North Korea and US politics

[vorcirion]

why not just say I'm confident trump committed a crime, that's what a summary is for to summarise the findings, surely mueller should have just done that...instead of pussy footing around for ever more, dragging things out and prolonging this circus.

Because that would be accusing Trump of a crime while he can't prosecute him. He can't do anything to Trump while he is the president...that's the whole problem. Only congress can do something about it and he's clearly saying that Trump isn't innocent...do something! Mueller is too by-the-book kind of guy. I wish he was more direct so even trumpster would understand.

 

[Steviedoo]

why not just say I'm confident trump committed a crime, that's what a summary is for to summarise the findings, surely mueller should have just done that...instead of pussy footing around for ever more, dragging things out and prolonging this circus.

when a prosecutor says he lacks jurisdiction to prosecute an offense and so refers the offense to the body(congress)that he believes does have jurisdiction ... that's not a finding of innocence.

 

[mack341]

when a prosecutor says he lacks jurisdiction to prosecute an offense and so refers the offense to the body(congress)that he believes does have jurisdiction ... that's not a finding of innocence.

is it a finding of guilt? [of colluding with russia]

 

[Steviedoo]

is it a finding of guilt? [of colluding with russia]

Obstruction of justice

And btw. He did summarize his findings except Barr and trump set the narrative that the president was innocent. And so the narrative was set. Barr should have never interpreted the findings

 

[mack341]

Another point I made a while back, did the russians collude to get trump the republican nomination? If the russians wanted trump to be president and he sought their help it must go back to the nomination process, otherwise the dastardly plan fails at the first step?

If however Trump running in his first attempt to be a politician didn't need their help to beat the other experienced republican candidates, why did he suddenly need russian help to beat hillary?

And if he doesn't get russian help this time round he'll lose the forthcoming election, surely that must be the logical conclusion democrats believe?

Or perhaps he beat Hillary fair and square and it was in fact trump who faced continuous unfair and biased coverage from 90% of the media? So hillary had all the help she could want for and still lost...

 

[Steviedoo]

Another point I made a while back, did the russians collude to get trump the republican nomination? If the russians wanted trump to be president and he sought their help it must go back to the nomination process, otherwise the dastardly plan fails at the first step?

If however Trump running in his first attempt to be a politician didn't need their help to beat the other experienced republican candidates, why did he suddenly need russian help to beat hillary?

And if he doesn't get russian help this time round he'll lose the forthcoming election, surely that must be the logical conclusion democrats believe?

Or perhaps he beat Hillary fair and square and it was in fact trump who faced continuous unfair and biased coverage from 90% of the media? So hillary had all the help she could want for and still lost...

I don’t how many times anyone has to say it. The Russians interfered in our election in favor of trump. Whether he colluded with them or not has not been proven.


And to get back to your other point about if there was a crime:

Robert Mueller: "As set forth in the report, after that investigation, if we had had confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so."

 

[mack341]

I don’t how many times anyone has to say it. The Russians interfered in our election in favor of trump. Whether he colluded with them or not has not been proven.


And to get back to your other point about if there was a crime:

Robert Mueller: "As set forth in the report, after that investigation, if we had had confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so."

It doesn't matter how many times something is said it doesn't make it true, 'iraq has weapons of mass destruction' how many times did high ranking us politicians, officials and journalists trot that bs out?

I think the dnc server leak was a whistleblower and not a russian hacker, and the russian anti hillary ads/memes or whatever made no difference to the outcome as many, many more were being posted by ordinary americans anyway.

re mueller, so does that not mean if he was confident that trump had commited a crime he would also have said so? seems like he has made a not innocent~ not guilty conclusion and wants congress to decide...

 

[Steviedoo]

It doesn't matter how many times something is said it doesn't make it true, 'iraq has weapons of mass destruction' how many times did high ranking us politicians, officials and journalists trot that bs out?

I think the dnc server leak was a whistleblower and not a russian hacker, and the russian anti hillary ads/memes or whatever made no difference to the outcome as many, many more were being posted by ordinary americans anyway.

re mueller, so does that not mean if he was confident that trump had commited a crime he would also have said so? seems like he has made a not innocent~ not guilty conclusion and wants congress to decide...

Omg seriously.

Mueller found evidence of Russian interference in our election and it was the Russians. It’s a fact. It’s been three years.


It’s amazing how you spin.

It is serious thing to accuse a president of obstruction and or any other crime.

He found evidence of a crime. He does not have the power to prosecute only congress has the power to do so through impeachment.

If he was innocent he would have said so. He recommended that congress do their jobs.

