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North Korea and US politics
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imanorange
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You can bet your cotton socks they do. Everyone seems to forget about the Solyndra fiasco of something like 600 million dollars. It just went up in smoke, gee wiz I guess it's only a drop in the bucket. Not to mention the cash to Iran dropped from planes. You can't make this stuff up its too unbelievable.
Why are all of his college transcripts sealed anyway? Better yet, who paid for his college? Go down that road and it reveals a lot.
Of course, all of this is merely a fantasy from a good African American man with high moral standing like Barry, I mean Barack lol. I did know the term "African American" was used when he was born in 1961, the term used in those days was Negro. That is what is on his birth certificate "African American".
I'm sure that was just a clerical error. Seeing how that term wasn't officially used on documents until the 1980s and early 90s.
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I heard about those rumours, and there was something about her having an androgynous physiology but to my eye her daughters bear a strongish resemblance I'd say. Obama was largely fake, but it showed to me that americans are willing to give people a chance, he appeared different and spoke of change but things mostly carried on the same or got worse.
We will never find out the true extent of negative things he sanctioned or was mixed up in, the coup in ukraine for instance, yemen civil war and the other 'dirty' wars in the ME. Definitely not a 'good guy' in my book and now he's receiving the corporate/deep state pay off for services rendered.
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When you say his post is correct which part specifically? The point I was trying to make is that the US govt is already spending more per person than the uk and yet anyone here who becomes ill will get hospital treatment free, all ages. A lot of specialist doctors [consultants] will do private work on top of their nhs work, if you go private you can have an appointment the next day when it might take 8 weeks or more waiting through the NHS, so the system here is by no means perfect.
If you're saying the US is spending a lot of money treating foreign nationals etc.. then I can understand that average figure of $4,197 is misleading, not sure I understand though how that pushes hospitals to overcharge the govt for treatment paid by medicare, supply and demand economics for the hospital services and available doctors?
BTW not seeking to denigrate america's system but it seems to me even without the illegal immigrants [who are probably mostly young men, but I accept the children factor you mention] there would still be a problem with high costs and excessive profiteering. Trump made a point in that rally last night that under obamacare you lost the ability to choose your doctor and hospital, even though they said you'd keep it, don't know if that's right but choice of doctor is pretty important for a private healthcare system. In the nhs for some things you can choose which local hospital you'd prefer to use [outpatient illnesses] but not which doctor generally. For Gp's services you can choose and switch between which doctor you want to see, each new appointment if you wish.
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vorcirion
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I just want to say thank you! Finally someone from the right wing who can actually make some sense. Relying on evidence and all...there's hope! Didn't even need to bring up deep state once
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I just want to say thank you! Finally someone from the right wing who can actually make some sense. Relying on evidence and all...there's hope! Didn't even need to bring up deep state once
yeah but they did get a mention in my obama post above
...I haven't theorised about the possible connection between the deep state and the healthcare system...but then again 'big pharma', mercury and fluoride, immunisations, mmr...I'm sure there is a link with the right research carried out 
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vorcirion
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yeah but they did get a mention in my obama post above
Yeah you can start with Purdue Pharma. There's plenty of...interesting stuff going on in that place alone
imanorange
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Healthcare has nothing to do with a deep state it's a reality for various reasons all of which are not good. Just because someone has a different point of view does not mean they are right-wing. To me, it means they have a brain with its own rational thought, not a hive mind programmed since birth.
I wouldn't doubt the US as a whole spends more on health care than any other nation. The US has been in various wars and skirmishes for decades and the veterans need care deserving of the best which they do not get. Do those graphs include everybody from all demographics?
Here's a quick list of things to consider:
1) The US has the highest GDP with China rising close behind
2) The cost of prescription medication in the US is wickedly expensive
3) Doctors and specialists command high salaries
4) Medical malpractice insurance is expensive
5) Hospital costs are high
5) Nurses and supporting staff are needed
6) Paramedics, ambulances and public health services (logistical support)
9) Rehabilitation Centers
10) VA Hospitals
11) Convalescent homes
There are a lot more dynamics involved discussing healthcare in the US which is never mentioned anywhere. Instead, the whole mess is politicized to fit the needs of the power-hungry which ends up screwing the average hard-working, tax-paying citizen.
Healthcare is complicated as one size does not fit all. It's totally corrupted by corporate and individual greed, political stooges, and criminal scientists including doctors who care nothing about curing people, just milking them for cash.
Case in point, the plummeting mortality rate and the rising average cost per individual. It should be the other way around! To me, this speaks volumes as there is more than meets the eye.
PS - Don't get me started on a sinister connection in all of this. It goes on from the beginning of time.
I wouldn't doubt the US as a whole spends more on health care than any other nation. The US has been in various wars and skirmishes for decades and the veterans need care deserving of the best which they do not get. Do those graphs include everybody from all demographics?
Here's a quick list of things to consider:
1) The US has the highest GDP with China rising close behind
2) The cost of prescription medication in the US is wickedly expensive
3) Doctors and specialists command high salaries
4) Medical malpractice insurance is expensive
5) Hospital costs are high
5) Nurses and supporting staff are needed
6) Paramedics, ambulances and public health services (logistical support)
9) Rehabilitation Centers
10) VA Hospitals
11) Convalescent homes
There are a lot more dynamics involved discussing healthcare in the US which is never mentioned anywhere. Instead, the whole mess is politicized to fit the needs of the power-hungry which ends up screwing the average hard-working, tax-paying citizen.
