- Joined
- Jun 30, 1998
- Location
- Bierland
Nothing new yet - there was a weekend in everybody's way
Locked Account at Royal Vegas & Vegas Towers
- Thread starter cbe2869
- Start date
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2007
- Location
- Canada
I sent it to your "Vortran007" message box. Is that okay?
- Joined
- Jun 30, 1998
- Location
- Bierland
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2007
- Location
- Kuala Lumpur
Hi Casinomeister,
Did you receive my PM about a couple of weeks ago? They had made a mistake on my case.
Regards
Did you receive my PM about a couple of weeks ago? They had made a mistake on my case.
Regards
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2007
- Location
- Canada
Casinomeister - I'll resend my message to your proper mailbox.
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2007
- Location
- Netherlands
FL PAB
Hello everybody, nice to be back!
Are there any players who have seen their accounts unlocked by FL or who have their winnings and/or deposit seen cash-out by know? I am asking since I see a lot of PAB on the PAB-list of march concerning FL
I just received a message mine PAB is just forwarded to FL...I will let everybody know what happens,
I sended them an email telling them (and linking to here) I posted al my emails and that I am not the only one with trouble,
I did not get a respons back
cheers!
Hello everybody, nice to be back!
Are there any players who have seen their accounts unlocked by FL or who have their winnings and/or deposit seen cash-out by know? I am asking since I see a lot of PAB on the PAB-list of march concerning FL
I just received a message mine PAB is just forwarded to FL...I will let everybody know what happens,
I sended them an email telling them (and linking to here) I posted al my emails and that I am not the only one with trouble,
I did not get a respons back
cheers!
- Joined
- Jun 30, 1998
- Location
- Bierland
Admin Note:
Just a heads up that I'm not accepting any further complaints concerning Fortune Lounge - for this issue or any others. Please contact Tex Rees at
Just a heads up that I'm not accepting any further complaints concerning Fortune Lounge - for this issue or any others. Please contact Tex Rees at
You do not have permission to view link
Log in or register now.
if you have any outstanding problems - thanks.
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2005
uh oh.......
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2007
- Location
- Netherlands
Uhhmz, why aren't you accepting any FL problems/PAB's if we may ask? if you want to inform us ofcourse...
cheers!
cheers!
- Joined
- Jun 30, 1998
- Location
- Bierland
Because they are dead wrong in this matter, and they have not listened to reason. They insist that there is such thing as "bonus abuse" and I insist that there are only poorly written terms and conditions.
I feel like I am talking to a brick wall.
The casino has every right in the world to pick and choose who their customers are. But once the casino makes the offer, accepts the bet, and the player plays according to the terms and conditions meeting the wagering requirements, then the casino ought to honor the winnings. It's the casino that is responsible for making the rules. If they make mistakes by forgetting to say that making a single bet on Blackjack is not allowed, then it is allowed. It is not the responsibility of the player to try and guess what the casino considers "abuse".
(I've said this before) subjective language has no place in enforcing rules. Casinos can enforce policies by disallowing these players access to the casino, or deny bonuses in the future, but it is unacceptable to garnish winnings after the player has met the wagering requirements of the bonus.
We understand that the casino wishes to bring in new players who will remain loyal by them offering bonuses. But the bottom line is that the casino writes the terms for these bonuses, the casino should be expected to write terms that protect it from players they don't want.
I'm getting ready to go on a two week family vacation starting tomorrow, and this is the last thing that I want to be dealing with before taking off. I'm watching what was once a stellar operation pull a total roguish move that just makes your head spin.
They should have just admitted that they made a mistake, and went from there. If they didn't want anyone to play French Roulette, they should have said so to begin with.
I expect them to see the light before the next two weeks are over. It's not too late for them to come to their senses. For them to set this sort of precedence can not be tolerated. This is not good for the industry whatsoever.
A funny thing occurred to me: what if these thousands of players didn't take the bonus, deposited $50, made one bet on BJ, and immediately cashed out if they won. Would this be considered "deposit" abuse?
Well said, 'Meister - I agree with your comments here.
Unless there is a real case of fraud or other crooked behaviour by the player/players, or a clear breach of the T&Cs the casino is responsible for honouring the rules governing the promos it offers which, as you point out, is its sole responsibility to design and publicise.
This *bonus abuse* misperception that too many operators still seem to carry around with them actually has no basis in fact.
Operators draw up the promo boundaries, and they have all the leeway in the world to put into them what they expect from the player. If they do not tell the player unambiguously what they expect from him or her, they cannot expect to make the rules up as they go along when the results are not to their liking.
