MY Proof that OnLine Casino's Don't Cheat.

[love2winalot]

Hiya: Like the topic says, this is "MY" Proof, as it releates to me. A Nobody....................I have no web site, am not an affiliate, am not associated with any Casino, or staff, ect ect ect.

Background: Has established that I am not going away. Has made deposits between $500-$1000. Is currently way ahead profit wise. Has lost my bankroll 2 times within 10 months. Has established, that if bankroll is lost, or drops below, $300, that i will re-deposit. Has never taken a bonus. Plays Roulette most of the time, and Sic Bo sometimes.

So, If they wanted to cheat me, I AM THE PERFECT TARGET. I mean, outside of a Whale, i am pretty much as good as it gets from the Casino point of view. So, What has happened?

Casino: This Winalot jerk is killing us, make him lose so we can recoup our $.
Winalot: I think i will bet these numbers, according to my method of play.
Casino: Look, he is betting the same numbers. Just make him continue to miss
Winalot: Wow, This is my last bet on these numbers, as i am almost broke.
Casino: Yea, just one more miss baby. WTF? What happened? I told you to make him lose, not Win on his last bet? YOUR FIRED.......hehehehe

This has happened 2 times in just the last 3 days. I have a $1530 withdraw pending. If i would have actually lost, i would have canceled the withdraw, or if to late, i would have deposited $1000 again. Just as i have before.

I know this. The Casino knows this. Everyone knows this. So why has not the cheating Online Casinos forced me to lose? I mean, all it would have taken is ONE lousy spin to be manipulated, and there you go.

imhop, poor bet selection, and or poor money management, and or, just plain bad luck, is what causes us to lose a lot of money sometimes, and not the Casino cheating us.

 

[slotheadlizard]

Proof

Congrats on your win, and smart money management over the past months . However your example does not definitively prove that Online casinos don't cheat, it simply proves you have won against the odds on a couple of occasions.

I'm not arguing that they do cheat, BTW.

 

[lukejunior]

online casinos don't "cheat" certainly not the better know gaming softwares but they are designed to make you lose with odd losing streaks on roulette blackjack or craps

 

[love2winalot]

Odd Losing streaks? Sometimes it seems that way. Buuuuuuuuut, i actually go to all the trouble of tracking what hits in Roulette, sic bo, ect.

Here are some sample Records, and where they happened at.

Same color hitting in a row= 18, at Flamingo in vegas. Most on line was 16.
3 numbers not hitting at all=116 at Binions in vegas.
1 number not hitting at all=346 from zuma tester book. 314 from online.
same dozen not hitting in a row=25 online, and 24 at Wynn in vegas.
No Triple in Sic Bo=272 in a row online, and 288 at station casino in vegas.
and so on.

MY expierience of recorded data also shows that the smaller streaks do not happen any more often than they do in a real Casino also. Of note, is the longer you play, the closer you get to the actual odd's that the game dictates. I once lost 47 hands of BJ, while only winning 14, and splitting 12. However, by adding in the session before, and the session after this, i was at %46.5 of hands won.

Here are some more records of mine just for info:
different numbers in a row without a repeat=25
same 2 numbers hitting in a row=7
most spins until 1 number will hit at least 6 times=111
most hands in 3 card poker in a row with no pair+,=17
most hands lost/split in a row in normal BJ=14

Dieviating from normal Varience is part of the game. This is usually the part that kills the player. By NOT chasing bets when the game is doing this, is the key to staying in the game.

This do not prove that Casino's do not, or could not cheat you if they wanted to. All i can say is that they have not cheated me.

 

[harryvoi]

Hallo, i respect your opinion that online casinos dont cheat. It seems that you have a very good record on roulette. If its not bothering you ,can you tell us aproximetally how much you have won at roulette on the last 10 months? If my question is more personal that i thing please vorgive me. Good luck anyway.

 

[KasinoKing]

online casinos don't "cheat" certainly not the better know gaming softwares but they are designed to make you lose with odd losing streaks on roulette blackjack or craps

Sorry, but can you please get a dictionary & look up the definition of "Contradiction".

