North Korea and US politics

[geordiecolin]

no im not trying to point score, im saying from what I have seen of your contributions to this forum you generally like to do your research as this allows you to determine your opinion before you post. On this one I am genuinely surprised that you seem to just accept what others are shouting for without doing any due diligence on it.

The due dilligence you are expecting is for me to be able to cite American law and what parts of the law apply to what we are talking about.
All that I see in this thread is a blanket refusal to see that anything unlawful has been done to Trump that deserves investigating and possible prosecutions made. I doubt that even an American prosecutor would be able to cite a comprehensive list of charges at this point so how you expect me to have been able too using due dilligence is streaching reality way too far

 

[geordiecolin]

What evidence???? Where????

You didn't even bother to read the entire transcript of Priestaps notes. So again, what evidence?

Nobody is above the law. Any wrongdoing, prosecute according to the law.

Agreed.

I have no doubt that even you should now expect the evidence to be fully revealed over the coming weeks and months

 

[vorcirion]

Agreed.

I have no doubt that even you should now expect the evidence to be fully revealed over the coming weeks and months

So guess you believe in the rule of law etc...so what if Trump has done crimes. Should he go to jail in your opinion?

 

[geordiecolin]

So guess you believe in the rule of law etc...so what if Trump has done crimes. Should he go to jail in your opinion?

I think that my post/s stating that I am far from being a Trump supporter or an apologist for him must have been forgotten.
If he deserves it then he should face justice too. I believe he does deserve prosecuting. But maybe not for the reasons you may suspect.

 

[sufferinsilence]

The (sad, depending on which side you're on) part is that the news/opinion channels are aiding Trump again. All the free press he's getting for crying "OBAMAGATE" whilst he can't do any rally's is pure campaigning... and it's working.

 

[mack341]

what court case was dropped?

There is an entire fbi investigation On Russian interference that will give you the facts.
But you want to bring it down to just a couple of anti Hilary memes go ahead.

The Justice Department is abandoning plans for a looming criminal trial focused on claims of Russian interference in the 2016 U.S. presidential election.

With jury selection set to begin in just over two weeks, prosecutors asked a federal judge to permanently dismiss the charges special counsel Robert Mueller brought two years ago against two Russian firms linked to a St. Petersburg businessman known as Putin's chef, Yevgeny Prigozhin.

 

[mack341]

Nobody bugged Mr T's staff. What kind of nonsense are you talking about.

This is just getting hilarious, are you that desperate to repeat Mr T's lies?

perhaps I ought to have used the word 'team' members of etc... carter page, papadopoulos etc..

This is a reasonable summary of the situation by lindsey graham, describing the actions as 'unethical' and chilling that an outgoing administration did this, the unmasking discussion starts at 1.28.

I don't like or trust Brian Kilmeade though.

 

[cncas2123]

perhaps I ought to have used the word 'team' members of etc... carter page, papadopoulos etc..

This is a reasonable summary of the situation by lindsey graham, describing the actions as 'unethical' and chilling that an outgoing administration did this, the unmasking discussion starts at 1.28.

I don't like or trust Brian Kilmeade though.

Sure, its not like Lindsey Graham is a Trump lapdog....... he is so far in Trumps corner that its not even funny. I lost all respect for Lindsey Graham when he basically ignored Trumps continued attacks on John McCain, supposedly a good friend of Grahams.
At least Senator McCain had the principles to ignore partisan politics and call Trump out for what he really is. He was definitely one of the few Senator's who stuck to his principles and did what he thought was best for the American people.

 

[cncas2123]

perhaps I ought to have used the word 'team' members of etc... carter page, papadopoulos etc..

This is a reasonable summary of the situation by lindsey graham, describing the actions as 'unethical' and chilling that an outgoing administration did this, the unmasking discussion starts at 1.28.

I don't like or trust Brian Kilmeade though.

Are these the same " team " members that have been imprisoned for their interactions with russians with a view to election interference?

 

[mack341]

Are these the same " team " members that have been imprisoned for their interactions with russians with a view to election interference?

