More Palace Group SPAM!

KasinoKing

WebMeister & Slotaholic..
webmeister
PABnonaccred
CAG
MM
Joined
Aug 25, 2004
Location
Bexhill on sea, England
Despite numerous previous threads highlighting this problem, the Palace Group are STILL allowing some of their affiliates to blatantly spam!

I just got this unsolicited e-mail today:-
Dear Player.

Is today your lucky day? Play Spin Palace today and win BIG!
Jackpot total currently over 6,000,000 - play now and win!
Over 280 state of the art casino games available at Spin Palace
If you love slots then you'll just love Spin Palace, with over 120 slots including, video slots, feature slots, 3 reel slots, 5 reel slots and massive jackpot slots!
Try the award winning Spin Palace casino and you could be our next big winner!
Find out why Spin Palace has become THE premier destination for online gamblers, download and play today!
With the best customer service and the fastest payouts in the industry, it's no wonder that Spin Palace is the favorite casino on the Internet

> Start Here <

Good Luck,

Robert Venston

Click here to unsubscribe.

<1;6hflYP2frb0zNvbFPuOuGnP70h;52514>

The 'Start Here' link = http:// www. bigspinwinners158 .com/1/a320623/index.asp
When I clicked on it it went straight to http:// www. spinpalace.com/uk/
And at the bottom there was some sort of tracking code:- "Visit Id: 346387812, Advert ID : 320623"

The 'Unsubscribe' link = http:// moonsweettimes .com/unsub.php?e=Your.name@dsl.pipex.com&m=52514

From the affiliate T&C's:
Spam: Unsolicited e-mail, sent indiscriminately to one or more mailing lists, individuals, or newsgroups.

4.2 Spam - In the giving of effect to this Agreement You may not, either directly or indirectly, be a party to the generation, processing, dissemination or the like of Spam.

Now don't get me wrong, I really like the Palace Group and rate them in my top 3 favorite MG casino groups, but them allowing this continual spamming really saddens & annoys me. :mad:
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Location
SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
What the heck is this group up to? A month ago, I asked for a retrieval of password to one of their casinos and they sent me a password. I could still not log in so I thought that there must be some technical errors. After several weeks, I tried to log in again to no avail. I contacted support and was told that due to a change in policy many months ago, Hong Kong is now an excluded jurisdiction.

I am surprised that they dont even bother to inform you that their policies have changed and that your accounts have been locked. Furthermore, when I asked what would happen to the balances and loyalty points, the rep answered that they had the right to cancel players' accounts for whatever reason and that balances would be returned by check/credit card although they reserve the right to confiscate any balances. What an icy response and I though she was living in the North Pole. She did not mention anything about the loyalty points and did not seem to think that not notifying players about account closures was wrong.

I wont be returning to play at any of these casinos even if they classify Hong Kong as a legal jurisdiction in future.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
I am still getting them, the format changes, but all are for Spin Palace.
It seems they are unable to trace and stop these affiliates.

In another thread, I highlighted that I have now received spam for one of the Playshare "white label" casino. How are we to believe that Mario will have any more success in stopping this than Palace Group.

Terms forbidding affiliates from spamming are of no use whatsoever if they cannot be enforced. So long as affiliates are able to get away with not having these "no spam" rules enforced, they will continue to spam like hell, knowing that a tiny percentage of a huge volume of sent E-mails is all they need to make more than they ever could through "honest" marketing.

Even reporting the spam does nothing, this has been repeatedly done with Palace Group, but the spam onslaught continues unabated. Eventually, it will be Spin Palace itself that finds it generates so many complaints from non-gamblers that the big ISP's will add them to the list of "bad domains" and this will make it much harder for both the casino and legitimate players to communicate effectively. One only has to see the problems with AOL,who are rather trigger happy when it comes to acting on complaints about spam. Just as with Casinomeister, I expect AOL are getting complaints about all these casinos apparently sending out huge volumes of spam, and will act in the same way as they did with Casinomeister, which has lead to to expulsion of all members here with AOL E-mail addresses (unless they register another non-AOL alternative).

