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More Palace Group SPAM!

Discussion in 'Casino Spam Complaints' started by KasinoKing, Dec 11, 2007.

    Dec 11, 2007
  1. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    Despite numerous previous threads highlighting this problem, the Palace Group are STILL allowing some of their affiliates to blatantly spam!

    I just got this unsolicited e-mail today:-
    The 'Start Here' link = http:// www. bigspinwinners158 .com/1/a320623/index.asp
    When I clicked on it it went straight to http:// www. spinpalace.com/uk/
    And at the bottom there was some sort of tracking code:- "Visit Id: 346387812, Advert ID : 320623"

    The 'Unsubscribe' link = http:// moonsweettimes .com/unsub.php?e=Your.name@dsl.pipex.com&m=52514

    From the affiliate T&C's:
    Now don't get me wrong, I really like the Palace Group and rate them in my top 3 favorite MG casino groups, but them allowing this continual spamming really saddens & annoys me. :mad:
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. Dec 11, 2007
  3. Mallorca

    Mallorca Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Night job
    Location:
    Stockholm
    Hi KK,I did receive the same email today and... it is not the first time... :mad:
     
  4. Dec 11, 2007
  5. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    EXECUTIVE
    Location:
    SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
    What the heck is this group up to? A month ago, I asked for a retrieval of password to one of their casinos and they sent me a password. I could still not log in so I thought that there must be some technical errors. After several weeks, I tried to log in again to no avail. I contacted support and was told that due to a change in policy many months ago, Hong Kong is now an excluded jurisdiction.

    I am surprised that they dont even bother to inform you that their policies have changed and that your accounts have been locked. Furthermore, when I asked what would happen to the balances and loyalty points, the rep answered that they had the right to cancel players' accounts for whatever reason and that balances would be returned by check/credit card although they reserve the right to confiscate any balances. What an icy response and I though she was living in the North Pole. She did not mention anything about the loyalty points and did not seem to think that not notifying players about account closures was wrong.

    I wont be returning to play at any of these casinos even if they classify Hong Kong as a legal jurisdiction in future.
     
  6. Dec 11, 2007
  7. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I am still getting them, the format changes, but all are for Spin Palace.
    It seems they are unable to trace and stop these affiliates.

    In another thread, I highlighted that I have now received spam for one of the Playshare "white label" casino. How are we to believe that Mario will have any more success in stopping this than Palace Group.

    Terms forbidding affiliates from spamming are of no use whatsoever if they cannot be enforced. So long as affiliates are able to get away with not having these "no spam" rules enforced, they will continue to spam like hell, knowing that a tiny percentage of a huge volume of sent E-mails is all they need to make more than they ever could through "honest" marketing.

    Even reporting the spam does nothing, this has been repeatedly done with Palace Group, but the spam onslaught continues unabated. Eventually, it will be Spin Palace itself that finds it generates so many complaints from non-gamblers that the big ISP's will add them to the list of "bad domains" and this will make it much harder for both the casino and legitimate players to communicate effectively. One only has to see the problems with AOL,who are rather trigger happy when it comes to acting on complaints about spam. Just as with Casinomeister, I expect AOL are getting complaints about all these casinos apparently sending out huge volumes of spam, and will act in the same way as they did with Casinomeister, which has lead to to expulsion of all members here with AOL E-mail addresses (unless they register another non-AOL alternative).

    If the spammers are actually making money from players gained through the spam, then the casinos have it in their power to put a stop to it by cutting the flow of revenue. If the spammers are doing it without any reward, the question must be "Why?".
     
  8. Dec 11, 2007
  9. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth
    I'm getting two or three a day from Big Casino and it's seriously hacking me off - I've given the casino an opportunity to sort it out with the affiliate/s concerned but if they don't do something about it I'll have to devote time and energy into putting Big Casino's feet to the licensing and regulatory fire.

    I resent having to take time out of a busy day to do that - down with spammers!
     
