Message to Rival White Label Casinos!

oldtrvlagt

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 31, 2007
Location
Iowa
Great post Rob....it reinforces what players have been saying for months and in particular since the first of the year. They have gone from bad to worse. It is a shame though that none of the other Affiliates have spoken out on a known issue.

Keep at it:thumbsup::thumbsup:
 

jod5413

Is That Better?
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Location
somewhere on the planet
Thanks Nifty and all you other guys here too who posted. I certainly appreciate all of the kind comments and support.

It's really a sad day in casino land when one lone affiliate has to make a post like that in order to try and capture the attention of a software provider and the many white label casinos under their roof that so many of us here promote. But so be it, if I am the only affiliate to make a stance against these Rival White Labels and their piss poor service to the player and affiliate community then I guess I will just have to deal with it, won't be the first time I've played the Lone Ranger role and I'm sure it won't be the last either.

I admire what you are saying here, Rob. But there are others who are giving up on the white labels, putting them at the bottom of the page and some are even putting not recommended on these White Label Casinos.

Andy though over at AGD has joined in to the conversation there and has offered up good support, so he also deserves kudos as well.

Andy has been "fighting the good fight" since this industry started, and has always been one of the most intelligent and honest guys in the biz.

At least we have had one casino rep post here and there, thanks Tradition. That's more than we can say for all of the Rival Affiliates who have viewed this thread but for whatever reason did not want to take an active role in it and participate...sad, sad, sad. What else can you say. :rolleyes:

This statement bothers me, Rob. I have watched quite a few casino reps and affiliates get run off this forum, and not all of them were "bad guys working bad casinos". I believe it is very draining to to be in their shoes, they try their best and even when wrong a lot of them apologize and keep on trying. They are not all uncaring, but many are not taught enough to be able to do their jobs.

Tradition has a lot of spunk to even post here after the horrible time so many of us gave her. A few other decent reps were unfairly run off. I'm sure you can all remember at least a couple of these situations.
.


When I first became an affiliate I promised myself that I would not let this industry putrefy me or blur my vision on what I had always believed could be a fair role to play between promoting the casinos and also being a player advocate as well and standing up for the right thing to be done for the players by the casinos. I do not intend for that mindset to ever change.
To tell you the hard core truth though, I might as well just be pissing into the wind judging by the response here or should I say, the lack of response by other Rival Casino Affiliates here.


Rob, everyone here knows you are a pit bull as a newer affiliate for players rights. Hopefully you will keep at it. But please don't think you are alone. You are not, my friend.

And I think you will find that many of us, players and affiliates, agree with you. Time, patience, and keeping your goals posted on the front page everywhere, and others try to help, if only to say "thanks for taking care of us".

____

And these are my tiny little thoughts. Oh yeah, pissing into the wind gets old, I know. Here's a helpful hint.....turn around!!!:cool:

Jod
 
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RobWin

closed account
Joined
Apr 24, 2004
Location
A Vault!
OK, it now looks like we have an official word from Rival Gaming regarding the slow payments and all. Tradition Casino got in contact with Rival Gaming and got us some answers, so a big thanks to Tradition Casino for stepping up and doing this.

This is what was posted at AGD just awhile ago....

Hi,

Here is the answers to your questions:

Rival operators audit their own affiliate payments, this includes "White Labels". Rival's white label partner, Bonne Chance NV will process the payments on behalf of the operator only after such time that an operator approves the payment. Operators (WL and Standard), are fully responsible for their own affiliate payments, Bonne Chance NV has no financial interests in the amounts or style of commission paid to the affiliate.

Rival does not financially benefit from any decision made on progressive deductions, bad deposits or seizures. Though most online casinos in the industry do apply such a deduction, Rival asked its operators to consider all the recent issues and provide their desired solution so that Rival could technically implement it. Each operator will decide how they want to deal with each issue, it is not a Rival decision nor does Rival benefit from any decision(s) made.


Player payments are processed based on the protocols set forth by each operator. Each operator has varying protocols that are adhered to by the processing team at Bonne Chance NV. These protocols range from types of document requests, days spent in reversal period or player class. I am unaware of any overall delays in player processing but I am aware of some outstanding operator delayed affiliate payments. It's operator delayed, not Rival delayed. They must be still reviewing them. Nothing to do with Rival.

Processor Seizures: The US facing gaming industry is a risky environment. Prominent industry processors had funds seized by Mastercard. This was US gaming industry wide. Any operator that allows US customers should have experienced challenges recently. The processors are currently negotiating fines and there is a chance some funds will be recovered. This is a work in progress.

Checks: Check payments were initiated by a processor in Germany that had ties to banks in the US. The checks would post as completed but no more information was provided by the processor. The American counter-part ended up being investigated by authorities and of course some checks weren't honored. Obtaining this information was a challenge and there were some delays with player withdrawals affected by this. There was no way to verify whether a check was cashed or not.

