessions' This would all be so easy for the CIA and kuwait etc.. to concoct, unfortunately that's the world we live in. The irony is saddam was aided to come to power by US intelligence in the first place:

According to Western scholars, as well as Iraqi refugees and a British human rights organization, the 1963 coup was accompanied by a bloodbath. Using lists of suspected Communists and other leftists provided by the C.I.A., the Baathists systematically murdered untold numbers of Iraq's educated elite, killings in which Saddam Hussein himself is said to have participated. No one knows the exact toll, but accounts agree that the victims included hundreds of doctors, teachers, technicians, lawyers and other professionals as well as military and political figures.

The United States also sent arms to the new regime, weapons later used against the same Kurdish insurgents the United States had backed against Kassem and then abandoned. Soon, Western corporations like Mobil, Bechtel and British Petroleum were doing business with Baghdad for American firms, their first major involvement in Iraq.

.....In the 1980s, the US and Britain backed Saddam in the war against Iran, giving Iraq arms, money, satellite intelligence, and even chemical & bio-weapon precursors. As many as 90 US military advisors supported Iraqi forces and helped pick targets for Iraqi air and missile attacks.


In my opinion, the real reasons for all these wars and conflicts are geopolitical and strategic, and something we will probably never find the detail about.

Edit: just to say I have no doubts that the uk have been involved in all sorts of things behind the scenes as well, and france, russia etc...that is the world we still live in, murky events happen.
 
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People did not get sick through inhaling contaminants caused by thermite detonating! For one thing, thermite doesn’t detonate it burns!

People got sick through inhaling the toxic crap which was released when the towers collapsed!

Are you talking about what Rumsfeld said prior to the attack? If so, it was 2.3 Trillion, not 5. For another thing, it was never missing. He was talking about the accounting processes in use by the various departments AND it was accounted for later.

That’s your first two items, can you see why I find this tedious?

You are right that it burns this is why it's used in bombs and grenades to incinerate the intended target. It literally destroys anything it comes in contact with. The reaction results in a massive release of heat without a huge explosion.

Normally I do not cut and paste articles as I find it tedious but I'm lazy so in this case, I'll make an exception as your talking points are very old and have been proven inaccurate.

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Now the article above and subsequent ones were written 10 years after the fact. Look at the uproar today regarding the 9 11 victims and their cancer problems. The future always proves the past when it comes to the truth. I don't make this stuff up as this is what people have been saying for a very long time.

I'm not talking about what our buddy Donny said as he would lie about being a man if it suited the agenda his nose is or was buried in. I'm talking about independently sourced information at the time. Not the crap in headlines blowing smoke and using mirrors to do it. Do you honestly think Donny knew the true figure? You just said it was found later as their accounting varies from department to department?

You only need to look at the so-called audit recently that surprisingly (yeah right) ties into the narrative you just painted. There is gross negligence in their "creative" accounting but that doesn't explain away to the fact taxpayers money is missing from the appropriated funds they have received. Nowadays the numbers go as high as 21 trillion but who is counting. It's not like anybody is going to find out the real amount.

Your premise is not valid IMHO as you are saying no money whatsoever is unaccounted for. This is false. The fact of the matter is people come and go from service year in year out. Nobody really knows exactly where the money goes but it certainly isn't transparent. You make it sound like they are straight as an arrow. That could not be further than the truth.

I suggest you re-read my previous posts on this thread and you'll clearly see I'm not deviating whatsoever in my points. Follow the money and don't believe everything you read in the headlines.

In closing, I don't wish to annoy anybody and my main intention is to provoke individual rational thinking. My responses are based on extensive learning and reading with changes in views occurring if facts come to light that warrants it. There is nothing I've read here that I haven't heard before if there was I'd say it.

For example.....My initial question still stands, where was the cash in question accounted for later?
 
I’ll reply to this when a new thread has been created for it. If a mod could split the posts that would be great.

Got a party to attend to this afternoon :D

I agree, our debate has detracted from this thread's rhetoric and tone. I for one I'm sorry to give the forum bosses extra work in moving this over.

I appreciate the back and forth banter. While I respect your views I don't agree with them. Have a great time and I genuinely mean that.

Cheers!
 
I started to read the document on the link and got interested in the surrounding events mentioned in it. And it goes back to bill clinton launching a cruise missile attack on baghdad, and an fbi chemist whistleblower called frederic whitehurst. I think the bush assassination plot used subsequently for the 2nd iraq war was another false excuse by the neo conservatives.

To take a country into a major war costing thousands of american lives not to mention a million other deaths, to exact revenge over a totally foiled assassination plot 8 years prior, surely bush jnr had more love and respect for his country than that?

this is from the baltimore sun, an article about those events:

"It's very possible that the Iraqis tried to get Bush," says Sami G. Hajjar, a former Army War College expert on the Middle East, who says he leans toward that view. "But it wouldn't be at all a surprise if evidence emerged one day that it was staged by the Kuwaits to pump up the Iraqi threat and to ingratiate themselves with the U.S."

Others have even stronger doubts.

"I tend to be extremely skeptical about this," says a former CIA officer who worked in the region for years. "The Kuwaitis would not be reliable sources."

Most strikingly, the former FBI chemist who tested the explosive recovered in Kuwait says he told superiors it did not match known Iraqi explosives. He was astonished to hear Clinton and other officials tell the world exactly the opposite.

The chemist, Frederic Whitehurst, whose whistle-blowing in the mid-1990s led to sweeping reforms at the FBI laboratory, says he protested in letters to the Department of Justice inspector general and other top officials.

"I told the IG, there may be good reasons to send Tomahawk missiles to Baghdad. But my report did not support it," Whitehurst says.