 

[goatwack]

Is this the Russian Collusion

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thing again

 

[Harry_BKK]

is it a finding of guilt? [of colluding with russia]

It probably will never be known how much Mr. T colluded with Russia. Back in 2008/2009 or thereabouts one of his sons bragged how they get all the funding they needed from Russia (on record).

I can tell you one thing from growing up in a country neighbouring Russia and having spent substantial time in Russia in my business life. Russians NEVER EVER do something without a reason.

Mr. T had aspirations to run for president going back to the 90s and the first decade of the 21st century - first as independent, then as democrat and when he realized no one was taking him serious he turned suddenly into a Republican. The Republicans themselves were desperate to get a Republican president as they could see the window for Supreme Court judges opening up. You just have to see what the focus of Mitch has been in the last 2.5 years.

So the Russians knew very well this guy and the Republicans wanted to get that top job pretty desperately.

Russians are masters in grooming people for their needs and objectives. Those efforts can take years but they know at any point in time what they are doing and what result they want to get. They pumped him full of money when no American bank would give Mr. T as much as a cent. Do you really think that was just a goodwill gesture or a charitable move by the Russians? BTW, talk to any rich person in Russia or an oligarch, they are all very close to Putin, very close.

Mr. T himself spend considerable time in/with Russia/ns. Exactly the ONLY bank who gave Mr. T loans, and huge loans at that, was the bank which has been part of the biggest money laundering case in our history, involving billions of dollars from Russia (Deutsche Bank). These were US dollars, not Euro, GBP or anything else, so it all went through the US banking system. Deutsche Bank was very helpful in covering it all up and at the same time gave Trump loans worth billions. No connection? I don't think you need to be an expert to know that one of the best ways to launder money is by investing into real estate.

AML experts at Deutsche Bank flagged transactions from Mr. T and sunny boy Kushi (where's the peace plan? ) to Russians, yet executives never reported them as required by the law.

Or take the NRA who gave / spent $30 million or thereabouts for Mr. T's campaign. They themselves received big donations from Russia or from people connected to Russians. And the NRA got then heavily invested in Russia to help setting up a similar association. Imagine, the NRA going into the country what was/is seen as the US's biggest enemy to collaborate with them in setting up a gun rights association.

These are just a few things mack, but do you really think these are just pure coincidences?

That Mueller didn't find any concrete evidence of collusion does not mean there wasn't any. Remember, Mr. T complained why his lawyer was taking notes. There are ways to communicate without having any paper or digital trail.

Kushi and others in his administration have been found to use Whatsapp and other encrypted messaging apps (which delete sent messages) when talking to foreign governments. Why would you do that if you have nothing to hide? And they probably have been doing it long before Mr. T was elected.

The list could go on and on mate.

 

[Steviedoo]

The gop is owned by the Russians.

Mitch McConnell is blocking the bill to protect the United States from Russian interference in future elections

unpatriotic and despicable from an American public official.

Why would he do that?

 

[vorcirion]

The gop is owned by the Russians.

Mitch McConnell is blocking the bill to protect the United States from Russian interference in future elections

unpatriotic and despicable from an American public official.

Why would he do that?

They need all the help they can after alienating 60-70% of women For some reason right-wingers in many countries really want to get help from Russia. I don't know what kind of nationalism is that.

 

[mack341]

Back in 2008/2009 or thereabouts one of his sons bragged how they get all the funding they needed from Russia (on record).

It wouldn't surprise me if Trump was tied up with the oligarchs, some of which are despised by putin and some seem to be putin supporters but I doubt it was the russian state itself financing trump.

What has trump actually done in office to help russia, more us/nato weapons are being placed on the russian border, diplomats expelled, sanctions increased etc... it doesn't look to me like he's russia's man and giving them what they want.

America splits into democrats and republicans plus the floating voter and people who don't vote e.g. given up on politics etc.. it seems to me trump was able to win over more of middle america because hillary was carrying so much more negative political baggage even before the dnc leak [trump though probably had more off putting personal baggage]

Or take the NRA who gave / spent $30 million or thereabouts for Mr. T's campaign. They themselves received big donations from Russia or from people connected to Russians. And the NRA got then heavily invested in Russia to help setting up a similar association. Imagine, the NRA going into the country what was/is seen as the US's biggest enemy to collaborate with them in setting up a gun rights association.

These are just a few things mack, but do you really think these are just pure coincidences?