If the spammers are actually making money from players gained through the spam, then the casinos have it in their power to put a stop to it by cutting the flow of revenue. If the spammers are doing it without any reward, the question must be "Why?".
 

jetset

RIP Brian
Joined
Feb 22, 2001
Location
Earth
I'm getting two or three a day from Big Casino and it's seriously hacking me off - I've given the casino an opportunity to sort it out with the affiliate/s concerned but if they don't do something about it I'll have to devote time and energy into putting Big Casino's feet to the licensing and regulatory fire.

I resent having to take time out of a busy day to do that - down with spammers!
 

Palace Group

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 7, 2005
Location
Online
Hi all,

I have been in touch with our affiliate manager.
He said this is one affiliate who is not responding to him. We working on getting this sorted with them as we do not appreciate these tactics.

I assure you we are working on getting this spam issue sorted out.

Chuchu59, I did respond to your PM to explain the issue regarding Hong Kong and also apologized for the communication and clarified that we did send out communication.

I appreciate the concerns raised and will have an update early next week. We are trying daily to get in touch wth the affiliate to get him to stop the mails.

Regards,

Darran
 
Last edited:

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
Hi all,

I have been in touch with our affiliate manager.
He said this is one affiliate who is not responding to him. We working on getting this sorted with them as we do not appreciate these tactics.

I assure you we are working on getting this spam issue sorted out.

Chuchu59, I did respond to your PM to explain the issue regarding Hong Kong and also apologized for the communication and clarified that we did send out communication.

I appreciate the concerns raised and will have an update early next week. We are trying daily to get in touch wth the affiliate to get him to stop the mails.

Regards,

Darran
You guys need to yank his account - period. Spammers are spammers. They will never stop.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
I think this is the problem, when casinos play "softly softly" with the spammers they are going to go all out with the campaign because they know they have been rumbled.
Eventually, he may respond and pretend it was all a big mistake, and get forgiven, naturally keeping the money from the spammed players.
Next time, he will try a different tactic.

If this is merely ONE unresponsive affiliate he has been mightily busy over the last few months. He must have designed dozens of different mailers, and spoofed dozens of different E-mail addresses.

This may be the difference between how casino marketing departments handle this that causes the impression that one casino will act promptly, while at another a spamming campaign will go on for ages.

This new thread has been started, no doubt, because we all know that Palace Group have been given all the information needed to track the spammer, yet nearly three months on the spams keep on coming.

For those just starting to have an interest in online gambling, Spin Palace must be seen in the same light as the other less savoury casino operations because of the sheer volume of spam over the last few months.

As Casinomeister said, yank the account, and this will either force him to respond (in order to get paid), or he will try to sign up as a new affiliate and start all over again.

Contrast this with how casinos treat PLAYERS who have not played by the rules, INSTANT locked account, even for relatively minor transgressions, and ask questions later. Where bonus terms are breached, then winnings are often confiscated, it is therefore only fair that this affiliate has his commission confiscated that he earned during this spamming campaign.
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Location
SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
Hi all,

I have been in touch with our affiliate manager.
He said this is one affiliate who is not responding to him. We working on getting this sorted with them as we do not appreciate these tactics.

I assure you we are working on getting this spam issue sorted out.

Chuchu59, I did respond to your PM to explain the issue regarding Hong Kong and also apologized for the communication and clarified that we did send out communication.

I appreciate the concerns raised and will have an update early next week. We are trying daily to get in touch wth the affiliate to get him to stop the mails.

Regards,

Darran

Darran,

I did receive your PM but you will also understand my need for venting out the frustration on this issue. Together, my wife and I had accounts in most of the Palace casinos and there was not even a sprinkling of info on the accounts being closed. Never mind, that's the end of it as far as I am concerned.
 

winbig

Keep winning this amount.
Joined
Mar 10, 2005
Location
Pennsylvania
Hi all,

I have been in touch with our affiliate manager.
He said this is one affiliate who is not responding to him. We working on getting this sorted with them as we do not appreciate these tactics.

I assure you we are working on getting this spam issue sorted out.

Chuchu59, I did respond to your PM to explain the issue regarding Hong Kong and also apologized for the communication and clarified that we did send out communication.

I appreciate the concerns raised and will have an update early next week. We are trying daily to get in touch wth the affiliate to get him to stop the mails.

Regards,

Darran


I have to agree with Bryan on this one. When an affiliate signs up ANYWHERE, they agree with the T&C which include no spamming.

If more affiliate programs had a ZERO TOLERANCE policy, we wouldn't have half as much spam as we do now.

