Markus VS TradaCasino (Viaden Gaming)

[Seventh777]

Sooo, if I have this correct, you re-coded the recipient server data as to achieve bets not normally available (if they were you would not need your special software to enforce them), and went on to win, then cried wolf when denied a payout to fraudulent behaviour.

There is probably a reason that split amount bets are not available in the actual software, and you cannot see behind the wood for the trees that you overcoming this barrier with your own coding is not breaching the T and C`s, i`m lost for words, I really am.

 

[Markus]

There are plenty casinos with holes in their code. It's pretty much rampant. That doesn't mean it's ok to exploit...

I do not exploit software bugs that would give me an advantage (i.e. cheating), I only play games that are implemented in a way that gives me an edge (i.e. advantage play). There is a huge difference between both! I'm not a cheater.

@ Markus, did you ever think maybe you should spend your time building your own casino instead of trying to hack one for a very small amount of money?

Again, I do not hack, manipulate, etc. I'm just an advantage player. And I'm currently not planing to develop my own casino.

 

[Markus]

Sooo, if I have this correct, you re-coded the recipient server data as to achieve bets not normally available (if they were you would not need your special software to enforce them), and went on to win, then cried wolf when denied a payout to fraudulent behaviour.

There is probably a reason that split amount bets are not available in the actual software, and you cannot see behind the wood for the trees that you overcoming this barrier with your own coding is not breaching the T and C`s, i`m lost for words, I really am.

What do you mean by "re-coded the recipient server data"? I have not done this. I have just used my own client to make bets that were accepted by the server. Simple as that.

 

[rainmaker]

If you really need to know this, I can tell you via PM. I would appreciate it, if we could stay on topic in this thread.

I do not really want to know it, so no need for PM. I was just curious.

Of course you manipulate. As I see it, your customer relationship is with the casino client and not the software server. If the casino client has some limitations (for example a limited selection of games, bet sizes etc) then you have agreed to follow these restrictions when you signed up and agreed to T&C.

Anyway, let us wait for SlotMonster`s reply.

 

[Markus]

Of course you manipulate. As I see it, your customer relationship is with the casino client and not the software server. If the casino client has some limitations (for example a limited selection of games, bet sizes etc) then you have agreed to follow these restrictions when you signed up and agreed to T&C.

My customer relationship is with no kind of software, it's with the casino itself. The casino software's only purpose is to submit bets (client) and to receive bets (server), it says nothing about customer relationship. As the client runs on the players computer, why should the player not have the right to replace it against another software? It's the players computer, the player can run any software on his computer he wants to run (as long he do not violate the T&C).

 

[Seventh777]

What do you mean by "re-coded the recipient server data"? I have not done this. I have just used my own client to make bets that were accepted by the server.

Simple as that.

Yes or no answer, nothing more, nothing less.......

1). Does the recipient server allow the same bets that your client does?.

As we all know the answer is no, therefore your client has bypassed this barrier and thus your coding has over-ridden the recipient server that blocks these bets.

Simple as that, no matter what way you look at this your coding has triggered the ability to place bets that the recipient server does not allow.

 

[nisosbar]

You used your OWN version of the casino software to place bets that the REAL software doesn't allow, and you don't think that's CHEATING?

Honestly, what planet are you on? Every casino on the web has rules against that kind of thing, and the rule you quoted from Viaden certainly covers what you did as you were using an obviously prohibited device/software.....and you know it. Anyone who has been around more than five minutes knows its prohibited....it doesn't have to be specifically described. It's like seeing a "No Running" sign and then running, and then claiming when caught that you were actually "jogging quickly which isn't running".

I have to say that this kind of stunt pulled by players just ends up hurting the average player and players who do it should be banned from here. Bet levels are set by the operator and it is their right to do so....they did NOT offer the bets that the OP was making in the REAL software client, so they are NOT liable for paying those bets. Most people would just play elsewhere if they didn't like the bets on offer,but there's always some like the OP who think the rules don't apply to them so they alter the casinos own software to create an advantage over not just the casino but other players.....and THAT, my friends, is CHEATING.

The OP seems to be having more issues with casinos then the average person.....I wonder if this isn't the first time they have used this software alteration cheat? It puts a whole new spin on why Betfair may have charged back your winnings.......after all you refused to discuss any kind of detail about what "advantage play" you employed and you did not deny that you used a bot/software when challenged by another (seemingly well-informed since their question was completely out of the blue) member.

*P.S.*

I see you conveniently neglected to mention this term immediately above the one you quoted:



Ummm I think that's what they call "game set and match".....

OMG, serious here, I nearly spat out my coffee - this made me laugh so loud, thank you, Nifty!!! I never thought that would ever happen.

 

[Markus]

Yes or no answer, nothing more, nothing less.......