Thanks.

 

[Slotster!]

People throw money at casinos - the casino's keep somewhere between 0.5% and 15% of it over a period of time, depending on the game played.

They are 'cheating' you openly, blatantly, entirely in your face and with no apology.

It's the best business in the world.

Provide absolutely nothing tangible in exchange for your money.

Anyone who thinks casinos cheat over and above the percentage they are fully, legally and entirely entitled to is a deluded sore loser and should probably stop gambling.

 

[Rusty]

People throw money at casinos - the casino's keep somewhere between 0.5% and 15% of it over a period of time, depending on the game played.

They are 'cheating' you openly, blatantly, entirely in your face and with no apology.

It's the best business in the world.

Provide absolutely nothing tangible in exchange for your money.

Anyone who thinks casinos cheat over and above the percentage they are fully, legally and entirely entitled to is a deluded sore loser and should probably stop gambling.

So no Casino or software has ever cheated?
Utter drivel.

 

[Slotster!]

So no Casino or software has ever cheated?
Utter drivel.

Short term blatantly criminal joints... Sure. Just like the street hustlers in Vegas or 'imposssible' fairground games... any industry will have this element. I wouldn't dream of playing online at anywhere other than the big, well established software providers. Similarly, I wouldn't dream of playing at the 'Bent Horseshoe Copper Nugget' - seven miles south on Las Vegas Blvd, turn right at the wooden shed, through the WalMart car park - we're just next to that dumpster on the left...

I'm talking established long standing proper set-ups that can gladly take money and make huge profits simply by asking for it and then keeping some; no underhand, 'streaky', cheating methods required.

Ironically, it's the big/most popular boys that get all the hassle and accusations round these parts; reason being that more people playing there = more sore losers/degenerate gamblers popping up here to whinge and moan about the 'cheating software' that is in reality their inability to behave, think and gamble responsibly.

 

[Rusty]

Similarly, I wouldn't dream of playing at the 'Bent Horseshoe Copper Nugget' - seven miles south on Las Vegas Blvd, turn right at the wooden shed, through the WalMart car park - we're just next to that dumpster on the left...


but they offer good bonuses!

The problem with your premise is that you assume incorrectly that because a business can make money legitimately they won't want to make even more money illegitimately which has obviously been proved false throughout history.

For what it is worth there is actually an important distinction to be made about what software is or is not legitimate and what constitutes cheating.

I certainly can not and would not say that the main software suppliers or larger online Casino operations cheat in the sense that the games are rigged to give only losing results.

Conversely I would say with certainty that the software is optimized for maximum and ensured profitability.

This almost always relates to slots as the variance/RTP can be manipulated (without the distinction of cheating being applicable)

You are right though that a honest remote Casino will make a profit in the long term but the results in the short term can be quite volatile and in fact fatal to smaller budget operations, many of which exist happily online.

 

[Slotster!]

Conversely I would say with certainty that the software is optimized for maximum and ensured profitability.

Oh, absolutely! Spot on... Just like every single casino game ever invented!

This almost always relates to slots as the variance/RTP can be manipulated (without the distinction of cheating being applicable)

I'm quite sure you can change the variance/% on online slots in the same way you can in land based casinos... A good example of this is the 500 slots in UK arcades and bookmakers. I've seen them as high as 96% payback and as low as 88% - they're still absolutely random in terms of the return for your individual session, with no pre-determined take/payout... Clearly you'd prefer to play the reel layout/payout table of the 96% machine (although in my experience the UK ones specifically are heavily weighted around the VERY NON RANDOM feature payouts)... I've no reason to assume online slots are any different.

Does anyone think that online casino software operators can't change the % payout of slots? I'd have thought that was a given...

Wagerlogic slots publish the % payouts incidentally - which have been known to vary on specific slots from operator to operator.

I still see no cheating.

 

[love2winalot]

to harryvoi: I have 9 checks from Bodog, from sep of 2008, to the one i just got today, for a total of $13,186, and my current balance there is $1,232. I got 3 direct deposits from clubworld for maybe $1700 total, but stopped playing because of the %10 fee that e wallet charges. I got a little check of around $350 from 3dice.

