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Feedback Leovegas takes advantage of problem gamblers?

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by Solaris, Jun 19, 2018.

    Jun 19, 2018
  1. Solaris

    Solaris Newbie member PABinit

    Occupation:
    Between facts and fiction is balance
    Location:
    Norway
    This is a thread to post my experiences with Leovegas and my gamling issues which lead to huge losses.
    It is not a post to warn about or encourage gambling in any sense, that will be up to those who reads it to make their own mind about.

    After being gambling free for a couple of months I think it is important to go back in time and understand what really happened. After all I lost 80'000€ playing on Leovegas from May 2017 to February 2018.
    I loved playing...at times, because most of the times I was destined to loose money it seems.

    So I dug up my old mails to Leovegas and manage to categorize the worst dialogues I had. I must say I did not recognize myself in many of these and got a little embarrassed when reading them. Oh, how sudden loss of money can affect a persons mood...

    Here are the highlights:

    -Mail sent 21st of September 2017 where I demand 10% back of everything I have lost since May.

    -Mail sent 28th of September 2017 where I state that Leovegas is making fraud against customers through marketing.

    -Mail sent 11th November 2017 where I state that I do not win anything anymore (it is hopeless) and suggest instability in the gambling business.

    -Mail sent 27th of January 2018 where I am very angry because I continue to loose massive amounts of money.

    -Mail sent 16th of February 2018 with document on how much I have lost in average each month and the reply is "looks normal". Is it normal to loose 7000€ in average a month?

    -Mail sent 19th of February 2018 where I suggest that the slots are rigged when playing high spins and low spins.

    After this I sent a very angry mail to the leaders in Leovegas and then they closed my account.
    I have also not listed all the bonuses I was sent to try to comfort all my losses, but in fact made me play more.


    Leovegas have stated that they followed every step to make sure they were delivering a responsible gaming experience to me by:
    1. Calling me when I started to spend a lot of money asking if I was comfortable.
    2. Suggesting to use Leo Safeplay when I complained.

    Would a problem gambler care about what Leovegas suggests?
    Would a problem gambler loose his mind and send very harsh content in the mails?
    Why would Leovegas contantly send small bonuses when I complained?


    I hope big spenders and all players for that sake can be treated better in the future. Gambling isn't going anywhere, but there should be a fine balance between operators and players. There are huge responsibilities on both sides. I have not seen this, only the greedy side that does not care for potential personal issues players can develope.
    After all Leovegas has been penalised not so long ago for marketing towards problem gamblers which I have seen no comment on from them.


    Thank you for reading and have a lovely summer!
     
    adamjames likes this.
  2. Jun 19, 2018
  3. nutnut

    nutnut 30 day suspension - trollish behavior

    Occupation:
    IP consultant
    Location:
    england
    Sorry but I see nothing they did wrong. The fact they called you to check you are spending what you can afford suggests they did the right thing, you obviously answered yes and carried on. So what are they suppose to do?

    All the rest of your post is just nothing but being annoyed at losing the 80,000 euro which I'm guessing you can afford? If not that is your problem to sort. I actually appreciate bonus offers after losing is a way of gambling but not risking as much and if you had won big off that offer your thread would not exist.

    1) Accept it was you who choose to lose all that money
    2) Accept you need to control your losses
    3) Accept you have a gambling problem and sort it

    The casino are not mind readers or baby sitters, not meaning to be harsh but it's tiresome how casinos are made to look bad when players lose large amounts then claim it was a sign to get help.
     
    dpp00, Tirilej and jacko10 like this.
  4. Jun 19, 2018
  5. Solaris

    Solaris Newbie member PABinit

    Occupation:
    Between facts and fiction is balance
    Location:
    Norway

    Yes, it seem that you got it worked out looking at a very easy side to the matter and do not present
    any depth to your answer which actually could be considered provokative since you are so confident
    about protecting the casino.

