Locked Account at Royal Vegas & Vegas Towers

[vinylweatherman]

Grounds

I mailed FL yesterday and asked if they had maybe changed their minds. They said NO...so I said I saw no other option than to contact eCOGRA.

I got a mail back, they said: sorry but you will not get your deposit back

Anyhow, I just looked to my neteller and it seems I have got my deposit back of the 2 accounts + 50 extra :s

I will post my email conversation with FL later....gonna watch soccer now

cheers!

On what grounds are they saying they have the right to steal the deposit. In effect this is no voiding the wager, but changing the outcome from one where the player wins to where the casino wins. This is just as bad as rigging the games at the point of play. If eCogra allow this, they will suffer further loss of credibility. If there is widescale ripping off going on, the casino industry is getting the better of it. I am sure more players' dollars are ripped off by rogue casinos operating outside of any meaningful regulatory framework than casino dollars being lost to fraudulent players.

At least in this case, they said one thing, and did another, and you got the deposit back.

The industry only have themselves to blame now they find it near impossible to gain the trust of NEW players (without the use of really big "loss leader" bonuses), who have no prior experience of whether they are going to get paid if they win by the groups, and only see what people write in forums about good treatment and bad treatment. Players who feel wronged post more vociferously than those who were paid on time. Getting paid is what is expected, one doesn't sing the praises of a group just because they pay what they owe on a bet, it is just expected of them.

 

[powerball]

MY CASE HAS BEEN RESOLVED!

It seems like my case has finaly been resolved! It looks like the pressure from eCOGRA was to much for Fortune Lounge. 10 hours ago my win was transfered back to my NETeller account. Finally! I havent got a mail from eCOGRA yet, but my guess is that eCOGRA made a ruling on Fortune Lounge that they had no other choice but to pay me, as I didn't break a single rule in their T&C.. (And by locking my account they missed out on some action asweel (see winning screenshots thread ) )

I reckon there wil be posted a Casinomeister statement of some kind somewhere, but I just wanted to let you all know that I have now been paid and the case has been resolved, atleast on my part.

One quote comes into my mind right now.

Homer Simpson: Beeeeeer

 

[gamerkip]

Email conversation with FL

Here is my email conversation. As you can read in the converation, FL keeps telling me I can forget about my money...2 days ago I started mailing again. Yesterday, I got €150 back, meanwhile I was still mailing with FL. I had two accounts with each 50 in it, so this makes 100 not 150 :S (I had one other account where I deposited 50 and withdrawd 38 before all this happened(so I got the 38), I guess they are making a mistake here, offcourse I don't mind, serves them right!)

Until now I have not received an email why I got my deposit back. Anyhow I am glad to have my deposit back. I still will contact eCOGRA since they forfeited my winnings and also because of other players who did not get their deposit/winnings cashed

I will let everybody know what happens, cheers!


Text in red is from the casino
Text in black is from me
Text in lightgray is text from the casino which I used in my respons
Text in blue is my personal message
Bold Text you have to read!

Here it is, YOU HAVE TO READ FROM BOTTOM TO TOP:



Hi Robert
Thank you for your e-mail.

I have taken a look at your query and read over all the details. Unfortunately Robert based on the casino’s terms and conditions we as well as players need to abide by these terms this is to protect the casino as well as the players and to continue the fairness at the casino.
Thank you for your understanding with regards to the above information.

Kind regards
Craig
Casino desk

I didn't get the opinion of the FL staff...I really wish to know their vieuw on all this, but they won't tell me...really strange since I got my deposit's back..



Hi,

I know my case is closed! I know I will not get my money back! I just ask the opinion of you're FL staff! Nothing more! It is the last thing I will ask! Will you give me the opinion or not, please replay this last time!

Good day,

Roberto





Hi Roberto

Thank you for your e-mail.
Your case is closed with the Casino. Nothing we can add, due to your accounts situation.

Kind regards

Nico

Casino Support





Hey,

I have 2 accounts with €100 of my own money in it. Don't you have the respect to at least answer my e-mail below for that...Like I said, I am really really curious! This isn't about my money anymore. I just want to know the FL staff opinion. Nothing more.

