Microgaming White Label Issue

[NASHVEGAS]

You said a mouthful there Nash.

I am a,,,,,,nevermind but thanks for "letting the cat out of the bag" so to speak.

 

[Pinababy69]

Oh yes you are and spot on again. I do not want derail thread but if necessary I can post all kinds of proof regarding your assertions above.

No proof required Nash. I have seen some of the invites/comps you've received. It's part of the reason that I included that point in there.

I am a,,,,,,nevermind but thanks for "letting the cat out of the bag" so to speak.

Off to Wildcards with you, and you'd best have more than a tenner (as in ten bucks) in your hand when I get there.

Actually, I'm off to play Tomb Raider, Anniversary Edition, Playstation style. My daughter just got it yesterday, and is insisting that I come right now and play.

 

[just play]

This is going to come out wrong again, but I don't know how to word it...

Pina, when you are done finding out information, what are you going to do with it? I mean what can be done? Has other things like this happened? If so, what was the outcome?

 

[NASHVEGAS]

This is going to come out wrong again, but I don't know how to word it...

Pina, when you are done finding out information, what are you going to do with it? I mean what can be done? Has other things like this happened? If so, what was the outcome?

I will briefly respond on my opinion and then defer to the wiser.......I think the facts, truths, ramifications,etc should be exposed for all and then it becomes up to the individual to make its own decision as to whom is zooming whom or what. Other than that nothing changes immediately but evolves over time.....Most will care less just like a smoker for a maybe more extreme example. One still makes their own decision on whether one choses to smoke or not regardless of the possible effects,consequences,etc. but at least the proven cover ups (that were not exposed for many years) by all the tobacco companies of the actual effects,consequences,etc. were eventually fully exposed and thus at a minimum, one could make an informed decision based on the actual facts rather than the brainwashing covering up of facts that went on for years, JMO, not speaking for Pina to whom you addressed the question. SIDENOTE: It has already been mentioned in previous posts of the possible effects this could have on the future of US online gaming and I see no need to rehash and include again in my opinion as it is a creature of a different nature.

 

[The Dude]

I'm just beginning to catch up on this thread.

I noticed that Casino2see (gawd, what a stupid name) removed the other 2-see links. Darn, I was hoping to take someone's temperature

Quality control...hmm. Casino2see is right up there with Connect2casino, Inchilli, Casino1x2, and Joyland Casino as the stupidest named casinos - period.

I noticed the list of Naden casinos that is posted here:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

no longer includes Cherry casino (from Betson) but still includes Pharaohs and PlayersClub. These two are still Boss Media - not MGS. Perhaps this is an indication of a pending switch of software providers.

 

[Pinababy69]

This is going to come out wrong again, but I don't know how to word it...

Pina, when you are done finding out information, what are you going to do with it? I mean what can be done? Has other things like this happened? If so, what was the outcome?

I just spent 20 minutes typing a reply to you, and when I hit post, I guess the forum was down, and lost it all. One of these days I am going to learn to copy before I hit that post button.

It didn't come out wrong at all JP.

Has stuff like this happened before? Two different situations come to mind off the top of my head. One was an incident involving English Harbour Casino, and what many came to believe was cheating software. There was no dispute that the software was unfair. The majority of debate that went on was whether or not it was intentional on the part of the casino ie. deliberately cheating. Or...as they claimed, it was an error on the part of a programmer. It was one of the most viewed and discussed threads here at CM. I pretty much stayed out of that one, as I have zero technical knowledge and generally find that it's better to not comment if you don't fully understand something.

Situation two involved Jackpot Factory and their "Inspirational Stories". It related to a really sleazy marketing campaign employed by Jackpot Factory, where they basically saturated the internet with stories of how playing slots could cure depression, financial woes, thoughts of suicide, marital discord, arthritis...and so on, ad nauseum. These pages were filled with keywords that specifically targetted search engines, in an effort to gain higher rankings. It was the only time that I can remember the ENTIRE playing community uniting behind having it stopped, and a suitable "punishment" being imposed. If you ever have about two hours to kill, the thread makes an excellent read. But be prepared, it's about sixty or more pages long I think. I got very involved in that one, and spent countless hours searching the web, emailing, etc. I like to think that I helped make a difference, as did so many others.

Why do I do this and what do I hope to accomplish? I do it because it offends my sense of right and wrong. The only thing I hope to accomplish is to get to the truth (eventually) and post the facts, so that the average player can at least make an informed decision when choosing which casino to donate their money to. I am a realist, and as such, I'd guess that 95% of the player community could really care less about issues such as this (a poll may be interesting). Their main concern is are they going to get paid if they win. They don't care what goes on behind the scenes, or what marketing tactics a company uses to gain players. I spend my time digging mostly for the other 5% who do care about this stuff, but maybe who don't have the time to do it themselves.

In the end, does it really make a difference? Again, realistically, probably not. But maybe I can be a small thorn in their side for a short period of time. And if by doing that, it makes them uncomfortable enough to implement some change...I'd be ecstatic. A high profile forum such as this gets read by so many in this industry. Just because you don't see them at the bottom of the board, doesn't mean they aren't there. You'd be surprised. And I seriously doubt that they enjoy seeing their names and companies dragged through the mud.

It takes alot to get me this involved. But this one pushed all the right (or wrong) buttons. I don't like deceit and I don't like whitewash. And I especially don't like casino representatives who think they can play any of us for fools. One day they will realize that we pay their salaries, and without us, they would all be out of jobs.

I will shut up (for now anyway). I can hear the cries of "about bloody time" from here, lol.

 

[just play]

Thank you Pina, that was a perfect post...I now understand it better. I am one of those people who think one person can't make a difference, but I am beginning to think that is wrong, and one or a few people CAN make a difference.

I really appreciate you taking the time to answer me.

 

[Pinababy69]

Thank you Pina, that was a perfect post...I now understand it better. I am one of those people who think one person can't make a difference, but I am beginning to think that is wrong, and one or a few people CAN make a difference.

I really appreciate you taking the time to answer me.

No problem at all. My original post was a little more in depth than that one, but you get the point. I am not always the most pleasant person, and I know that...but if you EVER have a question about anything, feel free to ask it on the forum, or PM me if you like. If I can answer it I will. If I can't, I can probably find the answer for you. How else can you learn about this industry? IMO, there is no such thing as a stupid question.

When I started playing online 5 or 6 years ago..I knew nothing. I thought that Virtual was cool for always having all those free coupons, lol. The only way I learned was by making mistakes, and by being a pushy bitch who never knows when to shut up.

 

[jetset]

This is going to come out wrong again, but I don't know how to word it...

Pina, when you are done finding out information, what are you going to do with it? I mean what can be done? Has other things like this happened? If so, what was the outcome?

I believe that a number of elements go into the question "does publicising issues on a message board make a difference?"

First off, I definitely do believe that a forum - and particularly a widely read one like Casinomeister - can make real improvements by flagging issues and bringing about change.

I've seen proof of this frequently on the many and varied issues that have appeared here over the years, and a recent survey showed that up to 40 percent of online gamblers visit message boards for information. So the medium has reach, for sure.