Russia has only been seen as the US's biggest enemy [publicly, rather than the views of think tanks behind the scenes] since it's intervention in syria and the ukraine/crimea, before then relations weren't too bad. So I don't know when the NRA tie up happened but also there are influential people in russia who are pro west and would prefer putin to do what the west want and go along to get along. And open russia up more to outside investment etc...otherwise they might as well go back to communism.

The democrats and people on the left have to win the political arguments, but they're now hooked up on identity politics and open borders so much it starts to look a bit too militant, tying people up in knots regarding free speech...didn't there used to be a political saying 'it's the economy stupid'...but with offshoring manufacturing [globalism] and poor education the democrats really have no solutions for the problems poor america faces, the dnc don't like bernie as he's too socialist, so where can they go, being simply anti trump isn't really enough of a policy I think...

 

[mack341]

Omg seriously.

Mueller found evidence of Russian interference in our election and it was the Russians. It’s a fact. It’s been three years.


It’s amazing how you spin.

It is serious thing to accuse a president of obstruction and or any other crime.

He found evidence of a crime. He does not have the power to prosecute only congress has the power to do so through impeachment.

If he was innocent he would have said so. He recommended that congress do their jobs.

It's amazing how you slip sly insults into every post but there you go...

I found this article last night regarding the issue of russian hacking, from the american spectator website [i have no idea of the political leaning of said site etc] entitled:

"Mr. Mueller: Was the DNC Server Actually Hacked by the Russians?"

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it's an easy to read article and very interesting, worth reading in its entirety, but here is an extract:

...the mainstream media have stubbornly clung to the Trump-Russia collusion narrative. And central to that the narrative is that the Trump campaign colluded with the Russians to hack the DNC email server.

But, in their coverage, the mainstream media have downplayed the very odd behavior of the DNC, the putative target of the alleged hack. For, when the Department of Homeland Security and the FBI learned of the hacking claim, they asked to examine the server.

And the DNC refused.

Why would the purported victim of a crime refuse to cooperate with law enforcement in solving that crime? Is it hiding something? Is it afraid the server’s contents will discredit the Russia-hacking story?

The answers to those questions began to emerge thanks to an

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. By no means a pro-Trump publication, the Nation published an exhaustive report about an exacting forensic investigation of the DNC hack by the Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS), an organization of former CIA, FBI, National Security Agency, and military intelligence officers, technical experts, and analysts.

As reported by the Nation, VIPS has a well-established record of debunking questionable intelligence assessments that have been slanted to serve political purposes. For example, in the run-up to the invasion of Iraq, VIPS courageously and correctly challenged the accuracy and veracity of the CIA’s intelligence estimates that Saddam Hussein possessed weapons of mass destruction and that he posed a threat to the United States. Similarly, VIPS has condemned the use of “enhanced interrogation techniques” on suspected terrorists. In short, VIPS can hardly be described as either a right-wing cabal or as carrying water for the Republican Party.

In its analysis of the purported DNC hack, VIPS brought to bear the impressive talents of more than a dozen experienced, well-credentialed experts, including William Binney, a former NSA technical director and cofounder of the NSA’s Signals Intelligence Automation Research Center; Edward Loomis, former NSA technical director for the Office of Signals Processing; and Skip Folden, a former IBM information technology manager. As the French would say, these are l’hommes serieux, as are the other computer-system designers, program architects, and analysts with whom they investigated the Clinton-DNC hack story.

As set forth in the article, VIPS’ investigative findings were nothing short of stunning.

First, VIPS concluded that the DNC data were not hacked by the Russians or anyone else accessing the server over the internet. Instead, the data were downloaded by means of a thumb drive or similar portable storage device physically attached to the DNC server.

How was this determined? The time stamps contained in the released computer files’ metadata establish that, at 6:45 p.m. July 5, 2016, 1,976 megabytes (not megabits) of data were downloaded from the DNC’s server. This took 87 seconds, which means the transfer rate was 22.7 megabytes per second, a speed, according to VIPS, that “is much faster than what is physically possible with a hack.” Such a speed could be accomplished only by direct connection of a portable storage device to the server. Accordingly, VIPS concluded that the DNC data theft was an inside job by someone with physical access to the server.

....Moreover, for what it is worth, Julian Assange has repeatedly denied that Russia “or any state actor” was the source of the stolen DNC data published by WikiLeaks. And his denials have just received oblique partial confirmation in a

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which features a lengthy and sympathetic portrayal of Christopher Steele.