I really don't get it. If this was a player that played an excluded game while using a bonus, their account would be locked and winnings confiscated....but if an affiliate breaks the terms they get a slap on the wrist? :confused:

If you really wanted them to stop sending those mails, then close their account. I bet that would work :)
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
......and it just goes on and on and on.....


and on and on.....

Look at the first line "We are sorry to see you go but we know you like these newsletters so here is one for your perusal. "

How the F*** is this an "innocent mistake" that just needs to be corrected by "talking to the affiliate".

IF I have unsubscribed - STOP SENDING THE F******** SPAM:mad::mad:

As long as they are being paid, this will continue, and no doubt they have sold my E-mail address to their spammy friends now they KNOW it's a real one.

Why is there SO MUCH for "spin palace", TOTALLY out of proportion to their position in the market place. This has to be "big time" spamming, not some small operation, and they are just hitting this ONE casino over all others.

This must leave an incredibly bad impression upon those who are not playing online, and if they ever look into it, they will think, "Oh, Spin Palace, they have ot be dodgy because they spam the merry *&$ out of my inbox, and the others are nowhere near as bad.".
They MIGHT play at Mummy's Gold though, as this spammer seems obsessed with Spin Palace, with the occasional Ruby Fortune from his spammy friends.

My ISP is now marking ANYTHING related to "Spin Palace" as spam, so when they try to send me things as a player, it gets marked as spam, and I would never see it if I allowed my ISP to deal with it centrally.

Many of the other casinos that have turned the proverbial "blind eye" to spamming campaigns now have all their legitimate mailers marked as spam by my ISP, and again I wouldn't see them if I turned the filters back on.
In some cases, even replies from casino CS are marked as SPAM:what::what:
 

winbig

Keep winning this amount.
Joined
Mar 10, 2005
Location
Pennsylvania
......and it just goes on and on and on.....


and on and on.....

Look at the first line "We are sorry to see you go but we know you like these newsletters so here is one for your perusal. "

How the F*** is this an "innocent mistake" that just needs to be corrected by "talking to the affiliate".

IF I have unsubscribed - STOP SENDING THE F******** SPAM:mad::mad:

As long as they are being paid, this will continue, and no doubt they have sold my E-mail address to their spammy friends now they KNOW it's a real one.

Why is there SO MUCH for "spin palace", TOTALLY out of proportion to their position in the market place. This has to be "big time" spamming, not some small operation, and they are just hitting this ONE casino over all others.

This must leave an incredibly bad impression upon those who are not playing online, and if they ever look into it, they will think, "Oh, Spin Palace, they have ot be dodgy because they spam the merry *&$ out of my inbox, and the others are nowhere near as bad.".
They MIGHT play at Mummy's Gold though, as this spammer seems obsessed with Spin Palace, with the occasional Ruby Fortune from his spammy friends.

My ISP is now marking ANYTHING related to "Spin Palace" as spam, so when they try to send me things as a player, it gets marked as spam, and I would never see it if I allowed my ISP to deal with it centrally.

Many of the other casinos that have turned the proverbial "blind eye" to spamming campaigns now have all their legitimate mailers marked as spam by my ISP, and again I wouldn't see them if I turned the filters back on.
In some cases, even replies from casino CS are marked as SPAM:what::what:

am I the only one that noticed the "csinomeister best new casino 2002" part? :lolup:
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
am I the only one that noticed the "csinomeister best new casino 2002" part? :lolup:

Didn't see that, but it's a great forensic "fingerprint" for showing that all this has come from one source, whatever domain and E-mail address is shown, or spoofed, as the sender.

Perhaps they are afraid of spelling "Casinomeister" properly in case they have Bryan going after them for trademark infringement.

I have also managed to connect this affiliate to some of the Grand Mondial spam, and Mario said it was one of their new games mailers and not spam when I posted the Grand Mondial version - a view he may regret now I have also posted the Spin Palace version that comes from what he claims to be one of his group's promotional mailing domain.