[from the hill website]

"However, Horowitz found that the FBI never had any real evidence against Page before beginning its investigation, codenamed Operation Crossfire Hurricane. Soon after the investigation was opened, it became clear that Page had been wrongly accused and was, in fact, working for the CIA, not the Russians.

Despite warnings about the credibility of Steele and red flags over the unreliability of the dossier, Horowitz found that “FBI leadership” used the dossier to justify its application for a FISA warrant. Democratic members of Congress and a wide array of media outlets have long told the public that the dossier was just one part of the FISA application. That is false. Horowitz states that the dossier played the “central and essential role” in securing the secret surveillance of the Trump campaign, including four investigations with both electronic surveillance and undercover assets.

The official in charge of FISA applications, Kevin Clinesmith, was told to ask the CIA again about whether Page had been working for the agency. He was again told that Page in fact was, yet Clinesmith allegedly changed the CIA response to describe Page as not working for it.

Investigators also found an array of messages against Trump on the social media accounts of Clinesmith, including one declaring “vive le resistance” after Trump won"

 

[Kroffe]

[from the hill website]

"However, Horowitz found that the FBI never had any real evidence against Page before beginning its investigation, codenamed Operation Crossfire Hurricane. Soon after the investigation was opened, it became clear that Page had been wrongly accused and was, in fact, working for the CIA, not the Russians.

Despite warnings about the credibility of Steele and red flags over the unreliability of the dossier, Horowitz found that “FBI leadership” used the dossier to justify its application for a FISA warrant. Democratic members of Congress and a wide array of media outlets have long told the public that the dossier was just one part of the FISA application. That is false. Horowitz states that the dossier played the “central and essential role” in securing the secret surveillance of the Trump campaign, including four investigations with both electronic surveillance and undercover assets.

The official in charge of FISA applications, Kevin Clinesmith, was told to ask the CIA again about whether Page had been working for the agency. He was again told that Page in fact was, yet Clinesmith allegedly changed the CIA response to describe Page as not working for it.

Investigators also found an array of messages against Trump on the social media accounts of Clinesmith, including one declaring “vive le resistance” after Trump won"

Thats a pretty badass codename for the operation tho.

 

[cncas2123]

[from the hill website]

"However, Horowitz found that the FBI never had any real evidence against Page before beginning its investigation, codenamed Operation Crossfire Hurricane. Soon after the investigation was opened, it became clear that Page had been wrongly accused and was, in fact, working for the CIA, not the Russians.

Despite warnings about the credibility of Steele and red flags over the unreliability of the dossier, Horowitz found that “FBI leadership” used the dossier to justify its application for a FISA warrant. Democratic members of Congress and a wide array of media outlets have long told the public that the dossier was just one part of the FISA application. That is false. Horowitz states that the dossier played the “central and essential role” in securing the secret surveillance of the Trump campaign, including four investigations with both electronic surveillance and undercover assets.

The official in charge of FISA applications, Kevin Clinesmith, was told to ask the CIA again about whether Page had been working for the agency. He was again told that Page in fact was, yet Clinesmith allegedly changed the CIA response to describe Page as not working for it.

Investigators also found an array of messages against Trump on the social media accounts of Clinesmith, including one declaring “vive le resistance” after Trump won"

Okey dokey, so Papadopoulos that you mention isnt the one that was sent to prison?

 

[cncas2123]

Maybe I am thinking of the wrong Papadopoulos???

George Demetrios Papadopoulos

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(

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;

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born August 19, 1987) is a former member of the foreign policy advisory panel to

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's

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. On October 5, 2017, Papadopoulos

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guilty to

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to

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agents about the timing and the possible significance of his contacts in 2016 relating to

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and the Donald Trump presidential campaign. He served twelve days in

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, then was placed on a 12-month

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.

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During his supervised release from prison he participated in the filming of a still-unreleased docuseries.

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In March 2019, Papadopoulos released his book, Deep State Target: How I Got Caught in the Crosshairs of the Plot to Bring Down President Trump.

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He ran in the March 2020 special election to replace Rep.

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in the

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, after Hill resigned,

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but lost, receiving 2.3% of the vote.

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[mack341]

Okey dokey, so Papadopoulos that you mention isnt the one that was sent to prison?