This applies particularly where the casino staff have screwed up in either designing the promo, issuing it or moderating it....and of late we have seen some pretty daft promo mistakes by casino managements.
It is really sad to see major and well established online casino groups in this industry stoop to these levels to recover their own errors.
Unless there is a real case of fraud or other crooked behaviour by the player/players, or a clear breach of the T&Cs the casino is responsible for honouring the rules governing the promos it offers which, as you point out, is its sole responsibility to design and publicise.
This *bonus abuse* misperception that too many operators still seem to carry around with them actually has no basis in fact.
Operators draw up the promo boundaries, and they have all the leeway in the world to put into them what they expect from the player. If they do not tell the player unambiguously what they expect from him or her, they cannot expect to make the rules up as they go along when the results are not to their liking.
This applies particularly where the casino staff have screwed up in either designing the promo, issuing it or moderating it....and of late we have seen some pretty daft promo mistakes by casino managements.
It is really sad to see major and well established online casino groups in this industry stoop to these levels to recover their own errors.
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2005
- Location
- England
Thanks for the updates CM, hopefully ecogra will deal with these rogues. It's a shame, a formerly respectable group going to pieces will affect all casino groups, how can players trust anyone. A real shame for the industry.
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2007
- Location
- Across the pond
Rogue them, they deserve it 100%
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2007
- Location
- Netherlands
Yess, well said!
I visited the website for the first time. I will check out what the eCOGRA-group can do for us and will post any findings over here...this is absolute madness...I and others said before, this is definitely not legal. If it would become a head-to-head case they don't make a change!
I will definitely contact eCOGRA
If it doesn't work I will definitley try to build a webpage and group a lot of people to form a case. Good for my study either...this really motivates me to learn how to build "client-server"(PHP-MySQL) site webpages and my study of law will increase because of it...hope it doesn't and out that way...but a man has to do what a man has to do. It is way less important but it feels maybe the same like that country zimbabwe with that "presedent" Mugabe, where opposition is crashed down...you have to stand up and will have to keep getting up for your rights or else you end up with nothing!
I think the CM doesn't emmediatly put them on their "rogue"-list. IF they would do that, our chances will only drop...Have a nice vacation and hope you hear somthing when you get back!
I visited the website for the first time. I will check out what the eCOGRA-group can do for us and will post any findings over here...this is absolute madness...I and others said before, this is definitely not legal. If it would become a head-to-head case they don't make a change!
I will definitely contact eCOGRA
If it doesn't work I will definitley try to build a webpage and group a lot of people to form a case. Good for my study either...this really motivates me to learn how to build "client-server"(PHP-MySQL) site webpages and my study of law will increase because of it...hope it doesn't and out that way...but a man has to do what a man has to do. It is way less important but it feels maybe the same like that country zimbabwe with that "presedent" Mugabe, where opposition is crashed down...you have to stand up and will have to keep getting up for your rights or else you end up with nothing!
I think the CM doesn't emmediatly put them on their "rogue"-list. IF they would do that, our chances will only drop...Have a nice vacation and hope you hear somthing when you get back!
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2007
- Location
- Los Angeles
Bryan, your thinking on this situation is the -only- rational conclusion a sane person could come to. Therefore, are these people sane...? 
From what I have learned from reading around, is that 'Bonus Abuse' can occur without breaking the T&C regarding actual gameplay. Those abusers are creating accounts and going for that one large win. If they lose, they create another account and try again. Once they win, they 'legitimize' that one account and try to cash out. This situation, however, does break the T&C regarding multiple accounts. Clearly it is very difficult for the casino to deal with 'legitimizing' each account -before- they allow bonus play. I certainly thought all of the 'investigation' process was about trying to figure out who was abusing the accounts T&C. That appeared to be next to impossible to sort out using Monday Morning Quarterbacking techniques, so they just wiped the entire slate clean by stating that the gameplay T&C was broken. This, of course, swept up a lot of innocent people who weren't abusing accounts.
Essentially, their position seems to be: throw all of it out and start over.
Unfortunately, this is neither moral or legal. If they have a new process in place to better secure their interests, then they need to pay up (and 'lesson learned'), then move forward. I'm quite sure they can weed out quite a few account abusers and pay out to those who played fair and square. One large wager is no different than 50 smaller wagers in the end. This casino (or group) is now faced with a very bad PR problem. They are saying "make a deposit, then only gamble where our House Edge has a chance to win in the long run. If you win with one lucky wager, you are not welcome here and we will confiscate your winnings." That's THEFT, flat-out, and that's not good within an industry already mired with challenges. Hopefully their own industry peers will pressure them...