It seems the line "Sorry to see you go....." appeared around the same time as the Palace Group rep said they had tried to contact the affiliate in question and could not get a reply. This is a bad move, since the addition of this line indicates the sender has recorded an unsubscribe request, and this makes this 100% spam LEGALY if they continue to be sent. There can be no doubt now that this is not an "innocent mistake", but a calculated spamming campaign designed to take advantage of the delay between being "rumbled" and eventually having their affiliate account suspended, which in this case seems to have been several months and counting.
By not responding, the affiliate is further delaying enforcement action, as the affiliate manager seems reluctant to act until the affiliate has put in a defence statement, which I doubt he has.
 

AussieDave

Banned User
Joined
Dec 24, 2005
Location
Australia
Hi all,

I'm about as sick of this SPAM as everyone else.

It's bad enough being perpetually bombarded by porn, viagra, penis pills & dodgy casinos to name a few. But, when a legit casino that I and other hold in high regard are associated to it, I draw the line.

So everyone is aware I sent an email to Wagershare the aff program for Spin Palace. I received what could only be discribed as a generic response, (many other received the same email). Some hog wash about it being a media buy.

Things didn't gel, so I started digging...

I discover that the routed URL was being hosted on the Spin Palace server. With this I sent Mr Alex M of Wagershare and presented him with these finding:

-----------------------------
Domain Name: BIGSPINWINNERS151.COM
Registrar: GODADDY.COM, INC.
Whois Server: whois.godaddy.com
Referral URL: Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)
Name Server: NS47.DOMAINCONTROL.COM
Name Server: NS48.DOMAINCONTROL.COM
Status: clientDeleteProhibited
Status: clientRenewProhibited
Status: clientTransferProhibited
Status: clientUpdateProhibited
Updated Date: 08-oct-2007
Creation Date: 08-oct-2007
Expiration Date: 08-oct-2008

Answer records

bigspinwinners151.com 1 SOA server: ns47.domaincontrol.com
email: dxxx@jomax.net
serial: 2007100800
refresh: 28800
retry: 7200
expire: 604800
minimum ttl: 86400
86400s
bigspinwinners151.com 1 A 207.219.111.154 3600s
bigspinwinners151.com 1 NS ns47.domaincontrol.com 3600s
bigspinwinners151.com 1 NS ns48.domaincontrol.com 3600s
bigspinwinners151.com 1 MX preference: 0
exchange: smtp.secureserver.net
3600s
bigspinwinners151.com 1 MX preference: 10
exchange: mailstore1.secureserver.net
3600s

bigspinwinners151.com A 207.219.111.154 207.219.0.0/16 TELUS 207 219 0 0

hostnames sharing ip with a-records
cabaretclub.com
jackpotsinaflash.com
mummysgold.net
piggscasino.com
piggscasino.net
piggspoker.net
pigscasino.net
poker333.net
-----------------------------------

At that point I received a personal response from Mr Alex M (extracts of this email follows):

"All publishers who wish to send out mailers for any of The Palace Group properties are given a 'mailing domain' to use. This is true whether the publisher be a revenue share affiliate or a media buy. This is done because when a domain is used in a mailer it invariably ends up on a blocklist regardless of whether the list is opt-in or double opt-in."

"Without giving these seperate mailing domains it results in our main domains being blacklisted which then makes it impossible to contact our existing players with promotions etc. This is also why mailers are not available from WagerShare because a new domain is issued to every single person who wishes to send one out."

"This is the only reason that the domain in question is on the same server as Spin Palace. I can categorically state that the email you received DOES NOT originate from Spin Palace but a media buy from the marketing department who are investigating the situation."

Would these facts have been revealed if I'd not have dug deeper, I doubt it.

Anyway's...The SPAM continued...At that point it was really starting to impact on my time what with trying to get the crap stopped.

With little recourse left, I contacted a number of places about the SPAM, including eCogra (Tex who btw is looking into this matter) and both Ontario and UK government bodies regarding their anti spam laws.

I then contacted Wagershare again, however at that point comms had deteriorated, so I sent a last ditched effort to Debbie Taylor (manager of Spin Palace), unfortunately I received no response from her either.

Who is really responsible for this SPAM? Your call...



Cheers

Trezz
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
"All publishers who wish to send out mailers for any of The Palace Group properties are given a 'mailing domain' to use. This is true whether the publisher be a revenue share affiliate or a media buy. This is done because when a domain is used in a mailer it invariably ends up on a blocklist regardless of whether the list is opt-in or double opt-in."