Buried toward the end of the article comes the revelation that, on July 26, 2016 (four days after WikiLeaks published the DNC emails), “Steele filed yet another memo” in which “Steele’s sources claimed that the [DNC] digital attack involved agents ‘within the Democratic Party structure itself…’”

....After the DNC denied law enforcement access to its server, the FBI — under James Comey’s leadership — meekly agreed to accept the findings of CrowdStrike, the DNC’s private computer security firm, as to the server’s contents. This was in lieu of the FBI’s using legal process (such as a search warrant or forthwith grand jury subpoena) to seize and search the server for Russian malware and evidence of hacking.

Why did Comey and the FBI agree to such an impotent, absurd, and self-defeating arrangement?

Equally important, has anyone else other than CrowdStrike conducted a forensic examination of the DNC server, its contents, and the allegedly hacked emails? Specifically has Special Counsel Mueller done so?...

And so on

So for me it's not clear cut the russians were responsible for the dnc leak, there is political gain and mileage for the democrats though to claim that they were, partly due to trump in his campaign arguing for better relations with russia [something the neo cons and deep state oppose vehemently]

lastly, the the dnc leak would seem to be aimed at helping bernie's campaign for the nomination, could it be possible the person responsible for the leak may have been a bernie supporter?

 

[slotplayer]

Three coup d'etats going on.

The first is to remove the Donald.

The second is the 3 radicals, AOC, Talib and Omar to seize power of the House of Representatives from Pelosi.

The third is the white left progressives using every ID group to regain power, but little do they realize once that happens the ID groups will want power for themselves and kick them to the curve, hence the pig walking.

Good luck America.

 

[Steviedoo]

It's amazing how you slip sly insults into every post but there you go...

I found this article last night regarding the issue of russian hacking, from the american spectator website [i have no idea of the political leaning of said site etc] entitled:

"Mr. Mueller: Was the DNC Server Actually Hacked by the Russians?"

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

it's an easy to read article and very interesting, worth reading in its entirety, but here is an extract:

...the mainstream media have stubbornly clung to the Trump-Russia collusion narrative. And central to that the narrative is that the Trump campaign colluded with the Russians to hack the DNC email server.

But, in their coverage, the mainstream media have downplayed the very odd behavior of the DNC, the putative target of the alleged hack. For, when the Department of Homeland Security and the FBI learned of the hacking claim, they asked to examine the server.

And the DNC refused.

Why would the purported victim of a crime refuse to cooperate with law enforcement in solving that crime? Is it hiding something? Is it afraid the server’s contents will discredit the Russia-hacking story?

The answers to those questions began to emerge thanks to an

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

. By no means a pro-Trump publication, the Nation published an exhaustive report about an exacting forensic investigation of the DNC hack by the Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS), an organization of former CIA, FBI, National Security Agency, and military intelligence officers, technical experts, and analysts.

As reported by the Nation, VIPS has a well-established record of debunking questionable intelligence assessments that have been slanted to serve political purposes. For example, in the run-up to the invasion of Iraq, VIPS courageously and correctly challenged the accuracy and veracity of the CIA’s intelligence estimates that Saddam Hussein possessed weapons of mass destruction and that he posed a threat to the United States. Similarly, VIPS has condemned the use of “enhanced interrogation techniques” on suspected terrorists. In short, VIPS can hardly be described as either a right-wing cabal or as carrying water for the Republican Party.

In its analysis of the purported DNC hack, VIPS brought to bear the impressive talents of more than a dozen experienced, well-credentialed experts, including William Binney, a former NSA technical director and cofounder of the NSA’s Signals Intelligence Automation Research Center; Edward Loomis, former NSA technical director for the Office of Signals Processing; and Skip Folden, a former IBM information technology manager. As the French would say, these are l’hommes serieux, as are the other computer-system designers, program architects, and analysts with whom they investigated the Clinton-DNC hack story.

As set forth in the article, VIPS’ investigative findings were nothing short of stunning.

First, VIPS concluded that the DNC data were not hacked by the Russians or anyone else accessing the server over the internet. Instead, the data were downloaded by means of a thumb drive or similar portable storage device physically attached to the DNC server.

How was this determined? The time stamps contained in the released computer files’ metadata establish that, at 6:45 p.m. July 5, 2016, 1,976 megabytes (not megabits) of data were downloaded from the DNC’s server. This took 87 seconds, which means the transfer rate was 22.7 megabytes per second, a speed, according to VIPS, that “is much faster than what is physically possible with a hack.” Such a speed could be accomplished only by direct connection of a portable storage device to the server. Accordingly, VIPS concluded that the DNC data theft was an inside job by someone with physical access to the server.