Regards,
Roberto


I did not get a response on the email below so I sended the email above again





Hello,

"In the terms and conditions it states that should you be found to be guility of promotional abuse, you would forfiet all funds in the account."

Yess, that's is exactly the term where I will inform eCOGRA about. It pains me to see the FL staff doesn't admit there mistake. "Learn their lesson" by this faulty written term, pay the players since the casino accepeted the players and their bets and rewrite their T&C.

It seems you're casino staff looks on this subject in the short period instead of looking too the long period. FL saves money by not paying these "bonus abuse" players. But, by now, many websites have taking you're FL-group of their respected "you can play here for save"-list aka Accredited-list aka SaveToPlay-list. You know what I mean. So in the long run you're casino group FL will lose a lot of profit...

Can you please inform me, what the casino staff's opinion is on this conclusion since I am really curious! I almost can't believe you're casino staff is so stupid they are missing this point. Besides their selves it is also very bad to the rest of the online gaming industry who do are fair. I mean it, please let me know and I will stop mailing since I realize I will not accomplish anything by contacting the casino DeskSupport any more

Kind Regards and Goodday,

Roberto





Hi Roberto

Thank you for contacting us.

As per your our previous correspondence with you:-

Your accounts have been locked by our player security company, due to the fact that (after having investigated your accounts) they identified "promotional abuse" from you. (Please be aware that this was not decided on a whim, but after a thorough investigation into the gameplay on your Fortune Lounge accounts.)

In addition to this please be aware that when you registered your account/s with the casinos, you stated that you had read and accepted the terms and conditions of the casino.

In the terms and conditions it states that should you be found to be guility of promotional abuse, you would forfiet all funds in the account. (if you would like to verify this, please go to the casino website and view the terms and conditions.)

I am sorry to hear that you feel the need to take this matter further, this is entirely your choice.

However, please note that this matter is now considered closed by our player secuirty company.

Kind regards
Garreth
Casino Support Desk





Hello Casinodesk Support,

By now, 10 days ago, I kindly asked, since I always keep my matters, to unlock my account or give me my winnings incl deposit back. I waited long hoping you're FL staff would admit it handled incorrect and illegal. I warned FL that I would undertake action if this should not be the case.

I have tried several ways to get my accounts unlocked or to see my winnings and deposit cashed-out (since I do not have a change to meet the WR if I am locked)

Since I did not see any money from you(no re-deposit/no winnings) or have got any information about this "rouged" action of you're FL staff I see no other option then to contact eCOGRA. Please know that my wish was to resolve this peacefully but I have no other choice.

Goodday,

I suspect a replay,

Regards

Roberto

 

[BruceW47]

Here's an idea - who wants to join me in an attempt to persuade Neteller to shut down the merchant accounts of all the Fortune Lounge casinos? I realize that USA and soon, Canada, will not be allowed to use Neteller - but there's still the rest of the world, and I think Fortune Lounge would not be too happy if faced with the prospect of losing their Neteller accounts.
I think if enough of us all lodged complaints with Neteller against the roguish and crooked behaviour of Fortune Lounge, that they would probably listen. And it's quite possible that Fortune Lounge would change their mind on withholding our money.

What do you guys think of that?

 

[vinylweatherman]

Astonishing?

So, FL are now saying that if they don't like the way you play, this gives them the right not just to void the bet, but reverse the outcome so that they win.
Worse, there is no definition of "promotional abuse", so they can just decide that a player fits the description and confiscate all the money.
Even rogue casinos rarely go this far, Crystal Palace used to lock accounts refund the deposits of winners, and keep quiet about losers.
FL are still aggressively marketing with bonuses, so they are going to be encountering more players who they are going to have to rip off if they find their style of play not to their likeing.
It is worth complaining to eCogra, as I am sure this action lies outside the remit of their eGap code that all sealholders are supposed to adhere to (which might be why they are paying out when they realise the threats to complain to eCogra are not empty bluffs from fraudulent players).

It is time eCogra, and other self regulatory bodies, got a grip on this issue of what constitutes "fraud", and set a clear standard so that players can know for certain what is allowed, and what is not - hiding behind discresionary terms is no longer useful, as casinos seem to be misusing them to counter the fall in revenue, rather than be fair to players.