- Keith
From what I have learned from reading around, is that 'Bonus Abuse' can occur without breaking the T&C regarding actual gameplay. Those abusers are creating accounts and going for that one large win. If they lose, they create another account and try again. Once they win, they 'legitimize' that one account and try to cash out. This situation, however, does break the T&C regarding multiple accounts. Clearly it is very difficult for the casino to deal with 'legitimizing' each account -before- they allow bonus play. I certainly thought all of the 'investigation' process was about trying to figure out who was abusing the accounts T&C. That appeared to be next to impossible to sort out using Monday Morning Quarterbacking techniques, so they just wiped the entire slate clean by stating that the gameplay T&C was broken. This, of course, swept up a lot of innocent people who weren't abusing accounts.
Essentially, their position seems to be: throw all of it out and start over.
Unfortunately, this is neither moral or legal. If they have a new process in place to better secure their interests, then they need to pay up (and 'lesson learned'), then move forward. I'm quite sure they can weed out quite a few account abusers and pay out to those who played fair and square. One large wager is no different than 50 smaller wagers in the end. This casino (or group) is now faced with a very bad PR problem. They are saying "make a deposit, then only gamble where our House Edge has a chance to win in the long run. If you win with one lucky wager, you are not welcome here and we will confiscate your winnings." That's THEFT, flat-out, and that's not good within an industry already mired with challenges. Hopefully their own industry peers will pressure them...
- Keith
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2007
- Location
- Netherlands
LOL, I never intented this should happen
I totally agree with GOCC. Lets keep it to the subject!
Any news?!
I totally agree with GOCC. Lets keep it to the subject!
Any news?!
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2007
- Location
- Across the pond
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2004
- Location
- Bexhill on sea, England
I will give them the same time to see if there is any possibility of them admitting their mistake.
If not, they will also be moving from my recommended to NOT very quickly
Ripping off legitimate players is not acceptable under any circumstances.
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2007
- Location
- Kuala Lumpur
Hey guys, I got back my deposit.
Short story short, I e-mailed them again, I asked them what is going on cause it's been some time now. They say, it's been locked due to bonus abuse and me trying to "defraud" the casino. I said that's noncense, I am just trying to win in a way I see appropriate, and if that's abuse, please change your t&c. They say that their decision is final. I reply back that I would take this incident to the eCogra and just let's have a peaceful resort by refunding back my deposit of $60. They say okay and I got my money back.
Regards
Short story short, I e-mailed them again, I asked them what is going on cause it's been some time now. They say, it's been locked due to bonus abuse and me trying to "defraud" the casino. I said that's noncense, I am just trying to win in a way I see appropriate, and if that's abuse, please change your t&c. They say that their decision is final. I reply back that I would take this incident to the eCogra and just let's have a peaceful resort by refunding back my deposit of $60. They say okay and I got my money back.
Regards
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2004
- Location
- United Kingdom
So
So FL are trying to confiscate deposits now just because they don't like your style of play. It is only outright fraud that should ever be met with confiscation of deposits, and even then they must be certain, not just "suspicion"
Perhaps eCogra should start giving a seal for T & C clarity, as well as the general one for casinos.
So FL are trying to confiscate deposits now just because they don't like your style of play. It is only outright fraud that should ever be met with confiscation of deposits, and even then they must be certain, not just "suspicion"
Perhaps eCogra should start giving a seal for T & C clarity, as well as the general one for casinos.
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2007
- Location
- Suckramento
I also got my deposit back via check, but they are still holding over $500 of my winnings. These guys are thieves, plain and simple. I PAB'ed, but I havent complained to eCOGRA yet, but I will do that today since it sounds like Casinomeister has hit a roadblock.
I wonder if these guys care that they are going to be on the rogue list? I guess not.
I wonder if these guys care that they are going to be on the rogue list? I guess not.
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2007
- Location
- Across the pond
They sure should be, this is outright theft.
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2007
- Location
- Greece
I also posted a PAB 10 days ago but still no news.I also gonna refer it to eCOGRA
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2007
- Location
- Netherlands
Good News
I mailed FL yesterday and asked if they had maybe changed their minds. They said NO...so I said I saw no other option than to contact eCOGRA.
I got a mail back, they said: sorry but you will not get your deposit back
Anyhow, I just looked to my neteller and it seems I have got my deposit back of the 2 accounts + 50 extra :s
I will post my email conversation with FL later....gonna watch soccer now
cheers!