"Without giving these seperate mailing domains it results in our main domains being blacklisted which then makes it impossible to contact our existing players with promotions etc. This is also why mailers are not available from WagerShare because a new domain is issued to every single person who wishes to send one out."

"This is the only reason that the domain in question is on the same server as Spin Palace. I can categorically state that the email you received DOES NOT originate from Spin Palace but a media buy from the marketing department who are investigating the situation."

This mailer is SPAM

Unless the recipient has given explicit permission to receive these "mailers" (read spam) it's spam.

I would advise that the Spin Palace group read up on what happened to Fortune Lounge two years ago with their spam problem and eventual fall from grace. And read up on Casinomeister's Spam policy:
https://www.casinomeister.com/how-to/fight-online-casino-spam/

By the way - that spammer better remove the reference to Casinomeister now - I mean today now. :mad:
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Could this be why some casinos seem unduly lax when the spam is reported to them, because they have actually paid a company to send it out.
In the case of the media buy, were our E-mail addresses held by Palace group for our accounts also passed on to help the media company compile their mailing list.
Certainly, while the lists may have an opt out, they were never gained by an opt-in procedure. There is a big difference in law between being sent communications by a company you have a relationship with, but passing that address information to third parties for connected marketing without permission is a different matter. In fact, under EU data protection laws it is illegal. Customers must be able to separately agree or not agree to receive promotional material from the company itself, and "selected third parties" of that company. It is not acceptable to require customers to opt in to both, or neither.
This will come to the fore when such casino groups market into the EU (as they already do), as they will be requird to abide by EU rules, and in the case of casinos must also be licenced by a white listed juristiction. If casinos think being offshore means they can get away with it, look what happened when the US got serious about cracking down - being offshore was no comfort then.
The UK gambling commission has a lot of staff with far less to do than was anticipated, and they will find something to do rather than face a downsizing, they have recently found time to crack down on casinos offering "foreign gambling" as prizes in promotions, even where the prize involves a foreign bricks and mortar venue, such as the world poker tournament.

EDIT - Added spam mailer source files for Bryan.
 
Last edited:

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Have palace group sold/passed player details!

This is a pertinrnet question. I have just received a SNAIL mail "spam", that addresses me by name and has my FULL address.
It invites me to a special new year PERSONAL promotion for "www.spcasino.com"

There is NO detail of the sender whatsoever, but I decided to click on this "spcasino" and lo and behold it is F***ing SPIN PALACE AGAIN!!!!

This is beyond a joke!

Spamming by a "rogue affiliate" is bad enough, but is seems some of these "rogue affiliates" have been handed my SNAIL mail details as well.

Since I ALREADY have an account at Spin Palace, this is proof absolute that this does NOT come from them, but from an "affiliate" who has no idea whether the targets already have an account.

Just like the spam, the mailshot seeks to disguise the true website by dressing it up as this "spcasino.com". There is ABSOLUTELY NO NEED FOR THIS DECEPTION, why not simply have the proper casino name featured on the mailer!

Incidentally, since this came through the post, it is NOT "wild west" laws as on the internet. Several breaches of UK and EU law have been committed.

1) The mailer is misleading - it seeks to disguise the entity being promoted.
2) NO details of the sender are given.
3) NO terms and conditions are available for this "special personalised offer" since the spoof website simply redirects to the main website, and the scratch off panel is a sham contest (also illegal) as the only possible outcome is the free $1000, which just so happens to be the new player bonus - so nothing "special" or "personal" to me.

4) If the underlying casino has NOT been licenced by a UK "whitelisted" territory, then a further, more serious, offence has been committed.


With no "sender" details given, legal responsibility will lie with the Palace Group as a whole, and they will have to PROVE they did not breach any laws.

5) Depending on how my full personal details became available to the sender (if not Palace group), privacy laws may have been broken, and if the casino IS in the EU, they could be in BIG trouble.

This leads me to conclude that our names and full postal addresses ARE INDEED being sold or transferred to third party marketing outfits, affiliates, spammers, etc by even the reputable online casinos.

As well as having our postal details in uncontrolled foreign circulation, this could also lead us to being "shafted" by being made "personalised" offers for which we do not actually qualify, and as we know this only comes to light on withdrawal. By using disguised casino names, it can be much harder to determine whether we already have accounts that would disqualify us from the mailed offer.