 

[powerball]

vinylweatherman and others: As I wrote in my previous post, I complained to eCOGRA and I have been paid in full (winnings included) by Fortune Lounge. All others should complain to eCOGRA aswell and you wil probably get paid too..

 

[pangloss]

Ecogra have obliged FL to pay players every last cent overdue.

This has been a most disgraceful episode of online-gaming history and one players will not forget in a hurry.

FL must now publically front up and issue an unreserved statement of contrition and promise never again to steal players deposits and winnings.

In the abscence of such an apology players will know where they stand with respect to this rogue of all rogues.

As to the affiliates posting statements of FL support within this thread .........well you damn better hang your head in shame. We all knew from the very start the position adopted by FL yet all we heard from you was crap about "player fraud" and "there's more to this". You were weak and your support for players was weak. We know where you stand.


...

 

[lojo]

Ecogra have obliged FL to pay players every last cent overdue.

This has been a most disgraceful episode of online-gaming history and one players will not forget in a hurry.

FL must now publically front up and issue an unreserved statement of contrition and promise never again to steal players deposits and winnings.

In the abscence of such an apology players will know where they stand with respect to this rogue of all rogues.

As to the affiliates posting statements of FL support within this thread .........well you damn better hang your head in shame. We all knew from the very start the position adopted by FL yet all we heard from you was crap about "player fraud" and "there's more to this". You were weak and your support for players was weak. We know where you stand.


...

I've only seen one affiliate post here, and her posts were level headed and sensible.

This thing is not over. I haven't eaten my words yet either.

If I remember you right from previous posts; you think all casinos are rigged, you think winning screenshots are evil or something, and... what else... hmm, don't remember. If I have you mixed up with someone else, I'll apologize.

So far, I'm standing by what I've said in this thread until shown otherwise.

btw, I'm not an affiliate.

 

[halfday]

They were not (in my opinion) level headed and sensible comments made by the affiliate. They were comments rushing to the aide of the casinos and not actually reading the thread and dismissing the testimony of the players. It was total disregard to the complaints and it was dismissive and blame was placed on the players.

 

[lojo]

They were not (in my opinion) level headed and sensible comments made by the affiliate. They were comments rushing to the aide of the casinos and not actually reading the thread and dismissing the testimony of the players. It was total disregard to the complaints and it was dismissive and blame was placed on the players.

Dominique said...

I have just read this whole thread for the first time. It's kind of interesting to read a volatile thread in it's entirety, instead of feeding off an individual post that one may or may not agree with, one ends up with an overall impression. I need to do it like that more often...

One thing that is stated repeatedly and that I totally agree with is that casinos really should reward repeat players generously instead of throwing large bonuses at new players.

Other than that, I get the distinct impression that there was a ring of players communally defrauding the casino and the casino decided to do some house cleaning. In that process, some innocents got caught up and had their accounts closed either because they engaged in similair play or because they fit some other pattern that was singled out.

In the brick and mortar world it's called "profiling". It's generally bad practice but then the casinos have no way to actually meet with you. All they have is behavior patterns to compare.

Fraudulent player syndicates hurt everyone, but most of all they hurt other players.

Because of them innocent players get caught in the net when the necessary house cleaning takes place.

Because of them we have ridiculous wagering requirements.

Because of them we have T&Cs that take a lawyer to be understood, singling out this game, that game and the other and attaching special requirements to it.

Fraud syndicates need to be outed - for the player's sake if nothing else. It is unfortunate if the investigation gets messy, so now we need to sift through it and clean it up.

Pitch your PABs.

Re. the affiliate sector: while we work in silence as usual, we are definitely also pursuing this through our channels.

This industry is largely unregulated, and we all need to self police. IMO that's what Casinomeister is all about, so let's sort it out.

Seems level headed and sensible to me. You may not agree with her opinion.... Now, several of my comments here could be taken as not level headed nor sensible and they certainly aren't mainstream - could even be naive - but we haven't seen the end of it, and we don't know yet whether they are paying some people because of a ruling or not. And before it's over I might have to eat my words, and I will if need be

 

[halfday]

Please forgive me. I had my people mixed up. That was level headed and I apologize for the last post.

 

[lojo]

Thanks, I needed a smile. Really.

