Me no like InterCasino VP changes

[The Dude]

From Ryan, who was unable to post in the forum:

We would like to once again apologise for the inconvenience and agitation the change to our single hand Double Video Poker has caused.

We can only admit once again that keeping the 'Certified Over 100% Return' message is an error on our part. Whilst in certain circumstances combined with comp points and bonuses this 100% return is correct, this can still be misleading and not the most appropriate statement to make.

We have amended our pay out rates to be in line with Land Based Casinos which at 99.11% payout, offer some of the best odds available around.

We're committed to removing the statement from the above mentioned game as soon as possible which we hope will be in the next 48 hrs.

 

[The Dude]

..Oh, and who added that stupid poll to this thread, with only the one-sided questions?
How about 'They were paying out over 100% so changed it quickly to correct this, but forgot to change the graphics'!

I agree - it's a one-sided silly-ass poll. Poll closed since it's really not very constructive.

Some of you guys are making me become a real authoritarian. What's up with that, eh?

 

[sdaddy]

As for the email, I haven't personally seen it yet. I would like to see the exact wording myself before saying anything further there.

I saw it posted at the beginning of the other locked thread.

 

[The Dude]

I saw it posted at the beginning of the other locked thread.

You mean the thread I "upgraded" to closed.

 

[Weedlayer]

...We have amended our pay out rates to be in line with Land Based Casinos which at 99.11% payout, offer some of the best odds available around...

Online casinos ought to be better than land based. Intercasino has no free cocktails, big-name entertainers, or buffets etc. And yes I get bonuses from land-based casinos as well as the loyalty club. Intercasino has a inferior offering here.

 

[zrap]

Lets put aside the 100% label and give intercasino the benefit of the doubt on that issue.


How about the fact that they increases the HOUSE ADVANTAGE by over 700% and then they sent out emails to tell players about the new and improved game! SO for the average player who doesn't have WinPoker they are intentional trying the deceive them into thinking it is a better game.


Sort of like having a mentally retarded employee and meeting with him to tell him he did such a good job he will be promoted and now receiving 80% of last years salary as his new pay rate!

Intercasino thinks all players are retards and caruso gets banned for pointing it out. Classic.

 

[amandajm]

The barred Caruso is the second highest player poster on this forum after JPM.

I think a discussion, on what is acceptable to post here is, might be in order. I do agree Bryan, your tone in increasing instances has become one of an authoritarian figure lately.

The bitchin newsletter, the bitchin webcast and the adult language used in it, the strong opinions for years. You have sliced and diced many. Mary has sliced and diced many here. Caruso posts in line with the site theme imo.

He just disagrees with changing the site thread title and moving cloud stuff away.

What does a member do if they disagree with you Bryan? Can they speak up without fear of being cast out?

 

[thelawnet]

Exactly. This is not some clip joint trying to intentionally deceive players. It's a poorly worded email (which I haven't seen either - and I'm a big time VP player there) and an issue about some 100% certifications that need to be removed -- which in fact have been there for quite a while. I never paid them much attention.

I agree with Spear - it's a silly mistake, but not one for grabbing the pitchforks and torches.

While I agree that the 100% payout was most likely a mistake that wasn't updated, the email was unacceptable, and they are still weaseling around it. The email had the effect of deceiving players into thinking the game had improved, when in fact it had got substantially worse, and given that they say they had employed a gaming expert, they are basically saying that they knew full well that the payout was worse, but they chose to claim that the game was better.

I don't see how given the statements made, there can be any interpretation of this under than an intent to conceive. They knew it was worse - the maths expert told them that - but they claimed they had made it better.

The email was not so much poorly worded as totally wrong: the point of the email was to purport that the game had been improved, when it had been made worse.

And to make matters worse, they have still not apologised for what did in fact have the effect of deceiving players (of course one cannot know the intent with absolute certainty). The second statement by Ryanh via Bryan at 6:05 UTC is talking about this 100% payout issue and still doesn't mention the fact that the email claimed that the game had been improved, when in fact there is not one person outside Intercasino who believes that a game that went from even to substantial casino advantage is an improvement of that game, and there is no question that the email had the effect of making players think that the game had been improved.