There are also guys on a forum like this who are either casino reps or folks like the Meister who have wide industry contacts built up over time, and can draw their attention to matters arising here and press the issue further.

Generally speaking, I think the more reputable the company the more likely it is that something positive will happen, in many cases behind the scenes, because successful companies don't like to see their rep and future goodwill dissipated.

Sometimes these issues are not created by dishonesty and malice aforethought, but by silly mistakes that even major companies make through inadequate thought or research on a venture. Major companies or not - they're still run by people, and as we all know, people screw up occasionally.

Less reputable companies can be forced into addressing issues by the weight of public opinion and the knowledge that if enough players start blacklisting them their business will definitely suffer. And a forum is a great way of spreading the word about crappy companies.

There are inevitably those bum outfits who continue to survive by constantly attracting new and uninformed gamblers whom they can screw. Virtual comes to mind LOL!

And even software providers who are lax in their choice and monitoring of licensees are consequently smeared with the same mud. I often wonder whether these scummy operators ever ask themselves how much bigger their businesses could be if they had a good rep in addition to the flow of new and largely ignorant blood.

So, yes - I firmly believe that balanced and diverse message boards like this one are good for the industry and can effect change. And they are clearly good for the player as a source of information and the protection that knowledge brings in a largely unregulated industry that has few boundaries.

Long may it remain so.

 

[Pinababy69]

I noticed that Casino2see (gawd, what a stupid name) removed the other 2-see links.

Yep, the hard-core porno links are gone. However, the 24h support girl is still in a prone position, and ready for her next "hot sex talk" phone call. Very reminiscent of the late night phone sex tv ads for the 900 number companies. I guess if someone were at the Playboy Gaming website, this would be common fare (just guessing here), and IMO perfectly fine. However, I didn't know that this was the "image" that MG wanted to portray. I always thought that when I call a 24 hr casino support number, I'm actually gonna talk to a casino support person rather than a phone sex operator. Silly me.

 

[NASHVEGAS]

And they are clearly good for the player as a source of information and the protection that knowledge brings in a largely unregulated industry that has few boundaries.

Spot on,kudos,bravo.....enough said!

 

[Pinababy69]

Some Questions For The Playshare CEO

I see that the CEO of Playshare signed up as a member at the forum yesterday. I have no idea if he plans on making a statement or not, but if he just wanted to read, he didn't have to sign up to do that. So perhaps he will be back, and on the off chance that he will....I had a few questions that I was hoping he could answer, if he so chooses.

1. How long has this white label campaign been in the works?

2. Why does your company feel it necessary to utilize a marketing tactic such as this, when there are many people who clearly find it a deceptive form of advertising? At the very least, the way it is presented now is highly unprofessional, would you agree?

3. Why was this not announced to your player base with complete transparency as to what the campaign entailed, and how quality control of the white label brands would be monitored and enforced? An email to all of your existing players, briefly outlining what a white label is, and more importantly, a complete list of the white labels currently offered by Playshare would have been the proper route to go. In addition a link to the complete bonus terms at these white labels, would have been appropriate. Agree or disagree?

4. Why is there not more transparency on all of these sites clearly stating that they are all part of the Playshare Group? Or I guess as it will soon be called...the Mondial Group?

5. What sort of screening process is currently in place for new applicants to the program? And what sort of ongoing quality control checks will there be to ensure that the websites and their respective owners/partners present the casino in a professional manner?

6. In regards to the Casino2see site, it is pretty obvious that this particular webmaster is one who is involved in the promotion of adult material. How did this escape anyone's notice when he/she first applied for the program? If it WAS known, could they not foresee the potential problems?

7. How do you feel about your casinos being compared to the known rogue group of Virtual Casinos? Do you find this at all troubling that more than one person has made this comparison?

8. What is the problem with having your casinos promoted in the usual manner? Your group has always enjoyed a good reputation previously. Why not just continue on in the same vein? Offer the players Grand Monaco and CasinoShare on sites that are user friendly and actually offer some content that is truly valuable to the player.

9. The one most important to me personally is....how does this benefit any player in any way? There is no niche marketing, you are not catering to any specific group of players. They are clone sites plain and simple. There is no specialty involved. I definitely grasp the concept of financial gain for the casino and the affiliates promoting them, but how does it benefit the player?

10. And finally, what changes, if any, do you plan to make to the program to ensure that it is carried out in a professional manner in the future?

I don't really expect any answers, but it's worth a shot.

 

[NASHVEGAS]

I see that the CEO of Playshare signed up as a member at the forum yesterday. I have no idea if he plans on making a statement or not, but if he just wanted to read, he didn't have to sign up to do that. So perhaps he will be back, and on the off chance that he will....I had a few questions that I was hoping he could answer, if he so chooses........

6........................ If it WAS known, could they not foresee the potential problems?

Hell yeah they could forsee the potential problems (as they must have thought all players are dumb phu**cks) except for one minor problem PINA and KUDOS to you for all your hard work to prove they have grossly miscalculated..........should be fun to see the spin doctors.

 

[just play]

I always thought that when I call a 24 hr casino support number, I'm actually gonna talk to a casino support person rather than a phone sex operator. Silly me.

 

[recruit]

Here's a solution....?

With all the discussion about the White Label Casinos, some groups masquerading as others, uncertainty abounding with regard to the "legitimacy" of certain websites, casino links, etc.....why not just stick with the "tride and true" casinos that you know and trust? why take the chance?

Personally, I have a group of about 8-10 casinos (mostly Microgaming, but a few RTG thrown in) that I have played at for years, trust, and have never screwed me around. Why go looking for "new" casinos with suspicious looking sites, questionable links and shady operators? Aren't there enough credible and reputable casinos out there that have proven themselves over the years without having to seek out new ones?

I'm asking this as a genuine question...am I the only one that sticks to the known entity?

 

[aka23]

I noticed the list of Naden casinos that is posted here:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

no longer includes Cherry casino (from Betson) but still includes Pharaohs and PlayersClub. These two are still Boss Media - not MGS. Perhaps this is an indication of a pending switch of software providers.

Players Club switched to Microgaming recently. I believe it is indeed part of the Playshare group. However, Pharoahs still appears to be Boss Media. I suspect at some point in the future, Pharoahs will become the casino on the list called "Pharoahs Casino Test", which points to

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

.

 

[spearmaster]

With all the discussion about the White Label Casinos, some groups masquerading as others, uncertainty abounding with regard to the "legitimacy" of certain websites, casino links, etc.....why not just stick with the "tride and true" casinos that you know and trust? why take the chance?

Personally, I have a group of about 8-10 casinos (mostly Microgaming, but a few RTG thrown in) that I have played at for years, trust, and have never screwed me around. Why go looking for "new" casinos with suspicious looking sites, questionable links and shady operators? Aren't there enough credible and reputable casinos out there that have proven themselves over the years without having to seek out new ones?

I'm asking this as a genuine question...am I the only one that sticks to the known entity?

Well, you're doing the right thing. It's perfectly natural to stick to the tried and true.

Having said that, there is a constant stream of new players who start their online gambling and have no idea what's good and what's not. They don't have the experience you have yet - so they would be more likely to stumble into a white-label casino without any knowledge whatsoever.

