NoLimitCity doesn't seem to follow UKGC -laws (not sure if MGA has the same laws)

Gaz237

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@Gaz237 or @trancemonkey do you know where I can get a confirmation on this (there is no rule for symbols landing outside of the screen)? As I said earlier, it isn't outside of the screen if you see eg. half of the symbol - do you disagree with this? say you get two scatters on Tombstone, you wait awhile and the wheel spins longer only to drop the last scatter below the 'in-play-area' - this happens WAY too often to be deemed 'natural position of the reel'. Shouldn't the law prevent such 'luring' ?

**EDIT**

I don't see why the thread is pointless. For one thing, it creates discussion - which is why discussion forums exist.

How is it possible to confirm a rule that dose not exist?.

The only place it exists, is in your head.
 

manttih

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@Gaz237 - if the rules state:

S implementation guidance 7C
c. Games may not falsely display near-miss results, that is, the event may not substitute one losing outcome with a different losing outcome.


Where does it say 'there is no rule for symbols landing outside of the screen' - Do you claim the partly visible symbols are outside of screen?
 

Halvor

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@Halvor - where do you work, MGA or a provider? Do you disagree what I have told? Either way, you should know the answer to my original question, yet you tried to dismiss me with a secondary argument first (casino)?
I work for a game provider, no I do not work for NLC and no I do not work with compliance so I can not definitely tell you whats stated in the regulations or not. And I most certainly will not go through the MGA page on your behalf, it's as easily accessible for you as it is for me. And my personal views on the matter is irrelevant for your accusations of wrong-doing.

You started this thread with referring to regulations that are in no way, shape or form applicable for the casino in question nor for you as a player not regulated by the UKGC. As you are the one claiming foul play the burden of proof also fall on you.
 

Gaz237

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@Gaz237 - if the rules state:

S implementation guidance 7C
c. Games may not falsely display near-miss results, that is, the event may not substitute one losing outcome with a different losing outcome.


Where does it say 'there is no rule for symbols landing outside of the screen' - Do you claim the partly visible symbols are outside of screen?

Yes they are out of the screen, matters not weather it's a scatter or any other symbol.

You just have a beef, because you have done your nutsack on Tombstone again.
 

manttih

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@Halvor - I will go trough the pages, no problem there . But you were the one saying you 'work in the industy', thus I thought you might know this :)

@Gaz237, emphasis on the word again . I will also contact UKGC to see their view on this - though I havent really played on their sites...

However, if what you have said is true. Practically it means you can have a game like this:

- 5 reels, each containing one Jackpot symbol, reels are partly visible up and down
- Jackpot is, say 1000 000e (for 5 jp-symbols)
- every spin spats the five jackpot symbols just outside of play, causing the player to punch trough the screen

if there isn't a law against this, one can think if this is moral or not (not a question, just a remark) - certainly not 'responsible gaming'.
 

Halvor

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@Halvor - I will go trough the pages, no problem there . But you were the one saying you 'work in the industy', thus I thought you might know this :)
I can tell you this much, there's no mentioning of near misses for the MGA certification scope. Simply put it does not seem to be a test requirement.
 

interlog

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and so what if I do? Isn't that the whole point of discussion forums? If it wasn't for casinomeister, Bonanzas (still!) biggest win wouldn't have been reveiled as 'fraud'

Care to point me out where it was shown to be a fraud? Must have missed that......
 

manttih

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@interlog , the bonanza 14 000xbet on Bonanza thread? I was under the impression it was uploaded by BTG themselves (which is why everyone jokes about the junior assistant :) )

(also, note the quotation marks around 'fraud' as I couldn't find a better term for this)
 

interlog

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@interlog , the bonanza 14 000xbet on Bonanza thread? I was under the impression it was uploaded by BTG themselves (which is why everyone jokes about the junior assistant :) )

Nope, not the case at all...... that incident you describe refers to a member of their staff posting a big win screenshot on another one of their releases - Dragon Born - in a competition topic here. That was years ago by the way.
 

Gaz237

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@Gaz237, emphasis on the word again . I will also contact UKGC to see their view on this - though I havent really played on their sites...