Healthcare is complicated as one size does not fit all. It's totally corrupted by corporate and individual greed, political stooges, and criminal scientists including doctors who care nothing about curing people, just milking them for cash.
Case in point, the plummeting mortality rate and the rising average cost per individual. It should be the other way around! To me, this speaks volumes as there is more than meets the eye.
PS - Don't get me started on a sinister connection in all of this. It goes on from the beginning of time.
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That's very true regarding the injured veterans, I'd totally overlooked that, just shows how the msm debates/articles around this subject gloss over things and the details, as I've never seen it mentioned.
Do you think the deep state have links to big pharma, wasn't there a lot of alternative doctors bumped off a while back?
Edit: With that large list, it does seem reform which would maintain or improve the quality, but lower the costs is going to be very difficult to achieve.
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I think you will find that im a bit less english than your buddies.
Mostly because im swedish.
Do you honestly think Michelle Obama is/was a man?
Trump would have told us if she was, after all, his go-to move with women is to grab them by the pussy.
Im noticing alot of these conspiracy theories align with your political views.
Are there no conspiracies that go against your beliefs, or is it not as fun discussing those?
I mostly try to keep an open mind, but some of the theories in this thread are a bit to "out there" for me.
imanorange
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Throughout history, I believe there has been knowledge hidden from the majority of people. There is so much suppression none of us would believe the truth and prefer living in a false facade of fog. I'm speaking of the secret hidden knowledge or "mystery religion" practiced by an exclusive few throughout the ages. Those individuals control a network of handlers spanning the globe manipulating the masses.
The movie trilogy the Matrix metaphorically demonstrates this premise in a brilliant way being symbolically prophetic in many ways. Many Hollywood movies are very prophetic and this isn't by accident. They know their craft well both of mind manipulation and sorcery.
So-called scientists and experts on everything under the sun and beyond are manipulated by donors to maintain a status quo of ignorance. Long-held beliefs and theories are discredited constantly showing how anything is believable if presented to the public properly packaged. A good example of this is Darwin's theory of evolution. Talk about a pie in the sky. Try and discredit it and it's the end of your professional career unless you have deep pockets.
Look at the other side of that coin and see how regular people like you and I are silenced because of innovations that would improve the lives of everyone while putting big corporations out of business overnight. A prime example of this is all fossil fuel and electric companies that make the World go round and round. Much like the big pharmaceutical companies make a fortune selling drugs to people that ultimately kill them faster in the long run.
There is countless literature written since the printed word became massively reproduced and long before then. When books and knowledge of any sort were kept entirely in the hands of the elite.
Tons of doctors have either been silenced or never heard from again that have tried to expose realities or unlocked secrets of our World that would actually do everybody some good.
Sure, every point written above is stupendous but cannot be invalidated entirely. There is too much that remains a mystery.
imanorange
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I think you will find that im a bit less english than your buddies.
Mostly because im swedish.
Do you honestly think Michelle Obama is/was a man?
Trump would have told us if she was, after all, his go-to move with women is to grab them by the pussy.
Im noticing alot of these conspiracy theories align with your political views.
Are there no conspiracies that go against your beliefs, or is it not as fun discussing those?
I mostly try to keep an open mind, but some of the theories in this thread are a bit to "out there" for me.
View attachment 112200
Indeed I keep an open mind. One thing for sure is the truth of everything is obscured by clouds. My question is why?
My "political views" as you put it is pure skepticism. I don't believe anyone. I do believe everyone is in the dark and deceived about a great many things. That includes me 100% as well. Sure I back Trump and what he's trying to do on the surface. His words and actions look and sound good. This by no means constitutes complete trust in everything he does. Probably more accurate is will the words turn into actions carried out as intended by the people he trusts? That last part is debatable in my mind.
My question is to what end? Does he or anybody really know? My answer to that is nobody knows for sure.
In regards to Michael, I do believe we have ourselves a transgender.
Here's a small clip I found interesting. There are countless others but to me, Mr. Obama himself gave it away several times in speeches. Again, those can be found too. I happened to see a couple of them live.
Note: Read the comment under the video as they are true. Stay tuned for that video to be removed
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So all the pictures from her childhood etc is fake? Its weird how nobody who knew her as a child is coming out and telling the world about her being a man. Most "evidence" is articles from questionable sources and youtubevideos from what i could tell when i googled it.
Bush did 911, flatearth, vaccines cause autism, lizardpeople, chemtrails, fake moonlanding, are52, etc. are, to me, on about the same conspiracy-level as her being transgender.
I mostly wonder how you guys pick wich conspiracies you believe in, and wich ones are just crazy.
Like if i were to post "evidence" of trump being a lizardperson, and believe me, theres plenty of "evidence" if you just google, you would probably say those conspiracies are crazy right?
The problem with conspiracy-theories for me is that they always seem to align with the agenda,politic,view the person who believes them has.
Some people even believe my avatar changes moustache from time to time.
And according to some, the monocle was on Poohs right side at first.
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vorcirion
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It's on the right side. That's the mirror image of Pooh. Everyone knows it.
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Did you never see building 7 go down on 9/11? do large buildings collapse like this due to office fires?
Not sure politics or an agenda really comes into it. The above is supposed to be a gif but it ain't doing much
Youtube have removed many of the vids and replaced them with shill vids, but here is one of the collapse, make of it what you will...
To me it's more than enough evidence that events on that day deserve suspicion.
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<----- Maybe?There are two sides to every coin. For every page on the internet saying one thing, there will be another saying the opposite.