    You could also say that they did do wrong considering the bad communication between the casino and the player.
    Why even start asking if a player is ok with the amount spent if not for the sake of caring for the players?
    I do not think you have an understanding between running a business fair and running a business trying to be fair
    looking at your answer.
    If you think there are any ethics and morality in this industry, you are very wrong.
    I have plenty of examples/articles on how casinos run their business towards big spenders.
    You think I'd just post something out of my own annoyance without any research?

    I'm sorry to be harsh against you, I do not expect agreement, but it's tiresome listening to people trying to protect casinos as
    if they work in a casino themselves, and do not actually have any in depth understanding of the industry on the player side.
    "Mind reading" is measured by data. That is why they called me in the first place...and it is very easy to spot a potential risk player
    when you deposit 10 times a day in average without any withdrawals for a longer period.

    You are not here to discuss one of the bigger topics in the casino industry? Just to complain to someone who posting something you experience as negative towards a casino, right?
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2018
  6. Jun 19, 2018
  7. TheSam469

    TheSam469 New Member

    Location:
    European Union
    I'm sure nutnut was just stating his opinion based on what you presented in your original post.
    "It is not a post to warn about or encourage gambling in any sense, that will be up to those who reads it to make their own mind about."

    Just saying
     
  8. Jun 19, 2018
  9. GoldenGhoul

    GoldenGhoul Full Member

    Occupation:
    Freelancer, translator, IT
    Location:
    EU
    That's all well and good but there is one basic question here: what would you say were they supposed to do? Suppose they closed your account, would that be ok or just make you mad they closed it? What then about rich people who can gamble this amount of money away no problem? Because of course casinos will want them to keep playing - this is the business they're in. So maybe send requests for source of wealth, but let me tell you that this is already annoying players by the dozens and is probably going to get worse - hard to say whether tha's a good or bad thing overall I admit, but many people are already getting annoyed by having to divulge private information. And yes they called you but if you say you have no problem then nutnut is 100% right - what happens next is your doing. It's like with an illness - I had issues with people that needed psychiatric help or to stop drinking but simply refused it and there is nothing you can do then - if you are not willing to stop yourself then you can always at the very least find a new place to play. Finally, you admit yourself reading some of your old messages you feel like it's not you - accusing them of fraud, slots of being rigged and so on, and here I agree with one thing - maybe this should make the casino more aware of the problem because you clearly acted like a problem gambler, but here we are back at the beginning - what were they supposed to do and how would that have helped you if you could always just play somewhere else?
     
    Jasminebed likes this.
  10. Jun 19, 2018
  11. Solaris

    Solaris Newbie member PABinit

    Occupation:
    Between facts and fiction is balance
    Location:
    Norway

    Thank you for a good answer and to answer your questions from my view point:

    -They should have closed it temporary giving the reason that I might be a problem gambler.
    Would it help? Maybe a little. Maybe very much. At least they would have shown ethical actions which they barely show towards players.
    -My point exactly is that they are simply running a business, but it's the worst kind of legal business for a consumers who looses (and most do)
    That is why there should be more strict rules. I know they will come, but in the meantime casinos do their most to do business even if it triggers
    addiction to people.
    -People with addcitions must admit they have one to be cured faster I agree, but it seems very short to say "if they don't admit it, there is nothing we can do".
    There are plenty ways of helping people in denial. A broad topic indeed, so let's stick to gambling addiction.
    Here is a very easy understandable article that links to several help organistations:
    You must register/login in order to see the link.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2018
    GoldenGhoul likes this.
  12. Jun 19, 2018
  13. GoldenGhoul

    GoldenGhoul Full Member

    Occupation:
    Freelancer, translator, IT
    Location:
    EU
    This can be said about many things that cause addiciton or harm, gambling being just one of them, but I digress. I see another problem here though, namely that what these strict rules often tend to result in is that non-problem gamblers get "punished" by them more than they help the problem gamblers, case in point being the recent source of wealth requests issued against players, making them go through hoops, send private client information via mail and so on - clearly these things are not easy to implement and it's never going to work perfectly (or even properly). I could draw a parallel to anti-piracy measures in video games that hurt buyers with needless restrictions while pirates crack it quickly anyway. So I don't really think that "more strict rules" are likely to be a good thing, though it would be nice to be proven wrong.

