Liquid casino bonus scam

[CasinoLackey]

Just thought I'd share.

These guys put out a Chistmas bonus of 100 pounds.
They tell you you have to play a certain amount to get the bonus, pretty good terms, nothing about it not being cashible
I got the bonus, but I can't play with it or cash it out.

So I email them to ask what's going on, this is the response:

Thank you for contacting us.
Regarding your bonus question we will like to inform you that the bonus
is not withdrawable but the winnings are you can only use the bonus to
play with.
Unfortunately we are experiencing technicals problems with the Xmas
bonus, so we do not have any time scales as to when you can play with your
bonus.

There's nothing in the terms about this so emailed them back,
Check out their response:

Thank you for contacting us again.
We would like to inform you that it is true ,it is not stated in the
terms and conditions on the website.That is why we of the support team
are available to provide our clients of information that are not on the
website.
We do apologize for this inconvenience and we will appreciate your
understanding on this matter.

Unbelievable. They haven't even told me what the terms of this bonus is, like if I lose it do I lose my money first or if it's no risk.
All I have to say is FRAUD.

 

[soflat]

You are referring to Liquid Club Casino, right?

That is operated by Elite Club Management / Luminar, which also operates Frontroom Casino. Both use the Chartwell software.

Anyways, they did basically the same thing to me thru Frontroom Casino.

I have been a customer at Frontroom since November, and received a 100GBP Christmas Bonus offer via email (the Frontroom bonus is open to current customers, wheras the Liquid Club bonus seems to be a sign-up offer). The Frontroom Terms and Conditions were exactly the same as its sign-up offer (copy and pasted), which was cashable. The only exception was the wagering requirements (10X versus 25X).

To make a long story short, I deposited for the bonus, played various games, lost a bunch, but figured that was ok because the bonus would make up for some of it.

When I completed the wagering requirement and found out it was a "Playable Bonus" rather than cash, I called customer service and emailed them too.

They told me basically the same thing: not cashable, they are having problems, they cannot veer from the bonus terms (which there are apparently some secret terms).

All bets come from your own funds first. So you have to lose all your own money before getting at the bonus chips. Even then, it is not clear if you can play with the Playable Bonus chips (my chips are "Held", or locked, now).

They have not bothered to change the bonus terms on the website despite being aware of how misleading they are for almost a week now.

 

[sonicboom]

A friend of mine got a letter from Liquid Club through the post advertising the new player 100 sign up bonus. He doesnt gamble but knows I do so showed it to me. I went to the website and saw the offer on the promos page and it was open to everyone: Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

I deposited 100, wagered over 1k and waited 48hrs for the bonus. Nothing, so I E-mailed. Have been told you need to put in a promo code first! It does not, did not and never has said this ANYWHERE before on the website or original letter, if you check the link it still doesnt now. It is IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to know you had to do this. I fully met all other T&C. Can they do that? Put up one set of T&C then randomly add another and say thats why you dont count and cant have it?

I have asked if they will credit me despite not putting the code in first given that I couldnt have known you needed to put it in, and now they arnt responding to the E-mails (has been over 24hrs).

Any suggestions on what to do?

 

[jetset]

It looks as if an outfit called Elite Club Management (they also manage Elite Club Casino) in Curacao are the people either operating or re-selling Liquid Club on. The VP Business is a guy called Derek Purvis (dpurvis@eliteclubmanagement.com) who may be a useful channel to get this resolved if the casino is ignoring you.

It's powered by Chartwell, who will be useless as a complaint avenue due to their totally hands-off policies.

See also: Link Removed (invalid URL)

 

[sonicboom]

Just to update this, DO NOT PLAY HERE. They have agreed that the T&C did not include the need to add a bonus code but still wont credit the 100 as they say I had the opportunity to try again and play another 10x if I wanted!

Well I didnt want to because if I had I should imagine:
They then decline bonus because I used Neteller not my card, the T&C dont say this but they meant to, I can try again if I use my card,
So I use my card, they decline bonus because I played BJ, the T&C dont say you cant but they meant to, I can try again and play vid poker if I want,
Etc Etc Etc

There is no point having a T&C page if the casino just makes up other ones randomly and implements them retrospectively. I have PAB but no response yet and I dont expect a positive resolution. I would like to see this outfit put on the rougue gallery though as they are not to be trusted.