  10. Dec 11, 2007
  11. Palace Group

    Palace Group Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Customer Support
    Location:
    Online
    Hi all,

    I have been in touch with our affiliate manager.
    He said this is one affiliate who is not responding to him. We working on getting this sorted with them as we do not appreciate these tactics.

    I assure you we are working on getting this spam issue sorted out.

    Chuchu59, I did respond to your PM to explain the issue regarding Hong Kong and also apologized for the communication and clarified that we did send out communication.

    I appreciate the concerns raised and will have an update early next week. We are trying daily to get in touch wth the affiliate to get him to stop the mails.

    Regards,

    Darran
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2007
  12. Dec 11, 2007
  13. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    You guys need to yank his account - period. Spammers are spammers. They will never stop.
     
    3 people like this.
  14. Dec 11, 2007
  15. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I think this is the problem, when casinos play "softly softly" with the spammers they are going to go all out with the campaign because they know they have been rumbled.
    Eventually, he may respond and pretend it was all a big mistake, and get forgiven, naturally keeping the money from the spammed players.
    Next time, he will try a different tactic.

    If this is merely ONE unresponsive affiliate he has been mightily busy over the last few months. He must have designed dozens of different mailers, and spoofed dozens of different E-mail addresses.

    This may be the difference between how casino marketing departments handle this that causes the impression that one casino will act promptly, while at another a spamming campaign will go on for ages.

    This new thread has been started, no doubt, because we all know that Palace Group have been given all the information needed to track the spammer, yet nearly three months on the spams keep on coming.

    For those just starting to have an interest in online gambling, Spin Palace must be seen in the same light as the other less savoury casino operations because of the sheer volume of spam over the last few months.

    As Casinomeister said, yank the account, and this will either force him to respond (in order to get paid), or he will try to sign up as a new affiliate and start all over again.

    Contrast this with how casinos treat PLAYERS who have not played by the rules, INSTANT locked account, even for relatively minor transgressions, and ask questions later. Where bonus terms are breached, then winnings are often confiscated, it is therefore only fair that this affiliate has his commission confiscated that he earned during this spamming campaign.
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. Dec 11, 2007
  17. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    EXECUTIVE
    Location:
    SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
    Darran,

    I did receive your PM but you will also understand my need for venting out the frustration on this issue. Together, my wife and I had accounts in most of the Palace casinos and there was not even a sprinkling of info on the accounts being closed. Never mind, that's the end of it as far as I am concerned.
     
  18. Dec 12, 2007
  19. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    More

    The affiliate has responded by increasing the amount of spam, and varying the format. I have had THREE in just ONE DAY.
     
  20. Dec 12, 2007
  21. winbig

    winbig Keep winning this amount. webby PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Bum
    Location:
    Pennsylvania

    I have to agree with Bryan on this one. When an affiliate signs up ANYWHERE, they agree with the T&C which include no spamming.

    If more affiliate programs had a ZERO TOLERANCE policy, we wouldn't have half as much spam as we do now.

    I really don't get it. If this was a player that played an excluded game while using a bonus, their account would be locked and winnings confiscated....but if an affiliate breaks the terms they get a slap on the wrist? :confused:

    If you really wanted them to stop sending those mails, then close their account. I bet that would work :)
     
    1 person likes this.
  22. Dec 12, 2007
  23. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Mathematician by day, online gambler by night.
    Location:
    UK
    Stop paying him. I am certain he will respond to that.
     
    1 person likes this.
  24. Dec 19, 2007
  25. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    ......and it just goes on and on and on.....


    and on and on.....

    Look at the first line "We are sorry to see you go but we know you like these newsletters so here is one for your perusal. "

    How the F*** is this an "innocent mistake" that just needs to be corrected by "talking to the affiliate".

    IF I have unsubscribed - STOP SENDING THE F******** SPAM:mad::mad:

    As long as they are being paid, this will continue, and no doubt they have sold my E-mail address to their spammy friends now they KNOW it's a real one.

    Why is there SO MUCH for "spin palace", TOTALLY out of proportion to their position in the market place. This has to be "big time" spamming, not some small operation, and they are just hitting this ONE casino over all others.