I mailed FL yesterday and asked if they had maybe changed their minds. They said NO...so I said I saw no other option than to contact eCOGRA.
I got a mail back, they said: sorry but you will not get your deposit back
Anyhow, I just looked to my neteller and it seems I have got my deposit back of the 2 accounts + 50 extra :s
I will post my email conversation with FL later....gonna watch soccer now
cheers!
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2004
- Location
- United Kingdom
Grounds
On what grounds are they saying they have the right to steal the deposit. In effect this is no voiding the wager, but changing the outcome from one where the player wins to where the casino wins. This is just as bad as rigging the games at the point of play. If eCogra allow this, they will suffer further loss of credibility. If there is widescale ripping off going on, the casino industry is getting the better of it. I am sure more players' dollars are ripped off by rogue casinos operating outside of any meaningful regulatory framework than casino dollars being lost to fraudulent players.
At least in this case, they said one thing, and did another, and you got the deposit back.
The industry only have themselves to blame now they find it near impossible to gain the trust of NEW players (without the use of really big "loss leader" bonuses), who have no prior experience of whether they are going to get paid if they win by the groups, and only see what people write in forums about good treatment and bad treatment. Players who feel wronged post more vociferously than those who were paid on time. Getting paid is what is expected, one doesn't sing the praises of a group just because they pay what they owe on a bet, it is just expected of them.
On what grounds are they saying they have the right to steal the deposit. In effect this is no voiding the wager, but changing the outcome from one where the player wins to where the casino wins. This is just as bad as rigging the games at the point of play. If eCogra allow this, they will suffer further loss of credibility. If there is widescale ripping off going on, the casino industry is getting the better of it. I am sure more players' dollars are ripped off by rogue casinos operating outside of any meaningful regulatory framework than casino dollars being lost to fraudulent players.
At least in this case, they said one thing, and did another, and you got the deposit back.
The industry only have themselves to blame now they find it near impossible to gain the trust of NEW players (without the use of really big "loss leader" bonuses), who have no prior experience of whether they are going to get paid if they win by the groups, and only see what people write in forums about good treatment and bad treatment. Players who feel wronged post more vociferously than those who were paid on time. Getting paid is what is expected, one doesn't sing the praises of a group just because they pay what they owe on a bet, it is just expected of them.
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2007
- Location
- Norway
MY CASE HAS BEEN RESOLVED!
It seems like my case has finaly been resolved! It looks like the pressure from eCOGRA was to much for Fortune Lounge. 10 hours ago my win was transfered back to my NETeller account. Finally! I havent got a mail from eCOGRA yet, but my guess is that eCOGRA made a ruling on Fortune Lounge that they had no other choice but to pay me, as I didn't break a single rule in their T&C.. (And by locking my account they missed out on some action asweel (see winning screenshots thread) )
I reckon there wil be posted a Casinomeister statement of some kind somewhere, but I just wanted to let you all know that I have now been paid and the case has been resolved, atleast on my part.
One quote comes into my mind right now.
Homer Simpson: Beeeeeer
It seems like my case has finaly been resolved! It looks like the pressure from eCOGRA was to much for Fortune Lounge. 10 hours ago my win was transfered back to my NETeller account. Finally! I havent got a mail from eCOGRA yet, but my guess is that eCOGRA made a ruling on Fortune Lounge that they had no other choice but to pay me, as I didn't break a single rule in their T&C.. (And by locking my account they missed out on some action asweel (see winning screenshots thread
) ) I reckon there wil be posted a Casinomeister statement of some kind somewhere, but I just wanted to let you all know that I have now been paid and the case has been resolved, atleast on my part.
One quote comes into my mind right now.
Homer Simpson: Beeeeeer
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2007
- Location
- Netherlands
Email conversation with FL
Here is my email conversation. As you can read in the converation, FL keeps telling me I can forget about my money...2 days ago I started mailing again. Yesterday, I got €150 back, meanwhile I was still mailing with FL. I had two accounts with each 50 in it, so this makes 100 not 150 :S (I had one other account where I deposited 50 and withdrawd 38 before all this happened(so I got the 38), I guess they are making a mistake here, offcourse I don't mind, serves them right!)
Until now I have not received an email why I got my deposit back. Anyhow I am glad to have my deposit back. I still will contact eCOGRA since they forfeited my winnings and also because of other players who did not get their deposit/winnings cashed
I will let everybody know what happens, cheers!
Text in red is from the casino
Text in black is from me
Text in lightgray is text from the casino which I used in my respons
Text in blue is my personal message
Bold Text you have to read!