1). Does the recipient server allow the same bets that your client does?.

As we all know the answer is no, therefore your client has bypassed this barrier and thus your coding has over-ridden the recipient server that blocks these bets.

Simple as that, no matter what way you look at this your coding has triggered the ability to place bets that the recipient server does not allow.

Can't really follow you, but if you mean by "recipient server" the casino server, then the answer is YES.
Yes, the casino server accepts the bets I made with my client (which my client obviously also allows, otherwise it would not be able to submit these bets).

 

[nisosbar]

What a waste of time this thread is. We need a barf smilie.

 

[Nifty29]

I hope Bryan contacts every casino he knows with this guys details so he can be barred from every respectable operator on the net.

I'd love to see how he goes with only rogues.....

Oh yeah....and I just crapped in the freezer section of the supermarket, but I told the manager it was his fault for designing it in such a way that I was able to.

 

[Markus]

Oh yeah....and I just crapped in the freezer section of the supermarket, but I told the manager it was his fault for designing it in such a way that I was able to.

Bad comparison, because crapping in the freezer section of the supermarket would be a criminal property damage. I have not violated any rules.

 

[bsilva028]

Can't really follow you, but if you mean by "recipient server" the casino server, then the answer is YES.
Yes, the casino server accepts the bets I made with my client (which my client obviously also allows, otherwise it would not be able to submit these bets).

if you play in 1 casino by their rules, why you dont use the casino client and use your own client?
because you did it with the intention of being an easy way to get more winnings.
yes because i dont see any other reason to yo make your own client....

 

[Markus]

if you play in 1 casino by their rules, why you dont use the casino client and use your own client?
because you did it with the intention of being an easy way to get more winnings.
yes because i dont see any other reason to yo make your own client....

As I have explained it before there are several intentions why I use my own casino client. And yes, one intention is to do some advantage play. So what?

 

[IanO]

Quick question for you Markus... slightly off topic so please forgive the derail.

Do you accept that it is the existence of players like you that result in casinos implimenting terms like the 'spirit of the bonus' and other hated rules, or do you honestly view yourself as a complete innocent?

You strike me as a very inteliligent man (with regards odds and maths etc). As an individual gambler I'm sure you do very well but do you see, understand or care at all how your behaviour affects the industry as a whole? (and this community right here of which you are a member?)

I looked through some previous threads of yours. You threatened to commit a ddos attack against one casino, and tried to pull a fast one at three dice too but were caught. I'm not entirely sure why your rep score is so high to be honest.

Getting back to the thread and the question by Seventh.. you said: ''Yes, the casino server accepts the bets I made with my client''

Would the casino server have accepted/allowed those bets if you did not use your own client? And pretty please... just a yes or no without any wordgames attached. Thanks.

 

[chayton]

It seems like the OP thinks he's found a loophole because the casino doesn't have a rule like this posted:

You will place all wagers on Games through the various user interfaces provided on our site and you will not wager through other means, including the use of a "robot" player;

And because this rule that they DO have has the word 'prohibited' in it:

You will not utilise any prohibited device, software, spider, robot, routine or other method (or any other unit similar to the aforementioned) to prevent or attempt to interfere with the regular proper performance of the Website or Services;

Seems pretty straightforward - the OP used his own client (device or software) allowing him to place bets that weren't allowed (interfering with regular proper performance) by the casino client. But he's thinking because they use the word 'prohibited' instead of 'any' that somehow it's ok...?

 

[rainmaker]

.

You said in your first post:

-It might be an implementation error

So you are obviously fully aware of that this may be an error. And that you have used this error as an advantage.

This is from T&C at TradaCasino:

If You become aware that the Website generally or any game in particular contains any error, or is incomplete, You must inform Our Online Support Team. You agree not to take advantage of any error in any game

So why have you not informed their Online Support Team about this error? As a customer, you have agreed to these T&C.

 

[bsilva028]

As I have explained it before there are several intentions why I use my own casino client. And yes, one intention is to do some advantage play. So what?

several intentions?
hmmm
one intention is to so some advantage play
and the other intentions? i would like to understand it
and so what? the meaning of "fair-play" is like the name says "fair"
use a own client to take advantage its not fair..... its cheat

why dont you use your own client only with rogue casinos?

 

[jstrike]

Well, it's your right not to wear clothes either. But if you walk into the Bellagio naked, you'll probably learn things about security you never heard about on 4chan.
Seriously, are you stupid, crazy or what? I understand exactly what you did. And it may be the most technically accomplished hack ever for all anyone cares. You have to look at it realistically. They make the rules. You can't "beat" them on a technicality. You could be as right as Jesus, no one's gonna pay you for it. What made you think this was a way to make money?