 

[tal23]

Not too happy with the email,
but in all fairness they didn't
say it had been improved for the player.....

 

[bo_ho]

Decieved? No, not me. If you're going to play VP you better know strategy and EV or you are on a fools errand.

I was, however, extremely dissapointed and a little sad after reading this email. I was disappointed a casino I had enjoyed and trusted for so many years was giving it's loyal customers so little credit by pushing this as an "imrovement". I was sad because with land casinos and online poker treating me so well this is the last online casino I was even playing...and now I'm done.

 

[CJack]

Originally Posted by Ryan
...We have amended our pay out rates to be in line with Land Based Casinos which at 99.11% payout, offer some of the best odds available around...

I play in many land based casinos in many areas.
Chicago area, New Enland, Missouri, Illinois, Nevada, North Carolina. Mississippi,, Louisiana, Wisonsin, Colorado casinos for sure offer games @ 99.8% and higher.

Even crappy old Harrahs in St Louis has at leat a dozen machines at 99.5+.
Plus free meals, daily cashback and snail mail cashback.

The real point is you should have just changed the paytable and kept out of giving reasons. We are used to this treatment. Too many expert VP players on this forum to snow.

PS: The other VP games at IC are below standards for Internet and land base casinos.

 

[spearmaster]

Online casinos ought to be better than land based. Intercasino has no free cocktails, big-name entertainers, or buffets etc. And yes I get bonuses from land-based casinos as well as the loyalty club. Intercasino has a inferior offering here.

Although I partially agree with this statement, you have to put things in perspective.

When playing at land-based casinos, you generally incur additional costs from:

* transportation
* lodging
* food
* tips

- none of which you would incur at online casinos unless you considering paying for food out of your own refrigerator a cost The only additional cost you incur at online casinos that you wouldn't incur at land-based casinos are:

* electricity
* costs of transferring money by courier or wire

With comps, land-based casinos rarely give you cash bonuses or incentives, although of course some do on occasion. Online casinos give you piddly loyalty points and can't comp your meals, though.

So, if you look at costs incurred, it's definitely much more expensive to play at a land-based casino. And comp-wise, although it may look a little imbalanced, it's actually pretty reasonable though I think online operations need to think about giving back more than 0.1% in cashback/loyalty points.

 

[scrollock]

Sort of like having a mentally retarded employee and meeting with him to tell him he did such a good job he will be promoted and now receiving 80% of last years salary as his new pay rate!

Intercasino thinks all players are retards and caruso gets banned for pointing it out. Classic.

i has something along these lines with william hill a few years back, they brought in some "improved contracts" for certain employees, we were told that 25% of employees signing them would be given pay rises of inflation or even greater.

it doesnt take a genius to work out that meant 75% of employees would be getting a pay cut, for my own personal situation i worked out the total loss for me would be between 5k-10k PA depending on how much overtime i would of done. not to even mention that the new contract would have meant an increase in workload for me.

more work, for less pay I DONT THINK SO!!!

yet they tried to sell this to me as if they were doing a favour.

 

[-z-]

I find this discussion about the upgrade deception or.. "UpgradeGate" really funny. Has noone seen the homepages of these casinos? Nearly every casino homepage claims to be giving away "FREE MONEY".

As if there's some guy just inside the casino handing out wads of cash.

A few casinos hide their Wagering Requirements so deeply in their website that you _absolutely must_ know that a wagering requirement exists in order to find it... Like drilling a oil well and trying to hit a Quarter buried 10 miles underground.

And many many bonuses are so sticky that there is no possible way to _get_ this "free money".

To accuse casinos of being deceptive is like accusing politicians of being deceptive.. or accusing puppys of being adorable.

You wanted this email?

