external image

Malta Gaming Authority

Joined
Aug 10, 2018
Location
Germany
Does anyone have any experience dealing with the MGA, or Malta gaming authority which regulates all the gambling websites based in Malta? Are they actually a fare third party who takes complaints seriously?

Or are they just a rubber stamp organization the Island has that does nothing more than collects Gaming license fees, and doesn’t care about the consumer?
 
Does anyone have any experience dealing with the MGA, or Malta gaming authority which regulates all the gambling websites based in Malta? Are they actually a fare third party who takes complaints seriously?

Or are they just a rubber stamp organization the Island has that does nothing more than collects Gaming license fees, and doesn’t care about the consumer?

I have experience with them.

-They took 3 months to handle my complaint which was clearly well explained and had massive details
-They copy/paste what the casino told them instead of actually understanding my complaint, and of course stayed on the casinos side
-If you google them, you will find several articles of corruption
-Casinomeister deleted my post about them and leovegas (which was objective) for no stated reason
 
Have seen some complaints where they have taken players side, these were quite big and obvious ones where kind of wasn't anything unclear or small print in T&C:s where casinos could have been hide themselves. Nearly all complaints which are ending up there, casino is found to be right. Guess that most of here been reading some casinos T&C:s which pretty much in short are "We are allowed to do what ever we decide when ever we decide and you have accepted that at the moment you tick the box and create your account".

Casinos mostly go through all complaints and if let it to go to authorities, is quite sure to win that. Of course there always can be some mistakes done there in internal investigations, but most of these casinos are winning, so would make sure that breach of terms or what ever happened is very obvious and there are no way for casino to speak themselves out from it.

Hope they are casino who is dealing with CM PAB:s, in these for casino still have chance to solve case without authorities, Max have quite an experience with these and can quite sure point out possible mistakes and help to sort it out, success rate much better for player than MGA, just remember not to post anything related to this as long PAB is in progress, best of luck and let us know once PAB solved :)
 
Why did casinomeister delete your post about them?

So basically they are a useless organization?0”

I have no idea why Casinomeister chose to delete my post.
I only posted about my experience with my complaint about Leovegas which rutheless took advantage of me (yes, I played my part in this as well 50/50 guilty I'd say), and that MGA didn't even
check any of the details I provided. I also mentioned that there are several newsarticles about MGA where they connected to corruption which they try to defend themselfes against on their hompeage.

But my guess is that Casinomeister does not in general appreciate negative feedback or negative discussions about casinos or MGA.
What else could it be? If I wrote my post here again, you'd see it's very harmless wording, but about a major issue.

I still work with MGA to see if their lovely Code of Ethics is just a paint on a broken wall, but they take forever to reply. 2 weeks in between every answer I get.
My tip to you, try chatting at their site and you will experience a person that does not know how to be objective and simply is rude.
In my case I was told 3-4 weeks for conclusion, it took three months without any investigation and MGA did not reply to why many of my factors were not considerated.
Simply a copy/paste answer from Leovegas and that's that. It was quite hilarious actually.
I have a feeling that there was some language barriers in my documentations.

Agian, their Code of Ethics says that they should act otherwise though...
 
I have no idea why Casinomeister chose to delete my post.
I only posted about my experience with my complaint about Leovegas which rutheless took advantage of me (yes, I played my part in this as well 50/50 guilty I'd say), and that MGA didn't even
check any of the details I provided. I also mentioned that there are several newsarticles about MGA where they connected to corruption which they try to defend themselfes against on their hompeage.

But my guess is that Casinomeister does not in general appreciate negative feedback or negative discussions about casinos or MGA.
What else could it be? If I wrote my post here again, you'd see it's very harmless wording, but about a major issue.

I still work with MGA to see if their lovely Code of Ethics is just a paint on a broken wall, but they take forever to reply. 2 weeks in between every answer I get.
My tip to you, try chatting at their site and you will experience a person that does not know how to be objective and simply is rude.
In my case I was told 3-4 weeks for conclusion, it took three months without any investigation and MGA did not reply to why many of my factors were not considerated.
Simply a copy/paste answer from Leovegas and that's that. It was quite hilarious actually.
I have a feeling that there was some language barriers in my documentations.

Agian, their Code of Ethics says that they should act otherwise though...

Feel free to private message me
 
@Solaris - we do not delete posts at Casinomeister - only those that are spam deleted OR double posts which happen occasionally.

I checked our logs and "report a post", and guess what? We did delete one of your posts because you requested us to - it was a double post.

Here is the post:
Feedback - Leovegas takes advantage of problem gamblers?

So what the hell? Now you are insinuating that I don't want bad reviews about the MGA??? I probably have been the most outspoken person on this planet about the MGA. The record speaks for itself - I don't need to start posting links to explain my point.

They are not a rubber stamp; they are becoming a very strong and responsive regulator. Both Max an I are in direct contact with their operations chief, and if or when there is a problem, it gets solved. They may still be slow on dealing with player issues, but players will get a fair outcome to their grievances.

I expect a retraction of the bogus crap you've posted. Pretty rich coming from a newbie.
 
@Solaris - we do not delete posts at Casinomeister - only those that are spam deleted OR double posts which happen occasionally.

I checked our logs and "report a post", and guess what? We did delete one of your posts because you requested us to - it was a double post.

Here is the post:
Feedback - Leovegas takes advantage of problem gamblers?

So what the hell? Now you are insinuating that I don't want bad reviews about the MGA??? I probably have been the most outspoken person on this planet about the MGA. The record speaks for itself - I don't need to start posting links to explain my point.

They are not a rubber stamp; they are becoming a very strong and responsive regulator. Both Max an I are in direct contact with their operations chief, and if or when there is a problem, it gets solved. They may still be slow on dealing with player issues, but players will get a fair outcome to their grievances.