 

[caruso]

It's powered by Chartwell, who will be useless as a complaint avenue due to their totally hands-off policies.

Is that right? Chartwell actually refuse any involvement with their licensees beyond collecting the license fee? Is this actually stated somewhere, or just your experience of them?

That is a supremely arrogant attitude to have if it's the case. If Chartwell licensees are screwing their customers Chartwell have a duty to pressurise them into making good or losing their license.

Looks like a potential ICE project, but I'd like confirmation of the above.

 

[Casinomeister]

That is a supremely arrogant attitude to have if it's the case. If Chartwell licensees are screwing their customers Chartwell have a duty to pressurise them into making good or losing their license.

Both Jetset and I have met them in person together. Their attitude is that their licensees are good solid companies and that they don't need to intervene because of this. They have already done their due diligence.

I should just rogue the whole lot of them.

PABs are backlogged through Christmas - I'm nailing them as I can.

 

[Casinomeister]

From my files

This is from the Carib Sunshine case a couple of years ago. From Chartwell:

Unlike many other software suppliers Chartwell Technology is strictly a software development company and only license the use our products for a variety of online applications. We do not participate in any aspect of the daily operations of our customers business, which includes hosting, customer support, database and money management.

 

[jetset]

On at least four occasions over the past three years I have broached this subject with senior Chartwell people, and the response has always been the same - pretty much summarised in Bryan's post above.

Added to this, in mediations I have attempted through them there is either a flat refusal to get involved, or a wall of silence from this company.

I'd say that was a clear indication of an intention to remain hands off - a policy they have maintained with consistency over the years I have been in the business.

Pretty convincing even for *just* my personal experience, I'd say!

 

[caruso]

Thanks to both of you.

Their attitude is that their licensees are good solid companies and that they don't need to intervene because of this. They have already done their due diligence.

That's obviously fine while they ARE "good, solid companies". All companies are good & solid until they go down - 40+, Goodfellas etc etc. Additionally, being good & solid doesn't stop them from pulling the occasional fast one or behaving unethically, as has happened with some of the biggest operators out there over the years and as apparently is happening here. That they "don't need to intervene" because of an initial apparent clean bill of health is a total copout and plain WRONG. Since when did businesses not change, develop etc - for better or worse - after their inception? What a crock.

Added to this, in mediations I have attempted through them there is either a flat refusal to get involved, or a wall of silence from this company.

I never even heard of any Chartwell issues; the only licensees I've patronised - Victor Chandler and Coral - are all solid and fast payers even if the software is crap and buggy as hell. I had no idea about, or at least have no recollection of, any Chartwell issues. On this basis alone they should be at the very least officially not recommended, there being no backup in the event an operation going wrong or causing problems in some form or another - as it's now apparent to me has already occured - since Chartwell are clearly open about the fact that they have no interest in the business practices of their customers beyond their ability to stump up the license fee.

 

[Casinomeister]

...On this basis alone they should be at the very least officially not recommended, there being no backup in the event an operation going wrong or causing problems in some form or another - as it's now apparent to me has already occured - since Chartwell are clearly open about the fact that they have no interest in the business practices of their customers beyond their ability to stump up the license fee.

You have a point - and I'm too damn friggin' strung out for my own good.

Wish I could post in the rogue section telepathically.

Here's a sorry-ass thread about a bloke owed $600 - and he never saw the cash - it was never resolved even after face-to-face meetings with the software supplier.
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/carib-sunshine-casino.501/

 

[caruso]

Wre looking forward to reminding the Chartwell people here in Montreal that they have given an undertaking to contact the failed casino owner on your behalf - and they can expect some coverage on their hopelessly out of date policy regarding failed casinos!

I am a firm believer that the software provider has an obligation to the player if their licensees go down the tubes.