- The people in charge of Un-Casino were overcome with greed over the weekend while counting their money and sipping delicious beverages near the pool. Due to this recent development Un-Casino has decided to lower the payouts a little on Video Poker. Have a nice day. -

-z-

P.S. I hope this Level 20 independent Math wizard can cast -Deflect Forum Noise- and -Golden Payout Logo Disentegration-

 

[scrollock]

Although I partially agree with this statement, you have to put things in perspective.

When playing at land-based casinos, you generally incur additional costs from:

* transportation
* lodging
* food
* tips

- none of which you would incur at online casinos unless you considering paying for food out of your own refrigerator a cost The only additional cost you incur at online casinos that you wouldn't incur at land-based casinos are:

* electricity
* costs of transferring money by courier or wire

With comps, land-based casinos rarely give you cash bonuses or incentives, although of course some do on occasion. Online casinos give you piddly loyalty points and can't comp your meals, though.

So, if you look at costs incurred, it's definitely much more expensive to play at a land-based casino. And comp-wise, although it may look a little imbalanced, it's actually pretty reasonable though I think online operations need to think about giving back more than 0.1% in cashback/loyalty points.

whenever i shop over the internet i dont expect to pay more just because i have saved the time and expense of buying it from a real shop.

 

[The Dude]

The barred Caruso is the second highest player poster on this forum after JPM.

I think a discussion, on what is acceptable to post here is, might be in order. I do agree Bryan, your tone in increasing instances has become one of an authoritarian figure lately.

The bitchin newsletter, the bitchin webcast and the adult language used in it, the strong opinions for years. You have sliced and diced many. Mary has sliced and diced many here. Caruso posts in line with the site theme imo.

He just disagrees with changing the site thread title and moving cloud stuff away.

What does a member do if they disagree with you Bryan? Can they speak up without fear of being cast out?

Jeeze amandajm, give it a break. You know exactly where I stand on this issue and I have been more than fair with caruso. Please don't derail the thread with a "poor caruso - bad bad meister" rant. His account was suspended by the way - not banned. There is a big difference.

I've already explained why his account was suspended, it had nothing to do with being critical with Intercasino, Cloud, Grand Virtual, (insert name of casino/software provider here), or forum member. It had everything to do with the language he uses and how he is critical. Please don't confuse his method of criticism with the "adult" language that many of us chose to use. You should spend some time, do some searches and look where I have warned him publicly on his posting style.

What does a member do if they disagree with you Bryan? Can they speak up without fear of being cast out?

C'mon, give me a freakin' break. I've been running this board successfully for seven years, and I think I know what I'm doing. I welcome criticisms - you know this. Please don't insinuate that there is some "authoritative" control freak censoring or upgrading member's accounts to "banned". I think the majority of posters know how to communicate and what is acceptable to post and what is not. When people get out of line, it's my duty to let them know. I am obliged to other forum members and to the integrity of the board to do this. In seven years, I have rarely banned anyone for disagreeing with me. And if so, it's by the method that they choose to disagree with me - not the disagreement itself.

Let's keep this on topic please. Thanks!

 

[The Dude]

PS: The other VP games at IC are below standards for Internet and land base casinos.

What about Intercasino's Deuces Wild 3:1 for a flush - the norm is 2:1, isn't it?

Ryan, please don't change that

 

[luanwang]

My God

What about Intercasino's Deuces Wild 3:1 for a flush - the norm is 2:1, isn't it?

Ryan, please don't change that

The return of "Deuces Wild" is only 97.97%. Please be noted, in Intercasino only 4:1 for "4 of a kind" (norm is 5:1) which has a high probability of 6.494% when flush has only 1.68% probability.

I'm so suprised and so sorry to hear such untutored word from Casinomeister.

 

[spearmaster]

whenever i shop over the internet i dont expect to pay more just because i have saved the time and expense of buying it from a real shop.

And neither should you necessarily expect more I'm just putting things in perspective - there's give and take in each case.