I'm sure he is a free man as I saw him interviewed on TV when the mueller hearing happened, but I'll have to look him up, it's hard having to rely on wikipedia due to its liberal/left bias.

If you watched that fox interview with graham, they showed many clips of what looks to me like lying at worst or evasive answers at best, from all sorts of officials in front of congress committees, I doubt they'll be arrested. Roger stone was jailed for lying to congress I believe, so a clear double standard is in operation.

 

[sufferinsilence]

 

[Kroffe]

Think he only served two weeks or something like that.

 

[sufferinsilence]

I'm sure he is a free man as I saw him interviewed on TV when the mueller hearing happened, but I'll have to look him up, it's hard having to rely on wikipedia due to its liberal/left bias.

Oh Mack...

 

[Kroffe]

Watch this fox news video.
and in the next breath "wikipedia is biased".


Come on now.

 

[mack341]

Maybe I am thinking of the wrong Papadopoulos???

George Demetrios Papadopoulos

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(

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;

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born August 19, 1987) is a former member of the foreign policy advisory panel to

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's

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. On October 5, 2017, Papadopoulos

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guilty to

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to

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agents about the timing and the possible significance of his contacts in 2016 relating to

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and the Donald Trump presidential campaign. He served twelve days in

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, then was placed on a 12-month

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.

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During his supervised release from prison he participated in the filming of a still-unreleased docuseries.

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In March 2019, Papadopoulos released his book, Deep State Target: How I Got Caught in the Crosshairs of the Plot to Bring Down President Trump.

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He ran in the March 2020 special election to replace Rep.

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in the

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, after Hill resigned,

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but lost, receiving 2.3% of the vote.

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He can't have done that much, a 12 day jail term is not a lot in the US, was he jailed for any wrongdoing that triggered the spying/surveillance?

 

[mack341]

Watch this fox news video.
and in the next breath "wikipedia is biased".


Come on now.

You've missed my point of having to rely on it, you don't have to rely on fox news, there are plenty of alternatives, can you suggest one to wikipedia?

 

[sufferinsilence]

He can't done that much, a 12 day jail term is not much in the US, was he jailed for any wrongdoing that triggered the spying/surveillance?

He lied in a federal investigation. Usually when you plead guilty you get a reduced sentence, if you take the chance to go to court you might get off scot-free but usually those that take the plea know they're guilty.

 

[Kroffe]

You've missed my point of having to rely on it, you don't have to rely on fox news, there are plenty of alternatives, can you suggest one to wikipedia?

Wikipedia usually lists sources, no?

And when searching for something, its not like wikipedia is the only thing among the search results?

 

[cncas2123]

He can't have done that much, a 12 day jail term is not a lot in the US, was he jailed for any wrongdoing that triggered the spying/surveillance?

He can’t have done that much? He broke the law, has that part passed you by? Seriously if he was part of the Biden team would you still say that he can’t have done that much?

 

[mack341]

Oh Mack...

I've had to read a few of their pages tonight, it's awful the liberal bias is so obvious. Every political topic it's the same. The science pages are okay and some of the history.

I'll still quote and research from there as it's convenient, but it's laughable in terms of what the world should have to rely on.

 

[Steviedoo]

How afraid are the Republicans of Joe Biden's run for president? Look at the what they are doing....

1. Accuse Biden of Ukraine interference while the President was being impeached for the ukraine wrongdoing.
this one didn't stick.

2. Accuse him of sexual assault. Cue Tara Reid.
this one didn't stick either, it just highlights the 26 accusations against Trump. and we have him on that famous tape saying this is what he does because he just can....and there are ongoing court cases...so this is not gonna work.

3. Start rumours that Biden has dementia
this one didn't stick either because we will see how well Biden will do during the debates. of course Trump has already stated that he will not take part cuz they are rigged.

4. and finally Obamagate
Something that no one can tell us what the real crime was here.....but let's get everyone going and spend tax payer money....and let's drop charges....

What's next?

 

[geordiecolin]

So it seems.