Then you have those who make bonus hunting a profitable hobby - and they typically will try to find every possible casino and play to earn the bonus. While some might argue that they deserve what they get if they get burnt, I disagree. They have every right to be protected against potentially unsafe operations as well.

And, of course, there are those who seek adventure - who amongst us has been to Vegas and never explored any casino other than the one we were staying at? Couple that with the natural feeling of a player who feels that he's not lucky at one casino, so he heads for another, even if that first casino has been good to him for quite some time before.

Ask a Vegas local, and you are almost certainly going to discover that he/she never goes to the casinos that you ask about - instead, they head for certain "local casinos". The casinos on the Strip are for tourists. And tourists - well, they tour. Meister and Simmo and I did a whirlwind tour last year as well, because it was Simmo's first time - but even then Meister and I used to cruise a few different places each trip.

 

[PlayShare]

Hi all,

First and foremost we would like to thank everyone for their valuable participation in the discussion and a special thank you to Bryan, Winbig, Pinababy, Vinyl Weather Man and Slots Wizard for all their constructive comments and concerns.

Over the last few days we have worked closely with MicroGaming to define new WL rules. From now on we will be aligning our WL strategy with the strict guidelines that we and MicroGaming have set out.

It is clear from this thread, and we absolutely agree, that for any WL campaign or program to be successful the following should be taken into account:

Upfront and public announcements about the scheme and accept responsibility for the careful selection, vetting and probity checking on the applicants.
Develop strict monitoring and system controls, together with clear guidelines on what is acceptable in terms of player respect, player protection, player privacy, spam and general marketing.
If these guidelines are infringed, then there is provision to terminate the white label's casino or other necessary steps that need to be taken.
Originating brand identified on white labels
o Clearly state that PlayShare takes full responsibility and operates all the payments, operations, support for all the players.
Players and affiliates need to be assured that they will be safe and respected.
The About Us page is going to be updated as we agree it is not clear. You can see some info at www.playsharepartners.com which is a site undergoing some fast work now.
We are going to make this information such a payment processing far more accessible and more obvious to the player.


PlayShare acknowledges that there are areas for improvement in our White Label Program and we are committed to working on these areas.

I trust that you feel reassured that all your concerns are being addressed and I invite you to get in touch with me should you require anything further by using the Private Message facility at CasinoMeister. Please also see my post below that contains answers to specific questions raised in this thread.

With regards to the Cat out of the bag comment, this was said in tongue and cheek and was clearly not in good taste. However, we have been open and transparent about our White Label Program; please see below press release in CasinoMeister posted on July 3rd 2007. In Addition our partners are also openly advertised on the terms and conditions of each WL site.

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/pr-playshare-partners-with-golden-cairo.18452/


I will also during the coming weeks post updates on our progress of the above mentioned changes so you can give your input.

Best regards,

Max Wright

CEO

PlayShare Group

 

[PlayShare]

There were various concerns raised by members of this forum and they will all be taken into consideration and I would like to answer some of these here:

White label brands are cyberspace clutter

o We acknowledge that just setting up hundreds of white labels is not productive and is damaging . All new partners for the future will only set up as white labels if they have something strong to bring to the table such as an existing powerful brand.


Where does the responsibility/accountability start or end for the affiliate or casino manager and who supports the players if the white label operator is insufficiently funded or inexpert enough to go under owing players money

o PlayShare manages ALL Player funds and takes full responsibility for all purchases and cashins on behalf of the White Label
o If the White Label goes under and closes their operation then the players will continue to play on the casino and Playshare will honor any associated bets. The Player will not be compromised


This confuses players, create marketing Spam and in extreme cases lead to deceptive "multiple bonus" disqualifications

o It will always state clearly on all the WL casinos terms and conditions:
 To be eligible to receive the welcome bonus a player must have NOT received a Welcome Bonus from any casino operated by Naden which are on the following updated list:
Click here.
Note that the previous list was out of date due to the reason of holding dormant or/and test accounts
 This will also be made clearer to the player throughout the PlaySharePartner brand.

Will these clones fall under the PlayShare umbrella as pertains to eCOGRA or will they be left to fend for themselves
o We are currently not Ecogra Certified however we have decided to apply for certification and will be setting up a date for a full review in the coming months, early discussion are that we are going to go through this process in late November of this year.

What is PlayShare's stance on multiple accounts across their WL casinos? For example, if I was locked out of one casino for whatever reasons, would I still be eligible to create an account at one of their other skins? Would my winnings be voided at that skin if I were to win, and they found out I was locked out from another skin when they were processing my cash out

o Each case will need to be taken on merit however when it comes to security, there is no deviation from the pressing matter as players security is always high priority.
o The only downfall is one sign-on bonus on any one of the WL.

Best Regards

Max Wright

CEO

PlayShare Group

 

[PlayShare]

I would like to answer Pinababy69 questions made on this post

1. How long has this white label campaign been in the works?

The White Label program started development around January 2007 with White Labels first started launching in Beat around April 2007, however, many of the previously mentioned white labels were test accounts, dormant accounts or pitch accounts that we made the mistake of making public.

2. Why does your company feel it necessary to utilize a marketing tactic such as this, when there are many people who clearly find it a deceptive form of advertising? At the very least, the way it is presented now is highly unprofessional, would you agree?

I have responded to this question in my two posts above, but the main reason for the White Labels is to enter Niche Markets that would be hard to penetrate otherwise

3. Why was this not announced to your player base with complete transparency as to what the campaign entailed, and how quality control of the white label brands would be monitored and enforced? An email to all of your existing players, briefly outlining what a white label is, and more importantly, a complete list of the white labels currently offered by Playshare would have been the proper route to go. In addition a link to the complete bonus terms at these white labels, would have been appropriate. Agree or disagree?

I have to disagree on this, as there was no reason to announce this to the player base of CasinoShare or GrandMonaco as it does and will not affect them in anyway. The point of the WhiteLabel is to attract new players to our sites. However, saying this, I do agree we have not been as transparent as we could have been and are correcting this by having www.playsharepartners.com (which is being updated at the moment) making clear what the scenario is with regards to player funds and who operates these casinos. Also with regards to term and conditions, it is made clear where the player stands with regards to opening offers. However, we are going to make this easier for the player to spot as not every player actually reads the terms and conditions before playing. The player will only be affected with regards to the opening offer and all future offers will not be affected as every account is treated separately.

4. Why is there not more transparency on all of these sites clearly stating that they are all part of the Playshare Group? Or I guess as it will soon be called...the Mondial Group?

I admit that this was not as transparent as it could have been am I am going to correct this. With regards to GrandMondial, this is a rebrand of GrandMonaco, and even though operated and owned by PlayShare is separate and has no bearing on the white labels.

5. What sort of screening process is currently in place for new applicants to the program? And what sort of ongoing quality control checks will there be to ensure that the websites and their respective owners/partners present the casino in a professional manner?

Each white label applicant will go through a screening process, such as personal background check. Also PlayShare takes full responsibility for the Player so that he or she is not compromised. Also, marketing will be strictly monitored.

6. In regards to the Casino2see site, it is pretty obvious that this particular webmaster is one who is involved in the promotion of adult material. How did this escape anyone's notice when he/she first applied for the program? If it WAS known, could they not foresee the potential problems?