 

[CJack]

What about Intercasino's Deuces Wild 3:1 for a flush - the norm is 2:1, isn't it?

Ryan, please don't change that

The trouble with amateurs is they are amateurs. They do not look at everthing.

ICs VP:

All Ammerican - 98.11% - This game at 100.7% in MO and at 99.6% all over the internet and land based

Deuces Wild - 97.97%
Deceptive on the W-Royal. This game at 98.9% everywhere (Illinois deuces or Ugly ducks). Many casinos have 99.72% (Not So Ugly Ducks).

Double Bonus - I still had the old version ??

Jacks or Better - 98.25% - Deceptive on 4-OAK and StrFL
Game at 99.54% many casinos.

Joker Poker - 97.95%
Many versions of this game available at 98.9%. You can find this game at 99.8% in the 2-pair version (not Atlantic City).

 

[thelawnet]

The trouble with amateurs is they are amateurs. They do not look at everthing.

ICs VP:

All Ammerican - 98.11% - This game at 100.7% in MO and at 99.6% all over the internet and land based

Deuces Wild - 97.97%
Deceptive on the W-Royal. This game at 98.9% everywhere (Illinois deuces or Ugly ducks). Many casinos have 99.72% (Not So Ugly Ducks).

Double Bonus - I still had the old version ??

Jacks or Better - 98.25% - Deceptive on 4-OAK and StrFL
Game at 99.54% many casinos.

Joker Poker - 97.95%
Many versions of this game available at 98.9%. You can find this game at 99.8% in the 2-pair version (not Atlantic City).

And this is exactly why Intercasino's email and ryanh's subsequent explanation are bullshit.

Total and utter bullshit.

Real explanation: they wanted to make more money on Double Bonus Poker. Fine, ok, a business decision for them, go ahead.

Their explanation: the game was 'upgraded' to make it 'more realistic' and like real casinos. This is clearly total bullshit; in the first place, the full pay double bonus casino game is 10/7/5 double bonus, which has an optimal return of 100.17%.

Secondly, they clearly don't care about having paytables like those in the casinos, because none of their video poker games follows a paytable you will commonly find in a casino. The Jacks or Better game, which is a casino stable, and good for both player and casino, as it is 99.54% payout and easy to play. What do they have? A screwed up 9/6 paytable with short pays on four of a kind and straight flush. Will you find that paytable in a casino? I think not.

So clearly they don't care about realism, as they haven't done what every other major online casino does, and offer 9/6 Jacks or Better, and it's just a stupid marketing claim.

 

[The Dude]

I'm so suprised and so sorry to hear such untutored word from Casinomeister

Jesus, I was trying to be funny - chill out.

The trouble with amateurs is they are amateurs. They do not look at everthing

You talkin' to me? 'scuse me, you talkin' to me? I know you ain't talkin' to me.

What am I now? Some cyber punching bag? Sheesh!

 

[paul1]

Jesus, I was trying to be funny - chill out.


You talkin' to me? 'scuse me, you talkin' to me? I know you ain't talkin' to me.

What am I now? Some cyber punching bag? Sheesh!

I also thought that sounded just a wee bit arrogant. I don't think anyone who is knowledgeable about the finer points of video poker should look down their nose at people who aren't. And besides, if everyone was an expert, there probably wouldn't be any video poker offered in the first place.

I think this whole ordeal is way overblown. I've known a lot of gamblers in my life. It seems like most of them are always cynical, and cannot be pleased. We should all thank our lucky stars that there are some good places like Intercasino to play at.

 

[paul1]

So clearly they don't care about realism, as they haven't done what every other major online casino does, and offer 9/6 Jacks or Better, and it's just a stupid marketing claim.

Hi thelawnet. Some of the full pay schedules you mention, are probably really in the minority in real world casinos. The full pay 10-7 double bonus certainly is. There are far more "short-pay" schedules in all the casinos I have been at. Many people are not looking for full pay and they sit down at a short pay machine when there is actually a full pay right next to them. That is the reality of the world. And be thankful that it is like that.