Far from doing nothing about the spam reported before Christmas, it seems the casinos have been quietly doing the opposite, stepping up these campaigns to include snailmail, as well as being unduly lenient on the internet spammers.

I am STILL getting the e-mail spam from the "rogue affiliates" that just "need a talking to" by both Grand Mondial (and white labels) and Spin Palace. This stands out because it counts for nearly HALF the amount of casino spam, yet these are just TWO reputable casinos. The other half of the spam is from the rogues, where this sort of behaviour can be expected and little done about it.

Complaining to the casinos, the reps here, and Bryan himself seem to have had no effect other than the casinos to say they are trying to "talk to" the affiliates concerned. Within this atmosphere of leniency the spammers are flourishing and spreading their wings.
Clearly, there needs to be an escalation of this matter beyond the industry, including eCogra, and to the regulatory authorities who will know for sure whether the casinos could have done something about it but didn't, or whether the casinos even had a part in the problem themselves by passing our details to "marketing firms".

Now highlighted, this problem has to be nipped in the bud NOW!!! If not, it will severely damage the industry's reputation with the various governments that are being asked to accept the industry as legitimate, rather than populated mostly by rogues.
 

Zoozie

Ueber Meister
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Dec 1, 2005
Location
Denmark
This is a pertinrnet question. I have just received a SNAIL mail "spam", that addresses me by name and has my FULL address.
It invites me to a special new year PERSONAL promotion for "www.spcasino.com"

There is NO detail of the sender whatsoever, but I decided to click on this "spcasino" and lo and behold it is F***ing SPIN PALACE AGAIN!!!!

This is beyond a joke!

I also got this snail mail today and I was equally surprised. Of course I had to see what "spcasino" was and I had expected some a new Playtech rogue casino though the mail had the "Palace Group" logo.

But why make a URL and just forward to "spin palance"? White label?
And the offer in the mail (1 hour free slot play) was only for new customers, so why the hell then send me the mail? Someone sold me out.

What saddens me most is that this is traced to the Palace Group which so far has been clean in my book.
 
Last edited:

lojo

Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Location
USA
If spam is a problem, it's probably time to hold all people with access to databases feet to the fire, and when the smoke clears, do it again. I have an email box that has never had a rogue casino in it - until recently.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
I also got this snail mail today and I was equally surprised. Of course I had to see what "spcasino" was and I had expected some a new Playtech rogue casino though the mail had the "Palace Group" logo.

But why make a URL and just forward to "spin palance"? White label?
And the offer in the mail (1 hour free slot play) was only for new customers, so why the hell then send me the mail? Someone sold me out.

What saddens me most is that this is traced to the Palace Group which so far has been clean in my book.

This just proves my point. This is an INTERNATIONAL campaign, and rules out it being a localised UK company using alternate sources of UK details for use with marketing a client.
This can only mean my full details have been released by the online casino(s) to various third party marketing firms, who are now using them beyond simply servicing the casinos I have accounts with by bulk sending me PROPER personalised offers such as Christmas cards, postal bonuses, gifts, etc.

Changing our POSTAL details is a hell of a lot harder than changing our E-mail addresses, and with no sender details given, there is no way to inform the marketing firm we do not want their snailmail (the blank reverse side being too shiny for my printer in this one:p), or to stop these details being sent to OLD addresses should we move.

I have just watched a documentary on Facebook, which exposes what industry is REALLY up to with our personal details. One firm, 1000 Heads, has a room full of staff just going through all our info, and listening into facebook conversations, in order to extract and sell VERY comprehensive databases on us (not me, I haven't joined:D). Facebook also has ambitions to trawl other media, such as newspapers and the internet, to build a "superdatabase" on it's members life profile (the reporter was told this would not be permitted under UK and EU laws, but can be done because Facebook has a far more lenient regime - it's based in the USA!!!!). This has those "city boys" wetting their proverbial pants in anticipation of the "next Google" worth billions (seems they have learned nothing from 2000/1).

Knowing all this, casino reps need to be wary of giving out the patronising excuses for this debacle that they have currently been offering. This is no "loose cannon" affiliate or two, this is pre-planned bulk marketing (or spamming) requiring specialist knowledge, not the sort of thing the average amaetur affiliate will posess. This also means our details are NOT SAFE if they are passed to subcontractors, no matter how well meaning, the big marketing outfits have shown how damn determined they are to find loopholes in all regulations and voluntary agreements meant to protect out personal data from being exploited.