I expect a retraction of the bogus crap you've posted. Pretty rich coming from a newbie.


Hello Casinomeister and thank you for your reply.

This is not the post I was refeering to.

I do not understand you hard words and term "bogus" and "crap".
I've been fairly objective in all my posts and I stated a what could be a probable reason.


The problem with Leovegas is my own case with them and that they this year have been fined for acting ruthless towards problem gamblers.
 
@Solaris - we do not delete posts at Casinomeister - only those that are spam deleted OR double posts which happen occasionally.

I checked our logs and "report a post", and guess what? We did delete one of your posts because you requested us to - it was a double post.

Here is the post:
Feedback - Leovegas takes advantage of problem gamblers?

So what the hell? Now you are insinuating that I don't want bad reviews about the MGA??? I probably have been the most outspoken person on this planet about the MGA. The record speaks for itself - I don't need to start posting links to explain my point.

They are not a rubber stamp; they are becoming a very strong and responsive regulator. Both Max an I are in direct contact with their operations chief, and if or when there is a problem, it gets solved. They may still be slow on dealing with player issues, but players will get a fair outcome to their grievances.

I expect a retraction of the bogus crap you've posted. Pretty rich coming from a newbie.

I have to say, and defend casinomeister here. Especially given my situation where Casinomeister (thank you max d) really did go to bat for me against LeoVegas whose regulated by MGA. Casinomeister isn’t intimidated by the MGA, and they really do care about the players immensely as their track records have shown. This is why I only play at casinomeister accredited casinos. Even if they have other good outside reviews, I’m hesitant to play at any casino that is not casinomeister accredited.

I think given Casinomeister’s reputation since 1998, it’s fair to assume they are not out for a certain agenda. They even allowed that sore loser to make a ridiculous post about magnets in live casino roulette, and didn’t delete that thread. I got a real good laugh out of that one...

Casinomeister is very legitimate and fights for players day in and day out as their reputation shows. I’m not sure why you want to slam a website where they tirelessly fight for players and Bryan has been critical of MGA in the past.
 
I have experience with them.

-They took 3 months to handle my complaint which was clearly well explained and had massive details
-They copy/paste what the casino told them instead of actually understanding my complaint, and of course stayed on the casinos side
-If you google them, you will find several articles of corruption
-Casinomeister deleted my post about them and leovegas (which was objective) for no stated reason
That is not true. It never happened.

But my guess is that Casinomeister does not in general appreciate negative feedback or negative discussions about casinos or MGA.
What else could it be? If I wrote my post here again, you'd see it's very harmless wording, but about a major issue.
Making an assumption on something that is not true.

This is not the post I was refeering to.

I do not understand you hard words and term "bogus" and "crap".
I've been fairly objective in all my posts and I stated a what could be a probable reason.
To say that I deleted some post that was critical about Leo Vegas and the MGA is bogus. To insinuate that there is a air of dodginess about that is crap.

If I moderated this forum in the way that you are assuming that I do - this forum would have been dead in 1999. I have run this forum for 20 years and I've never deleted posts that were "negative discussions" about casinos or regulators. There are thousands of people who can attest to this.
 
I have to say, and defend casinomeister here. Especially given my situation where Casinomeister (thank you max d) really did go to bat for me against LeoVegas whose regulated by MGA. Casinomeister isn’t intimidated by the MGA, and they really do care about the players immensely as their track records have shown. This is why I only play at casinomeister accredited casinos. Even if they have other good outside reviews, I’m hesitant to play at any casino that is not casinomeister accredited.

I think given Casinomeister’s reputation since 1998, it’s fair to assume they are not out for a certain agenda. They even allowed that sore loser to make a ridiculous post about magnets in live casino roulette, and didn’t delete that thread. I got a real good laugh out of that one...

Casinomeister is very legitimate and fights for players day in and day out as their reputation shows. I’m not sure why you want to slam a website where they tirelessly fight for players and Bryan has been critical of MGA in the past.


I did not say this site is not trusted and I did not talk about agenda.
You asked me why did they delete my post in the other thread?
I stated what could be a reason because I was never told why it got deleted.

About the sore looser, just think about him what he actually feels inside.
Does he need people laughing at him or does he need people protecting/helping him?
 
For the record, yes I deleted your post:

deleted post.webp
 
I hope he gets the help he needs.

But it is still funny for someone to lose at a game your suppose to lose at, and then complain about magnets. I can’t help my feelings.

The bottom line is Casinomeister does not have an agenda, and they have been critical of the MGA in the past and do not censor discussion.
 
That is not true. It never happened.


Making an assumption on something that is not true.


To say that I deleted some post that was critical about Leo Vegas and the MGA is bogus. To insinuate that there is a air of dodginess about that is crap.

If I moderated this forum in the way that you are assuming that I do - this forum would have been dead in 1999. I have run this forum for 20 years and I've never deleted posts that were "negative discussions" about casinos or regulators. There are thousands of people who can attest to this.


Dear Casinomeister


I had a post that was called something like "Leovegas and MGA" some weeks ago. That is not bogus.
I tried to find it because of EbertScore questions about MGA and it is not anywhere to be found.
So either someone deleted it (it had around 80 views the first day) or there is a technical error.

Assumptions are not necessarily true, that is why it is an assumption.

I think you get a wrong impression of my assumptions.
I do not write here to call Casinomeister Forum a dogdy place, I am here for the discussions.
Critics benefits every part as long as it is as objective as possible.
And I have no problem admitting if I am wrong in assumptions that I think is quite mild language wise.

Have to admit I do not appreciate foul language, but it is your site, you run it the way you want, that I respect.
 
Well, instead of us squabbling about it, why not start a new thread "Leovegas and MGA" and go from there. I'm supposed to be doing my taxes, not arguing on the Internet. Thanks!
 
I hope he gets the help he needs.

But it is still funny for someone to lose at a game your suppose to lose at, and then complain about magnets. I can’t help my feelings.