I admit we overlooked this and Casino2See did have link that went to a portal that further went to an Adult site. This link has been removed, and this will not occur again, where any white label links off to a site of adult nature.

7. How do you feel about your casinos being compared to the known rogue group of Virtual Casinos? Do you find this at all troubling that more than one person has made this comparison?

I can ensure you all players regardless if they play at GrandMonaco or a white label will be treated the same, and I hope players see that we are an honest casino and that we run an honest and fair organization


8. What is the problem with having your casinos promoted in the usual manner? Your group has always enjoyed a good reputation previously. Why not just continue on in the same vein? Offer the players Grand Monaco and CasinoShare on sites that are user friendly and actually offer some content that is truly valuable to the player.

The reason why we entered the white label market is to enter niche markets that we could have not entered before and certain countries that have strong barriers of entry. The plan is to partner with existing companies that have a strong brand or a unique idea to expand the group.

9. The one most important to me personally is....how does this benefit any player in any way? There is no niche marketing, you are not catering to any specific group of players. They are clone sites plain and simple. There is no specialty involved. I definitely grasp the concept of financial gain for the casino and the affiliates promoting them, but how does it benefit the player?

We have only just begun with regards to White Labels and there are some very niche marketing campaigns that are about to be released the majority of which will start to be made clear and open in late October, early November. We had only just launched and so are still at the early stages, and have already learnt some very valuable lessons. These marketing campaigns will not benefit our current players, as they are acquisition promotions to get new players on the site.

10. And finally, what changes, if any, do you plan to make to the program to ensure that it is carried out in a professional manner in the future?

This post has definitely got us thinking and given us a kick and so I am putting a lot more resources and my time to improve the white label program for the better. Over the next few days and weeks you will see changes.


Best Regards

Max Wright

CEO

PlayShare Group

 

[PlayShare]

I'm just beginning to catch up on this thread.

I noticed that Casino2see (gawd, what a stupid name) removed the other 2-see links. Darn, I was hoping to take someone's temperature

Quality control...hmm. Casino2see is right up there with Connect2casino, Inchilli, Casino1x2, and Joyland Casino as the stupidest named casinos - period.

I noticed the list of Naden casinos that is posted here:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

no longer includes Cherry casino (from Betson) but still includes Pharaohs and PlayersClub. These two are still Boss Media - not MGS. Perhaps this is an indication of a pending switch of software providers.

Hi Bryan,

The list has indeed been updated, with regards to Pharaohs and PlayersClub.

PlayersClub has already moved over to us (August 1st), and Pharaohs will move over at the end of this month.

Best Regards

Max Wright

CEO

PlayShare Group

 

[aka23]

Does anyone know if any of the other Microgaming groups beside Playshare are promoting "white label" casinos?

Jetset? Bryan? Simmo? Mario?

Any of the CM members that are webmasters... can you offer some info on this?

Where's that Jackpot Factory guy... David Brickman... maybe he can add something to this issue...

The other Microgaming groups that offer what I think of as "white labels" do so to target a specific region, rather than market as a separate casino. For example, Casino US and Casino UK.

This is quite a contrast from many other softwares. White labels are relatively common with Grand Virtual, G-Fed, Real Time Gaming, Chartwell, Wagerworks, World Gaming, Futurebet, Parlay, Total E Soft, and others.

 

[vinylweatherman]

3. Why was this not announced to your player base with complete transparency as to what the campaign entailed, and how quality control of the white label brands would be monitored and enforced? An email to all of your existing players, briefly outlining what a white label is, and more importantly, a complete list of the white labels currently offered by Playshare would have been the proper route to go. In addition a link to the complete bonus terms at these white labels, would have been appropriate. Agree or disagree?

I have to disagree on this, as there was no reason to announce this to the player base of CasinoShare or GrandMonaco as it does and will not affect them in anyway. The point of the WhiteLabel is to attract new players to our sites. However, saying this, I do agree we have not been as transparent as we could have been and are correcting this by having www.playsharepartners.com (which is being updated at the moment) making clear what the scenario is with regards to player funds and who operates these casinos. Also with regards to term and conditions, it is made clear where the player stands with regards to opening offers. However, we are going to make this easier for the player to spot as not every player actually reads the terms and conditions before playing. The player will only be affected with regards to the opening offer and all future offers will not be affected as every account is treated separately.

The problem here is that EXISTING players would STILL receive the marketing, even though the intent was to gain new players to the group. Under the earlier model, all an EXISTING player would see is a NEW MG CASINO, one they had not heard of, but because it was MG, and not something like RTG, they might very well give it a try. They would find they had problems from the outset, as they would not receive the opening offer as advertised. This should not be a problem now, but before this thread raised the issue, a problem it most certainly was.
Despite the best intentions, these white label brands are going to end up in mass marketing E-mailing campaigns (the polite term for spam). There is no reason to think otherwise, as pretty much ALL casinos appear in spam campaigns, reputable as well as rogue outfits.

Some confusion will STILL occur as previously independent casinos move over to the white label scheme. For example, PlayersClub is already known, and previously taking the bonus there, even after having had one at Pharaohs and Grand Monaco, would not be a problem. The brands are STILL well known, just changing software, but due to them not renting direct from MG, but going the white label route instead, the "one SUB per group" rule affects previously unrelated companies - to the player, it would be like finding out Grand Monaco refused an SUB because the player took one at 32Red last month With the brands that have mature white label programs, this is an ongoing source of confusion and complaints - and also an opportunity for MG to show these others the RIGHT way to run a white label partnership.
MG themselves could assist, by updating their list of all the MG casinos to indicate who owns what at both the group and white label levels.

 

[Simmo!]

This post has definitely got us thinking and given us a kick and so I am putting a lot more resources and my time to improve the white label program for the better. Over the next few days and weeks you will see changes.

Dunno about the rest of you but I find the above response(s) very encouraging. Obviously a lot of this could/should have been mapped out prior to the white labelling process, but it's good to know that Playshare recognise errors of judgement have been made and that they are listening and responding to player concerns (in depth) rather than simply burying their heads in the sand - no other names mentioned

I like the bit about only allowing white labels to be operated by people with established brands too.

Looks like Pinababy's sleuth work is having a positive & useful effect. Nice one Pina

 

[Aldebaran]

Just a thought:

all Casino XYZ white labels issue a single player number - XYZR0000001 and on registration force a click through that clearly states that this is a white label casino of XYZ brand-casino and the player number will allow access to all casinos in the group, and the sign up bonus can only be redeemed once. A welcome e-mail with a "welcome to the family" and the list again would also be helpful.

I quite like that idea: perhaps when casinowinalotofveryhappyhappiness.com runs cold I can switch effortlessly to oopswrongmovemoneygonewaytooquickcasino.com.

It would even be better if they all shared the single casino download and clicking another casino's icon would essentially be changing skins. One 900mb download serves all m'dear.

I would have no problem with this if it was a group that was accredited and I trusted. It would really appease my superstitious gambler side, those days that I just know that a blue/vegas/cocktail lounge theme will be unlucky and the magenta/ undersea theme is the one for me.