I cant say i have looked into it much, but what is wrong with the explanations presented in that report?
What makes you think that report is false, and instead believe what other pages say?
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I'm looking at it with my own eyes, it looks exactly like a controlled demolition. This isn't a place to get into a hostile, heavy discussion regarding the nist report. Niels Harrit, a danish science professor, goes into a lot of the scientific contradictions. And with the approach "What makes you think that report is false " you could say the same about the wmd intel prior to the 2nd iraq war, what was wrong with it, maybe it was right etc...my gut instinct tells me there is a major problem with the explanation for building 7's rapid collapse like that.
This dutch demolition expert later died in a car crash
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Ugh....
Building 7 was severely damaged and ravaged by fire. The firemen on the ground knew it would collapse and collapse it did.
I used to spend a lot of time researching (and debunking) some of the 911 “theories”.
Sometimes an apple really is just an apple.
Building 7 was severely damaged and ravaged by fire. The firemen on the ground knew it would collapse and collapse it did.
I used to spend a lot of time researching (and debunking) some of the 911 “theories”.
Sometimes an apple really is just an apple.
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This whole part of his post is correct: I'm not sure about the $30k part though.
I'd say that number is very nebulous and misleading. Was there anywhere in that article or elsewhere stating the age demographics? I seem to recall a bulk of medicare is for baby boomers and older generations.
I know lots of older folks in the States who take advantage of their Medicare benefits as they should. They earned it. With that said I've witnessed and heard how the hospitals jack up the prices when they know Medicare is flipping most of the bill. Who can afford close to $30,000 for a few days to a week?
Since Medicare only pays 80%, the hospitals need to make up the 20%. I think they over inflate the price for services to re-coop the costs. This in turn causes the insurance companies to raise premiums.
There are ads on tv here for buying Medicare Supplemental insurance to cover that 20% gap.
I run in to a gentleman in his mid-eighties. A couple years ago he had his knee replaced. I asked him how much it was, if I recall he said it was billed to the insurance company @ $28k and they settled for $19k. He had private insurance, blue cross and blue shield, which is top of the line insurance. For me to buy that plan on Obamacare would cost $1k a month.
The liberals are dreaming, 180 million have private insurance, 156 million via the employer. No way all the unions and even all the MSM anchors are going to give their premium employer based private insurance for some government run plan.
In any event none of these issues are new, the younger Bush tried to address all these problems, rising healthcare costs, immigration and the social security going broke. How long ago was he president?
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Seeing the conspiracy theories have once re-emerged and it was just the 50th anniversary of the Apollo 11 moon landing.
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imanorange
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A big agenda and politics were behind 9-11 and it worked brilliantly. The elite needed "another Pearl Harbor" as Dick Cheney stated in 1999 from a CFR (Council on Foreign Relations) memo he wrote when he was chairman. The Council On Foreign Relations is a whole other topic that is most revealing. It's origins, who has controlled it and what exactly have they done. Always big money people running it too, I wonder why? Much like the Foreign Office in the UK, they work in tandem.
A war needed to be started to bring on the NWO or UN agenda faster by emboldening the public to fight a war. Coupled with that fact he and all the cronies owned Haliburton and major stock in Raytheon among other defense contractors. Couple that with the fact Saddam was going to start selling oil in either gold or Euros. That's a huge issue for the Central Banks. Warfare makes more money than anything not to mention when it's manufactured. Did I forget all the opium in Afganistan? Other manipulations are then easily rolled out like Homeland Security and many lost freedoms we took for granted.
This is all hogwash though right? Nobody is that sinister, are they? If you believe nobody is capable of orchestrating this and a lot more I feel sorry for you.
Surprised you even found even those photos. Like you eluded to, YouTube straight out banned thousands of really good personalities who had content they said did not follow their community standards. They don't state what exactly those guidelines are. These were not hateful in any way but informative observations like 9-11. All the interviews of the firefighters and witnesses at ground zero, going to the event, during it, and after it, are gone.
Lucky there are those of us who have followed this from day one and never believe anything. Before I forget, there is huge lobbying for another 9-11 commission. This time by real architects and engineers over 5,000 professionals strong. All saying what happened to every building was impossible with a passenger jet. They have a website with explosive videos and real proof -
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Thermite charges were used on every building in the main superstructure. The only people with access to this is the US military and other governments. Please explain why all the cars around the buildings away from the debris literally melted. Why was all the rubble IMMEDIATELY put on barges and shipped to China for scrap? It was the biggest crime scene evidence in history yet it was quickly disposed of. This is all common knowledge.
The most damning evidence, as always was financial before, during and after. I won't get into the details but they in themselves clearly show the people who profited the most knew what was going to happen. Building 7 housed all the Pentagons documents regarding the missing 5 TRILLION dollars that were going to be investigated the next day. This is documented and televised with Donald Rumsfeld himself.
I could go on for days but I won't as I realize people shall never believe this it's like talking to a wall.
For everything you want and more, use Tor browser and search the Dark Web. Be sure you use a bootable OS to avoid getting hacked. Just burn a DVD and boot with that and you are safe.
Because YouTube is owned by Google (clearly caught on tape with an agenda to erase conservative thinking) anything not conducive to their own view of the World then you are gone. The same has happened in their search results. I don't use Google much anymore only for mindless drone information and my business. The thought police in full swing action just as George Orwell and many others wrote about.
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Well said lad. Some people simply just don't get it.
Also Im amazed it took so long for someone to mention Mike's shlong in here
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Well said lad. Some people simply just don't get it.