However, if what you have said is true. Practically it means you can have a game like this:

- 5 reels, each containing one Jackpot symbol, reels are partly visible up and down
- Jackpot is, say 1000 000e (for 5 jp-symbols)
- every spin spats the five jackpot symbols just outside of play, causing the player to punch trough the screen

if there isn't a law against this, one can think if this is moral or not (not a question, just a remark) - certainly not 'responsible gaming'.
[/QUOTE]

But they don't land every spin, so that blows your theory out the window.
 

manttih

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@interlog , ok its' been awhile since I read that story , sorry if I have misunderstood :) I was quite sure I saw that story on Bonanza thread ...
 

manttih

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@Gaz237, no they don't . But if it doesn't matter whats outside of play, then it could be done like this :)
You can test Tombstone yourself - just watch outside of play when you get 1-2 scatters (or badges for that matter). They are visible WAY too often to be natural (practically 90% of the time),

I tried to find UKGC casino where I could test Tombstone on demo play (it seems to be available in quite a lot of them). So, if the game is not different on UKGC and MGA casinos, I'll contact UKGC for their input on the matter. Also would be nice to hear @NolimitCity - Pelle 's opinion on the matter.
 

colinsunderland

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To be fair, Nick from BTG did state a while back that it is against the technical standards to have symbols constantly drop 'one off' a win. It was when we were discussing the HTML5 conversion of Dead or Alive, as it would constantly show scatters one above the pay window, he said he didn't know how they managed to get away with it, but they certainly wouldn't be allowed to do it on their games.
 

bamberfishcake

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Not a clue if what is happening s against the law.

I don't have the time at the minute to look into it, I've been round the in-laws and my brain is fried.

Fair enough for someone to raise a point like it has been for open discussion. Not every question needs to be defended so brutally or shot down in flames.

Please don't go changing No Limit City though. Most of my fun has been on their slots.

Been an interesting read, pass the popcorn :)
 

Buffalo Bill

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As much as i think slots should adhere to the rules and regulations of the governing bodies who control them, i wonder how much experience playing slots some people in this thread actually have.
I have never played a slot that doesn't do this, from shoving all my pocket money into awp's at 5 years old to the present day.
While I admit if the near misses occur every other spin it gets ridiculous, I think that without near misses at all then immersion in a slot will almost certainly be lost.
 

The Viking

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well had hundreds of near misses just in the last week or so :) must be rigged right :rolleyes:
thats what keeps your adrenalin pumped and games exiting, when that 3rd scattter just misses but hey it lands next time :)
what do people want not seeing any scatters at all unless you get all 3,4,5 or 6 for that matter ??
 

chiya

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If my understanding is correct, symbols that are not in view (I.e above or below the reels) are not included in this rule.

tbh most of this thread goes over my head but .. why not? If a game is specifically designated in such a way where you can see like half of the symbol that is just coming or just missed wouldn't that be counted for displaying a near-miss result? Is there any reason for a game to even show what was the "next symbol"?
 

manttih

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@Buffalo Bill - been playing online casinos for over 10 years. In the good old days, games such as Fruit Case / Kings of Chicago wouldn't do stuff like this and thus felt more honest - not to mention the fact that the scatters were WAY more frequent, often producing WAY more bigger wins than these so called 'high-potential' games (still havent seen anything close to 2000xbet on Tombstone or any megaways, which was quite 'frequent' on Kings of Chicago with straight flush) :). Once, I went 400 spins on Fruit Case without scatters and thought the game was broken - compare that to megaways, where scatters each 400 spins would be considered lucky (though, they still probably wouldn't give you anything near 1000xbet)!