Here it is, YOU HAVE TO READ FROM BOTTOM TO TOP:
Hi Robert
Thank you for your e-mail.
I have taken a look at your query and read over all the details. Unfortunately Robert based on the casino’s terms and conditions we as well as players need to abide by these terms this is to protect the casino as well as the players and to continue the fairness at the casino.
Thank you for your understanding with regards to the above information.
Kind regards
Craig
Casino desk
I didn't get the opinion of the FL staff...I really wish to know their vieuw on all this, but they won't tell me...really strange since I got my deposit's back..
Hi,
I know my case is closed! I know I will not get my money back! I just ask the opinion of you're FL staff! Nothing more! It is the last thing I will ask! Will you give me the opinion or not, please replay this last time!
Good day,
Roberto
Hi Roberto
Thank you for your e-mail.
Your case is closed with the Casino. Nothing we can add, due to your accounts situation.
Kind regards
Nico
Casino Support
Hey,
I have 2 accounts with €100 of my own money in it. Don't you have the respect to at least answer my e-mail below for that...Like I said, I am really really curious! This isn't about my money anymore. I just want to know the FL staff opinion. Nothing more.
Regards,
Roberto
I did not get a response on the email below so I sended the email above again
Hello,
"In the terms and conditions it states that should you be found to be guility of promotional abuse, you would forfiet all funds in the account."
Yess, that's is exactly the term where I will inform eCOGRA about. It pains me to see the FL staff doesn't admit there mistake. "Learn their lesson" by this faulty written term, pay the players since the casino accepeted the players and their bets and rewrite their T&C.
It seems you're casino staff looks on this subject in the short period instead of looking too the long period. FL saves money by not paying these "bonus abuse" players. But, by now, many websites have taking you're FL-group of their respected "you can play here for save"-list aka Accredited-list aka SaveToPlay-list. You know what I mean. So in the long run you're casino group FL will lose a lot of profit...
Can you please inform me, what the casino staff's opinion is on this conclusion since I am really curious! I almost can't believe you're casino staff is so stupid they are missing this point. Besides their selves it is also very bad to the rest of the online gaming industry who do are fair. I mean it, please let me know and I will stop mailing since I realize I will not accomplish anything by contacting the casino DeskSupport any more
Kind Regards and Goodday,
Roberto
Hi Roberto
Thank you for contacting us.
As per your our previous correspondence with you:-
Your accounts have been locked by our player security company, due to the fact that (after having investigated your accounts) they identified "promotional abuse" from you. (Please be aware that this was not decided on a whim, but after a thorough investigation into the gameplay on your Fortune Lounge accounts.)
In addition to this please be aware that when you registered your account/s with the casinos, you stated that you had read and accepted the terms and conditions of the casino.
In the terms and conditions it states that should you be found to be guility of promotional abuse, you would forfiet all funds in the account. (if you would like to verify this, please go to the casino website and view the terms and conditions.)
I am sorry to hear that you feel the need to take this matter further, this is entirely your choice.
However, please note that this matter is now considered closed by our player secuirty company.
Kind regards
Garreth
Casino Support Desk
Hello Casinodesk Support,
By now, 10 days ago, I kindly asked, since I always keep my matters, to unlock my account or give me my winnings incl deposit back. I waited long hoping you're FL staff would admit it handled incorrect and illegal. I warned FL that I would undertake action if this should not be the case.
I have tried several ways to get my accounts unlocked or to see my winnings and deposit cashed-out (since I do not have a change to meet the WR if I am locked)
Since I did not see any money from you(no re-deposit/no winnings) or have got any information about this "rouged" action of you're FL staff I see no other option then to contact eCOGRA. Please know that my wish was to resolve this peacefully but I have no other choice.
Goodday,
I suspect a replay,
Regards
Roberto
Here is my email conversation. As you can read in the converation, FL keeps telling me I can forget about my money...2 days ago I started mailing again. Yesterday, I got €150 back, meanwhile I was still mailing with FL. I had two accounts with each 50 in it, so this makes 100 not 150 :S (I had one other account where I deposited 50 and withdrawd 38 before all this happened(so I got the 38), I guess they are making a mistake here, offcourse I don't mind, serves them right!)
Until now I have not received an email why I got my deposit back. Anyhow I am glad to have my deposit back. I still will contact eCOGRA since they forfeited my winnings and also because of other players who did not get their deposit/winnings cashed
I will let everybody know what happens, cheers!