 

[gamerkip]

I don't like the way FL reacted on this topic and I don't like the way they responded too my emails...

I sended my complains to eCOGRA 36 hours ago. Does somebody know when I will receive some information from them?

 

[lojo]

I've seen the light in another thread.

I still absolutely trust the process, but maybe I didn't understand it before, and maybe it's changing with the times.

And the fool I am, I still expect Fortune Lounge to do the right thing. We here are not privy to the details. We do not know the level of fraud nor the dollar amounts involved.

All along I have expecting this to be settled by divisions. Outright fraudsters would be identified and disallowed gaming across the industry. Syndicate players would be banned individually within the casino group (with this info shared among the platform) newbies who thought they were doing an okay thing (as promoted by bonus info sites), and arguably were, would get some compensation for their troubles, and the average Joe would get treated royally for his trouble.

That's not a compromise in my opinion, it's the right thing to do.

Where does the 'average' advantage player fit into that? Fortune Lounge has to take some chances between the average joe and the newbie and eat their losses. Period.

Settle up and let the game go on!!!

 

[lojo]

Over xxxx players took part in the promotion, over and above the xx who were erroneously excluded. The erroneous exclusion had little or no effect on the overall profitability of the promotion. xx does measure the net Dollar return of all promotions, but more important a measure of success is by reference to the ability of all promotions to secure the ongoing patronage of regular and valued players. This promotion, even after the correction of the erroneous exclusion of the xxx, remains profitable on a Dollar value basis, and certainly succeeded in keeping over xxxx other players very happy and loyal to xxx.

 

[lojo]

Forgot to put quotes on the above post. It is NOT directly relavent to FL, but from a link Stanford supplied in another thread. I posted it as an example.

 

[Consty1]

Has anyone actually received their deposit back let alone their winnings? I'm on the list to receive my deposit (as mentioned previously in the thread) but as yet I've heard nothing. I'm guessing it's just a slow process?

 

[gamerkip]

I received an email of eCOGRA on april the 10th telling me they are working on the case. I haven't heard anything yet. Even if I did, I am not allowed to tolk about it untill problems are resolved :/

 

[Casinomeister]

For those players who have submitted PABs and have been paid, please contact me.

If your issue is still outstanding - please either post here or contact me as well. Thanks!

 

[Consty1]

For those players who have submitted PABs and have been paid, please contact me.

If your issue is still outstanding - please either post here or contact me as well. Thanks!

I PAB a while back, apparently I was to receive my deposit back at Capital Casino?

 

[Stanford]

I PAB a while back, apparently I was to receive my deposit back at Capital Casino?

Did you have any winnings?

Stanford

 

[Casinomeister]

..As to the affiliates posting statements of FL support within this thread .........well you damn better hang your head in shame. We all knew from the very start the position adopted by FL yet all we heard from you was crap about "player fraud" and "there's more to this". You were weak and your support for players was weak. We know where you stand...

I believe I am the only one who has mentioned player fraud besides FL. I am not an affiliate, nor will I "hang my head in shame".

Pangloss - you owe me some pushups.

There is player fraud involved which has made this entire episode complicated thus time consuming. Most of the 1000s of accounts that were locked never generated a complaint - explain that. Read some of my previous posts.

Besides the three accounts banned here for submitting a fraudulent claim, add a fourth "saarasavunen".

 

[Daffe]

There is player fraud involved which has made this entire episode complicated thus time consuming. Most of the 1000s of accounts that were locked never generated a complaint - explain that. Read some of my previous posts.

Hey, I think the explanation is very simple: Most of these 1000s accounts belonged to bonushunters which not intends to come back anyway. I got 8 FL accounts locked but i have no problem with that since i had no positive balance at any of them. But I do think its lame that they locked them due to "suspicious activity" because they know that no such was comitted, they did just "dont like how i played", but have no courage to say it. I see that they also steals some players deposits which is rouge and makes them a qualifyed member of the rouge pit.

 

[Casinomeister]

It's not that simple even though it seems to make sense. Read some of my earlier comments on levels of complaints vs amounts of players involved.

 

[Tucker]

I want to use this thread to say THANKS! to casinomeister. FL has finally paid me. THanks for your afford on that