Also Im amazed it took so long for someone to mention Mike's shlong in here
This means that either you guys are supersmart for seeing the "truth" or everybody else is superstupid for not seeing it.
Must be nice.
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Bit of a leap there. Did i strike a nerve? I said "some people" .
I'd also say it means that one doesn't simply follow a group blindly by taking sides and defending that side, if they have an opinion opposite to that of a left wing opinion. Which was the main thing i quoted Orange for.
It ceartinly does not mean they are right wing by default, but (imo of course) means he or she uses his or her brain instead of acting in a collective type hivemind, as Mr. Orange put it. These people, often see the madness of the 'left wing' ideas of today and therefore if forced to, often , lean to the 'right' way of thinking. But it does not mean they are right wing.
When someone has been brought up that way from birth it is going to be a hard instinct to break.
Critical thinking etc, something not always encouraged by the Academic system, here in the UK at least, and seemingly borderline indoctrination at times, ceartinly if you attend the universities here
I'd also say it means that one doesn't simply follow a group blindly by taking sides and defending that side, if they have an opinion opposite to that of a left wing opinion. Which was the main thing i quoted Orange for.
It ceartinly does not mean they are right wing by default, but (imo of course) means he or she uses his or her brain instead of acting in a collective type hivemind, as Mr. Orange put it. These people, often see the madness of the 'left wing' ideas of today and therefore if forced to, often , lean to the 'right' way of thinking. But it does not mean they are right wing.
When someone has been brought up that way from birth it is going to be a hard instinct to break.
Critical thinking etc, something not always encouraged by the Academic system, here in the UK at least, and seemingly borderline indoctrination at times, ceartinly if you attend the universities here
imanorange
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Bit of a leap there. Did i strike a nerve? I said "some people" .
I'd also say it means that one doesn't simply follow a group blindly by taking sides and defending that side, if they have an opinion opposite to that of a left wing opinion. Which was the main thing i quoted Orange for.
It ceartinly does not mean they are right wing by default, but (imo of course) means he or she uses his or her brain instead of acting in a collective type hivemind, as Mr. Orange put it. These people, often see the madness of the 'left wing' ideas of today and therefore if forced to, often , lean to the 'right' way of thinking. But it does not mean they are right wing.
When someone has been brought up that way from birth it is going to be a hard instinct to break.
Critical thinking etc, something not always encouraged by the Academic system, here in the UK at least, and seemingly borderline indoctrination at times, ceartinly if you attend the universities here
Back in the day we had all be taught to use rational thinking. More importantly, think for yourself and research. Those days are sadly long gone.
imanorange
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@adamtheaddict well said mate I could not have conveyed it better. All of this extremism started in earnest during the 60s with the free love hippie movement and spiraled from there. Its roots go much farther back.
I'm not afraid to go against the grain so to speak and think outside the box. As I said earlier, most of my friends are English living here in Thailand as I do some American friends but they tend to be combative. My friends don't agree with a lot of what I "put out there" as a thought or hypothetical even my view but they listen and sometimes change their mind. Other times not which is fine with me.
The point is we think differently but look out for each other's back like brothers. Disagreements are constantly and we take the piss out of each other for them. That's the fun of it and also educational. I still think they are a bunch of "tossers" but I'll take a bullet for anyone of them or give them the shirt off my back. They have proven the same and that is all the matters at the end of the day. The World surrounding us cannot be controlled or agreed upon many times. We make fun of each other whenever possible. Life is too short to jump down others throats over having individuality.
I'll put a bullet in my own head if I'm forced to say or do the will of others without just cause. Just as I'll fight for my rights and those of my friends and family. I only wish the best for people regardless of where they are from, what they believe or like to do as long as it doesn't hurt me or others. Politics is a load of bullshit that people use badly in most cases. I prefer to not engage myself in person.
This "do as I say not as I do" attitude is destroying the fabric of society in general.
I'm not afraid to go against the grain so to speak and think outside the box. As I said earlier, most of my friends are English living here in Thailand as I do some American friends but they tend to be combative. My friends don't agree with a lot of what I "put out there" as a thought or hypothetical even my view but they listen and sometimes change their mind. Other times not which is fine with me.
The point is we think differently but look out for each other's back like brothers. Disagreements are constantly and we take the piss out of each other for them. That's the fun of it and also educational. I still think they are a bunch of "tossers" but I'll take a bullet for anyone of them or give them the shirt off my back. They have proven the same and that is all the matters at the end of the day. The World surrounding us cannot be controlled or agreed upon many times. We make fun of each other whenever possible. Life is too short to jump down others throats over having individuality.
I'll put a bullet in my own head if I'm forced to say or do the will of others without just cause. Just as I'll fight for my rights and those of my friends and family. I only wish the best for people regardless of where they are from, what they believe or like to do as long as it doesn't hurt me or others. Politics is a load of bullshit that people use badly in most cases. I prefer to not engage myself in person.
This "do as I say not as I do" attitude is destroying the fabric of society in general.
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Bit of a leap there. Did i strike a nerve? I said "some people" .
I'd also say it means that one doesn't simply follow a group blindly by taking sides and defending that side, if they have an opinion opposite to that of a left wing opinion. Which was the main thing i quoted Orange for.
It ceartinly does not mean they are right wing by default, but (imo of course) means he or she uses his or her brain instead of acting in a collective type hivemind, as Mr. Orange put it. These people, often see the madness of the 'left wing' ideas of today and therefore if forced to, often , lean to the 'right' way of thinking. But it does not mean they are right wing.