Text in red is from the casino
Text in black is from me
Text in lightgray is text from the casino which I used in my respons
Text in blue is my personal message
Bold Text you have to read!
Here it is, YOU HAVE TO READ FROM BOTTOM TO TOP:
Hi Robert
Thank you for your e-mail.
I have taken a look at your query and read over all the details. Unfortunately Robert based on the casino’s terms and conditions we as well as players need to abide by these terms this is to protect the casino as well as the players and to continue the fairness at the casino.
Thank you for your understanding with regards to the above information.
Kind regards
Craig
Casino desk
I didn't get the opinion of the FL staff...I really wish to know their vieuw on all this, but they won't tell me...really strange since I got my deposit's back..
Hi,
I know my case is closed! I know I will not get my money back! I just ask the opinion of you're FL staff! Nothing more! It is the last thing I will ask! Will you give me the opinion or not, please replay this last time!
Good day,
Roberto
Hi Roberto
Thank you for your e-mail.
Your case is closed with the Casino. Nothing we can add, due to your accounts situation.
Kind regards
Nico
Casino Support
Hey,
I have 2 accounts with €100 of my own money in it. Don't you have the respect to at least answer my e-mail below for that...Like I said, I am really really curious! This isn't about my money anymore. I just want to know the FL staff opinion. Nothing more.
Regards,
Roberto
I did not get a response on the email below so I sended the email above again
Hello,
"In the terms and conditions it states that should you be found to be guility of promotional abuse, you would forfiet all funds in the account."
Yess, that's is exactly the term where I will inform eCOGRA about. It pains me to see the FL staff doesn't admit there mistake. "Learn their lesson" by this faulty written term, pay the players since the casino accepeted the players and their bets and rewrite their T&C.
It seems you're casino staff looks on this subject in the short period instead of looking too the long period. FL saves money by not paying these "bonus abuse" players. But, by now, many websites have taking you're FL-group of their respected "you can play here for save"-list aka Accredited-list aka SaveToPlay-list. You know what I mean. So in the long run you're casino group FL will lose a lot of profit...
Can you please inform me, what the casino staff's opinion is on this conclusion since I am really curious! I almost can't believe you're casino staff is so stupid they are missing this point. Besides their selves it is also very bad to the rest of the online gaming industry who do are fair. I mean it, please let me know and I will stop mailing since I realize I will not accomplish anything by contacting the casino DeskSupport any more
Kind Regards and Goodday,
Roberto
Hi Roberto
Thank you for contacting us.
As per your our previous correspondence with you:-
Your accounts have been locked by our player security company, due to the fact that (after having investigated your accounts) they identified "promotional abuse" from you. (Please be aware that this was not decided on a whim, but after a thorough investigation into the gameplay on your Fortune Lounge accounts.)
In addition to this please be aware that when you registered your account/s with the casinos, you stated that you had read and accepted the terms and conditions of the casino.
In the terms and conditions it states that should you be found to be guility of promotional abuse, you would forfiet all funds in the account. (if you would like to verify this, please go to the casino website and view the terms and conditions.)
I am sorry to hear that you feel the need to take this matter further, this is entirely your choice.
However, please note that this matter is now considered closed by our player secuirty company.
Kind regards
Garreth
Casino Support Desk
Hello Casinodesk Support,
By now, 10 days ago, I kindly asked, since I always keep my matters, to unlock my account or give me my winnings incl deposit back. I waited long hoping you're FL staff would admit it handled incorrect and illegal. I warned FL that I would undertake action if this should not be the case.
I have tried several ways to get my accounts unlocked or to see my winnings and deposit cashed-out (since I do not have a change to meet the WR if I am locked)
Since I did not see any money from you(no re-deposit/no winnings) or have got any information about this "rouged" action of you're FL staff I see no other option then to contact eCOGRA. Please know that my wish was to resolve this peacefully but I have no other choice.
Goodday,
I suspect a replay,
Regards
Roberto
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- Joined
- Mar 20, 2007
- Location
- Canada
Here's an idea - who wants to join me in an attempt to persuade Neteller to shut down the merchant accounts of all the Fortune Lounge casinos? I realize that USA and soon, Canada, will not be allowed to use Neteller - but there's still the rest of the world, and I think Fortune Lounge would not be too happy if faced with the prospect of losing their Neteller accounts.
I think if enough of us all lodged complaints with Neteller against the roguish and crooked behaviour of Fortune Lounge, that they would probably listen. And it's quite possible that Fortune Lounge would change their mind on withholding our money.
What do you guys think of that?