Processors: Rival has a team dedicated to integrating new APIs, but processors are sometimes slow to respond to integration related questions. It may sometimes take 1-2 days for each question to get answered. Rival has been working with important processors for both the EU and US market but it sometimes takes many days to get simple questions answered. Processor integrations rarely go smoothly. This is a top priority for both Rival and its operators, Rival has no reason to delay processor integrations.

Lastly, I would like to mention that many posts on the forum blame Rival directly though many (if not all) of the issues posted are related to decisions made by its operating partners. Affiliates should know that Rival is a software provider and does not control its operators protocols.

Warm regards,

**Rival Gaming**



My Summary: So going by what Rivals response was to the player slow payments it now appears that it has actually not been Rival's fault after all, but rather the individual "White-Label Casinos" running on the Rival Software. As Rival states above, the individual casinos have Carte Blanche authority and full discretionary power to place whatever protocols and choices they so decide to make player payments and that affects how fast each one pays it's players.

And judging by that last bold-ed statement there by Rival Gaming, it seems they are taking the Microgaming approach as they state they are only the software provider.

So maybe this thread has not been a waste of time after all, at least we now have a clearer picture on how the White-Label Rival Casinos can operate!
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tradition

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Location
malta
:) I posted this message only on AGD because i thought that it was especially dedicated to affiliates, not to players.

Players have simply to understand that some WL are continuying to pay fastly and never changed their operating use, what i already precised in this thread few days ago :)
 

AussieDave

Banned User
Joined
Dec 24, 2005
Location
Australia
It's all about Open and Honest and Clear Communication Rival

When we remove everything else it comes down to a few simple business practices...Open, Honest and Clear Communications.

Honesty relates directly to trust. Without it what have you got?

In the case of Rival and their white labels you've got a lot of players facing a world of crap every time they make a withdrawal.

In addition, peeps like Rob and other responsible webmasters who watch out for players, who are open, honest and clear, are having their livelihoods, the food from their table, taken before it is even served.

Rival and their white labels are incompetent goofs. The total lack of respect for players, and many other major screw ups proves one thing...They can't be Honest in their dealings and they should be kicked to the curb.

Time to find the couple of Rivals I have scattered over my 30 odd sites and yank their banners and links.



Cheers

:)

Dave
 

RobWin

closed account
Joined
Apr 24, 2004
Location
A Vault!
:) I posted this message only on AGD because i thought that it was especially dedicated to affiliates, not to players.

Players have simply to understand that some WL are continuying to pay fastly and never changed their operating use, what i already precised in this thread few days ago :)

Yes Tradition, you are paying fast if you get your players paid within 48 hours. That is absolutely great and you should be commended for that. Keep up that great service and you will gain a hell of a lot of players at your casino and they will more importantly be "Happy Players"...:thumbsup:
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chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
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Location
SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
:) I posted this message only on AGD because i thought that it was especially dedicated to affiliates, not to players.

Players have simply to understand that some WL are continuying to pay fastly and never changed their operating use, what i already precised in this thread few days ago :)

Thanks for clarifying. However, I dont really see any WL casinos paying within 1-2 business days and the centralised live support continues to make reference to the 2-5 day withdrawal rule. Wasnt this written or at least recommended by Rival. I understand that Rival recommends the playthru for bonuses so that's where you got such ridiculous terms although each casino has the authority to alter them.

OK, Tradition aside, can players post their experiences at WL casinos lately where they were paid in 48 hours so that we can try to gauge Tradition's statement.

# I havent deposited at a WL casino for over a month and even then it took me nearly 2 weeks to get paid.
 

AussieDave

Banned User
Joined
Dec 24, 2005
Location
Australia
Players have simply to understand

With all due respect players don't have to understand anything.

You need to understand that most Rival white labels have been kicking their players in the guts with insane delays to payments and general scalawag behaviour for ages.

If some White Labels are maintaining a fast pay-out protocol, that's great.

In hindsight this seems to be the modus operandi of new Rival white labels. Least until they're established, then the delayed payments start.

If your casino is still paying people within industry accepted time frames in 12 months time then your words will mean something.




Cheers

:)

Dave
 

KasinoKing

WebMeister & Slotaholic..
webmeister
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OK, Tradition aside, can players post their experiences at WL casinos lately where they were paid in 48 hours so that we can try to gauge Tradition's statement.
Why not post a poll in the Online Casinos section to see how long players are waiting?
(You'd need to exclude Sloto & Box 24 from the voting).

KK
 

tradition

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Location
malta
KK, it can be a good idea if it's precised as below:

"How long did you wait for your withdrawal, once security documents are sent and accepted?"