When someone has been brought up that way from birth it is going to be a hard instinct to break.
Critical thinking etc, something not always encouraged by the Academic system, here in the UK at least, and seemingly borderline indoctrination at times, ceartinly if you attend the universities here
I was mostly talking about imanorange:s quote.
Whats the difference between saying "i came to this conclusion because i can think rationally and do not belong to the hivemind thats being programmed" and "Im smarter than everybody else"?
Its basically saying he is immune to the programming the rest of us fools fall for so easily. Because there is no way the information he gets could have an agenda behind it and be its own way to program people, because, well it just cant, right?
That mindset does not open up for discussion at all either. If the people who have opposing views are just non-rational thinkers programmed by the hivemind, that means you win every discussion by default, no?
Because why would you even entertain the idea that someone you perceive to be not capable of rational thinking and is being programmed is right?
Edit: Also im somewhat sure it said "mindless drones controlled by the hivemind" the first time i read the quote.
Seems it changed..
Edit again: nope it was me who was wrong haha, i mixed up some comments in my head.
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Indeed. Often people attempt character assassination towards someone for not being the same as the group. saying such things like, this is not a good look, where in essence often they're simply saying you look bad...rather than that you are wrong.
Because in some peoples limited minds, being a social outcast is the worst thing you can be. It's like a projection of sorts, many are so often scared to be seen as a social outcast, something that has been hammered into ther heads, and because some people fear that so much, they use it as a sort of weapon. Like it's an attempt to make you imagine there is a group of people who's opinions you should care about, rather than actually challenge your ideas.
But as you said, it points to a hivemind way of being brought up since birth.. and (imo) many, therefor project that as a way of attacking you. Because you dare not to think the same way. Like, you're not popular in our group - therefor you should feel bad.
I mean, just look around.. who wants to be seen as unpopular in todays world, to many it's been hammered into their heads this is a fate worse than death .... lol
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I was mostly talking about imanorange:s quote.
Whats the difference between saying "i came to this conclusion because i can think rationally and do not belong to the hivemind thats being programmed" and "Im smarter than everybody else"?
Its basically saying he is immune to the programming the rest of us fools fall for so easily. Because there is no way the information he gets could have an agenda behind it and be its own way to program people, because, well it just cant, right?
That mindset does not open up for discussion at all either. If the people who have opposing views are just non-rational thinkers programmed by the hivemind, that means you win every discussion by default, no?
Because why would you even entertain the idea that someone you perceive to be not capable of rational thinking and is being programmed is right?
Edit: Also im somewhat sure it said "mindless drones controlled by the hivemind" the first time i read the quote.
Seems it changed..
Edit again: nope it was me who was wrong haha, i mixed up some comments in my head.
Fair enough. Since you quoted me i figured it was directly at me.
I don't have time for everything, but the bit i put in bold i reply to:
i once felt the same way as those who you refer to as "fools" . There was no "information" that i go which made me stop thinking that way. Since I was never interested in politics for a long time, and neither did i care for it, at a young age and from a neutral point of view I'd see on the tv these people, and id always wonder, why is it always untrustworthy looking absolute donkeys that are getting into power.
For the UK, T. May, Tony Blair, David pigfucker Cameron, Boris wtf johnson, etc.. in the US Bush, Bill, (Obama seemd intelligent), Trump...
So no, the more i noticed, the less interest i had in joining/siding with one of these groups, when ultimately, to me, it didn't really seem to matter in the overall scheme of things. It's almost like we are told to choose a side and fight amongst ourselves, when one way or another, at different paces depending on who the puppet in charge is that year, regarding the most important matters.. we still end up going down the same path. And its the puppet who takes the blame. Repeat, repeat repeat. If he or she steps out of line, starts addressing the kind of shit that say, JFK was.. well.. RIP JFK.
FWIW i only saw Trump as releif valve for the US, to give them back some hope. I mean, they made sure the other choice was Hillary ffs. Anyone could see that nobody really trusted the Clintons, so people blindly put their hope and faith in Trump. Those who make sure these puppets are in place were just trying to give the people what they want.... in the name of 'democracy'
imanorange
Dormant Account
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- Thailand
I was mostly talking about imanorange:s quote.
Whats the difference between saying "i came to this conclusion because i can think rationally and do not belong to the hivemind thats being programmed" and "Im smarter than everybody else"?
Its basically saying he is immune to the programming the rest of us fools fall for so easily. Because there is no way the information he gets could have an agenda behind it and be its own way to program people, because, well it just cant, right?
That mindset does not open up for discussion at all either. If the people who have opposing views are just non-rational thinkers programmed by the hivemind, that means you win every discussion by default, no?
Because why would you even entertain the idea that someone you perceive to be not capable of rational thinking and is being programmed is right?
Edit: Also im somewhat sure it said "mindless drones controlled by the hivemind" the first time i read the quote.
Seems it changed..
Edit again: nope it was me who was wrong haha, i mixed up some comments in my head.
I never said I came to any conclusions. Please do not attribute words you are using to what I said. If you took my comments about the lack of free thought personally that is entirely your prerogative but they were not directed at anybody in particular. My points are well researched and not once did I insinuate a higher intelligence for myself. It is simply good old fashioned digging and research in books and history. If you go back and read my initial first couple posts on this thread I clearly state "do not believe me" and "I hope I'm wrong" among other selfless caveats. In addition, I beat myself up and I'll be the first to say I'm wrong.