    And all things said and done this could lead to philosophical debates about just how evil gambling is, and probably would get a lot of advocates around the world for downright banning it, which is likely why I seem to find myself more in the "people should be responsible for their own actions" camp than in the "casinos should protect players" camp - though they both certainly do have a lot of merit.
     
  14. Jun 19, 2018
  15. Gaz237

    Gaz237 Senior Member MM

    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    chelmsford UK
    You should of pointed out, in your original post, That you only want replies from people who agree with you.
     
    Tirilej likes this.
  16. Jun 19, 2018
  17. Solaris

    Solaris Newbie member PABinit

    Occupation:
    Between facts and fiction is balance
    Location:
    Norway
    Thanks for the funny reply.
    I'm sure you have a lot to provide in a discussion like this, but I disagree with your comment.
    I do not intend to gain support and agreement even though it might be as black and white for you and that person who replied me first.
     
  18. Jun 19, 2018
  19. Solaris

    Solaris Newbie member PABinit

    Occupation:
    Between facts and fiction is balance
    Location:
    Norway

    I was not clear enough about strict rules, that I admit.
    Casinos now work after a well scripted model to prevent people to use more money than they can afford.
    At least that is what the law forces the casinos to. But this model have in my opinion a very big potential to be more advanced. And of course we are talking about A.I
    which casinos already use for their machine learning. You can by these elements actually in a very early process predict a potential problem gamber, thus preventing many
    and tragic stories, but will the casinos do so? Not until they are forced to I believe.

    I am in the camp between, I think it should be well balanced, and that is the hardest work for both players and casino providers.
     
  20. Jun 19, 2018
  21. Deeplay

    Deeplay New World Order CAG mm1 webmeister

    Occupation:
    Works For Self
    Location:
    The biG Eu
    I feel for the OP i really do. 80k is a massive loss for most people. But in the end its down to the person to take control of there own gambling and there is more and more help out there now with different organizations , SE / DL but the player has to take there own responsibility. To truly beat a gambling addiction you need to take responsibility for your own actions. Block yourself everywhere online and put as many hurdles between you and the casino as you possibly can. Sure it has taken online casinos a long time to get there shit together when it comes RG , but finally things are changing. And certainly for UK players more and more protection is being implemented and i think its only a matter of time before the rest of the EU follows.

    Harsh fact is even if Leo Vegas had closed your account earlier on, because you were in the throws of your addiction you would have just found another casino to spunk your money away. Which is why you need to work on the problem from within.

    I will forever be a hapless addict because I love the game, but im back to cut throat DL Limits, and using TAB when I am feeling like tilt loometh on the dark horizon. I use ever safety net I can to enjoy my degenerate pass time - so that I can actually enjoy it. But hey thats just me. OP work on yourself and forget Leo Vegas and what they did or did not do. It dont matter now - does it ? what matters is you ensuring you never gamble again ever.

    With you the best
     
    Tirilej likes this.
  22. Jun 19, 2018
  23. Solaris

    Solaris Newbie member PABinit

    Occupation:
    Between facts and fiction is balance
    Location:
    Norway
    Thanks for the funny reply.
    I'm sure you have a lot to provide in a discussion like this, but I disagree with your comment.
    I do not intend to gain support and agreement even though it might be as black and white for you and that person who replied me first.
     
  24. Jun 19, 2018
  25. Solaris

    Solaris Newbie member PABinit

    Occupation:
    Between facts and fiction is balance
    Location:
    Norway

    Thank you for interesting and nice feedback.

    I have defintely done my "work" as a gambler in my life, but there are so many who haven't.
    I am working on a quite large project that revolves around this topic, but I can't get into details yet.
    That is why I appreciate feedback from experienced gamblers as well as new ones, even those who sees all black and white.
    This is how the world evolves, people do great wrong (or right), learn from it and pass it on. But you never let it go as it is a part of you forever.
     

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