The bottom line is Casinomeister does not have an agenda, and they have been critical of the MGA in the past and do not censor discussion.


Sure, we all laugh at other peoples
Well, instead of us squabbling about it, why not start a new thread "Leovegas and MGA" and go from there. I'm supposed to be doing my taxes, not arguing on the Internet. Thanks!


Hehe, maybe I will if you allow me :p

I will tone it down in assumptions to respect your T&C.
Cheers and thanks for our squabbling :cheers:
 
I have experience with them.

-They took 3 months to handle my complaint which was clearly well explained and had massive details
-They copy/paste what the casino told them instead of actually understanding my complaint, and of course stayed on the casinos side
-If you google them, you will find several articles of corruption
-Casinomeister deleted my post about them and leovegas (which was objective) for no stated reason

TBH, can't really see any huge case in your topic linked here, all casinos offering these tools to control your playing with different ways which you were offered and they also checked with you that you are ok with your spending. If casino interact with player and try to ask if one is comfortable with level of playing and advised about limits they have available, not sure how they should act if player is stating that is ok with level of gambling and willing not to set any limits.

From your emails and deposit pattern probably were signs about RG issues casino took action and you were contacted, from that point ball is thrown to player him/herself to set limit or self-exclude if having severe gambling addiction. I really feel you and that was not a small amount of money and addictions are really not easy to control, even trying very best, there can be just some very little thing what is triggering it and make life hard. Having same problem myself with alcohol (sorry, not really this forums issue, but will count it bit related) and having few pints can make take again few weeks or something.... But i can't really blame my regular pub, even if i go there every day quite early in a day and drink till midnight, i could ask them not to serve me anything in few months but then i just need to walk two hundred meters more to get my drinks from shop or other pub.

Spotting out problem gamblers is not really easy and close to impossible (except very extreme occasions), to be sure about somebody have really problem and how severe, thing to do is interact and check politely with player that one is ok and advise about limits. It's quite harsh from casino to accuse player straight that "You are gambling addict, we have now closed your account". I would take it as a quite rude communication and action from casino to call me addict or problem gambler if i haven't bring it up, therefore asking and offering limits it's many times IMO right thing from casinos to do and carry their part of their social responsibility. Accusing some to gambling addict etc.... could end up to court if somebody get really pissed after some company start to call him/her addict....

Casinos in general are not really (what i have experience about industry) willing to take advantages from problem gamblers and are offering these limits and exclusions, for many who have severe problems are not long term high value players for casino either (some small rogue ones can have bit different way of thinking), at least "good guys" in industry rather find players with good retention and from that way life time value for casino when one keep coming back after year and year instead of somebody with problems loose big amount in few months and life time value was there.

Anyway, i really understand your point and have experience about addiction and how it is to live with that and hope all the best for you.

(sorry about long post, still bit sleepy even having my second coffee, fingers faster than brains..... might be bit repeating myself....)
 
TBH, can't really see any huge case in your topic linked here, all casinos offering these tools to control your playing with different ways which you were offered and they also checked with you that you are ok with your spending. If casino interact with player and try to ask if one is comfortable with level of playing and advised about limits they have available, not sure how they should act if player is stating that is ok with level of gambling and willing not to set any limits.

From your emails and deposit pattern probably were signs about RG issues casino took action and you were contacted, from that point ball is thrown to player him/herself to set limit or self-exclude if having severe gambling addiction. I really feel you and that was not a small amount of money and addictions are really not easy to control, even trying very best, there can be just some very little thing what is triggering it and make life hard. Having same problem myself with alcohol (sorry, not really this forums issue, but will count it bit related) and having few pints can make take again few weeks or something.... But i can't really blame my regular pub, even if i go there every day quite early in a day and drink till midnight, i could ask them not to serve me anything in few months but then i just need to walk two hundred meters more to get my drinks from shop or other pub.

Spotting out problem gamblers is not really easy and close to impossible (except very extreme occasions), to be sure about somebody have really problem and how severe, thing to do is interact and check politely with player that one is ok and advise about limits. It's quite harsh from casino to accuse player straight that "You are gambling addict, we have now closed your account". I would take it as a quite rude communication and action from casino to call me addict or problem gambler if i haven't bring it up, therefore asking and offering limits it's many times IMO right thing from casinos to do and carry their part of their social responsibility. Accusing some to gambling addict etc.... could end up to court if somebody get really pissed after some company start to call him/her addict....

Casinos in general are not really (what i have experience about industry) willing to take advantages from problem gamblers and are offering these limits and exclusions, for many who have severe problems are not long term high value players for casino either (some small rogue ones can have bit different way of thinking), at least "good guys" in industry rather find players with good retention and from that way life time value for casino when one keep coming back after year and year instead of somebody with problems loose big amount in few months and life time value was there.

Anyway, i really understand your point and have experience about addiction and how it is to live with that and hope all the best for you.

(sorry about long post, still bit sleepy even having my second coffee, fingers faster than brains..... might be bit repeating myself....)



Hello Slottery and thank you for your post.


You're from Malta?

Do you assume my case is about me being a problem gambler?


But lets get it on:

These limit choices are not the casinos moral choice to have on the site, is it not by law?

I do agree that you cannot accuse anyone directly to be a problem gambler, but seeing a pattern using AI
is not so hard as you might think. Ludomania is a diagnosis that have clear patterns.

Here is a brief example (not necessarily the exact solution):
-Take 10000 people who has spend a certian amount of money that have self excluded themselves or have their account closed because of rage etc.
-Find the similarities in the patterns: Time spent playing, upping/downing bets, deposits, cancelling withdrawals, fast spin button etc.
-Mash this together and you will find a pattern in slots and other games.
-Contact this person and make him/her fills out a sort of form that will determine if more action is needed or that he/she can play more.