...In November 1993, investigative reporter Seymour Hersh scrutinized the alleged plot in the New Yorker magazine and concluded that much of the evidence given by the FBI and CIA -- and presented to the
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
after the missile attack -- was flawed or wrong. He suggested that the Kuwaitis might have invented the plot, its Iraqi connection or its focus on Bush, forcing one or more plotters to confess under torture.
Hersh quoted explosives experts as saying that far from reflecting a bomb maker's unique "signature," the electronic parts were mass-produced and indistinguishable from components in ordinary walkie-talkies and other devices.
Asked about Hersh's claims, the former Clinton official said that individual intelligence officers might be skeptical because they don't have the full picture.
"You have to rely on what the senior CIA and FBI people conclude," he said.
Hersh's account was written before Whitehurst, the FBI chemist, went public with criticisms of the FBI lab's work on many cases, including the Kuwaiti plot. Whitehurst received a $1.16 million settlement when he left the FBI in 1998, many of his charges having been vindicated in a scathing, 500-page inspector general's report.
Whitehurst, now practicing law in Bethel, N.C., says his analysis showed clearly that the material from the car bomb in Kuwait did not match other Iraqi explosive samples.
When he heard reports after the missile attack that Clinton and U.N. Ambassador Madeleine K. Albright had said the explosives matched, "I
thought, 'The news has got this wrong.' I said specifically it wasn't a match." When he later saw an official FBI document misstating his findings, he filed an official protest.
The inspector general's report eventually confirmed that Whitehurst's findings had been distorted, but said government officials assured investigators that they had other evidence linking the plot to Iraq."

-------------------------
So the whole episode sounds to me murky at best, the plot story [april 1993] was used as justification for the missile attack [june 1993] and then later for the 2nd iraq war...even though the chemist assigned to do the analysis said there was no match, and there was probably torture involved to obtain the 'confessions' This would all be so easy for the CIA and kuwait etc.. to concoct, unfortunately that's the world we live in. The irony is saddam was aided to come to power by US intelligence in the first place:

According to Western scholars, as well as Iraqi refugees and a British human rights organization, the 1963 coup was accompanied by a bloodbath. Using lists of suspected Communists and other leftists provided by the C.I.A., the Baathists systematically murdered untold numbers of Iraq's educated elite, killings in which Saddam Hussein himself is said to have participated. No one knows the exact toll, but accounts agree that the victims included hundreds of doctors, teachers, technicians, lawyers and other professionals as well as military and political figures.

The United States also sent arms to the new regime, weapons later used against the same Kurdish insurgents the United States had backed against Kassem and then abandoned. Soon, Western corporations like Mobil, Bechtel and British Petroleum were doing business with Baghdad for American firms, their first major involvement in Iraq.

.....In the 1980s, the US and Britain backed Saddam in the war against Iran, giving Iraq arms, money, satellite intelligence, and even chemical & bio-weapon precursors. As many as 90 US military advisors supported Iraqi forces and helped pick targets for Iraqi air and missile attacks.


In my opinion, the real reasons for all these wars and conflicts are geopolitical and strategic, and something we will probably never find the detail about.

Edit: just to say I have no doubts that the uk have been involved in all sorts of things behind the scenes as well, and france, russia etc...that is the world we still live in, murky events happen.


I was just speculating, I'm sure there was a lot more to it than that.

I posted the video of the guy that interviewed Sadamm when this issue came up months ago, and he says Sadamm finally admitted he lied about WMD's to keep Iran at bay or something to that effect.
 
Others will remember this better than me so correct anything I get wrong.

There was a member here some years ago, I think his handle was Seventh or 7777, a nice enough guy, well liked was my impression, I certainly liked him, well he was big on conspiracy theories and then one day he just passed, he was not that old, early 50's I think. Always struck me as odd that he passed so suddenly. His sister posted under his account awhile after and said there was nothing nefarious.
 
Intrepidreport... Must be true since its alternative news created by, well anyone who wants to contribute really.

"Trump has totally eliminated the White House daily press briefing, a veritable institution in Washington. Trump also regularly rants against America’s free press as the “enemy of the people.” He means to say, “his people,” a dangerous collection of neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and low-intellect rubes who feast daily on the bait tossed out by Fox News and another cable television operation linked to the “Moonie” cult, One America News Network. Trump recently hosted a social media “summit” at the White House for 200 conspiracy progenitors, including those who believe in the codswallop from the so-called “QAnon,” a subterranean cadre of lunatics and mental patients."

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<------------------

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<-----------
 
Intrepidreport... Must be true since its alternative news created by, well anyone who wants to contribute really.

"Trump has totally eliminated the White House daily press briefing, a veritable institution in Washington. Trump also regularly rants against America’s free press as the “enemy of the people.” He means to say, “his people,” a dangerous collection of neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and low-intellect rubes who feast daily on the bait tossed out by Fox News and another cable television operation linked to the “Moonie” cult, One America News Network. Trump recently hosted a social media “summit” at the White House for 200 conspiracy progenitors, including those who believe in the codswallop from the so-called “QAnon,” a subterranean cadre of lunatics and mental patients."

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<-----------

How about 'new pooh bear character over at casinomeister maybe involved in massive thread flare up' would that count as alternative news they'd publish do you think :p ...i'm just writing it now :laugh:

I must admit I've over done fox news these last couple of days, watching tucker, lou dobbs, laura and then a bit of hannity, each and every night before I go to sleep, may not be the wisest thing for my health and sanity. :oops:
 
Ok so now we’re taking the death of a forum member and making it seem like it was mysterious cuz he was outspoken in the conspiracy theories department.

There is nothing odd about someone dying suddenly. Happens daily. It’s called life.
 
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