Comey had no evidence trump was conspiring with russia.
Obama Biden and Comey knew the Steele dossier was false.
Obama suggested witholding information from trump.
The FBI had spied on trumps campaign.
FBI agents appeared to have an extreme bias against trump.
FISA warrants had been extremely missmanaged.
The FBI bullied Flynn by threatening his son.
The FBI went back on the plea deal offered to Flynn.
Flynn had not committed a crime and there was no reason for the investigation.
Obama was aware of all of the above.
Everyone in the media lied about trumps connection to Russia.


So.Obama sabotaged the trump administration as it came into office which i believe is unconstitutional.
The russian conspiracy was known to be false but was promoted anyhoo.
The FBI appeared to want to stop Trump becoming top banana.
Trump was correct about spying Flynn Comey The Russia witch hunt and the FBI's colussion.
Probably Obama's full knowledge and participation.

 

[cncas2123]

So it seems.

Comey had no evidence trump was conspiring with russia.
Obama Biden and Comey knew the Steele dossier was false.
Obama suggested witholding information from trump.
The FBI had spied on trumps campaign.
FBI agents appeared to have an extreme bias against trump.
FISA warrants had been extremely missmanaged.
The FBI bullied Flynn by threatening his son.
The FBI went back on the plea deal offered to Flynn.
Flynn had not committed a crime and there was no reason for the investigation.
Obama was aware of all of the above.
Everyone in the media lied about trumps connection to Russia.


So.Obama sabotaged the trump administration as it came into office which i believe is unconstitutional.
The russian conspiracy was known to be false but was promoted anyhoo.
The FBI appeared to want to stop Trump becoming top banana.
Trump was correct about spying Flynn Comey The Russia witch hunt and the FBI's colussion.
Probably Obama's full knowledge and participation.

Seriously ? Where’s the source for this?

 

[geordiecolin]

Seriously ? Where’s the source for this?

You will not find it in CNN or NY times.

 

[mack341]

He can’t have done that much? He broke the law, has that part passed you by? Seriously if he was part of the Biden team would you still say that he can’t have done that much?

Are you telling me bill or hillary clinton never did anything worse than papadopo, or george bush, blair etc... they haven't spent one night in jail. Why can't you just accept whatever he did must have been minor, 12 days

The man who lied to the fisa court hasn't been jailed yet either, it's all bias BS.

 

[vorcirion]

So it seems.

Comey had no evidence trump was conspiring with russia.
Obama Biden and Comey knew the Steele dossier was false.
Obama suggested witholding information from trump.
The FBI had spied on trumps campaign.
FBI agents appeared to have an extreme bias against trump.
FISA warrants had been extremely missmanaged.
The FBI bullied Flynn by threatening his son.
The FBI went back on the plea deal offered to Flynn.
Flynn had not committed a crime and there was no reason for the investigation.
Obama was aware of all of the above.
Everyone in the media lied about trumps connection to Russia.


So.Obama sabotaged the trump administration as it came into office which i believe is unconstitutional.
The russian conspiracy was known to be false but was promoted anyhoo.
The FBI appeared to want to stop Trump becoming top banana.
Trump was correct about spying Flynn Comey The Russia witch hunt and the FBI's colussion.
Probably Obama's full knowledge and participation.

Took a nap and saw some exciting dreams?

 

[cncas2123]

Are you telling me bill or hillary clinton never did anything worse than papadopo, or george bush, blair etc... they haven't spent one night in jail. Why can't you just accept whatever he did must have been minor, 12 days

The man who lied to the fisa court hasn't been jailed yet either, it's all bias BS.

So what you are saying is that it’s ok for someone to break the law if he works from Trump?

 

[cncas2123]

You will not find it in CNN or NY times.

I didn’t ask where I wouldn’t find it, I asked for the source.

 

[sufferinsilence]

I didn’t ask where I wouldn’t find it, I asked for the source.

I second this, these are some serious allegations and conclusions so I'm very interested in what the source is for this.

 

[mack341]

How afraid are the Republicans of Joe Biden's run for president? Look at the what they are doing....

1. Accuse Biden of Ukraine interference while the President was being impeached for the ukraine wrongdoing.
this one didn't stick.

2. Accuse him of sexual assault. Cue Tara Reid.
this one didn't stick either, it just highlights the 26 accusations against Trump. and we have him on that famous tape saying this is what he does because he just can....and there are ongoing court cases...so this is not gonna work.