The check from Bodog was requested on Monday, and arrived today, so their payout is still fast

On another thread WW posted about the lobby refreashing at Bodog, and then being unable to win after that. This happens around once every 1/2 hour or so, i will time it later and see. When it happens in roulette, you see ---------------- scroll across the screen, and the game is frozen for a second or two. Last week when it happened, it did it as i was placing a chip on the #17, and i hit the ----------------thingy, and the game made a beeping sound, and the chip was not placed.

Since i usually take about and hour or longer to play a set, i will see the update/refresh things 2-4 times. If this is suppose to cause me to lose, then it must be broken.........

The, 'REPEAT' Button: Some people are sure that this is/can be, set up to make you lose. Once again, i have used this button all the time when i am betting a certain set of numbers, and know i will make the same bet 1-7 times or so. I have lost doing this, and i have Won doing this. It makes NO difference whatsoever.

Tip: Because of all the people i see posting on different thread about streaks in games and roulette, please do this. Next time, Red, or Odd numbers just keep hitting, STOP what you are doing, and start betting on them............Let's see someone show a screen shot of black hitting 14 times in a row, and the player having WON the last 10-11 of those. Then complain about the streak....

 

[harryvoi]

Thanks for the answer, but it was not the answer i have won ... or i have lost ... . But thanks it help me. I am playing roulette for three months. On may 2010 i will see what i have accomplished.

 

[Rusty]

Oh, absolutely! Spot on... Just like every single casino game ever invented!

I know what you mean but you can not reduce the payout on roulette but you can on slots and have it done in real time which is what I mean when I state, "the software is optimized for maximum and ensured profitability.
But you knew that already I guess"

I'm quite sure you can change the variance/% on online slots in the same way you can in land based casinos... A good example of this is the 500 slots in UK arcades and bookmakers. I've seen them as high as 96% payback and as low as 88% - they're still absolutely random in terms of the return for your individual session, with no pre-determined take/payout... Clearly you'd prefer to play the reel layout/payout table of the 96% machine (although in my experience the UK ones specifically are heavily weighted around the VERY NON RANDOM feature payouts)... I've no reason to assume online slots are any different.

We pretty much agree on this except this does not qualify your statement which is what I am arguing against.

"Anyone who thinks casinos cheat over and above the percentage they are fully, legally and entirely entitled to is a deluded sore loser and should probably stop gambling."

Are you saying they are legally and entirely entitled to alter the return percentage of their slots at any time without notifying the player - even if that percentage were blatantly unfair?
I have already argued why the deluded sore loser comment is wrong are you disagreeing with that?




Does anyone think that online casino software operators can't change the % payout of slots? I'd have thought that was a given...

Well it was not so long ago when it was a given around here that MG could and do not alter returns on slots and RTG only had 3 payout percentages which the operator chose at start up and then never changed.
Bonus rounds and free spins were still considered not to be predetermined.
I agree though it should be a given that they can and indeed do, do but whether or not it is accepted practice in B&M casinos in some countries it is still wrong unless the theoretical return is stated before play and not changed during play.
I don't call it cheating because as you say the slots still retain a random element but it is unethical and bad for the player

Wagerlogic slots publish the % payouts incidentally - which have been known to vary on specific slots from operator to operator.

I still see no cheating.

Well if you read my post I stated;
"I certainly can not and would not say that the main software suppliers or larger online Casino operations cheat in the sense that the games are rigged to give only losing results."

So I am not trying to convince you they are cheating in this sense - it would be business suicide if they did.

My point is that if people feel the software is being manipulated through weighting and the theoretical returns along with it to maintain optimal profit for the casino then IMO far from being deluded they are right to feel cheated even if the software is not rigged in the classical sense.

It should be totally unacceptable to have a situation whereby the player is playing a game that he assumes has 95% theoretical return yet it could have much lower at any given time.
This is my problem with current software on the market - not that it is rigged per se - but that it is disingenuous and unfair on the player.

I agree with most of what you are saying but I honestly think your original argument was ill conceived.