 

[winbig]

Just a thought:

all Casino XYZ white labels issue a single player number - XYZR0000001 and on registration force a click through that clearly states that this is a white label casino of XYZ brand-casino and the player number will allow access to all casinos in the group, and the sign up bonus can only be redeemed once.

That would actually defeat the purpose of white label casinos. To clear things up, as it's been mentioned before, the "parent" company of the white label casino should be prominently placed on the "About us" page, the "promotions" page and the T&C page.

However, there should be automatic safeguards in place that make it impossible for a user of xyzcasino to redeem a bonus that they have already received from the parent casino, or other white label casino from the same group. Yes, it's up to the user to make sure they haven't taken the bonus already from the same group, but hey, we're human - everyone makes mistakes. Winnings shouldn't be voided simply because someone made an unintentional mistake.

A welcome e-mail with a "welcome to the family" and the list again would also be helpful.

Great idea. A welcome letter from both the white label as well as the parent casino would be even better.

I quite like that idea: perhaps when casinowinalotofveryhappyhappiness.com runs cold I can switch effortlessly to oopswrongmovemoneygonewaytooquickcasino.com.

See comment #1 above

It would even be better if they all shared the single casino download and clicking another casino's icon would essentially be changing skins. One 900mb download serves all m'dear.

This is MG's problem, not the casino's. Until the MG programmers figure out that people HATE downloading every single game when they sign up for a new MG casino (when they already have other MG casinos installed), and every single month after the new games come out, this will not change.

I would have no problem with this if it was a group that was accredited and I trusted. It would really appease my superstitious gambler side, those days that I just know that a blue/vegas/cocktail lounge theme will be unlucky and the magenta/ undersea theme is the one for me.

Playshare is accredited. Since they are responsible for all banking and support issues for the white label's, I would trust a white label just as much as any other accredited casino.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Just a thought:

all Casino XYZ white labels issue a single player number - XYZR0000001 and on registration force a click through that clearly states that this is a white label casino of XYZ brand-casino and the player number will allow access to all casinos in the group, and the sign up bonus can only be redeemed once. A welcome e-mail with a "welcome to the family" and the list again would also be helpful.

I quite like that idea: perhaps when casinowinalotofveryhappyhappiness.com runs cold I can switch effortlessly to oopswrongmovemoneygonewaytooquickcasino.com.

It would even be better if they all shared the single casino download and clicking another casino's icon would essentially be changing skins. One 900mb download serves all m'dear.

I would have no problem with this if it was a group that was accredited and I trusted. It would really appease my superstitious gambler side, those days that I just know that a blue/vegas/cocktail lounge theme will be unlucky and the magenta/ undersea theme is the one for me.

MG software DOES actually support this. Grand Prive have a "group" account ID (your E-mail), and with this a player can choose which of the five skins they feel will be lucky for them. It MAY be that the white labels already share this property, just no-one has mentioned it yet. One way to tell with an MG casino is the account ID. Each MG has a unique set of up to 4 letters before the number that defines the source casino. Some have an optional 5th character to separate "real" and "fun" accounts, others use "F" to designate "Flash" registration, and "T" for the download (T for "Thumper", never changed despite the launch of the newer "Viper" lobby). It is possible to log into the Viper lobby with a "Flash" account, and vice versa, so it is probably possible to log into the base "Playshare" casino with one of the associated white label account numbers. If MG or Playshare have not thought of this, they had better check that this does not expose the possibility of a software "Easter Egg" similar to the minor oddity in the Grand Privvy group set-up (which does NOT give the player an advantage because the balances & bonuses are also transferred).

 

[NASHVEGAS]

Hi all,

First and foremost we would like to thank everyone for their valuable participation in the discussion and a special thank you to Bryan, Winbig, Pinababy, Vinyl Weather Man and Slots Wizard for all their constructive comments and concerns.

Over the last few days we have worked closely with MicroGaming to define new WL rules. From now on we will be aligning our WL strategy with the strict guidelines that we and MicroGaming have set out.

It is clear from this thread, and we absolutely agree, that for any WL campaign or program to be successful the following should be taken into account:

• Upfront and public announcements about the scheme and accept responsibility for the careful selection, vetting and probity checking on the applicants.
• Develop strict monitoring and system controls, together with clear guidelines on what is acceptable in terms of player respect, player protection, player privacy, spam and general marketing.
• If these guidelines are infringed, then there is provision to terminate the white label's casino or other necessary steps that need to be taken.
• Originating brand identified on white labels
o Clearly state that PlayShare takes full responsibility and operates all the payments, operations, support for all the players.
• Players and affiliates need to be assured that they will be safe and respected.
• The “About Us’ page is going to be updated as we agree it is not clear. You can see some info at www.playsharepartners.com which is a site undergoing some fast work now.
• We are going to make this information such a payment processing far more accessible and more obvious to the player.


PlayShare acknowledges that there are areas for improvement in our White Label Program and we are committed to working on these areas.

I trust that you feel reassured that all your concerns are being addressed and I invite you to get in touch with me should you require anything further by using the Private Message facility at CasinoMeister. Please also see my post below that contains answers to specific questions raised in this thread.

With regards to the “Cat out of the bag” comment, this was said in tongue and cheek and was clearly not in good taste. However, we have been open and transparent about our White Label Program; please see below press release in CasinoMeister posted on July 3rd 2007. In Addition our partners are also openly advertised on the terms and conditions of each WL site.

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/pr-playshare-partners-with-golden-cairo.18452/


I will also during the coming weeks post updates on our progress of the above mentioned changes so you can give your input.

Best regards,

Max Wright

CEO

PlayShare Group

Everyone makes mistakes and you deserve the opportunity to correct them but I repeat via a cut & paste from a previous post: "I want to see actions not meaningless words,promises or even opinions. I am the player damnit who financially supports those spitting out all these meaningless(imo) words,etc." You have only taken the first step, ultimately time and actions will determine if your posts are actually meaningful as your obvious numerous mismanagement mistakes of W/L's(sidenote:still not sure I buy the concept) to date give one the right to be a cynic for now. I do appreciate your willinginess to face the gladiators,LOL.

 

[Simmo!]

sidenote:still not sure I buy the concept

I'm with you on that one.

However where I see there is an opportunity here is if the "affiliate" can choose certain options for the white label that differentiate it. For example, I'd love to set up my own MG white label and have a casino where there was no sign up bonus, a better loyalty/VIP scheme, reduced reverse times and unique competitions/tournies. However, this would cause more work for the casino and of course require evaluation, so it may not prove practical.

But this sort of thing would be different enough to justify a white label IMO.

 

[NASHVEGAS]

I'm with you on that one.

However where I see there is an opportunity here is if the "affiliate" can choose certain options for the white label that differentiate it. For example, I'd love to set up my own MG white label and have a casino where there was no sign up bonus, a better loyalty/VIP scheme, reduced reverse times and unique competitions/tournies. However, this would cause more work for the casino and of course require evaluation, so it may not prove practical.
But this sort of thing would be different enough to justify a white label IMO.

I think you want a new casino not a W/L What would you chose to name your new casino? I am sure you will welcome suggestions in my soon to be new Wildcard thread.