    This must leave an incredibly bad impression upon those who are not playing online, and if they ever look into it, they will think, "Oh, Spin Palace, they have ot be dodgy because they spam the merry *&$ out of my inbox, and the others are nowhere near as bad.".
    They MIGHT play at Mummy's Gold though, as this spammer seems obsessed with Spin Palace, with the occasional Ruby Fortune from his spammy friends.

    My ISP is now marking ANYTHING related to "Spin Palace" as spam, so when they try to send me things as a player, it gets marked as spam, and I would never see it if I allowed my ISP to deal with it centrally.

    Many of the other casinos that have turned the proverbial "blind eye" to spamming campaigns now have all their legitimate mailers marked as spam by my ISP, and again I wouldn't see them if I turned the filters back on.
    In some cases, even replies from casino CS are marked as SPAM:what::what:
     
  26. Dec 20, 2007
  27. winbig

    winbig Keep winning this amount. webby PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Bum
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    am I the only one that noticed the "csinomeister best new casino 2002" part? :lolup:
     
  28. Dec 20, 2007
  29. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Didn't see that, but it's a great forensic "fingerprint" for showing that all this has come from one source, whatever domain and E-mail address is shown, or spoofed, as the sender.

    Perhaps they are afraid of spelling "Casinomeister" properly in case they have Bryan going after them for trademark infringement.

    I have also managed to connect this affiliate to some of the Grand Mondial spam, and Mario said it was one of their new games mailers and not spam when I posted the Grand Mondial version - a view he may regret now I have also posted the Spin Palace version that comes from what he claims to be one of his group's promotional mailing domain.

    It seems the line "Sorry to see you go....." appeared around the same time as the Palace Group rep said they had tried to contact the affiliate in question and could not get a reply. This is a bad move, since the addition of this line indicates the sender has recorded an unsubscribe request, and this makes this 100% spam LEGALY if they continue to be sent. There can be no doubt now that this is not an "innocent mistake", but a calculated spamming campaign designed to take advantage of the delay between being "rumbled" and eventually having their affiliate account suspended, which in this case seems to have been several months and counting.
    By not responding, the affiliate is further delaying enforcement action, as the affiliate manager seems reluctant to act until the affiliate has put in a defence statement, which I doubt he has.
     
  30. Dec 20, 2007
  31. AussieDave

    AussieDave Dodgy whacko backstabber

    Occupation:
    Gaming SEO Specialist & Casino Webmaster
    Location:
    Australia
    Hi all,

    I'm about as sick of this SPAM as everyone else.

    It's bad enough being perpetually bombarded by porn, viagra, penis pills & dodgy casinos to name a few. But, when a legit casino that I and other hold in high regard are associated to it, I draw the line.

    So everyone is aware I sent an email to Wagershare the aff program for Spin Palace. I received what could only be discribed as a generic response, (many other received the same email). Some hog wash about it being a media buy.

    Things didn't gel, so I started digging...

    I discover that the routed URL was being hosted on the Spin Palace server. With this I sent Mr Alex M of Wagershare and presented him with these finding:

    -----------------------------
    Domain Name: BIGSPINWINNERS151.COM
    Registrar: GODADDY.COM, INC.
    Whois Server: whois.godaddy.com
    Referral URL: You must register/login in order to see the link.
    Name Server: NS47.DOMAINCONTROL.COM
    Name Server: NS48.DOMAINCONTROL.COM
    Status: clientDeleteProhibited
    Status: clientRenewProhibited
    Status: clientTransferProhibited
    Status: clientUpdateProhibited
    Updated Date: 08-oct-2007
    Creation Date: 08-oct-2007
    Expiration Date: 08-oct-2008