 

[Markus]

Do you accept that it is the existence of players like you that result in casinos implimenting terms like the 'spirit of the bonus' and other hated rules, or do you honestly view yourself as a complete innocent?

You strike me as a very inteliligent man (with regards odds and maths etc). As an individual gambler I'm sure you do very well but do you see, understand or care at all how your behaviour affects the industry as a whole? (and this community right here of which you are a member?)

Every player has the intention to win money while gambling. And everyone should have the right to do the best he can, as long he don't violates any rule or uses fraud. If someone is not doing well and loses more money than he wins, than the solution should be, that he becomes himself an advantage player. He should not blame other players for his bad success, because he is in control of his own success.

I looked through some previous threads of yours. You threatened to commit a ddos attack against one casino, and tried to pull a fast one at three dice too but were caught. I'm not entirely sure why your rep score is so high to be honest.

I know that this ddos threat was wrong. It was in the early days where I just began advantage play and I didn't even knew that there was something like a PAB-Service. I just did feel helpless and thought a threat would be my only chance to get my winnings.
Regarding the 3 Dice, I still think I'm right, even though most members didn't agreed with me.

Getting back to the thread and the question by Seventh.. you said: ''Yes, the casino server accepts the bets I made with my client''

Would the casino server have accepted/allowed those bets if you did not use your own client? And pretty please... just a yes or no without any wordgames attached. Thanks.

Sorry, this question is not answerable with a single yes or no, because the server ALWAYS accept these kind of bets. It depends on the client whenever the player is able to do this bets or not. The answer would be yes, if their official client would be able to submit these bets. But because their official client is not possible to make this bet this question is unnecessary.

 

[Markus]

.

You said in your first post:

-It might be an implementation error

So you are obviously fully aware of that this may be an error. And that you have used this error as an advantage.

This is from T&C at TradaCasino:

If You become aware that the Website generally or any game in particular contains any error, or is incomplete, You must inform Our Online Support Team. You agree not to take advantage of any error in any game

So why have you not informed their Online Support Team about this error? As a customer, you have agreed to these T&C.

How can I be sure whenever it is an error or it is intended? What I was saying with "It might be an implementation error" is, that IF this is some kind of bug, it can't be a software glitch, but only an implementation error. I still think, it is not the job of the player to verify that all games working probably, it's the casinos's responsibility.

 

[bsilva028]

How can I be sure whenever it is an error or it is intended? What I was saying with "It might be an implementation error" is, that IF this is some kind of bug, it can't be a software glitch, but only an implementation error. I still think, it is not the job of the player to verify that all games working probably, it's the casinos's responsibility.

if is the casino responsibility when you use your own client if theres an error,
so in that case its your responsibility of use your own client and be paid by yourself og the winnings, its not responsibility of the casino, afterall the client is yours so the winnings are not responsibility of the casino

 

[mattsgame]

Cannot believe this guy has been a member since 2008 and thinks this is all ok, or has never been caught before.

Took him to open his mouth before anyone knew of anything.

Oh and is that 1 successful PAB, wonder if it was a similar issue.

 

[nisosbar]

I hope Bryan contacts every casino he knows with this guys details so he can be barred from every respectable operator on the net.

I'd love to see how he goes with only rogues.....

Oh yeah....and I just crapped in the freezer section of the supermarket, but I told the manager it was his fault for designing it in such a way that I was able to.

and thank you for barfing!

 

[Seventh777]

But because their official client is not possible to make this bet this question is unnecessary.

There we go, right there, it took a few replies, but finally, you nailed it.

I take it that by this statement you meant "But because their official client it is not possible to make this bet", so, let`s recap, it really is blatantly simple, you have used software to procure a bet that is otherwise and under normal circumstances not available.

Plain and simple, let`s not play the innocent by ignorance wild card here, "But all my client done was help me place bets not available on the actual casino server, so therefore I have done nothing wrong (except exploit-ate a bug that when signing up and agreeing to the T&C`s you were under obligation to report)".

 

[Markus]

There we go, right there, it took a few replies, but finally, you nailed it.

I take it that by this statement you meant "But because their official client it is not possible to make this bet", so, let`s recap, it really is blatantly simple, you have used software to procure a bet that is otherwise and under normal circumstances not available.

Plain and simple, let`s not play the innocent by ignorance wild card here, "But all my client done was help me place bets not available on the actual casino server, so therefore I have done nothing wrong (except exploit-ate a bug that when signing up and agreeing to the T&C`s you were under obligation to report)".

Sorry for my bad english. What I meant was: "But because their official client is not able to make this bet". It is possible to make this bets, just not with their official client.
And again: No casino software provider is that insane that he would blindly trust the client. This is either intended or an implementation error.

PS: I'm currently very sleepy, that might be the reason why I have used the wrong word. Now it's time to get some sleep.