I am not a VP expert but I do find the subject very interesting and I enjoy the game.

But like you said, it's just a "stupid marketing claim." And hence, I don't think it is any big deal. I really can't believe the big stink this has created. For the more discriminating players, just look for the better opportunities out there. No biggie.

 

[gfkostas]

Jesus......Bassmeister you do get some body shots in this thread

My 2 cents:
The facts the way I see them are that Intercasino has indeed screwed up with their 100% logo however the manager made clear that that was an honest mistake that will be taken care of asap.Further more the accused email is without exaggeration a bit misleading as well and I would like to believe that they won't use the same inappropriate words again to describe a change on a particular game.I don't think that Intercasino tried to deceive anyone here but yes their mistake was silly and frivolous in my opinion but who hasn't made silly mistakes in their life? Nobody is perfect nor any business out there HOWEVER If they continue to do similar silly mistakes frequently then we won't be able to forgive them so easily because continuous mistakes do border to incompetence in my estimation.

As far as CM goes I believe that the guy has shown what he is and what he is not for years now and those who don't know him good enough to know what i mean too bad.The fact that he has a site which is commited to help people for FREE is enough for me to believe that he has some qualities as a human that you don't usually see today.That kind of attitude of being detached from
'what's in it for me' when helping others is really something we should all try to adopt.Am not suprised at all he's business is going well.For me everyone who's on the top didn't just land there.A selfish authoritarian figure wouldn't last long.I don't think he would be recognized a quality watchdog by many had he been the way some of you want him to appear.We should all appreciate what he's doing for us especially when we don't pay a damn cent for his services.
I truly believe that if someone doesn't like how this place runs should really ask himself what he's doing here rather than having an attitude which says: 'If you could run this place the way 'I' think you should then I could like you better'

and no i ain't licking nobody ass here.Just saying what I think

 

[silcnlayc]

The verbal visualizations

and no i ain't licking nobody ass here

are most impressive

Tooo funny...

 

[paul1]

Just saying what I think

Casinomeister has top quality information about the gaming industry that we all love. This is a first rate site and the Boss seems like a class act. Do you guys remember when he has stood up for integrity against other people in this industry? I'm sure he could have sold out for big bucks long ago. And you're right, gfkostas, we're lucky he's helped so many and asks for nothing but a little civility on his forum.

This site is entertaining and the place to go to keep up on the news. The forum is good to read. I personally like the webcasts and am sorry that there seem to be fewer all the time. No doubt Bryan has his hands full, even with the helpful Vortran by his side. When I first learned of Casinomeister, a few years ago, I'll tell you, it was a big deal for me when the new webcast was up. I'm not kidding. That sounds funny, but I don't watch much television and it was kind of like my only entertainment. I really looked forward to it. Yes, I live a dull life, granted. I work a real job, come home and get on the computer and play, and that's about it. Dull!

Anyway, this is THE gambling site out there, and along with Wizard of Odds, I can spend hours and hours just reading. Whatta life.

 

[jetset]

Well said, gf.

IMV there has occasionally been a tendency for honest criticism of Bryan's running of this (privately owned) site to descend into rather hostile nit-picking lately, with some issues being blown out of proportion and even a little intolerance on display.

I believe that Paul's comment that Bryan has assisted many and asks for nothing but a little civility on his forum in return is something that bears repeating, too.


Examining the negative is important, but there has to be some balance too.