    Answer records

    bigspinwinners151.com 1 SOA server: ns47.domaincontrol.com
    email: This email is not visible to you.
    serial: 2007100800
    refresh: 28800
    retry: 7200
    expire: 604800
    minimum ttl: 86400
    86400s
    bigspinwinners151.com 1 A 207.219.111.154 3600s
    bigspinwinners151.com 1 NS ns47.domaincontrol.com 3600s
    bigspinwinners151.com 1 NS ns48.domaincontrol.com 3600s
    bigspinwinners151.com 1 MX preference: 0
    exchange: smtp.secureserver.net
    3600s
    bigspinwinners151.com 1 MX preference: 10
    exchange: mailstore1.secureserver.net
    3600s

    bigspinwinners151.com A 207.219.111.154 207.219.0.0/16 TELUS 207 219 0 0

    hostnames sharing ip with a-records
    cabaretclub.com
    jackpotsinaflash.com
    mummysgold.net
    piggscasino.com
    piggscasino.net
    piggspoker.net
    pigscasino.net
    poker333.net
    -----------------------------------

    At that point I received a personal response from Mr Alex M (extracts of this email follows):

    "All publishers who wish to send out mailers for any of The Palace Group properties are given a 'mailing domain' to use. This is true whether the publisher be a revenue share affiliate or a media buy. This is done because when a domain is used in a mailer it invariably ends up on a blocklist regardless of whether the list is opt-in or double opt-in."

    "Without giving these seperate mailing domains it results in our main domains being blacklisted which then makes it impossible to contact our existing players with promotions etc. This is also why mailers are not available from WagerShare because a new domain is issued to every single person who wishes to send one out."

    "This is the only reason that the domain in question is on the same server as Spin Palace. I can categorically state that the email you received DOES NOT originate from Spin Palace but a media buy from the marketing department who are investigating the situation."

    Would these facts have been revealed if I'd not have dug deeper, I doubt it.

    Anyway's...The SPAM continued...At that point it was really starting to impact on my time what with trying to get the crap stopped.

    With little recourse left, I contacted a number of places about the SPAM, including eCogra (Tex who btw is looking into this matter) and both Ontario and UK government bodies regarding their anti spam laws.

    I then contacted Wagershare again, however at that point comms had deteriorated, so I sent a last ditched effort to Debbie Taylor (manager of Spin Palace), unfortunately I received no response from her either.

    Who is really responsible for this SPAM? Your call...



    Cheers

    Trezz
     
    1 person likes this.
  32. Dec 20, 2007
  33. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    This mailer is SPAM

    Unless the recipient has given explicit permission to receive these "mailers" (read spam) it's spam.

    I would advise that the Spin Palace group read up on what happened to Fortune Lounge two years ago with their spam problem and eventual fall from grace. And read up on Casinomeister's Spam policy:
    http://www.casinomeister.com/online_casino_spam.php

    By the way - that spammer better remove the reference to Casinomeister now - I mean today now. :mad:
     
    2 people like this.
  34. Dec 20, 2007
  35. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Could this be why some casinos seem unduly lax when the spam is reported to them, because they have actually paid a company to send it out.
    In the case of the media buy, were our E-mail addresses held by Palace group for our accounts also passed on to help the media company compile their mailing list.
    Certainly, while the lists may have an opt out, they were never gained by an opt-in procedure. There is a big difference in law between being sent communications by a company you have a relationship with, but passing that address information to third parties for connected marketing without permission is a different matter. In fact, under EU data protection laws it is illegal. Customers must be able to separately agree or not agree to receive promotional material from the company itself, and "selected third parties" of that company. It is not acceptable to require customers to opt in to both, or neither.
    This will come to the fore when such casino groups market into the EU (as they already do), as they will be requird to abide by EU rules, and in the case of casinos must also be licenced by a white listed juristiction. If casinos think being offshore means they can get away with it, look what happened when the US got serious about cracking down - being offshore was no comfort then.
    The UK gambling commission has a lot of staff with far less to do than was anticipated, and they will find something to do rather than face a downsizing, they have recently found time to crack down on casinos offering "foreign gambling" as prizes in promotions, even where the prize involves a foreign bricks and mortar venue, such as the world poker tournament.

    EDIT - Added spam mailer source files for Bryan.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2007
    1 person likes this.
  36. Jan 1, 2008
  37. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Have palace group sold/passed player details!