With what we are up against, perhaps polite conversation with the casinos, their reps, and even eCogra is just not enough to get what is necessary done. It seems that only a rap over the knuckles from the big government regulators will have enough clout, as well as exposure in the mass media.
We have the example of Absolute Poker to work with, it was ONLY when the mass media and regulators got their teeth into the issue that they acted.

The best way to enfoce this would be for the casinos to be fined for each and every unique "spam" that players forward to the regulators after a period of grace has been given in order to put a stop to it. The fine would be levied if the casino have some pressure they can excersise, such as suspending the offending affiliate account, but refuse to do it. With snailmail, the fines should be levied if the mail is in any way misleading, such as pretending someone is qualified for a personalised offer when in fact it is just the standard new player offer. Mailers sent by official marketing firms MUST properly identify the casino, not use disguised referral sites, and the detais of the sender MUST be on the letter/leaflet in case the recipient wants to ask that their details be removed from that marketing firm's database.

There are three main entities here in the UK that may have an interest in this:-

1) Trading standards
2) Advertising standards agency
3) Gambling commission

If these confirm laws and regulations have been breached, then others may take an interest. The result may be that some reputable casinos that embark on these practices will end up on trading standard's "rogue firms lists", and it may also endanger their whitelisted status here in the UK if they have one, and if they are in a juristiction that is applying, they may damage the chances that said juristiction will be granted whitelist status by the UK Gambling Commission.

Pity I only have the one copy though.
 

lifechooser

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Location
Southampton, UK
Hello there! I'm late to the thread, but I think I may be able to help here.

I'm getting loads of spin palace emails too. I've checked the to: addresses and they vary, but they are all casino addresses. I only have one spam currently, as I have deleted the rest, and it is addressed to totesport@ (remember their wonderful excuses in my other thread). I'm fairly certain that nearly all of my leaked addresses have been used in this campaign, so playboy@, intercasino@, intercasinouk@, littlewoods@, totesport@ and bluesq@, although off the top of my head, I don't recall any spin palace spam to the bluesq address.

I'll have a look at my spam over the next few days and report back on what addresses are being used. As for chasing the casinos who leak information down, good luck, though I would be glad to help in any way I can.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Hello there! I'm late to the thread, but I think I may be able to help here.

I'm getting loads of spin palace emails too. I've checked the to: addresses and they vary, but they are all casino addresses. I only have one spam currently, as I have deleted the rest, and it is addressed to totesport@ (remember their wonderful excuses in my other thread). I'm fairly certain that nearly all of my leaked addresses have been used in this campaign, so playboy@, intercasino@, intercasinouk@, littlewoods@, totesport@ and bluesq@, although off the top of my head, I don't recall any spin palace spam to the bluesq address.

I'll have a look at my spam over the next few days and report back on what addresses are being used. As for chasing the casinos who leak information down, good luck, though I would be glad to help in any way I can.

It would be impossible to determine which casino leaked what to whom. However, if it is ONLY addresses given out to online casinos that are inundated with the spam, it is clear that there is a causal link between suppying IN CONFIDENCE our Email address to online casinos, and said addresses making their way onto spammer's lists. It probably only takes a few breaches to do a great deal of damage, and the way casinos continually "lose" Emails containing images of our ID documents, often asking again and again for them to be resent, makes me think their security procedures are so lax that we are lucky the problem is not even worse than it is.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Hi all,

I'm about as sick of this SPAM as everyone else.

It's bad enough being perpetually bombarded by porn, viagra, penis pills & dodgy casinos to name a few. But, when a legit casino that I and other hold in high regard are associated to it, I draw the line.

So everyone is aware I sent an email to Wagershare the aff program for Spin Palace. I received what could only be discribed as a generic response, (many other received the same email). Some hog wash about it being a media buy.

Things didn't gel, so I started digging...