I've stated how I constantly make mistakes and even joked about it. I'm fallible and flawed like the next person probably more in a lot of ways. My main point is historical facts have been twisted and new "revelations" and discoveries are found proving experts wrong. I'm not an expert but I do have a brain that thinks and eyes that see. History has proven the massive lies, cover-ups and self-serving individuals going back thousands of years.
Without a doubt, I'm wrong about a great many things and I hope that is the case for much of what I have said. I said this a couple of times.
Why do you think I feel superior? That could not be farther from the truth. Please be specific. I take exception to be branded something I'm totally the opposite of. I am the most humble person and known for it. I read a lot and spend time alone more than most people if I can. I have worked online since the internet began and prefer to work alone. I also have an establishment to look over and run. The last few months I've taken a break for the first time in 30 years.
I am truly sorry you have manifested an inferiority complex over reading the information I've come across in-depth. Much of it I have a better than average knowledge of. I've had this discussion with many people spanning the globe of all backgrounds and intelligence. That said, I only share information and thoughts if the other party rams their views down my throat. Never has anybody accused me of being condescending.
I have and always will respect the opinions of others. That doesn't mean I have to like them or agree with them. And if they can't take having shots fired across the bow, not below the waist then I suggest they get out of the fire.
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- East Yorkshire, UK
1. There is no huge lobbying going on. One organisation does not equate to huge lobbying.
2. That particular organisation lacks support from the relevant professional communities.
3. It’s over 3000 “professionals”, not 5000.
4. Thermite was not used, at all. Anywhere.
5. Not one single car melted.
5. The reports have shown quite clearly exactly how what happened was as a result of passenger jets flying into the towers.
6. All of the rubble wasn’t immediately shipped to China.
One short paragraph, lots of mistakes. I thought all of this nonsense had stopped years ago. I thought wrong
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- sweden
Haha, nah, why would anyone ever accuse you of something like that.
I never said i had an inferiority complex did i? So im gueesing you just assume i must feel inferior after reading the things you write.
How smug and condescending can one person get before he notices it himself?
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- Oct 11, 2006
- Location
- USA
Sorry but Adam and Orange are right. When I first came back here and started to post in the political forum I was shocked at how much people outside of America mimicked the US progressive media anchors and pundits on MSNBC.
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- USA
I never got the impression you had a superiority complex but I can't say that for everyone in the forum.
imanorange
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- Thailand
1. There is no huge lobbying going on. One organisation does not equate to huge lobbying.
2. That particular organisation lacks support from the relevant professional communities.
3. It’s over 3000 “professionals”, not 5000.
4. Thermite was not used, at all. Anywhere.
5. Not one single car melted.
5. The reports have shown quite clearly exactly how what happened was as a result of passenger jets flying into the towers.
6. All of the rubble wasn’t immediately shipped to China.
One short paragraph, lots of mistakes. I thought all of this nonsense had stopped years ago. I thought wrong
It's actually more than 3,000 my friend as many don't wish to have their names or identities revealed as they have families to feed. If you drill down their following it's in the hundreds of thousands. Many of which are related to victims of the attacks or know somebody who was. But they are willing to fight in support of the truth per the evidence and professional opinions. My number of 5,000 was the last time I saw an interview of the guy who started it about 2 years ago. It was started way before that.
The rest of your statements are rather definitive like you are an authority. May I ask what are their sources? Which reporters have shown quite clearly what happened. Are they authorities of terrorism and were they there?
How did the British reporter know building 7 collapsed 20 minutes before it happened. This was on live TV and it shows the building falling in the background as she's lying her ass off. Perhaps you didn't watch that part.
Eye witness accounts, police reports, and independent studies have proven the existence of both thermite and metal contaminants consistent with the use of it. Tell this to the victims suffering from breathing disorders and the loved ones to those who died from inhaling it. There is proof in their autopsies and independent doctors opinions. The melted cars, same as I said earlier in this paragraph. There is even a common phrase used in fires and in jest because of this, "burned like it was on ground zero"
For some reason, the search engines have buried these reports in their searches but they sure as hell have loads of reputation management debunking stories on the first 5 or 10 pages. Coincidence?
Where are the forensic studies of the rubble like what is done after a plane crash? Surely they would have this times 50 with the importance of getting to the bottom of things. There should be thousands of photos and pages of information if your claim is accurate. Where did the rubble go? How do you know this? Please show me where anything was done and also where you go to this information.
Seem you know a lot about the organization mate. I've been following them and to be more specific the gentleman that started in for a very long time. He lost a lot of work and pissed off a lot of people because of his tenacity. His presentation and videos are even more impressive. Your internet search yielded a bounty of information found within seconds on the first one or two pages of the definitive Google.
I have read books on this subject and I know people that were there when it happened. I was in Florida that morning and my friend's brother was in Manhattan. The phone lines were clogged for hours and his brother told us a tremendous tale with tears in his eyes. So yeah my information is not first hand but it has authority and hundreds of hours of reading and hundreds more of discussions along with watching videos.
Discrediting something is easy by making blanket definitive statements backing them up with hard facts is another. I hope I'm wrong about everything but convinced otherwise based on my own discoveries and talking to people relatively close to what happened. Cheers
paul7388
Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
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- glasgow scotland
Just as i thought this thread could not get worse.
Started about N.korea and had stupid arguments.
Ended up about Trump. More stupid arguments.
And now it is full of one lot of conspiracy garbage. Some people really spend too much time on internet looking for explanations that don't exist. Trawl through all the conspiracy sites. Then actually believe everything they read lol.