How many non problem gamblers would have this exact pattern?

And yes, problem gamblers are not free of all responsibility, but they grow in numbers and needs protection like all addicts.
If not, why would we even discuss it?


What does not work as of today for problem gamblers is:
-Inexperienced Customer Services that have absolutley no experience with human psychology, and that think it's cool to be a keyboard hero defending the casino.
-A pop-up that says how much you have lost.
-A set limit reminder (how cute)..


You say that casinos are not willing to take advantages of problem gamblers, but who do they really earn the big bucks on?
Masses of 30€-a-months-depositers or hammering problem gamblers that does not know what it means to loose tens of thousands of € a month?
They run a business and needs to survive, but also have to follow laws and regulations. A fine moral line that breaks every day.

And last but not least, make the slots more fair...(for another topic)


Hope you enjoyed your coffee :)
 
That's true that you mentioned some signs which can address somebody to be at least high risk problem gambler (sorry, you asked that i assumed your case was about problem gambling and casinos responsibilities when was reading that link CM added in his post, apologies if i was mistaking), and casinos are really following player behavior from their different reports, many including to these things you mentioned, loads of deposits in short time, time spent online, cancelling most of withdrawals and other marks which could be red flag for problem gambling. Many operators are closing players accounts if playing is getting really extreme, but it's not that easy to just simply decide that one have so severe problem that self-exclusion or closing account is only thing to do, what then if player is coming back and demand to get account opened?

UKGC have already gone more strict and been giving some quite big fines for casinos for failing to fill their social responsibilities with responsible gaming, MGA expected to follow that route as well, dunno how strictly and when we see something really start to change, but quite surely it will happen sooner or later.

UKGC ruling which is discussed in at least few different topics, is not really clear, i bet most of casinos would be really happy to receive exact ruling to follow when it's coming to money laundering and responsible gaming, but as long operators don't really get much support how to bring these things to their operations, it's quite much grey area when to do what and some operators are more strict than others and many totally lost in these rulings. At least some (sorry to speak just some operators etc... but can't know all of them, just some what i use or somehow know) operators are already carrying out Source of Wealth checks for players under MGA license, which information can be used to recognize possible money laundering and problem gambling. All players are not happy at all to share quite sensitive information like their payslips, bank statement transaction information and all documentation which is needed to understand players economical situation and where money is coming from. Even that is not bullet proof like anything else, player can post proof of winnings from other casino for part of it, but there really is no way to know if it's spent already, how many casinos player is playing or is some money showing bank statement actually meant to be family savings or what ever.

As we came to conclusion that we all can get addicted to different things, i don't really see that casino operators wouldn't already now carry more responsibilities (what you mentioned are not helping) than places who sell alcohol for people they know to be alcoholics, strip clubs who are happy to take every single coin from your pocket when you are already actually sleeping there, computer game providers who can see that one person is playing online extreme amount hours daily etc....

I would say that for casino operator, players life time value and retention is more beneficial than some problem gambler loosing big bunch of money in short period, there are players who play more than your mentioned 30€ monthly but still not more than can afford and keep it fun, when starting to get fully in that fun called SOW checks where you have to open all your financial details to casino operator what you wouldn't like to share with your friends or any people in the world, it will quite surely help to see that one is playing what can afford but if you have seen some posts from this and other forums, for many it's pain in somewhere and not willing to do that (It can feel that it's easier to get mortgage from bank than proof your SOW to casino as at least some topics showed here), minority of players have bad addictions and hopefully recognize it themselves, casino operator can't easily follow up everything in real time but losing fast is very easy and if your account get blocked, you find Bonanza or what ever is your favorite game from few hundred of other sites. UKGC and MGA are moving to self-exclusions which are taking effect for all casinos under their license, but does that make problem gamblers spend their money to some rogue casinos under Curacao, Costa Rica etc... licenses where we all probably have seen stories that players rights are quite much worse than in Europe (not all of them, but there you hear more stories where you don't see your winnings and some quite horrible T&C:s with small maximum payouts etc...)?


What you mentioned about customer support, it's quite tough demand that operators would start to hire psychiatric educated persons there, probably not really big pile of CV:s if you add that to needed education. They do assist you how site is working, about ongoing promotions, escalating possible technical issues or if your payment haven't reach your account and many other tasks. Many operators have quite clear instructions to support to escalate also possible problem gamblers to relevant department if player is mentioning about playing too much, played rent money or shows other clear signs, then you will most probably be contacted and ask that you are ok and be offered limits, if you can't agree that you might need some limits, it's quite heavy decision for operator to bank some player because "We thought you play too much...."

Really hope that it would be that simple to build system that nobody don't get harms from playing but that's kind of hard call. If you think that you can easily solve that problem without ruining fun from "normal players", i bet you would be quite wanted to work in most of, especially very big operators. Point just is that many things have been tried players are risk followed up but that magic haven't yet happened that all players with problems can't be helped by operators as can't other addicts, it just for many takes to get very deep before willing start to help him/herself.

Last point about make slots more fair i don't really get, all of them must have clear rules, RTP and other information which have to be accurate, not sure how to make them more fair, but that's not really up to casinos but game providers and when you look games average RTP:s, there might not be much space to make them higher and still run business with all it's expenses. Playing online is not good for all and can cause big problems, drinking is not good for all who can't control it, could carry to this list quite long.... :)
 
That's true that you mentioned some signs which can address somebody to be at least high risk problem gambler (sorry, you asked that i assumed your case was about problem gambling and casinos responsibilities when was reading that link CM added in his post, apologies if i was mistaking), and casinos are really following player behavior from their different reports, many including to these things you mentioned, loads of deposits in short time, time spent online, cancelling most of withdrawals and other marks which could be red flag for problem gambling. Many operators are closing players accounts if playing is getting really extreme, but it's not that easy to just simply decide that one have so severe problem that self-exclusion or closing account is only thing to do, what then if player is coming back and demand to get account opened?