 

[winbig]

I think you want a new casino not a W/L What would you chose to name your new casino? I am sure you will welcome suggestions in my soon to be new Wildcard thread.

www.bluemuppetcasino.com sounds good to me.

 

[mrracetrack]

Jetset wrote what I consider a very good and informative report on this "White Label" issue. It can be read in the Casinomeister News section.

Here is a direct link...

https://www.casinomeister.com/stati...ews2/WHITE-LABEL-PROJECT-COMES-UNDER-FIRE.php

Nice job, Jetset. ​

​

 

[Pinababy69]

For Max Wright

Hi Max,

Thank you for taking the time to come here and address concerns, and answer questions. And thank you for being humble enough to admit to the errors that you/your company have made.

With regards to the “Cat out of the bag” comment, this was said in tongue and cheek and was clearly not in good taste. However, we have been open and transparent about our White Label Program; please see below press release in CasinoMeister posted on July 3rd 2007. In Addition our partners are also openly advertised on the terms and conditions of each WL site.

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/pr-playshare-partners-with-golden-cairo.18452/

Definitely in poor taste, but your acknowledgement of that is fair enough.

I would agree that you have been open and transparent with your affiliates and partners. What you have to understand is that probably at least 90% of the general playing community have no idea what a white label casino is, or at least had no idea. They would read that press release and just take it to mean that you were opening a new casino, or taking over an existing one. It does not make clear that you were planning on partnering up with affiliates/webmasters, and that in the near future there would be MANY of these sites popping up.

Your partners are clearly listed on each WL site? Well yes, but my point is that no one reaches that list of partners until they actually stumble onto one of these sites. I wouldn't expect the CEO of a company to come to a forum and keep everyone updated, however Mario is a frequent contributor here and could easily have posted a list of these Playshare partners, and ask Bryan to edit the post/add to the list, as more partners are added (or removed). Make it a sticky thread. At least it would be a point of reference that people could check prior to playing at one of these places. And it offers complete transparency in regards to your business practices, as they relate to the player in general.

o We are currently not Ecogra Certified however we have decided to apply for certification and will be setting up a date for a full review in the coming months, early discussion are that we are going to go through this process in late November of this year.

o The only downfall is one sign-on bonus on any one of the WL.

I'm not sure if eCOGRA certification is a good or bad thing for a company who plans to focus on marketing in this manner. I see lots of potential headaches and problems. Yes, the parent company will carry the Seal..but the white label brands will not. Where does this leave the player who DOES run into problems? If they play at Grand Monaco or CasinoShare, they'll have a dispute channel to follow up on. If they play at a white label, they are on their own. This is "assuming" of course that the Seal does not extend to the white label product.

The only downfall? I tend to disagree, but I'll address that as it is pretty major, and actually goes hand in hand with my paragraph above. It doesn't matter how many times, or in how many places, you post this "list" of Playshare partners....there are going to be those people who don't read it, or who just don't understand it. They will open a new account, deposit and play, and attempt to claim their signup bonus. You WILL have problems, and that is a guarantee. Is the claim process an automated one, or does it go through support? What if someone mistakenly falls through the cracks, due to technical or human error, and the bonus is granted? Player plays, player wins, player's cashout is denied. Major problems. All I can say is time will tell.

2. I have responded to this question in my two posts above, but the main reason for the White Labels is to enter Niche Markets that would be hard to penetrate otherwise

3. I have to disagree on this, as there was no reason to announce this to the player base of CasinoShare or GrandMonaco as it does and will not affect them in anyway. The point of the WhiteLabel is to attract new players to our sites.

However, we are going to make this easier for the player to spot as not every player actually reads the terms and conditions before playing.

4. With regards to GrandMondial, this is a rebrand of GrandMonaco, and even though operated and owned by PlayShare is separate and has no bearing on the white labels.

8. The reason why we entered the white label market is to enter niche markets that we could have not entered before and certain countries that have strong barriers of entry. The plan is to partner with existing companies that have a strong brand or a unique idea to expand the group.

9. These marketing campaigns will not benefit our current players, as they are acquisition promotions to get new players on the site.

10. This post has definitely got us thinking and given us a kick and so I am putting a lot more resources and my time to improve the white label program for the better. Over the next few days and weeks you will see changes.

2. I'm starting to find these claims of "niche" markets a bit much. Maybe when the program is in full swing, I'll better understand what you're trying to sell. I'm still not getting the concept of why you have to allow affiliates a casino of their own. Let's use Bryan's example of Mexican Ranchers. Is it not the affiliate's responsibility to gear his/her website to Mexican Ranchers? The Ranchers eventually end up at that website through a Google search or whatever. Why can that site not just have affiliate banners for Grand Monaco and CasinoShare? You are still getting your new players (the Mexican Ranchers), but you are getting them through your existing casinos?

I don't have a business degree, but it seems to me that if your goal is to attract Mexican Ranchers, then find affiliates who specialize in that area, and have them promote your existing brands. What is the purpose of allowing each and every one of these "specialty" websites a casino/brand of their own? Again, I see the incentive for the affiliate. I still DO NOT see the benefit to the player. I'm afraid I'm starting to sound like a broken record.

3. We'll have to agree to disagree on this point. I think that everything your company does, affects all your players, new and old. And I think that all casino employees, from support right up to Executive Level, would be well served to remember that we pay your salaries...as we do those of affiliates and webmasters alike. Think of us little people as shareholders in your company.

As to making it easier for the player to spot the T&C's, I'm going to hold you to that one. And you are right, not everyone reads all the terms even though they should. Ultimately, it is the player's responsibility to be clear on what is allowed and what isn't, but the casinos should not be deliberately creating potential problems. So additional clarity would be most welcome.

4. I'll have to get someone with more business savvy than me, to explain this to me...about the whole Playshare/Grand Mondial/Naden thing. I can't quite wrap my head around it, but it almost sounds like "segregation" of certain business assets within your company. Certain accounts held within one company, others held by another branch. If that sounds stupid, it may very well be...as I said, I'm not business wiz. But then, that's why I'm not the CEO of a million dollar company and you are.

8. Again with the niche markets thing, although this time we have a bit more of a clue re: the countries that are hard to enter. Anyone wish to hazard a guess as to which countries he's referring to? And I really doubt it's Mexican Ranchers. Again, we'll see where these websites/white labels lead in the future.

9. Thank you. Now we're getting somewhere. It's a start. Although it remains to be proven how these white labels will benefit even new players. But I certainly see the financial benefits for the company.

10. If you are sincere, then I am very glad to hear that.

Again Max, thank you for taking the time to answer each and every one of my questions. Please don't take any of my replies as confrontational, they are meant as food for thought only. Your public participation in this thread is greatly appreciated, at least by myself.

 

[Pinababy69]

Jetset wrote what I consider a very good and informative report on this "White Label" issue. It can be read in the Casinomeister News section.

Here is a direct link...

https://www.casinomeister.com/stati...ews2/WHITE-LABEL-PROJECT-COMES-UNDER-FIRE.php

Nice job, Jetset. ​

​

First of all, kudos to Bryan for making this subject the topic of his latest newsletter, and including a link to this thread, thus giving it the visibility that (IMO) it richly deserves.