This precision is essential because all Rival casinos enforced our security attitude due to chargebacks we have had last weeks. So it's regular now to request documents showing all last credit card deposits signed by player himself before to proceed his cashout, even if this player has had past successfull withdrawals.
 

dcpam39

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Joined
Nov 12, 2006
Location
East Coast
This precision is essential because all Rival casinos enforced our security attitude due to chargebacks we have had last weeks. So it's regular now to request documents showing all last credit card deposits signed by player himself before to proceed his cashout, even if this player has had past successfull withdrawals.

Thanks for this info, i asked the question on another thread regarding why security documents were being asked by rivals for each casino, and never received an answer.

It is good that RobWin posted on this site what was posted on the affliate website. How affliates are treated is a reflection of (the perception of) how players are treated.


It is obvious to me that the Rivals paying in 5 days plus need a float to pay out withdrawals, no different than when people could "float" checks, :). I am not willing to risk my funds at a casino that is "one paycheck" away from disaster.

Pam
 

Nifty29

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Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
KK, it can be a good idea if it's precised as below:

"How long did you wait for your withdrawal, once security documents are sent and accepted?"

This precision is essential because all Rival casinos enforced our security attitude due to chargebacks we have had last weeks. So it's regular now to request documents showing all last credit card deposits signed by player himself before to proceed his cashout, even if this player has had past successfull withdrawals.

Actually, in the case of a regular player who has withdrawn previously, an email should be sent asking for a faxback form that must be submitted before the next withdrawal and not the current one. All it amounts to is an inconvenience and delay for honest players, and it is widely known that all the faxbacks in the world wont stop someone charging back if they really want to. I was told by a casino manager once that casinos seldom succeed in recovering the funds lost.

Another way would be to send an email immediately the player makes a withdrawal request asking for a faxback. In that way, there should be no delay - if the security people cant get it approved etc in 2 days then there is something seriously wrong.

The main problem players are having with these 'security requests' is that they are being asked for 4-5 bus days after the pending period, and then they are made to wait another 4-5 bus days to get paid.....this nonsense has to stop!!

I would love to hear from some CM members who have been paid by Tradition within 48 hours over the past month too, just so we can see it for ourselves.
 

tradition

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Oct 31, 2009
Location
malta
lol Nifty : how funny it is :) Tradition precisely send now systematic faxback request because i thought it was the best solution in order to avoid problems. So, for huge deposited amounts, for new credit cards used and for other situations similar, faxback is AUTOMATIC :)

Unfortunately, few players send immediately documents requested... Most of them prefer to wait to have a new withdrawal in order to send us security documents. So, it proved that players doesn't want to understand where is their own interest, even if we precised WHY this new measure apply and WHY their interest is to reply us asap.
 

AussieDave

Banned User
Joined
Dec 24, 2005
Location
Australia
KK, it can be a good idea if it's precised as below:

"How long did you wait for your withdrawal, once security documents are sent and accepted?"

Well actually that's not a good idea because...

Peeps are waiting 5 days or more after initiating their withdrawal, contacting the WL to ask where their winnings are and get told words to this affect...Oh we sent you an email requesting proof of ID docs did you not get this email?

Of course no email was received. And it's pretty obvious (by the number of posters) that no email was sent to begin with.

Just another of the many stall tactics being used by WL Rival Casinos to screw over players.


Cheers

:)

Dave
 

ksech

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 27, 2007
Location
Here
Excellent post Rob! First, I'm a player, but appreciate the effort and work the affliliates do on their sites to promote these casinos. I read several members sites monthly, to see their perspective of each casino. I am limited on the casinos I can now play at due the the Master Card issue, but I still enjoy playing at Rival when I get funds I can play with.

It seems to me, and this is just my opinion, that these white label casinos have no respect for the time and effort these affiliates put in to promote their casinos. It's a reflection of how they will treat the player if they are going to treat the affy badly. You don't go to a party and bash the guests in front of the host. Time and again there has been multiple threads about the newer Rival casinos treating the players badly. Banning players as bonus abusers, refusal/delays in payouts, bad CS... The list goes on and on.

In the last year and a half, these white label casinos seem to have been born faster than rabbits. I would almost dare to compare them to the rogue RTG casinos in some of their delaying tactics. The players are looking for honest casinos to play at. I am not naive enough to NOT realize there ARE the dishonest players out there. BUT, why should a few rotten apples spoil the entertainment of the honest ones?

Without loyal players these casinos cannot survive, the players will just go to another casino which will treat them with respect for their loyalty. Meaning... friendly, helpful CS. Bonuses that have within the realm of completing WRs. Payouts that are relatively fast, a day or 2, IMO, is sufficient.

I now have 4 casinos on my comp (1 MG, 1 RTG and 1 Rival and one I haven't been able to deposit at yet). These casinos have proven, to me as a player, that they are grateful for my patronage. They offer reasonable bonuses (although I seldom use them), their CS is ALWAYS friendly, courteous, and knowledgable, and their payout times are usually within a day or two. Are these casinos the rarities? If they can operate in this manner, why can't they all?
 
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