This was a long and well well written post :)

No worries, I just wanted to know where you got that from. I really would use myself as an example for many of the elements in this conversation as I've experienced a lot during some years now, if you don't mind.
Openess is a key to evolving in my opinion.

To answer the first question it might be a forced grade of cool off period depending on the grade of extreme playing. Pop-ups are associated with something you'd remove fast. (those "you have been playing for and lost...." etc.)
It is quite certain that a person would "get back to reality" thinking what he exactly are doing after some hours of playing, but then the question leads to how that would benefit casinos.
What do you think?

When the rules are turning more strict, the casinos needs to evolve in other ways or else the income would be less. They need to board more players by making gambling more accepted and maybe have lower payouts/jackpots.
There are of course multiple of other factors to consider how to run business. These are just two examples.
But anyhow they need to make profits and they can't afford stricter rules without evolving accordingly.

My experience with MGA is that they are rather boring and not interested in the players complaints. I've been fairly polite and objective in my dialogue, but they seem uninterested in responding to detailed questions and documentations.
They replied the what the casino sent them and blindly believed the casino which actually lied to them on many factors about me.
There are a bunch of articles (which I have mentioned here before) that they certain people have been accused of corruption.
MGA just seems like a shady and actually dull organisation that tries to paint their grey walls by using nice and "correct" words on their not so updated website.
If you read their Code of Ethics it does not resemble at all what my experiences is with them.
A funny story was that after two and a half month sending a mail to them every second week to ask about my process in my complaint I never recieved an answer.
I was maybe just expecting a "We are working on it". Then I contacted them by chat and I got to chat with this "lovely" person that was directly rude to me and said that they recieve 80 compalints a week and they can't reply every mail.
I had sent them 5 follow-up mails and it takes 30 seconds to write"Working on it" or whatever. I told them an answer would surely remove any doubts and misunderstandings and I wished her a great weekend. Got no reply.
Wish I'd saved the transcript.
Code of Ethics failed on all parts..

Those source of wealth checks I have never experienced since in Norway they haven't done this ever, but I think they can be easily manipulated and they are also a step in the wrong direction for the "normal" players and for the casinos.
It is a turn off.

Addiction must be fought in every country and I think no one should benefit of a persons addictions as he looses control and actually are in dire need of help. No matter what kind of addiction it might be.

A problem gambler will always find a casino to play on, that is for sure. But he is responsible as well as the casino, 50/50 in my opinion. The casinos have the experience and know when things gets out of hand, there is no denying that. But the player needs to learn it by experience. When I first started playing heavily (some years ago) I got a very nice and polite VIP-manager who assisted me and provided me with small bonuses each time:
I complained about slots, when I didn't play for a while and on my pay check days.
It took me a while to learn how cynical this process actually was and I know this person had some bonuses on his salary from me. Quite sickening and I still read more and more stories where I and casinos fit in.

Sorry if I didnt make myself clear on the Customer Service part. They could never hire psychiatrics, but A.I in the future will (I have worked with it so I feel a little educated on it) work better than the Customer Service Agents in this case, or at least work in tandem. They have their directions on what a possible problem gambler would write or say and do their job accordingly, but again in my case I have been fed with bonuses each time I complain even on detailed levels to make me play more. And recieveing this info about "play safely limits". But what are really the statistics on those limits a player can set? How many problem gamblers use them? Why should they even exist? If you are a problem gambler, you should not play at all, and that could be said about any addiction. Forcing a person to only drink two glasses of beer instead of 6 makes him crave for more and puts him in a state of anxiety and/or annoyed mind. He needs to completely stop.

There will always be harms one way or another with advanced systems, but it needs to forced on the casinos by rules. And I think it would help many people. I don't think any casino would choose this of moral and ethical choices.
Maria Casino knew I was a problem gambler and still wanted me onboard (could prove it with tons of documentations). The biggest problem was that I did not know I was, and no one around me.

About fairness in slots...This is a very big topic to cover, but here is my thoughts.
If a slot is "aimed" by the operator to pay out around 96% it is not what you'd call true random because it has a forced aim for rtp.
There are still heavy discussions in the lovely math world if it is ever possible for a computer to generate true randomness by definition. It is based on gazillions of spins that you'd never be able to spin unless you spin 24/7, but then again you should be considered a problem gambler if you did so...
But it is random enough to make a balance of 10000€ dissappear in very short time if you'd play as an example 30€ bets. I did this after winning 10000€ over a month by gradually buliding balance on may bet levels.
It was hell winning those 10000€ over one month, playing in car, playing in toilet, loosing a lot, winning a lot, all bets was approx. average on 4€. Even smoked too many cigarettes during that period :laugh:
But I bloody did it and felt so proud that my willpower brought me there. Now I can move mountains I thought. Just play a few more spins...loose 1000€, no worries, loose 2000€. 45 min passed. What is happening?
And then choosing the slot that ALWAYS brought mey balance back on 3€ bets for some "random" reason. Playing 30€ bets and 7000€ lost within half an hour. Gave me two features, 14x and 32x the bet (remembering it clearly)
and some piss poor spins.
Never happened through a whole month on that slot, why now as I was playing 30€ bets? Now I don't use the word rigged, but what do you think a man thinks when this happens? From being a greek god on a mountain to become a fish in bowl
for some casino company. Well, he runs to his most dearest ex and gets comfort....and it helps a little.
The rest of my playing career was just loss after loss.

A fair slot could be something like:
-Forced cool off
-More features because people tend to quit the slot when hitting one
-Having a loss limit that resets after a certain period of time
-Decrease the teaser elements (ever played those horrible Red Tiger games? Extreme example I know :laugh:)
-Having features that does not pay 0x or those ridiculous 1x-10x the bet. Nothing provokes a player more when played 300 psins and the feature finally lands and then...
-Not allowing slots to have buy features.
-And last but not least remove Yggdrasil as game provider as they turned into the most cheesy provider I have experienced (loved Nirvana, Seasons, Vikings go Berzeerk and B&B when they actually gave features though, and yes had many big wins).