I discover that the routed URL was being hosted on the Spin Palace server. With this I sent Mr Alex M of Wagershare and presented him with these finding:

-----------------------------
Domain Name: BIGSPINWINNERS151.COM
Registrar: GODADDY.COM, INC.
Whois Server: whois.godaddy.com
Referral URL: Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)
Name Server: NS47.DOMAINCONTROL.COM
Name Server: NS48.DOMAINCONTROL.COM
Status: clientDeleteProhibited
Status: clientRenewProhibited
Status: clientTransferProhibited
Status: clientUpdateProhibited
Updated Date: 08-oct-2007
Creation Date: 08-oct-2007
Expiration Date: 08-oct-2008

Answer records

bigspinwinners151.com 1 SOA server: ns47.domaincontrol.com
email: dxxx@jomax.net
serial: 2007100800
refresh: 28800
retry: 7200
expire: 604800
minimum ttl: 86400
86400s
bigspinwinners151.com 1 A 207.219.111.154 3600s
bigspinwinners151.com 1 NS ns47.domaincontrol.com 3600s
bigspinwinners151.com 1 NS ns48.domaincontrol.com 3600s
bigspinwinners151.com 1 MX preference: 0
exchange: smtp.secureserver.net
3600s
bigspinwinners151.com 1 MX preference: 10
exchange: mailstore1.secureserver.net
3600s

bigspinwinners151.com A 207.219.111.154 207.219.0.0/16 TELUS 207 219 0 0

hostnames sharing ip with a-records
cabaretclub.com
jackpotsinaflash.com
mummysgold.net
piggscasino.com
piggscasino.net
piggspoker.net
pigscasino.net
poker333.net
-----------------------------------

At that point I received a personal response from Mr Alex M (extracts of this email follows):

"All publishers who wish to send out mailers for any of The Palace Group properties are given a 'mailing domain' to use. This is true whether the publisher be a revenue share affiliate or a media buy. This is done because when a domain is used in a mailer it invariably ends up on a blocklist regardless of whether the list is opt-in or double opt-in."

"Without giving these seperate mailing domains it results in our main domains being blacklisted which then makes it impossible to contact our existing players with promotions etc. This is also why mailers are not available from WagerShare because a new domain is issued to every single person who wishes to send one out."

"This is the only reason that the domain in question is on the same server as Spin Palace. I can categorically state that the email you received DOES NOT originate from Spin Palace but a media buy from the marketing department who are investigating the situation."

Would these facts have been revealed if I'd not have dug deeper, I doubt it.

Anyway's...The SPAM continued...At that point it was really starting to impact on my time what with trying to get the crap stopped.

With little recourse left, I contacted a number of places about the SPAM, including eCogra (Tex who btw is looking into this matter) and both Ontario and UK government bodies regarding their anti spam laws.

I then contacted Wagershare again, however at that point comms had deteriorated, so I sent a last ditched effort to Debbie Taylor (manager of Spin Palace), unfortunately I received no response from her either.

Who is really responsible for this SPAM? Your call...



Cheers

Trezz

Would it improve things if it was the physical SERVER, not the individual domains, that could be added to blocklists where said server continues to allow new spamming domains to be opened. Doing this would prevent spammers simply moving to another domain on the server, they would have to find a new machine to host the spam from. This will not stop the "rogue" spammers, but will seriously affect those firms that seek to interpret "spam" as "marketing" and provide ways for their affiliates to get around blocking problems, rather than instigate a "zero tolerance" policy.
If they faced having a whole server blocked, I am sure action against spammers would be far more robust than at present, as one "bad apple or two" would "infect the whole basket", and could not be allowed to sit there to see if the situation improves, but would have to be immediately removed.



I have just had 2 more in the time it took me to post on a few threads here.
Both are "sorry to seem me go", but insist that REALLY I DO want the spam, and am in denial by saying I don't.

One, as you would all expect, is the one for Spin Palace, still sporting the "endorsement by csinomeister".

The other is for Club USA, a new entrant to the spamwars.
The ClubUSA spam claims that "US players are welcome". Funny that, I thought Club World decided to pull out of the US, perhaps the rep can enlighten.

This spam is already flagged as such by my ISP's blocklist, but sadly it has now taken to blocking all the GENUINE mailers for these, and other, casinos, no doubt due to the effect of this surge in spam with a strong bias to a small number of named casinos.
As this tide of spam has increased, I have found a similar increase in problems in both sending and receiving legitimate Emails. This shows it is NOT just an inconvenience to be trashed by filtering, it is breaking the internet!!!! Email is breaking under the strain!! and losing important messages, and this can do real harm where arguments result between sender and receiver as to who did, or didn't, send/receive/ignore/bin what message.
 
Top