I think if enough of us all lodged complaints with Neteller against the roguish and crooked behaviour of Fortune Lounge, that they would probably listen. And it's quite possible that Fortune Lounge would change their mind on withholding our money.
What do you guys think of that?
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2004
- Location
- United Kingdom
Astonishing?
So, FL are now saying that if they don't like the way you play, this gives them the right not just to void the bet, but reverse the outcome so that they win.
Worse, there is no definition of "promotional abuse", so they can just decide that a player fits the description and confiscate all the money.
Even rogue casinos rarely go this far, Crystal Palace used to lock accounts refund the deposits of winners, and keep quiet about losers.
FL are still aggressively marketing with bonuses, so they are going to be encountering more players who they are going to have to rip off if they find their style of play not to their likeing.
It is worth complaining to eCogra, as I am sure this action lies outside the remit of their eGap code that all sealholders are supposed to adhere to (which might be why they are paying out when they realise the threats to complain to eCogra are not empty bluffs from fraudulent players).
It is time eCogra, and other self regulatory bodies, got a grip on this issue of what constitutes "fraud", and set a clear standard so that players can know for certain what is allowed, and what is not - hiding behind discresionary terms is no longer useful, as casinos seem to be misusing them to counter the fall in revenue, rather than be fair to players.
So, FL are now saying that if they don't like the way you play, this gives them the right not just to void the bet, but reverse the outcome so that they win.
Worse, there is no definition of "promotional abuse", so they can just decide that a player fits the description and confiscate all the money.
Even rogue casinos rarely go this far, Crystal Palace used to lock accounts refund the deposits of winners, and keep quiet about losers.
FL are still aggressively marketing with bonuses, so they are going to be encountering more players who they are going to have to rip off if they find their style of play not to their likeing.
It is worth complaining to eCogra, as I am sure this action lies outside the remit of their eGap code that all sealholders are supposed to adhere to (which might be why they are paying out when they realise the threats to complain to eCogra are not empty bluffs from fraudulent players).
It is time eCogra, and other self regulatory bodies, got a grip on this issue of what constitutes "fraud", and set a clear standard so that players can know for certain what is allowed, and what is not - hiding behind discresionary terms is no longer useful, as casinos seem to be misusing them to counter the fall in revenue, rather than be fair to players.
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2007
- Location
- Norway
vinylweatherman and others: As I wrote in my previous post, I complained to eCOGRA and I have been paid in full (winnings included) by Fortune Lounge. All others should complain to eCOGRA aswell and you wil probably get paid too..
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2006
- Location
- Australia
Ecogra have obliged FL to pay players every last cent overdue.
This has been a most disgraceful episode of online-gaming history and one players will not forget in a hurry.
FL must now publically front up and issue an unreserved statement of contrition and promise never again to steal players deposits and winnings.
In the abscence of such an apology players will know where they stand with respect to this rogue of all rogues.
As to the affiliates posting statements of FL support within this thread .........well you damn better hang your head in shame. We all knew from the very start the position adopted by FL yet all we heard from you was crap about "player fraud" and "there's more to this". You were weak and your support for players was weak. We know where you stand.
...
This has been a most disgraceful episode of online-gaming history and one players will not forget in a hurry.
FL must now publically front up and issue an unreserved statement of contrition and promise never again to steal players deposits and winnings.
In the abscence of such an apology players will know where they stand with respect to this rogue of all rogues.
As to the affiliates posting statements of FL support within this thread .........well you damn better hang your head in shame. We all knew from the very start the position adopted by FL yet all we heard from you was crap about "player fraud" and "there's more to this". You were weak and your support for players was weak. We know where you stand.
...
I've only seen one affiliate post here, and her posts were level headed and sensible.
This thing is not over. I haven't eaten my words yet either.
If I remember you right from previous posts; you think all casinos are rigged, you think winning screenshots are evil or something, and... what else... hmm, don't remember. If I have you mixed up with someone else, I'll apologize.
So far, I'm standing by what I've said in this thread until shown otherwise.
btw, I'm not an affiliate.
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They were not (in my opinion) level headed and sensible comments made by the affiliate. They were comments rushing to the aide of the casinos and not actually reading the thread and dismissing the testimony of the players. It was total disregard to the complaints and it was dismissive and blame was placed on the players.
Dominique said...
Seems level headed and sensible to me. You may not agree with her opinion.... Now, several of my comments here could be taken as not level headed nor sensible and they certainly aren't mainstream - could even be naive - but we haven't seen the end of it, and we don't know yet whether they are paying some people because of a ruling or not. And before it's over I might have to eat my words, and I will if need be
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2007
- Location
- Netherlands
I don't like the way FL reacted on this topic and I don't like the way they responded too my emails...