Hope it is not too many personal aspects of this and hope we are not too off topic. I am not against gambling if you'd think so, but I do believe that after a long time of research reading stories, being up to date about the industy, playing fake money spins, having dialogue with gamblers and non-gamblers I have learned a lot and it interests me aswell as I can see it interests you.
I want fairness and protection for the weak players in my utopian world. The strong and normal players will manage and by all means let them have a blast gambling.


PS: Sorry if my English is not perfect.


Cheers :)
 
I don’t know the specifics about your case, and I’m not commenting on it directly. But I will mention my experience with LeoVegas and their pro-active ability they took when it came to problem gamblers. Thankfully I am not a problem gambler, and I am not on any exclusion lists. However, as a gambler I certainly understand the angst and problems which do arise from someone who cannot stop playing.

I would say it would be extremely dangerous if the casino got to decide whose the problem gambler and who isn’t. “Oh you won €40,000? You must be a problem gambler. We have to lock your account and seize your winnings.” Having the casino decide is not a good idea. Ultimately it is up to the player, whose an adult, to set their limits and be responsible. If they are unable to stop or set limits for themselves, they need to seek treatment.

As far as LeoVegas is concerned, I would sometimes play for hours and they would have a box pop up in the middle of my sessions that said “you’ve been playing for xyz time and are +/- €xyz. Maybe it’s time to take a break? Would you like to continue playing?”

I actually thought that was a very responsible, and good idea to implement to give people a sense of how long they were playing and possibly help someone who may be struggling to stop. It also surprised me since a casino was asking someone if they wanted to stop playing? It certainly caught me off guard. At the end of the day though, the ultimate responsibility lies with the adult behind the screen engaging in gambling activity. The customer is the one who needs to be an adult and set their limits.
 
Many parts i agree at least at some level, recognizing problem gamblers and try to offer support and close account is way to go when playing is not fun anymore and cause you troubles, financially or just spending way too much time which is off from your "normal life". What i got from your story (i'm not asking any details more than you told, no need to go to all details as it's your private experience which don't need to be shared in public forum), i will agree based on this information that casino could have dealt better with in such situation when somebody is playing really big and lose this kind of amounts in half an hour (even they were winnings you were able to win at first place, after that raising bet size and playing it back in a moment is quite red flag for many), they should really check with you that you are in control of your playing and even if you have been depositing lot lately, demand to set yourself some limits in order to keep your account open (just impossible to judge particular case with limited knowledge about it but how i understood this happened) instead of offer bonuses for somebody who have lost a lot in short time. Many times it's very line written in water who is VIP player and who problem gambler because behavior can be very similar (high deposit, active player etc...) difference is and will be realized at some point hopefully, who can and who can't afford that.

These SOW check will for sure coming to be part of your gaming experience as well, sooner or later. That will help casino understand your financial situation (what really is something many don't want to share with some online casino operator, like you can see from topics here all around), anything can be manipulated, but if you are provide your few month payslips together with bank statement from few months, proof of selling property or any other documents which show your real economic situation and these are manipulated and faked, then i can't really blame casinos anymore, bit too much to expect operators to be Interpol or something to find out all information about all single player, who would like casino to call to your company and ask proof from them that you are working there with this salary? You can always blame addiction make player to do that, but again, sounds bit too extended research for casinos to assume that all how play little bit higher bets and deposit more than average are problem gamblers and giving false information when requested (you said it should be 50/50, casino/player and IMO we really start to be in that part, something what you suggest it will make it almost 100% casinos responsibility even player when requested is providing fake information, these games are for adults only who should be able to handle problems better than more vulnerable teenagers).

Still to add to that particular case you mentioned when you lost thousands in 10 minutes, that i would call mission impossible to casino to stop, or only way would be to block players automatically for certain time when somebody have lost X amount within Y time when have deposited Z withing Q time frame. Then you can really as a casino be sure that player in question will contact you in minute or less and is furious that don't have access to money on account even would want to play with money won and wishing to win very big and therefore raised bet size, some who win 5-10 000€ for example can do that and are ok and accepting that it's much bigger chance to lose it all than make it to 50-100 000€.

I still stay in my opinion, that when casino recognize possible problem gambler, player should be contacted to check he/she is ok as something concerning was seen when account was reviewed and highly recommend to look at and set some limits to account which help to keep playing fun with and exiting as some players even can end up winning which why we play these machines, fill up Euro Million coupons etc... And from there start players part, if player is not admitting that anything is wrong and is happy of level of playing, cancelling withdrawals that don't need to make other deposit as wanted still play, there have to be very extreme things happened on account that casino should close it, but again when interacting with possible problem gambler with big losses, correct way is not to straight away offer some cashback or deposit bonus before that responsible gaming and limits part.

Slots are what they are, there are quite many different types of games available where one who is interested and enjoy playing slots, should find some favorite games, or at least game providers make they best to make games players like to play as every spin bring them some revenue. These special features are very different and payout as well, if you play some high volatility game, you really can end up to lose your balance almost faster than it took to make a deposit, but winning potential is also quite big when we start to talk over 1000 times your bet. Other low volatility games you will get these features more often but you are quite sure that you don't make fortune from one special feature, was it good or not. That's also quite wrong assumption that if you have had luck in some game, you would keep having that, i think most of us in this forum who play slots have nice experience of endless dead spins with hardly any feature and once getting it, really poor payout. These games are played at same time through many many different sites, from casinos front end you click spin button and it will be forwarded to game providers game, just with details of your bet that it can be done with correct size, coin value and what ever can be chosen in different games, any player information is not sent in that packet so game itself don't really know that it's your spin and will complete it based on games algorithm and send back result, your wallet where your balance is updating on site is updated by casinos back end accordingly to result of game round, sent from game provider. We also are all different players, some like many different features, but year after year you see games like Dead or Alive, Starburst and many other very simple games to be very popular, DoA have quite nice winning potential, spins are fast and you can end up to loose your balance in very short moment, but for many players, here also, it's one game to go :) I just only play games i like to, i don' either like to buy features but i just leave these games for others to play, which is quite simple.