    This is a pertinrnet question. I have just received a SNAIL mail "spam", that addresses me by name and has my FULL address.
    It invites me to a special new year PERSONAL promotion for "www.spcasino.com"

    There is NO detail of the sender whatsoever, but I decided to click on this "spcasino" and lo and behold it is F***ing SPIN PALACE AGAIN!!!!

    This is beyond a joke!

    Spamming by a "rogue affiliate" is bad enough, but is seems some of these "rogue affiliates" have been handed my SNAIL mail details as well.

    Since I ALREADY have an account at Spin Palace, this is proof absolute that this does NOT come from them, but from an "affiliate" who has no idea whether the targets already have an account.

    Just like the spam, the mailshot seeks to disguise the true website by dressing it up as this "spcasino.com". There is ABSOLUTELY NO NEED FOR THIS DECEPTION, why not simply have the proper casino name featured on the mailer!

    Incidentally, since this came through the post, it is NOT "wild west" laws as on the internet. Several breaches of UK and EU law have been committed.

    1) The mailer is misleading - it seeks to disguise the entity being promoted.
    2) NO details of the sender are given.
    3) NO terms and conditions are available for this "special personalised offer" since the spoof website simply redirects to the main website, and the scratch off panel is a sham contest (also illegal) as the only possible outcome is the free $1000, which just so happens to be the new player bonus - so nothing "special" or "personal" to me.

    4) If the underlying casino has NOT been licenced by a UK "whitelisted" territory, then a further, more serious, offence has been committed.


    With no "sender" details given, legal responsibility will lie with the Palace Group as a whole, and they will have to PROVE they did not breach any laws.

    5) Depending on how my full personal details became available to the sender (if not Palace group), privacy laws may have been broken, and if the casino IS in the EU, they could be in BIG trouble.

    This leads me to conclude that our names and full postal addresses ARE INDEED being sold or transferred to third party marketing outfits, affiliates, spammers, etc by even the reputable online casinos.

    As well as having our postal details in uncontrolled foreign circulation, this could also lead us to being "shafted" by being made "personalised" offers for which we do not actually qualify, and as we know this only comes to light on withdrawal. By using disguised casino names, it can be much harder to determine whether we already have accounts that would disqualify us from the mailed offer.

    Far from doing nothing about the spam reported before Christmas, it seems the casinos have been quietly doing the opposite, stepping up these campaigns to include snailmail, as well as being unduly lenient on the internet spammers.

    I am STILL getting the e-mail spam from the "rogue affiliates" that just "need a talking to" by both Grand Mondial (and white labels) and Spin Palace. This stands out because it counts for nearly HALF the amount of casino spam, yet these are just TWO reputable casinos. The other half of the spam is from the rogues, where this sort of behaviour can be expected and little done about it.

    Complaining to the casinos, the reps here, and Bryan himself seem to have had no effect other than the casinos to say they are trying to "talk to" the affiliates concerned. Within this atmosphere of leniency the spammers are flourishing and spreading their wings.
    Clearly, there needs to be an escalation of this matter beyond the industry, including eCogra, and to the regulatory authorities who will know for sure whether the casinos could have done something about it but didn't, or whether the casinos even had a part in the problem themselves by passing our details to "marketing firms".

    Now highlighted, this problem has to be nipped in the bud NOW!!! If not, it will severely damage the industry's reputation with the various governments that are being asked to accept the industry as legitimate, rather than populated mostly by rogues.
     
  38. Jan 1, 2008
  39. Zoozie

    Zoozie Ueber Meister CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Software Developer
    Location:
    Denmark
    I also got this snail mail today and I was equally surprised. Of course I had to see what "spcasino" was and I had expected some a new Playtech rogue casino though the mail had the "Palace Group" logo.

    But why make a URL and just forward to "spin palance"? White label?
    And the offer in the mail (1 hour free slot play) was only for new customers, so why the hell then send me the mail? Someone sold me out.

    What saddens me most is that this is traced to the Palace Group which so far has been clean in my book.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2008

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