....Moreover, for what it is worth, Julian Assange has repeatedly denied that Russia “or any state actor” was the source of the stolen DNC data published by WikiLeaks. And his denials have just received oblique partial confirmation in a

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

which features a lengthy and sympathetic portrayal of Christopher Steele.

Buried toward the end of the article comes the revelation that, on July 26, 2016 (four days after WikiLeaks published the DNC emails), “Steele filed yet another memo” in which “Steele’s sources claimed that the [DNC] digital attack involved agents ‘within the Democratic Party structure itself…’”

....After the DNC denied law enforcement access to its server, the FBI — under James Comey’s leadership — meekly agreed to accept the findings of CrowdStrike, the DNC’s private computer security firm, as to the server’s contents. This was in lieu of the FBI’s using legal process (such as a search warrant or forthwith grand jury subpoena) to seize and search the server for Russian malware and evidence of hacking.

Why did Comey and the FBI agree to such an impotent, absurd, and self-defeating arrangement?

Equally important, has anyone else other than CrowdStrike conducted a forensic examination of the DNC server, its contents, and the allegedly hacked emails? Specifically has Special Counsel Mueller done so?...

And so on

So for me it's not clear cut the russians were responsible for the dnc leak, there is political gain and mileage for the democrats though to claim that they were, partly due to trump in his campaign arguing for better relations with russia [something the neo cons and deep state oppose vehemently]

lastly, the the dnc leak would seem to be aimed at helping bernie's campaign for the nomination, could it be possible the person responsible for the leak may have been a bernie supporter?

That’s an insult? Come on...you seem to want to pick on every word I say...

 

[Steviedoo]

Three coup d'etats going on.

The first is to remove the Donald.

The second is the 3 radicals, AOC, Talib and Omar to seize power of the House of Representatives from Pelosi.

The third is the white left progressives using every ID group to regain power, but little do they realize once that happens the ID groups will want power for themselves and kick them to the curve, hence the pig walking.

Good luck America.

Oh brother. Give me a break.

 

[mack341]

That’s an insult? Come on...you seem to want to pick on every word I say...

I don't mind really - I'm not sat here massively offended by that dig, and it would be a boring forum if we were all the same, no I like feistiness - up to a point

 

[vorcirion]

Three coup d'etats going on.

The first is to remove the Donald.

The second is the 3 radicals, AOC, Talib and Omar to seize power of the House of Representatives from Pelosi.

The third is the white left progressives using every ID group to regain power, but little do they realize once that happens the ID groups will want power for themselves and kick them to the curve, hence the pig walking.

Good luck America.

umm...lol

 

[TheAddict]

.....

 

[slotplayer]

July 2017

 

[mack341]

Three coup d'etats going on.

The first is to remove the Donald.

The second is the 3 radicals, AOC, Talib and Omar to seize power of the House of Representatives from Pelosi.

The third is the white left progressives using every ID group to regain power, but little do they realize once that happens the ID groups will want power for themselves and kick them to the curve, hence the pig walking.

Good luck America.

I think there is something to these three points, but on the 2nd one how do you differentiate between radical democrats and the more middle of the road ones, because on trump they all seem to sing from the same hymn sheet? [they want him impeached], also all are more or less in favour of open borders are they not ?

Obviously the russiagate story has the potential to damage trump, hence the reluctance to drop it and move the debate back to policies...

Maybe more democrats will consider switching to the republicans if they disagree with the radicals and If trump was to soften some of his stances could some democrat voters be tempted over?

Also slotplayer on the third point, do you really feel the political parties [dem or rep] once elected obtain all the power or are they not held in check by the deep state which is the ultimate seat of power, the permanent unelected government?

 

[vorcirion]

sigh...right-wingers losing any kind of rationality. this is getting so ridiculous

 

[goatwack]

Right-Wingers brilliant

 

[slotplayer]

I think there is something to these three points, but on the 2nd one how do you differentiate between radical democrats and the more middle of the road ones, because on trump they all seem to sing from the same hymn sheet? [they want him impeached], also all are more or less in favour of open borders are they not ?

Obviously the russiagate story has the potential to damage trump, hence the reluctance to drop it and move the debate back to policies...

Maybe more democrats will consider switching to the republicans if they disagree with the radicals and If trump was to soften some of his stances could some democrat voters be tempted over?

Also slotplayer on the third point, do you really feel the political parties [dem or rep] once elected obtain all the power or are they not held in check by the deep state which is the ultimate seat of power, the permanent unelected government?

On the second, One by one the old guard is being replaced by more and more progressives. The radical Dems want equal outcomes but its equal opportunity not equal outcomes. Like I told someone the other day, we (people) all get the same 24 hours.