I just reread Jetset's report, as I had only glanced at it this morning. All I can say is WOW!! That is true journalism at its finest, and to put it in the simplest terms possible....telling it like it is. No whitewash or pretty words there, just facts and the straight poop.

Jetset....big thumbs up to you. :notworthy

 

[NASHVEGAS]

First of all, kudos to Bryan for making this subject the topic of his latest newsletter, and including a link to this thread, thus giving it the visibility that (IMO) it richly deserves.

I just reread Jetset's report, as I had only glanced at it this morning. All I can say is WOW!! That is true journalism at its finest, and to put it in the simplest terms possible....telling it like it is. No whitewash or pretty words there, just facts and the straight poop.

Jetset....big thumbs up to you.

PB69, your next mission is to find the always non responsive MG(my personal experiences only), then it is on to Bin Laden since the US doesn't have the ability it appears.

 

[jetset]

Thanks for your comments, but I have to correct myself.

The story on Mr Racetrack's link was the original report before the CEO of Playshare came here and gave what I felt was a wide ranging and unsparing response to the many good posts in this thread.

But news is a dynamic process, and after reading Max Wright's posts here we issued an update in order to add his answers to specific questions and his statement on the issue as a whole. This was only fair, as in the original report we indicated that a statement was still awaited.

This is at the foot of the headlines here:

https://www.casinomeister.com/gambling-news/

It starts with the cross-head "The other side of the coin...." and pretty much recaps what the Playshare CEO said with commendable candour in his posts here.

Bottom line is that the issue has been studied and is being addressed, which is imo a positive start to a process that I'm sure we will all be watching with interest.

 

[GrandMaster]

Buy saying this we would like to make you aware that we will not prohibit anyone from opening up more than on WL account but we do make it quite clear on the terms and conditions that you would only get on sign-up offer on the WL program. (This does excludes CasinoShare and Grand Monaco)

How will a player know this and where can the player find the current list of your white label casinos? This should feature prominently in the T&C but I did not see it anywhere. What happens if a player signs up at one casino, then at another, using a different e-mail address? It can happen quite innocently. I can see a lot of potential problems here.

 

[aka23]

A simple way to minimize problems is to clearly display a "Powered by ..." statement on the home page, then add a corresponding statement in the T&C, like the one used by VC Casino whitelabels:

"This offer is only open to Victor Chandler Worldwide customers who are yet to play at any Victor Chandler Casino or partner site. A partner site is any Casino that carries the logo Powered by Victor Chandler."

 

[NASHVEGAS]

Was it Einstein who said the only difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits????????

 

[aussiekeith]

This white label concept can be a minefield for players, software providers and licensees alike, and if not strictly controlled at (software provider) level can lead to serious damage to player trust and company reputations, in my view.

Cheapass clones can, as Pina has already pointed out, confuse players, create marketing spam and in extreme cases like the Virtual group lead to deceptive "multiple bonusing" disqualifications.

And who supports the players if the white label operator is insufficiently funded or inexpert enough to go under owing players money?

If the white label system is not strictly policed, unprofessional and cheap looking sites using the software provider's games can make the provider look bad and cheap, too.

If the white label operator is not sufficiently supervised or experienced, he or she may do things to players that lack integrity and will prejudice the players and therefore adversely impact the business of the software provider and the licensee behind the white label.

The way I see it, the only way a legitimate white label scheme can work properly is if the software provider and licensee wishing to get into white labeling are upfront about their scheme and accept equal responsibility for the careful selection, vetting and probity checking on the applicants.... then develop strict monitoring and system controls, together with clear guidelines on what is acceptable in terms of player respect, player protection, player privacy and general marketing.

And if these guidelines are infringed, then there has to be provision to "pull" the white label's plug. To do otherwise is to invite anarchy imo, with "casinos" using solid and reputable software but run by inexperienced clowns running riot with questionable marketing and management techniques.

Unless white labeling is carefully controlled it can become a monster that devours player trust and does the industry no favours either.

I totally agree, there is a big problem with these White Label Casinos.
Personally I was receiving emails from all these places which lead me to a casino with rather boring web pages, I may add and It tried to make me download the casino almost everywhere that I clicked on the page, so I did and found out they were actually Casinos from the Grand Prive Group , which I already had anyway. I was receiving these, great new casino deals from every email address that I have.
Now I do not play at Grand Prive Group anymore because of this constant spam that went on for many weeks.
Finally it seems to have stopped.
I think this way of marketing is certainly bad if it is deceitfully done by advertising a casino with a name and when you download it, it has a completely different name. Its opening up a big Spam issue problem and in my view, I have to ask, how desperate is a well known casino group if they have to have all these White Label Casinos, to promote them ?
Keith.

 

[aka23]

I totally agree, there is a big problem with these White Label Casinos.
Personally I was receiving emails from all these places which lead me to a casino with rather boring web pages, I may add and It tried to make me download the casino almost everywhere that I clicked on the page, so I did and found out they were actually Casinos from the Grand Prive Group , which I already had anyway. I was receiving these, great new casino deals from every email address that I have.
Now I do not play at Grand Prive Group anymore because of this constant spam that went on for many weeks.
Finally it seems to have stopped.
I think this way of marketing is certainly bad if it is deceitfully done by advertising a casino with a name and when you download it, it has a completely different name. Its opening up a big Spam issue problem and in my view, I have to ask, how desperate is a well known casino group if they have to have all these White Label Casinos, to promote them ?
Keith.

I don't think those are White Label Casinos. That is affiliate spam. An affiliate (or maybe several affiliates) is making proxy websites in which all links download an existing casino, then sending spam promoting those proxy websites as new casinos. This affiliate is making these sites for many casino groups, including Grand Prive.

 

[winbig]

I don't think those are White Label Casinos. That is affiliate spam. An affiliate (or maybe several affiliates) is making proxy websites in which all links download an existing casino, then sending spam promoting those proxy websites as new casinos. This affiliate is making these sites for many casino groups, including Grand Prive.

Actually, these are rogue affiliates. They have hit Casino Partners, CPays, Affibucks (Rushmore), Jupiter Club, and many others in the past, and present. I, and others here and on other forums, have had good luck with getting these affiliate accounts shut down for good.

Problem is, as soon as their accounts are shut down, they move on to another group.

The only group that drug their feet with shutting down these spammers was Cpays. CPays is the affiliate program for 32Vegas, Eurogrand, Amber Coast, Joyland, etc....almost half of the Rogue Pit right there!

 

[lojo]

Actually, these are rogue affiliates. They have hit Casino Partners, CPays, Affibucks (Rushmore), Jupiter Club, and many others in the past, and present. I, and others here and on other forums, have had good luck with getting these affiliate accounts shut down for good.

Problem is, as soon as their accounts are shut down, they move on to another group.

The only group that drug their feet with shutting down these spammers was Cpays. CPays is the affiliate program for 32Vegas, Eurogrand, Amber Coast, Joyland, etc....almost half of the Rogue Pit right there!

We've seen it for some time. 'mint' and 'vip' etc. I did one of the first calls and no one paid much attention to VWM or Simmo when it came up in response, but they were on the look out and reported it to the community.