Started about N.korea and had stupid arguments.
Ended up about Trump. More stupid arguments.
And now it is full of one lot of conspiracy garbage. Some people really spend too much time on internet looking for explanations that don't exist. Trawl through all the conspiracy sites. Then actually believe everything they read lol.
imanorange
Dormant Account
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- Thailand
Honestly, buddy, this is how I felt but expected it. The reason is I have lived in Asia (Both the Philippines and Thailand) for over 30 years. Thailand in specific is a major hub for travelers from all over the World. I have always been amazed at the same narrative being echoed in most Western countries and has been steadily spreading globally since the internet started, I've witnessed it. Indian, Arab and African people have a much different view of the World still but it is tilting.
You don't need to look any further than who owns the majority of media outlets across the World. Always one of six with a few independents barely hanging on. As they say a lot these days, "It is what it is" and people generally don't like to hear this.
If you don't like what i say my suggestion is block me as I speak from the hip and generally know what I'm talking about. If I make a mistake or say something the wrong way I own up to it. I don't go to search engines or say things I heard on the news because I don't watch the news. I read it or more accurately aggregate it. I watch RT from time to time and I highly recommend the "World According To Jesse (Ventura)". It's on YouTube and their website. His views are based on some interesting observations and not just talking points.
One thing I learned being around people 3 and almost 5 times my age when I was younger is to shut up and listen. Now I'm almost 50 and most of those people are dead.
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imanorange
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- Thailand
Fair enough. Since you quoted me i figured it was directly at me.
I don't have time for everything, but the bit i put in bold i reply to:
i once felt the same way as those who you refer to as "fools" . There was no "information" that i go which made me stop thinking that way. Since I was never interested in politics for a long time, and neither did i care for it, at a young age and from a neutral point of view I'd see on the tv these people, and id always wonder, why is it always untrustworthy looking absolute donkeys that are getting into power.
For the UK, T. May, Tony Blair, David pigfucker Cameron, Boris wtf johnson, etc.. in the US Bush, Bill, (Obama seemd intelligent), Trump...
So no, the more i noticed, the less interest i had in joining/siding with one of these groups, when ultimately, to me, it didn't really seem to matter in the overall scheme of things. It's almost like we are told to choose a side and fight amongst ourselves, when one way or another, at different paces depending on who the puppet in charge is that year, regarding the most important matters.. we still end up going down the same path. And its the puppet who takes the blame. Repeat, repeat repeat. If he or she steps out of line, starts addressing the kind of shit that say, JFK was.. well.. RIP JFK.
FWIW i only saw Trump as releif valve for the US, to give them back some hope. I mean, they made sure the other choice was Hillary ffs. Anyone could see that nobody really trusted the Clintons, so people blindly put their hope and faith in Trump. Those who make sure these puppets are in place were just trying to give the people what they want.... in the name of 'democracy'
I had to comment on your post as I can almost hear the words being spoken. It's people like you that are the backbone of great nations.
Free thinking can be dangerous these days. I would imagine arguing is second nature to you. Cheers!
Lastly, I'm not here to cause problems just state my take from the little that I think I know.
- Joined
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- south east england
Orange, I got disappointed with jesse when he seemed to give credence to judy wood, who came out with a theory the towers were destroyed by guided laser weapons or some advanced hi tech military weapon that no one's ever seen before? Which I did think was a crackpot theory, and richard gage from Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth had no time for her theories either.
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- USA
Naw, have at it.
- Joined
- May 8, 2018
- Location
- south east england
It's always odd to me when members who never normally post in this thread, or others that involve theories and debates, suddenly feel a strong need to do so, and then only in order to back up and support official govt narrative... normally with the least amount of explanation and work put into the post, just aimed more at encouraging forum derision towards another member's views.
It's so predictable to me now, that I bet they also support the wmd claims of tony blair and the justification of the iraq war invasion. Oh and dr david kelly's suicide, the spy Gareth williams found dead, locked in a sports bag did it to himself etc... and so on.
Edit: Anyone who dislikes my posts just put me on block
normally with the least amount of explanation and work put into the post, just aimed more at encouraging forum derision towards another member's views.It's so predictable to me now, that I bet they also support the wmd claims of tony blair and the justification of the iraq war invasion. Oh and dr david kelly's suicide, the spy Gareth williams found dead, locked in a sports bag did it to himself etc... and so on.
Edit: Anyone who dislikes my posts just put me on block
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You know what, I wish I hadn’t bothered replying now. I just don’t have the time to get in to it at this moment in time and I’ve done it all before... Deja Vu much.
I’ve read countless books on the subject and read the reports, I’ve read what the Truthers think and seen how easy it is to pick apart their arguments. I’ve spoken to people who were there and I remember the day vividly. The Internet Archive has all of the news reports too, btw - in chronological order.
The confusion of that day is one thing that seems to have been forgotten. No one knew what was going on at the time and this becomes apparent when one revisits the news from the day.
That goes some way to explaining what you said about the BBC reporter btw. They also addressed it years ago, you can read about it here:
Incidentally, my eldest son used to volunteer for a local rescue service. His boss was Paul Berriff. He was in Manhattan on 9/11 and he is the person who filmed one of the towers collapsing, almost on top of him. It’s quite famous footage, you’ve probably seen it.
I will address this now though:
I would like to see some of those police reports that state people have died because they inhaled “thermite and metal contaminants”.