The third we saw an example in France, at the terminal protest, what did the guy say, (paraphrasing) France does not belong to the French.

 

[mack341]

On the second, One by one the old guard is being replaced by more and more progressives. The radical Dems want equal outcomes but its equal opportunity not equal outcomes. Like I told someone the other day, we (people) all get the same 24 hours.

The third we saw an example in France, at the terminal protest, what did the guy say, (paraphrasing) France does not belong to the French.

I understand what you mean re equal outcomes, it's not feasible or possible, but are the opportunities equal atm across the board, or if you're from a different background in a poor area do you think you might have to work longer and harder to achieve the same outcome as somebody from a more prosperous area?

 

[vorcirion]

Right-Wingers brilliant

alright fine. radical conspiracy theorists then who live in their own little fox-bubble.

 

[goatwack]

alright fine. radical conspiracy theorists then who live in their own little fox-bubble.

Thankyou. That's much better

 

[slotplayer]

I understand what you mean re equal outcomes, it's not feasible or possible, but are the opportunities equal atm across the board, or if you're from a different background in a poor area do you think you might have to work longer and harder to achieve the same outcome as somebody from a more prosperous area?

yes, you may have to work harder and longer. Do you know any siblings from the same prosperous family? How do their achievements compare?

 

[slotplayer]

alright fine. radical conspiracy theorists then who live in their own little fox-bubble.

its quite a few people

 

[Steviedoo]

lou dobbs...what a joke...at the very least post someone who is an actual journalist...far and few these days...

 

[slotplayer]

Lou and Stu @ CNN

 

[mack341]

Lou and Stu @ CNN

what a pair of dons, don't know how anyone can denigrate dobbsy, I thought he was british born for a while, so calm and considered rather than rash and reckless as a lot of tv presenters seem to be.

To me this russia hoax is embarrassing that a conspiracy theory could become the mainstream truth, a hack that revealed the machinations of the dnc against bernie, how does that really help trump beat hillary on the key issues?

After being on this planet a while and watched politicians and journalists for at least 30 years, and the technique and emphasis being placed on a story, my gut instinct tells me it's propagated bs.

If I opposed Trump, the only way to beat him would be to win the arguments, when trump's gone the issues he raised and campaigned on won't suddenly disappear, what he has spoken about has resonated with a large percentage of americans, so making up a story of russian collusion and obstruction doesn't win the underlying arguments, hillary's agenda was rejected by middle america is that gonna change in a year's time?

 

[vorcirion]

what a pair of dons, don't know how anyone can denigrate dobbsy, I thought he was british born for a while, so calm and considered rather than rash and reckless as a lot of tv presenters seem to be.

To me this russia hoax is embarrassing that a conspiracy theory could become the mainstream truth, a hack that revealed the machinations of the dnc against bernie, how does that really help trump beat hillary on the key issues?

After being on this planet a while and watched politicians and journalists for at least 30 years, and the technique and emphasis being placed on a story, my gut instinct tells me it's propagated bs.

If I opposed Trump, the only way to beat him would be to win the arguments, when trump's gone the issues he raised and campaigned on won't suddenly disappear, what he has spoken about has resonated with a large percentage of americans, so making up a story of russian collusion and obstruction doesn't win the underlying arguments, hillary's agenda was rejected by middle america is that gonna change in a year's time?

a) Russia issue was investigated and it's not a hoax. Russia was and is meddling in elections and US isn't doing anything to stop it.

b) Again it's not a made-up story. It was investigated and the results are: NO collusion, YES obstruction.

c) Hillary isn't anywhere! Only in Fox's and Slotplayer's dreams. There are 4356 democratic candidates and none of them is called Hillary Clinton.

 

[mack341]

a) Russia issue was investigated and it's not a hoax. Russia was and is meddling in elections and US isn't doing anything to stop it.

b) Again it's not a made-up story. It was investigated and the results are: NO collusion, YES obstruction.

c) Hillary isn't anywhere! Only in Fox's and Slotplayer's dreams. There are 4356 democratic candidates and none of them is called Hillary Clinton.

I said hillary's agenda was rejected are you saying the lead candidates like joe biden have different policy ideas to hillary?

I accept some anti hillary images and memes were posted online by russian nationals but that was likely the full extent of russian interference and as many many more were posted by americans it did not influence the outcome anymore than anti trump memes posted by a frenchman or mexican would've influenced the outcome.

We've had the same bs planted here re brexit, that russia was funding the leave campaign, it's establishment/elite bs because they don't like and cannot accept the 'populist' outcomes we've had in these two major democratic votes/elections.