There is no need for white labels, period. If the Industry feels the need to scatter their liabilities like that: it is over - stick a fork in their ass and turn them over.

I call Bullshit. There are four or five brands available to US players from their homes, and at least three of them have co-opted themselves. Punks. The so-called white label bullshit is a reaction to market force.

Boycott all who go down that path.

This issue goes deeper and into the past; before the dojfux there was cr and before that.... My point is, that when casinos become groups they lose the ability to respond to the player. Bryan said it perfectly in the newsletter <sic> 'Casinos are in the business of serving their customer'

They seem to have forgotten this simple fact.

I'll call on the players here to put your money where you mouth is and boycott all spam casinos (now I know why winbig doesn't like spam)

The major players here won't stand up- straight up- and condemn the practice of re-labeling casinos. I think they should.

gfed2


Billions of dollars in Microgaming

feck rtg and the *** they rode in on

What happened to the market place? It is not about some backward dummy with pull. It is a money market, pure and simple.
I just want to see something more than competion for hierarchy I want diversity

 

[swampwitch]

This gets sadder and sadder.

There's nothing wrong with the white label branding...per se.
However, the problem has to do with how it is marketed.

I remember when I first got online. There were all thse "Virtual" casinos. Newbies, including myself, didn't understand about software differences...one got the impression that "Virtual" was a software brand...not RTG. People opened up all kind of accounts that downloaded as "Virtual", but they were under the impression they were opening accounts at different casinos. It wasn't until they would try to cash out that they were hit with the "one account, one bonus" rule. How were they to know?

I understand the reason for "niche" marketing...but how freaking hard is it to
require licensees/affiliates to list the casinos that are in the group, and to boldly list whether or not a person who already has an account with a casino on the list should or should not claim a new account bonus?

It's that kind of vague bullshit that screws players over, and keeps the all-casinos-are-liars-and-all-bonus-whores-are-vistims advocates going.

As far as the whole "gambling and porn goes hand in hand" bullshit that some white label owners will try to pull, I'll say the same thing I posted in that "evil" place that MrR and Pina and I, etc love so much...

Porn and gambling going hand in hand....Actually, the illegal side of both do. The mob run side. The small-time hood side. In that context, one can say that porn and gambling and heroin and extortion and illegal prostitution go hand in hand (in hand, etc.).

As far as the legitimate, legal side....sex and gambling go hand in hand. Big distinction between sex and gambling, and porn and gambling.

I feel sorry for the greedy asshole affiliates who can't see the distinction.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I don't think those are White Label Casinos. That is affiliate spam. An affiliate (or maybe several affiliates) is making proxy websites in which all links download an existing casino, then sending spam promoting those proxy websites as new casinos. This affiliate is making these sites for many casino groups, including Grand Prive.

An obvious conclusion, but no longer! With white label schemes, how are players to tell the difference between a legitimate white label and a rogue affiliate. When this matter was first raised, it was the "rogue affiliate" explanation that first appeared for the sudden proliferation of the Playshare white labels. Worse, the legitimacy of MG white labels provides a smokescreen for these rogue affiliates, making them harder to spot (they just redesign their "mint" site to look like a legitimate white label for whatever casino downloads.

The argument about "niche markets" has a flaw. MG recently introduced the language pack option, so it is now possible to give players the casino in their own language WITHOUT the need to go down the white label route. Players download the core casino, and then select their desired language pack. MARKETING websites can be used to download lobbies with the language defaulted to the most likely local language (rather than English as at present).
After language packs, MG could release optional "skins" that players choose themselves and download - the same as some other software such as media players. To attack a niche market, as with language packs, a different "skin" could be set as the default.
In the Mexican Ranchers example, Grand Mondial would be the core casino, however when downloaded from a website targeting Mexican Ranchers, the language pack default would be Mexican (or something close if Mexican was not available), and the default "skin" would be a Mexican theme, one that would appeal to Ranchers. With this set up, all the arguments presented for white labelling can be satisfied without having a full blown white label operation. This would alleviate the consequent confusions as to what casino is being played, and what bonuses are still applicable to the new account.



(Big words for a Sunday Morning - I must have had a dictionary for breakfast)

 

[lojo]

SW, there are affiliates of integrity, we can assume. There is market force and we are seeing the fallout of it.

 

[lojo]

Simple: Casinos serve customers. The times, they are a changing.
Do the casinos serve the customer under the new (assumed) bullshit and cut out the so called affiliate? Or simply create more layers of confusion, You have to know, that few players believed that affilliates were partners, but more like employees, people paid by casinos.

How will you represent the player in all matters and accost the casino? How will you represent the casino and accost all players under the 'new' system.

It is the fault of greedy fux that they would feel the need to go over your heads, as affiliates, or it is something sick and twisted in the money game itself. Where do you stand, or do you?

 

[lojo]

(Big words for a Sunday Morning - I must have had a dictionary for breakfast)

VWM, please don't play both sides of the market . Do you have an opinion? I do. Maybe this thing will blow away, I don't think so. And i really don't think anyone here will have a say in it. We can get used to it or they can change their ways. It is simply marketing. Can you make a difference? Do you care? It isn't commentary it is taking a side.

I wish a list to boycot.

Thank you.

 

[swampwitch]

And again we have the tarring of all affiliates as evil.

Horseshit.

Not all affiliates are evil. Any affiliate who starts a white label absolutely SHOULD have the balls to be aboveboard and show on the website itself what other casino(s) fall under the umbrella..and post on the website the absolute and definitive signup and bonus rules as they pertain to that white label and how it concerns the other casino(s). If they don't....yep, greedy evil jerkwads.

The casinos who allow the white lables should enforce the above. Period. If they don't, then they're inviting players to lose when they win. And I don't mean put the rules in teeny print on a page that has nothing to do with rules of any sort.

Great christ on a poll...can we just please stop with the affiliate bashing? Some of us affiliate/webmaster types are so clean we squeak. So quit the generalities.

At leadt use the word "some". Hell, I'd settle for "most". Just zip the "all".

 

[lojo]

And again we have the tarring of all affiliates as evil.

Horseshit.

Not all affiliates are evil. Any affiliate who starts a white label absolutely SHOULD have the balls to be aboveboard and show on the website itself what other casino(s) fall under the umbrella..and post on the website the absolute and definitive signup and bonus rules as they pertain to that white label and how it concerns the other casino(s). If they don't....yep, greedy evil jerkwads.

The casinos who allow the white lables should enforce the above. Period. If they don't, then they're inviting players to lose when they win. And I don't mean put the rules in teeny print on a page that has nothing to do with rules of any sort.

Great christ on a poll...can we just please stop with the affiliate bashing? Some of us affiliate/webmaster types are so clean we squeak. So quit the generalities.

At leadt use the word "some". Hell, I'd settle for "most". Just zip the "all".

It ain't horseshit baby, and I didn't tar you. I believe it can be an honorable line of work. I deal with land maggots every day (realtors) and other less than honorable sorts. All I ask is that an affiliate honor the player equally; that is 50/50 and treat the player as well as they treat the casino: we are both your benefactors under the old model.
The new model... dig it we're all fexed.