 

[scrollock]

as usual what has been a fascinating, informative & potentially productive thread has degenerated into personal battle between people.

for my tuppence worth anyway, how many other portal owners would of had the balls to take down such big names as 888.com & fortune lounge off their recommended list, not to mention the lost personal revenue ?

any chance we could get back on topic now ?

i believe the 100% tag is probably a genuine error, we see it all the time when things are updated, some other things that should be updated at the same time arn't. the difference is when its something that isn't updated that could be in a players favour, people keep quiet because it could be worth money to them. a good example of this is when a casino has a list of excluded games to make their bonuses slots & keno only, but a new game is launched, this game isn't put on the exlcuded list immediatly, everyone keeps quiet but then steams in to take advantage of what has now become a loophole in the T+C's.

but when its something that isn't in the players interest, then the casino must be "thieves" and "con artists"

however i'm still waiting for a justification on the deceptive marketing technique of calling the changes an "improvement"

 

[paul1]

a good example of this is when a casino has a list of excluded games to make their bonuses slots & keno only, but a new game is launched, this game isn't put on the exlcuded list immediatly, everyone keeps quiet but then steams in to take advantage of what has now become a loophole in the T+C's.

but when its something that isn't in the players interest, then the casino must be "thieves" and "con artists"

however i'm still waiting for a justification on the deceptive marketing technique of calling the changes an "improvement"

Ha! That's funny Scrollock. I think I did that once. I don't remember which Microgaming site, but when they introduced 3-card poker I took one up on a bonus promo and played that game. I knew it was only a matter of time before they exempted it. lol Shall I hang my head in shame? I don't think I'll lose any sleep over that. Let's face it. It's kind of a cat and mouse game. Players want to win, casinos want to win.

 

[gfkostas]

a good example of this is when a casino has a list of excluded games to make their bonuses slots & keno only, but a new game is launched, this game isn't put on the exlcuded list immediatly, everyone keeps quiet but then steams in to take advantage of what has now become a loophole in the T+C's.

but when its something that isn't in the players interest, then the casino must be "thieves" and "con artists"

 

[scrollock]

in response to the last 2 posters its attitudes like that why some casinos dont give players the respect they deserve.

 

[amandajm]

Well said, gf.

IMV there has occasionally been a tendency for honest criticism of Bryan's running of this (privately owned) site to descend into rather hostile nit-picking lately, with some issues being blown out of proportion and even a little intolerance on display.

I believe that Paul's comment that Bryan has assisted many and asks for nothing but a little civility on his forum in return is something that bears repeating, too.


Examining the negative is important, but there has to be some balance too.

Honest criticism of Bryan's running of - descending into hostile nit picking..

You know and I know, that when Caruso is having a good day, he is still a hedgehog. It is not hostility. It is like getting offended when an Australian starts every other sentence with "look".

That is why Bryan's warnings go unheeded. It is actually Caruso's prose that is the problem, not disrespect. "HOW" Caruso criticises in print, is his writing style. He has been posting the same forever. 2nd highest player poster worth.

Why would joey speak up?. Well the guy is barred forever in effect, because he can't change. That is here and WOL now. The 2 foremost casino gambling boards. This in fact, when you guys look back one day, will be a head-scratcher. This is no spammer I defend.

Much as I see all and understand all of the points made. This poster is not deservant of banishment.

If holding this opinion makes me an apologist, then I am sorry.

 

[paul1]

in response to the last 2 posters its attitudes like that why some casinos dont give players the respect they deserve.

Ha! When does any casino give players "respect"? Even a big spending "whale" is not really "respected". They call him "sir" and give him comps, because he's going to lose.

There's nothing wrong with what I said, Scrollock. A bit of a cat and mouse game. As long as players don't cheat, and as long as casinos don't deal seconds, everyone's happy. We want to win, and they want to win.

Discriminating and shopping for good deals is part of the fun. Why do casinos offer promotions? To give their money away? I don't think so. Sometimes casinos err in judgement and give deals that are too favorable to the player. Doesn't happen that often and usually doesn't last long. Casinos usually have a significant edge and if players ever enjoy an edge it's a small one. Either way, gambling should be fun. When it's not anymore, it's probably time to quit.

Sounds like you need a free cocktail, Scrollock.

 

[caruso]

I've heard from a credible source that the OLD paytable for Double Bonus has been accessed in the last 24 hours - and at Intercasino. This has to be a non-updated version.