3. Start rumours that Biden has dementia
this one didn't stick either because we will see how well Biden will do during the debates. of course Trump has already stated that he will not take part cuz they are rigged.

4. and finally Obamagate
Something that no one can tell us what the real crime was here.....but let's get everyone going and spend tax payer money....and let's drop charges....

What's next?

I don't think obamagate should be used to bash biden if it is, but maybe the democrat leadership and allies in the media would prefer somebody other than Joe to run, msnbc's Mika Brzezinski gave biden a real hard time over the reade allegations the other week.

 

[Kroffe]

Heating up now. :

 

[cncas2123]

I don't think obamagate should be used to bash biden if it is, but maybe the democrat leadership and allies in the media would prefer somebody other than Joe to run, msnbc's Mika Brzezinski gave biden a real hard time over the reade allegations the other week.

What exactly is Obamagate apart from a Trump sound byte?

 

[sufferinsilence]

I don't think obamagate should be used to bash biden if it is, but maybe the democrat leadership and allies in the media would prefer somebody other than Joe to run, msnbc's Mika Brzezinski gave biden a real hard time over the reade allegations the other week.

What? MSDNC giving a Democrat a hard time? Wow...

 

[geordiecolin]

I didn’t ask where I wouldn’t find it, I asked for the source.

Sources. It is called research

 

[Kroffe]

Crap, theres a mod in the thread!!
Scatter!!

 

[sufferinsilence]

Crap, theres a mod in the thread!!
Scatter!!

View attachment 131413

Scatter? I never get scatters...

 

[cncas2123]

Heating up now. :

I wouldn’t say that...... just waiting patiently for the independent verifiable source that proves Saint Donald has never erred and that nasty Obama is the cause of all America’s ills.....

 

[sufferinsilence]

Sources. It is called research

That's not how it works. If you researched this yourself and someone asks for sources what's the problem with providing them? If you read this on a website just give a link to the article.

 

[mack341]

So what you are saying is that it’s ok for someone to break the law if he works from Trump?

No, but have you never heard of the phrase 'trumped up charges' [no pun intended] or being fitted up, the deepstate had to get these people on some charge but it was never the thing they were being spyed on for in the first place, funny that.

 

[sufferinsilence]

I wouldn’t say that...... just waiting patiently for the independent verifiable source that proves Saint Donald has never erred and that nasty Obama is the cause of all America’s ills.....

Independent non-partisan

 

[cncas2123]

Sources. It is called research

Ok so you can research all of that but can’t research what they should all be charged with?

 

[dionysus]

Crap, theres a mod in the thread!!
Scatter!!

View attachment 131413

(if you arent a cartoon nerd, the team leader always says 'scatter'

 

[geordiecolin]

That's not how it works. If you researched this yourself and someone asks for sources what's the problem with providing them? If you read this on a website just give a link to the article.

It is there for you to question. That is how debate works.

 

[cncas2123]

No, but have you never heard of the phrase 'trumped up charges' [no pun intended] or being fitted up, the deepstate had to get these people on some charge but it was never the thing they were being spyed on for in the first place, funny that.

He pleaded guilty to get a lesser sentence . So a trumped up charge and he wants to have a criminal record rather than fight it, that makes sense......

 

[geordiecolin]

Ok so you can research all of that but can’t research what they should all be charged with?

Did you not fully understand my last comment on that matter?
I shall explain further.
You asked me to answer a totally unanswerable question. That is because there needs to be questions asked first. Then investigations. Once they are concluded a team of people will consider what charges if any need to come to bare.
Asking me to produce what charges and to whom is utterly rediculous because conversations that stem from it would be based on pure speculation on the speculated charges.
Result? Wasted endless time arguing about charges that are pure speculation that will go round and round.
I have better things to do than be camped out in here all day arguing about what is just speculation.
Do you understand that?

 

[dionysus]

It is there for you to question. That is how debate works.

um, that's kind of the opposite of how debate works; when you make a claim or assertion the onus lies on the person making the claim to back it up, not the other party to research it

otherwise, it's an argument or discussion, not a debate

just sayin'