Adding forced timeouts or loss limits to games.... Where would you add it? If one player can easily with smile on face lose 5000€ every month when for some 200€ is too much to, also for timely manner, i've been playing quite extended game sessions when it have been rainy outside, having work trip somewhere and laying down in hotel room together with my luggage, so one of bit limited activities to kill time can be playing slots and i wouldn't be really happy if my game play in some slot or in whole casino would be forced to stop. Probably still would have some balance there what i couldn't use and just forced to deposit to other site which offer my few favorite games.

No comments about Yggdrasil, they are just one provider, their games really are working like in information page of game says. Casinos or even game providers still don't have that secret RTP button to make games give less winnings and even less possible for certain player as server where game is running will can't know who players spin what spin is, as said earlier, only necessary information sent there in packet which don't contain any personal information where identify player. When you lose, and do very bad compare to your previous sessions where you ended up to be lucky, you easily feel that something happened for game, there are many posts for rigged games or they stop paying out and what so ever, but don't even want to start about that topic as never have seen anything else but players complaining that this game is not paying out like it should..... We all know that you lose and win, but without conspiracy theories :)
 
I don’t know the specifics about your case, and I’m not commenting on it directly. But I will mention my experience with LeoVegas and their pro-active ability they took when it came to problem gamblers. Thankfully I am not a problem gambler, and I am not on any exclusion lists. However, as a gambler I certainly understand the angst and problems which do arise from someone who cannot stop playing

EbertScore I am truly happy you yourself haven't experienced the darker side of gambling for a longer period.

The casinos obviously already decide who is a problem gambler or not by many factors, but it needs to be done even more professional in the future which I commented more specific on in last posts.
This pop-up box does not exist for a problem gambler. But it benefits more than it hurts of course.

I am certain many casinos wouldn't exist if adults were responsible about how they spend their money. Most might not exist at all.
All about balance in life.


“Make money your god, and it will plague you like the devil.”
-Henry Fielding



Many parts i agree at least at some level, recognizing problem gamblers and try to offer support and close account is way to go when playing is not fun anymore and cause you troubles, financially or just spending way too much time which is off from your "normal life". What i got from your story (i'm not asking any details more than you told, no need to go to all details as it's your private experience which don't need to be shared in public forum), i will agree based on this information that casino could have dealt better with in such situation when somebody is playing really big and lose this kind of amounts in half an hour (even they were winnings you were able to win at first place, after that raising bet size and playing it back in a moment is quite red flag for many), they should really check with you that you are in control of your playing and even if you have been depositing lot lately, demand to set yourself some limits in order to keep your account open (just impossible to judge particular case with limited knowledge about it but how i understood this happened) instead of offer bonuses for somebody who have lost a lot in short time. Many times it's very line written in water who is VIP player and who problem gambler because behavior can be very similar (high deposit, active player etc...) difference is and will be realized at some point hopefully, who can and who can't afford that.

Yes, we do agree. The casinos needs to recognize problem gamblers on a higher level and be even more responsible.
But it should not be unfair for their business.

If you need details just ask. I will be quite open about it.
They could have dealt better with my case definitely. They contacted me after about two months of playing a lot, but I didn't loose so much during that period.
It was this guy talking on phone just being generic in his questions and I thought it was fine they called. I tried to talk about other things that I had questions about.
Bonuses, how the business works, how often new slots are released etc.
But not contacting me after the heavy loss which was two months later seems to me to be a contradiction to how they opearte being a "responsible" casino.
You can bet I have complained several times since I started playing and before that loss and after, and every time I got a mix of these:
"I understand your frustration / it is normal to loose 7000€ in average each month / here is a 100€ bonus to calm you down / play responsible / I've checked with the provider and your spins have no errors" (yeah right they checked...)

Now, I do not think casinos should be Interpool, I was just commenting/questioning the effectiveness of SOW. Hopefully it is.

For the big loss in short time, it is not something I am mad for now. If you had a formula which you mentioned, you could have implemented it as a failsafe for maybe preventing stupid actions like I did.
This is all about the ones that are in the danger zone of spending beyond their control, and it is a massive growing base, that is why it needs heavy focus.
And do you think it should exist a fast spin button? They even differ so much between providers.
To sum this heavy loss up I think the player are responsible of course, but it does not take responsibility away from the provider of the product that CAN and WILL make many people addicted.
It is not only about the slots how they operate and how much you loose and win, but it also about how the VIP-agents etc. handle you as a customer/player.

When you choose to deposit money at a casino you have made a contract with the casino.
You buy an experience/investement that is not certain.
It is more certain that you will loose your investement than make it become profitable by statistics and odds.
Over time and the more you invest it's even less probable to make all investements turn into profit by statistics and odds.

Agree with you that casinos should contact players yes, but also evolve in that area. Everything can be set into a more and more robust system when needed.

I think I played over thousands of different slots so I know most providers that are avaiable in Europe at least.
Thank you for informing me on how volatility works and DoA...:p

For forced timouts or loss limits, they do exist as a players choice on most casinos, but not in the slots themselves?
There could be a lovely formula here as well. I am not giving a concrete conclusion, just providing ideas and thoughts.