The leaking of emails etc from the dnc could've been carried out by any number of different groups with an interest, the pro bernie lobby for one..., the fbi/cia/nsa [deep state] for another, in order to create a false russia narrative once they knew trump was likely to beat hillary, they needed a plan b to disparage him, and it's worked.

What do you think these spy people get up to all day, carry out actions and plans to protect their interests. They must've been sleeping on the job when the russians were carrying out this hacking??

Trump could still be a big let down to his base as he is in a weak position due to this russia hoax, it's hampered his ability to act freely in the whitehouse, he's still getting the usa involved in the middle east despite promising to get out of there. There doesn't seem to be any sign of a new healthcare system/reform. And now he'll likely be facing impeachment proceedings. I know the anti trumpsters will be cheering this...[btw I'm not a fully fledged trumpster but out of him and hillary, IMO on the basis of his campaign promises, not personal baggage, he was the better option ] edit: his style was also refreshing from the standard actor/puppet politician.

 

[vorcirion]

I said hillary's agenda was rejected are you saying the lead candidates like joe biden have different policy ideas to hillary?

I accept some anti hillary images and memes were posted online by russian nationals but that was likely the full extent of russian interference and as many many more were posted by americans it did not influence the outcome anymore than anti trump memes posted by a frenchman or mexican would've influenced the outcome.

We've had the same bs planted here re brexit, that russia was funding the leave campaign, it's establishment/elite bs because they don't like and cannot accept the 'populist' outcomes we've had in these two major democratic votes/elections.

The leaking of emails etc from the dnc could've been carried out by any number of different groups with an interest, the pro bernie lobby for one..., the fbi/cia/nsa [deep state] for another, in order to create a false russia narrative once they knew trump was likely to beat hillary, they needed a plan b to disparage him, and it's worked.

What do you think these spy people get up to all day, carry out actions and plans to protect their interests. They must've been sleeping on the job when the russians were carrying out this hacking??

Trump could still be a big let down to his base as he is in a weak position due to this russia hoax, it's hampered his ability to act freely in the whitehouse, he's still getting the usa involved in the middle east despite promising to get out of there. There doesn't seem to be any sign of a new healthcare system/reform. And now he'll likely be facing impeachment proceedings. I know the anti trumpsters will be cheering this...[btw I'm not a fully fledged trumpster but out of him and hillary, IMO on the basis of his campaign promises, not personal baggage, he was the better option ] edit: his style was also refreshing from the standard actor/puppet politician.

Trump is acting quite freely it seems with all these tariffs and declaring an emergency to sell weapons to Saudi Arabia. Kidnapping babies from their mothers, inspiring white nationalists to carry out more hate crimes. Sending love letters with Kim Jong-un (who executed officials after failed summit with Trump). And you want that insane, stupid criminal to act more freely? Are you a masochist or what?

And I don't want Trump impeached because there would be Pence giving him a pardon. I want Trump voted out and thrown to jail.

 

[mack341]

Trump is acting quite freely it seems with all these tariffs and declaring an emergency to sell weapons to Saudi Arabia. Kidnapping babies from their mothers, inspiring white nationalists to carry out more hate crimes. Sending love letters with Kim Jong-un (who executed officials after failed summit with Trump). And you want that insane, stupid criminal to act more freely? Are you a masochist or what?

And I don't want Trump impeached because there would be Pence giving him a pardon. I want Trump voted out and thrown to jail.

Ask yourself are the deep state/military complex etc. in favour of the arm sales to saudi arabia? If so, could it not be they have convinced Trump of the need to bypass congress? Is the US mainstream media, who despise trump, up in arms about it? I don't see much evidence of this as they tend to be pro war and pro intervention in the middle east.

I think the trade tariffs is something he has partially won the argument on within govt circles as long as it's limited, I believe atm it's 25%. If Trump had a free hand he would've probably set them to 30-50% to force china's hand quicker. It's a lukewarm trade war, and possibly part of the negotiating strategy re NK, to pressurise the chinese on disarmament of north korea in return for a trade settlement. [ the pressure being placed on huawei also comes to mind]

I was meaning a free hand on other issues too, including healthcare reform, withdrawal of troops from places like afghanistan, and the border wall. Three campaign promises/commitments that have not happened...

If you want trump voted out and the democrats to win, then they will need to win the policy arguments, the way they seem to be heading I can't see this happening but anything is possible I guess...

 

[Steviedoo]

what a pair of dons, don't know how anyone can denigrate dobbsy, I thought he was british born for a while, so calm and considered rather than rash and reckless as a lot of tv presenters seem to be.