The old paytable is 1,2,2,4,5,8,50,90,150 etc.

Can ANYONE still access this game? I'm absolutely sure the game was downgraded to the new paytable several months ago at all Cryptos, but I want confirmation I'm not dreaming.

If one or two people could take a lot and post what paytable you see, I'd appreciate it.

Menu = video poker / double bonus.

 

[Macgyver]

Can't get into the actual game itself since my balance is $0.00, but this might help ...

 

[tennis_balls]

true to life

the same payouts as the land based casinos and this is part of our way to make InterCasino as true to life as possible.

now there's one true to life feature I can survive without. however, it would be nice if you could send over a hottie cocktail waitress.

 

[tennis_balls]

i "assume" all cryptologic casinos have made this switch?

I believe the other Cryptologic casinos still offer the old paytable, so William Hill and the like should get extra business, now that Intercasino has the dubious honour of having probably the worst paying video poker on the internet.

I was playing at Littlewoods today (cryptologic), they had the same pay table as Intercasino for this game.

 

[SuperGidget]

I'm sorry to ask, but what did they change in the pay scale to make it worse?

 

[caruso]

Thanks, Macgyver.

The Wiz's Crypto DB section was out of date, but when he re-checked it yesterday after my mentioning the fact, it didn't update initially and he appeared to play on the old version - which is why I was looking for confirmation I wasn't hallucinating about all this.

Anyway, all sorted: he got the update second time round and has now fixed the page:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[paul02085]

I'm sorry to ask, but what did they change in the pay scale to make it worse?

I think they changed the royal payout (at max coin) from 4200 to 4000.

Also, i think they changed the 2 pair payout from 10 to 5.

I may be wrong on this though.

 

[caruso]

The old table:

JOB = 1
2 P = 2
3 OAK = 2
ST = 4
FL = 5
FH = 8
4 5s - Ks = 50
4 2s - 4s = 90
4 aces = 150
SF = 50
RF = 840

The new paytable:

JOB = 1
2 P = 1
3 OAK = 3
ST = 5
FL = 7
FH = 9
4 5s - Ks = 50
4 2s - 4s = 80
4 aces = 160
SF = 50
RF = 800

I've highlighted the killer.

This is a good example of standard casino trickology: pull an evil downgrade on a huge payline - in this case, two pair - then bump up other lines to make it look better - in this case, 3 OAK, st, FL and FH. The upgrades on those lower hands add very little, whereas the slaughter job on 2 pair knocks off fully 14%.

Just like the Deuces Wild trick - slide 4 OAK down from 5 to 4, then upgrade massively the low payout hands - like SF, from 9 to 13, as Microgaming does.

Generous, huh???????

Not really; the changes knock fully 4% off the paytable, reducing the full pay 100.76% to around 96%.

It's a really good example of how casinos think and operate, these VP sleight-of-hands: give it a nice glossy whitwash, but shovel the muck in threw the side door. Same as "single deck 21!!!!!!!!" plastered all over The Strip - you need to get close to the tables to notice "BJ pays 6:5".

I could go on, but will leave it there.

 

[Linus]

Ha! I read this whole thread before realizing it was three years out of date.

Good (I guess) to know things haven't changed much in all that time.

Glad you're still around, Caruso.

 

[caruso]

Ha! I read this whole thread before realizing it was three years out of date.

Three years?

This thread was started five months ago, late last year.

 

[Linus]

My bad. You know, CM walks a fine line here. On the one hand - as someone else pointed out - the players here don't directly pay CM anything. It's the casinos who pay the bills.

On the other hand, he owes the success of his site to the players, not the casinos. The only reason the casinos advertise here is because of his access to the players. Without the players, the casinos would have no interest.

Without his reputation as an advocate, this would be little different than the ten million and one banner farms that clutter up the internet. Indirectly, it's the players who pay for the site - by playing at the casinos. Ultimately, it's his rep that pays for everything.

At least, I hope that's how CM sees it.