A hell of a lot of people have died since 9/11 because they inhaled toxic fumes. All of that crap that was released when the buildings came down and the fires. There was so much smoke it could be seen from space!
Sure, Ground Zero has been in use since the 1940s and was used to describe the ground directly below the atom bomb explosions at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. It got pretty hot hence why the term is used...
I’ll get to the rest later, when I have some more time and access to my laptop. I’m currently supposed to be babysitting and I’m doing this on my phone.
It should also perhaps be discussed in a new thread, seeing how it’s got absolutely nothing to do with what this thread is supposed to be about.
I’ve read countless books on the subject and read the reports, I’ve read what the Truthers think and seen how easy it is to pick apart their arguments. I’ve spoken to people who were there and I remember the day vividly. The Internet Archive has all of the news reports too, btw - in chronological order.
The confusion of that day is one thing that seems to have been forgotten. No one knew what was going on at the time and this becomes apparent when one revisits the news from the day.
That goes some way to explaining what you said about the BBC reporter btw. They also addressed it years ago, you can read about it here:
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Incidentally, my eldest son used to volunteer for a local rescue service. His boss was Paul Berriff. He was in Manhattan on 9/11 and he is the person who filmed one of the towers collapsing, almost on top of him. It’s quite famous footage, you’ve probably seen it.
I will address this now though:
I would like to see some of those police reports that state people have died because they inhaled “thermite and metal contaminants”.
A hell of a lot of people have died since 9/11 because they inhaled toxic fumes. All of that crap that was released when the buildings came down and the fires. There was so much smoke it could be seen from space!
Sure, Ground Zero has been in use since the 1940s and was used to describe the ground directly below the atom bomb explosions at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. It got pretty hot hence why the term is used...
I’ll get to the rest later, when I have some more time and access to my laptop. I’m currently supposed to be babysitting and I’m doing this on my phone.
It should also perhaps be discussed in a new thread, seeing how it’s got absolutely nothing to do with what this thread is supposed to be about.
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2017
- Location
- East Yorkshire, UK
It's always odd to me when members who never normally post in this thread, or others that involve theories and debates, suddenly feel a strong need to do so, and then only in order to back up and support official govt narrative...
It's so predictable to me now, that I bet they also support the wmd claims of tony blair and the justification of the iraq war invasion. Oh and dr david kelly's suicide, the spy Gareth williams found dead, locked in a sports bag did it to himself etc... and so on.
Edit: Anyone who dislikes my posts just put me on block
Really Mack, that’s what you think?
Do I have an agenda because I see something that is blatantly wrong and I feel the need to say something about it? Like I said, I wish I hadn’t bothered.
In another life I ran a website that debunked fantastical claims and such like. It tended to focus on Ufology but this stuff came up quite regularly too.
I can provide you with countless links but why the hell should I? I’m not the one making these claims; claims that fly in the face of all of the evidence and which have been debunked countless times over the years. I honestly can’t believe the same old crap is still being spouted about this years later.
I need to provide links but it’s ok for Orange to randomly come out and say the things he is saying with nothing to back it up with? Melted cars, really? People breathing in thermite, really? Ok then.
On your other point, at the time I believed those WMD claims, but after looking at all of the available evidence since then I’ve changed my mind. That ok?
- Joined
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- Location
- USA
Would I be wrong in saying you didn't get the same media coverage on 9/11/2001 we did here in the US?
starts at around 9 minutes in. its a 2 hour video.
Fox & Friends 9-11-01 - Fox News Channel Live as Tragedy Occurred
starts at around 9 minutes in. its a 2 hour video.
Fox & Friends 9-11-01 - Fox News Channel Live as Tragedy Occurred
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- Location
- East Yorkshire, UK
I watched it all on Sky News and BBC News. They were both showing news from all of the US news channels for the most part, but did have their own footage there too.
I couldn’t play that video, states it’s unavailable.
Edit to add:
I’ve seen much of the US news coverage on the Internet Archive.
I couldn’t play that video, states it’s unavailable.
Edit to add:
I’ve seen much of the US news coverage on the Internet Archive.
- Joined
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- Location
- south east england
Why would you go to all this effort, reading all the 9/11 books/reports in order to debunk theories, that's the govt's job to reply to questions/raised doubts and provide answers.
Most people get interested in 9/11 because something doesn't quite add up, but you're the opposite, you study it in order to be able to protect the official narrative... very strange... I bet you have an answer to every weakness in the story..the grounded fighter jets, how amateur pilots could fly large jumbo jets at that speed and hit the towers with such accuracy:
"They almost had to hit the towers like they were threading the eye of a needle," said Michael Barr, director of aviation safety programs at the University of Southern California and a former Air Force fighter-bomber pilot.
"The routes they were flying were very different--one plane coming from the north and the other coming from the south. That adds greatly to the complexity [of synchronizing the attack] and it requires a degree of skill to prevent the planes from banking too much or descending too fast while keeping on course....
The terrorists who commandeered American Flight 77, a Boeing 757-200 that crashed into the Pentagon, displayed similar levels of proficiency in the aircraft's advanced navigation and automated flight systems, authorities said.
Such systems require pilots to program the desired course heading and altitude into an onboard computer, and the plane carries out the instructions.
maneuvering a plane to change its flight path or navigate the craft in changing weather conditions would require months of additional training and experience.
Unlike a small private plane where pilots generally fly visually, a commercial plane like those hijacked Tuesday require a vast command of navigation techniques as well as in-depth knowledge of their myriad systems, from hydraulics to the autopilot."
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