To me this russia hoax is embarrassing that a conspiracy theory could become the mainstream truth, a hack that revealed the machinations of the dnc against bernie, how does that really help trump beat hillary on the key issues?

After being on this planet a while and watched politicians and journalists for at least 30 years, and the technique and emphasis being placed on a story, my gut instinct tells me it's propagated bs.

If I opposed Trump, the only way to beat him would be to win the arguments, when trump's gone the issues he raised and campaigned on won't suddenly disappear, what he has spoken about has resonated with a large percentage of americans, so making up a story of russian collusion and obstruction doesn't win the underlying arguments, hillary's agenda was rejected by middle america is that gonna change in a year's time?

Lou Dobbs is racist and mysogionistic,..so pretty sure only persons being denigrated here are women and people who are not white by Dobbsy.

 

[mack341]

Lou Dobbs is racist and mysogionistic,..so pretty sure only persons being denigrated here are women and people who are not white by Dobbsy.

that's a bit harsh, he doesn't seem to be an extremist?? are you saying he's on the same level as a klansmen or wife beater? or he's just a bit too conservative for your taste?

 

[slotplayer]

a) Russia issue was investigated and it's not a hoax. Russia was and is meddling in elections and US isn't doing anything to stop it.

b) Again it's not a made-up story. It was investigated and the results are: NO collusion, YES obstruction.

c) Hillary isn't anywhere! Only in Fox's and Slotplayer's dreams. There are 4356 democratic candidates and none of them is called Hillary Clinton.

The only obstruction I see is the cool-aid circulating your frontal lobe.

Mueller looks pretty shaky up there, did the deep state get to him?

What does Mueller say @ 2:21?

 

[Steviedoo]

that's a bit harsh, he doesn't seem to be an extremist?? are you saying he's on the same level as a klansmen or wife beater? or he's just a bit too conservative for your taste?

One doesn’t have to be any of those things to be mysogionistic or racist.

 

[Steviedoo]

The only obstruction I see is the cool-aid circulating your frontal lobe.

Mueller looks pretty shaky up there, did the deep state get to him?

What does Mueller say @ 2:21?

Let me ask you this...who is the deep state

 

[slotplayer]

that's a bit harsh, he doesn't seem to be an extremist?? are you saying he's on the same level as a klansmen or wife beater? or he's just a bit too conservative for your taste?

Lou Dobbs was opining about illegal immigration for years going back to the CNN days.

Published on Dec 13, 2006

 

[mack341]

One doesn’t have to be any of those things to be mysogionistic or racist.

so he's not on that level? don't you have some sort leeway for people of an older generation who grew up in different times; can you give an example when he has been racist or a women hater?

 

[slotplayer]

Let me ask you this...who is the deep state

The 30,000 lobbyists in DC.

 

[mack341]

Let me ask you this...who is the deep state

I thought you worked in the movie business?? have you not watched any of the bourne films for instance, written by robert ludlum. if we knew who they specifically were it wouldn't be much of a deep state, here's a definition provided by google:

"a body of people, typically influential members of government agencies or the military, believed to be involved in the secret manipulation or control of government policy."

 

[Steviedoo]

I thought you worked in the movie business?? have you not watched any of the bourne films for instance, written by robert ludlum. if we knew who they specifically were it wouldn't be much of a deep state, here's a definition provided by google:

"a body of people, typically influential members of government agencies or the military, believed to be involved in the secret manipulation or control of government policy."

Movies are not real...

 

[vorcirion]

The only obstruction I see is the cool-aid circulating your frontal lobe.

Mueller looks pretty shaky up there, did the deep state get to him?

What does Mueller say @ 2:21?

Hope you watched the whole video. If Trump wasn't the president...he'd be in court defending himself. Hopefully Giuliani as his lawyer.
Now go back to your safe space and watch some reruns of Hannity talking about Uranium 1, Clinton and other wet dreams of his.
And when your guy talks like you don't get to say anything really.

 

[slotplayer]

Hope you watched the whole video. If Trump wasn't the president...he'd be in court defending himself. Hopefully Giuliani as his lawyer.
Now go back to your safe space and watch some reruns of Hannity talking about Uranium 1, Clinton and other wet dreams of his.
And when your guy talks like you don't get to say anything really.

You know I think its time for a Hannity Rant.

 

[mack341]

Movies are not real...

so along with fiction books nothing in film or on a page has any connection to reality? so for example 'the west wing' is totally unrealistic and has nothing true about it??