Let's just see what happens the next five or so years. Where is gambling headed? Will it be more accetable? More problem gamblers?
More controlled by the government like here in Norway where foreign casinos actually is not allowed to transfer money?
The law from 2017 May says that foreign casinos can't send or recieve money from norwegians, but the casinos are always a step ahead of these amateurs (sorry to say so) using other payment providers.
In Norway the government wants all gambling activity to be controlled by the Norsk Tipping (Norwegian Betting) which is a ridiculous state organisation with the worst slots/games you'd ever play and structure wise.
No wonder people here are running to more professional providers.

I was being a little ironic about Yggdrasil, but they are becoming more cheesy and casualised. They have to in order to valid my point of making gambling more accepted and reach the masses.
Yes casinos have a RTP-button, it is not a secret one; i.e Play'N Go slots have different RTP across casino sites.
Let's not about rigged games unless you want to play hundreds of thousands of spins on Vikings go Berzerk with me on real money :laugh:
"Choose a treasure chest" Love it when you get a choice that is predermined and it does not say in the manual :laugh:
Great music in the slot though :thumbsup:

“He who loses money, loses much; He who loses a friend, loses much more; He who loses faith, loses all.”
-
Eleanor Roosevelt
 
Last edited:
It seems that we both are bit repeating ourselves, and maybe bit off topic as well :) As said, i fully agree with you that recognizing problem gamblers and monitoring player behavior from different reports and other possible signs is important and they shouldn't be playing if they are not in control themselves, just recognizing them and throw all responsibility to casinos is bit tough, if player is contacted, asked that he/she is ok and recommend to use limits available but player deny to have any problems, it really need then some extreme signs of really severe gambling problem to take up decision to close or self-exclude players account and the fact that people have very different economical situations, you probably have much more money than i do so where that line will be if one player have fortune of millions or even hundred thousands and other one working with small salary (like me), i can say that for me it hearts if i lose one or two thousand euros in short time, but for other person that might be just fun playing, there is not kind of one size fit to all concept where to make these limits to take that big action like close account even player refuse to admit it.

But let's see what in near future will happen when demands of due diligence checks including SOW is more strict and demanded, for UK it is already quite (even too far if you ask from many here and elsewhere) strict and player protection have been taking quite big steps everywhere if you compare online casinos 5 years ago, Rome was not built in a day and i afraid there is not silver bullet what would solve problem gambling issues 100% sure, believe or not, many casino operators are making quite much effort on this. Automatic account blocks are just really harsh to do for players (again with these extreme occasions) who lost X amount in Z time, line where you make it can be much for me but pocket money for you some other person. You said that it should be up from both, player and casino, haven't really see where players responsibility is if denying to have any issues when requested, faking financial situation etc.... these suggestions seems more to throw it all for casinos to follow and stop people playing and in kind of scenario it feels not 100% right to demand it when there is no any cooperation from player to admit having some problems.

By that "secret RTP button" i meant that casino or game provider can just make some one to lose, was just a joke as you hear it quite often. Game provider don't really care who is winning because always somebody is and they have no control on it who it will be. All operators are demanded to advise about games RTP accordingly, they can't just change it on daily basis how ever they feel to, it's quite transparent.

But that's it from me about this topic, i hope you see some improvements about online casino operations which can help vulnerable people, but making it 100% bullet proof will always be impossible :)
 
It seems that we both are bit repeating ourselves, and maybe bit off topic as well :) As said, i fully agree with you that recognizing problem gamblers and monitoring player behavior from different reports and other possible signs is important and they shouldn't be playing if they are not in control themselves, just recognizing them and throw all responsibility to casinos is bit tough, if player is contacted, asked that he/she is ok and recommend to use limits available but player deny to have any problems, it really need then some extreme signs of really severe gambling problem to take up decision to close or self-exclude players account and the fact that people have very different economical situations, you probably have much more money than i do so where that line will be if one player have fortune of millions or even hundred thousands and other one working with small salary (like me), i can say that for me it hearts if i lose one or two thousand euros in short time, but for other person that might be just fun playing, there is not kind of one size fit to all concept where to make these limits to take that big action like close account even player refuse to admit it.

But let's see what in near future will happen when demands of due diligence checks including SOW is more strict and demanded, for UK it is already quite (even too far if you ask from many here and elsewhere) strict and player protection have been taking quite big steps everywhere if you compare online casinos 5 years ago, Rome was not built in a day and i afraid there is not silver bullet what would solve problem gambling issues 100% sure, believe or not, many casino operators are making quite much effort on this. Automatic account blocks are just really harsh to do for players (again with these extreme occasions) who lost X amount in Z time, line where you make it can be much for me but pocket money for you some other person. You said that it should be up from both, player and casino, haven't really see where players responsibility is if denying to have any issues when requested, faking financial situation etc.... these suggestions seems more to throw it all for casinos to follow and stop people playing and in kind of scenario it feels not 100% right to demand it when there is no any cooperation from player to admit having some problems.

By that "secret RTP button" i meant that casino or game provider can just make some one to lose, was just a joke as you hear it quite often. Game provider don't really care who is winning because always somebody is and they have no control on it who it will be. All operators are demanded to advise about games RTP accordingly, they can't just change it on daily basis how ever they feel to, it's quite transparent.

But that's it from me about this topic, i hope you see some improvements about online casino operations which can help vulnerable people, but making it 100% bullet proof will always be impossible :)



We agree on many aspects :)

If you'd know how I totally wrecked my economy over three years, you'd be really surprised, but as long as faith is there a man can keep going.

My long term goal in life (being not very far from 40 years old) I do want to work with addiction and especially gambling addiction.
I am currently a little off that in my profession, but I do think I have lot of experience on the humanity level from past jobs and current job, and
of course heavy addiction experience.

Thank you for the discussions and your viewpoints Slottery.
It is nice to be able to discuss this for me and hopefully for others on a decent level.
And I am sorry if we went too far off OP's topic.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Accredited Casinos

Read about our rating system and how it's done.
Back
Top