I sended my complains to eCOGRA 36 hours ago. Does somebody know when I will receive some information from them?
I sended my complains to eCOGRA 36 hours ago. Does somebody know when I will receive some information from them?
I've seen the light in another thread.
I still absolutely trust the process, but maybe I didn't understand it before, and maybe it's changing with the times.
And the fool I am, I still expect Fortune Lounge to do the right thing. We here are not privy to the details. We do not know the level of fraud nor the dollar amounts involved.
All along I have expecting this to be settled by divisions. Outright fraudsters would be identified and disallowed gaming across the industry. Syndicate players would be banned individually within the casino group (with this info shared among the platform) newbies who thought they were doing an okay thing (as promoted by bonus info sites), and arguably were, would get some compensation for their troubles, and the average Joe would get treated royally for his trouble.
That's not a compromise in my opinion, it's the right thing to do.
Where does the 'average' advantage player fit into that? Fortune Lounge has to take some chances between the average joe and the newbie and eat their losses. Period.
Settle up and let the game go on!!!
I still absolutely trust the process, but maybe I didn't understand it before, and maybe it's changing with the times.
And the fool I am, I still expect Fortune Lounge to do the right thing. We here are not privy to the details. We do not know the level of fraud nor the dollar amounts involved.
All along I have expecting this to be settled by divisions. Outright fraudsters would be identified and disallowed gaming across the industry. Syndicate players would be banned individually within the casino group (with this info shared among the platform) newbies who thought they were doing an okay thing (as promoted by bonus info sites), and arguably were, would get some compensation for their troubles, and the average Joe would get treated royally for his trouble.
That's not a compromise in my opinion, it's the right thing to do.
Where does the 'average' advantage player fit into that? Fortune Lounge has to take some chances between the average joe and the newbie and eat their losses. Period.
Settle up and let the game go on!!!
Over xxxx players took part in the promotion, over and above the xx who were erroneously excluded. The erroneous exclusion had little or no effect on the overall profitability of the promotion. xx does measure the net Dollar return of all promotions, but more important a measure of success is by reference to the ability of all promotions to secure the ongoing patronage of regular and valued players. This promotion, even after the correction of the erroneous exclusion of the xxx, remains profitable on a Dollar value basis, and certainly succeeded in keeping over xxxx other players very happy and loyal to xxx.
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2007
- Location
- Warks, UK
Has anyone actually received their deposit back let alone their winnings? I'm on the list to receive my deposit (as mentioned previously in the thread) but as yet I've heard nothing. I'm guessing it's just a slow process?
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2007
- Location
- Netherlands
I received an email of eCOGRA on april the 10th telling me they are working on the case. I haven't heard anything yet. Even if I did, I am not allowed to tolk about it untill problems are resolved :/
- Joined
- Jun 30, 1998
- Location
- Bierland
For those players who have submitted PABs and have been paid, please contact me.
If your issue is still outstanding - please either post here or contact me as well. Thanks!
If your issue is still outstanding - please either post here or contact me as well. Thanks!
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2007
- Location
- Warks, UK
I PAB a while back, apparently I was to receive my deposit back at Capital Casino?
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2004
- Location
- USA
- Joined
- Jun 30, 1998
- Location
- Bierland
I believe I am the only one who has mentioned player fraud besides FL. I am not an affiliate, nor will I "hang my head in shame".
Pangloss - you owe me some pushups.
There is player fraud involved which has made this entire episode complicated thus time consuming. Most of the 1000s of accounts that were locked never generated a complaint - explain that. Read some of my previous posts.
Besides the three accounts banned here for submitting a fraudulent claim, add a fourth "saarasavunen".
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2007
- Location
- Europe
Hey, I think the explanation is very simple: Most of these 1000s accounts belonged to bonushunters which not intends to come back anyway. I got 8 FL accounts locked but i have no problem with that since i had no positive balance at any of them. But I do think its lame that they locked them due to "suspicious activity" because they know that no such was comitted, they did just "dont like how i played", but have no courage to say it. I see that they also steals some players deposits which is rouge and makes them a qualifyed member of the rouge pit.
- Joined
- Jun 30, 1998
- Location
- Bierland
It's not that simple even though it seems to make sense. Read some of my earlier comments on levels of complaints vs amounts of players involved.
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2007
- Location
- Germany
I want to use this thread to say THANKS! to casinomeister. FL has finally paid me. THanks for your afford on that
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