@The Viking : near misses aren't bad per sé. It's the fact they happen way too often to be 'natural', thus luring people to keep on playing. And as I've already stated, @chiya makes the exact same point I did earlier on this thread: no one cares if you miss some base game win, the scatters are the ones people play these new games for.
 

lewisnadasurf

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Unsure what the issue is here. This has been going on for ages.

for example if you quick spin DOA1 you see the 5 scatters if you watch the reels.

it’s just part of the game and to lure you in. I think it’s stretching it to say this is tilting.

just Go in to a session with mindset of whatever is on the reels, is the hand you’ve been dealt. Don’t worry about the teases or the near misses. It’s that spin and those 15 symbols
 

manttih

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@lewisnadasurf , the issue has nothing to do with 'mindset' of a certain player :) Tilting is in each player's head. eg. Would you tilt if you get 50 GOLs in a row without D? You might not, but some other player might. The same applies on this game. If you play, say a hundred spins, getting 2 scatters 10 times, with the last one just below the 'play-area'. Some might deem it 'fun and exciting', while other players might not (while in basegame, you are lucky to get a win over 2xbet in 50 spins). I would believe that is exactly what the law is for - to prevent players from tilting.

Haven't been able to locate the MGA rules yet.
 

curremon

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@ChopleyIOM , I am using the developer tools on Firefox (F12). I search the different settings which update on each spin. Manual work, but can be done if one is persistent :)

@Gaz237 it doesnt matter if scatters are 'bigger' or not, if they are one reel position away, it is not natural and the law above should prevent this. I think you quite missed my point. @trancemonkey kindly gave me the laws by which the games should operate. If this one 'insignificant' law isn't followed and it's gone trough 'several audits by third party testers', then god only knows what other laws arent followed (compensation, bet size etc. etc.)

EDIT

@Gaz237 ... and so what if I do? Isn't that the whole point of discussion forums? If it wasn't for casinomeister, Bonanzas (still!) biggest win wouldn't have been reveiled as 'fraud'

Biggest win fraud ? What have i missed ?
 

lewisnadasurf

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@lewisnadasurf , the issue has nothing to do with 'mindset' of a certain player :) Tilting is in each player's head. eg. Would you tilt if you get 50 GOLs in a row without D? You might not, but some other player might. The same applies on this game. If you play, say a hundred spins, getting 2 scatters 10 times, with the last one just below the 'play-area'. Some might deem it 'fun and exciting', while other players might not (while in basegame, you are lucky to get a win over 2xbet in 50 spins). I would believe that is exactly what the law is for - to prevent players from tilting.

Haven't been able to locate the MGA rules yet.

Ok I understand. Tbh I didn’t know the rule existed. And I would be lying if I said I hadn’t been frustrated by 20 straight teases on any game.. but that’s the nature of gambling IMO.

They may as well take away any game which teases without a bonus then?

like having 2 books on book of dead, it slows down, it seems exciting. But it misses, sometimes close sometimes far.

do you just want a generic slot which either gives bonus or doesn’t?
 

geordiecolin

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@lewisnadasurf , the issue has nothing to do with 'mindset' of a certain player :) Tilting is in each player's head. eg. Would you tilt if you get 50 GOLs in a row without D? You might not, but some other player might. The same applies on this game. If you play, say a hundred spins, getting 2 scatters 10 times, with the last one just below the 'play-area'. Some might deem it 'fun and exciting', while other players might not (while in basegame, you are lucky to get a win over 2xbet in 50 spins). I would believe that is exactly what the law is for - to prevent players from tilting.

Haven't been able to locate the MGA rules yet.
Most of the bigger gaming providers employ Psychologists as far as I understand it. Their roll is to highlight how best to catch the attention of a play to their slot as well as how to keep them playing the game for as long as possible as well as to have them come back to the slot again and again.
I would presume that the best place to look during any audit of a slot and the potential harm it could cause would be by looking at the Psychologists recommendations? (see the UKGC's diktats on Jack and the beanstalk etc)
But then again judging by the monumental fuck ups that those at the UKGC have made over recent years they are probably not that smart
 

manttih

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@lewisnadasurf , and I havent' yet figured out if the rule is on MGA casinos where I often play - so I am , at the moment talking just about the UKGC laws (provided the game is identical on these casinos).

Book of Dead doesn't strike me as such, in my opinion it is ok to have 'excitement' in getting the third scatter. Especially as the last scatter isn't 'always' one reel position away.

And what people have seem to forgotten on the original post:

There seems to be a variable stating NearWinBigReels and nearWinReels as shown on this attachment:

There are no sounds / effects on this game if a win is 'near', so as far as I see, there is no need for this variable, other than moving the reel to 'near win' position.
 
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