Yes, it's not only massively arrogant, it's also out of date. Even Playtech have made an effort to at least make the right noises in this department, albeit hopelessly ineffectively to date. RTG have been more proactive in the last year or so, and Microgaming will actually bail out players from failed casinos. Chartwell has some big clients, and this attitude towards customers of their shittier ones is arrogant, antiquated and very convenient. It also sends out the wrong signals to potential stiff licensees, who will be happy to know that if they start playing games they will not be subject to pressure from their licenser.

I hope this made Infopowa news as suggested. It's also worthy of more coverage in light of this most recent incident.

 

[Casinomeister]

https://www.casinomeister.com/rogue-casinos/

 

[caruso]

Frontroom Casino, seemingly identical situation:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Note that the casino has been claiming inability to process payments since December:

Regarding the issue of your withdrawal made on the 24th and it not being processed.We regret to inform you that due to some technical difficulties our site has been having since December we are not able at this moment to make any payments.

but...

I threatened them with Legal action, and they paid via neteller the next day.

So, threaten to take 'em to court and they'll pay.

Obviously Chartwell's "due diligence" doesn't go beyond checking they have enough money upfront for the license fee.

 

[ECMManager]

Bonus issues

Dear All,

I am one of the managers at Elite Club Management which operates Frontroom and Liquidclubs casino's. This thread was recently brought to my attention and I would like to invite anyone who has experienced any of the difficulties mentioned in this thread, or any other issues, to send me an e-mail with their usernames. I will look into the matters personally and make sure that all issues will be resolved.

It appears as though there was some confusion regarding the Terms and Conditions for this promotion, and as a sign of good faith we are prepared to honor all requests for this bonus to be made withdrawable. Please forward your username to me personally at manager@eliteclubmanagement.com so I can address it.

We apologize for any inconvenience this issue may caused.

Jan

Operations Manager

Elite Club Management.

 

[ThePokerprof]

I have been waiting on a 400 cashout for over 3 weeks now, funnily enough receiving the same 'technical problems' excuse for non-payment every time I contact them.

E-mail to management fired off.

 

[Tumbleweed]

I have a smaller withdrawal that hasn't been processed for around 6 weeks. Email sent to management as well.

 

[rainermaria]

I also have a pending cashout at about 6 weeks now - I did not even play the bonus with the confusing terms as I refuse to put any more money into an online casino until I receive at least one cashout promptly. They have been nice, but repeatedly offered different excuses for not paying -- smells vaguely of impending bankruptcy or at least serious problems having enough cash to pay. In any case, going on 2 months is way too long for a cashout. And not offering neteller cashouts is ridiculous. Thanks to the manager for posting an email addy, hopefully this will get resolved.

 

[amandajm]

Chartwell make games. It would be nice if they helped with issues, but is that a pre-requisite or be rogued?

Chartwell firms have caused alot less grief than Playtech or RTG and they have'nt played the game of pretending to help.

I am happy to go along with rogueing all software suppliers that don't openly state they will get involved to help with issues. I would like to see some guidelines, not see it applied on a case by case basis dependant on a few issues.

Do Cryptologic get involved with disputes as a rule? Boss, Wagerlogoc and so on.. That is the question.

 

[ThePokerprof]

Paid today in full.

Glad they've overcome these technical problems....

 

[Tumbleweed]

Paid in full. Thanks ECMManager

 

[sonicboom]

Still nothing here, and despite originally getting an E-mail and 150 bonus chips havnt had my first withdrawal yet (not even tried withdrawing bonus yet). And now have sent two E-mails to the manager asking for an update and no response at all. Glad others are getting paid, gives me some hope!

 

[soflat]

Still nothing here, and despite originally getting an E-mail and 150 bonus chips havnt had my first withdrawal yet (not even tried withdrawing bonus yet). And now have sent two E-mails to the manager asking for an update and no response at all. Glad others are getting paid, gives me some hope!

I got the bonus chips and have been awaiting a withdrawal for a few days now.

 

[sonicboom]

Still nothing from these guys.

I am now writing this off, its been dozens of calls and E-mails, broken promises, told problems fixed now, will be 48/72hrs, then told again a week later 48/72hrs, and now finally off the phone where the cs agent (who I suspect was lying because he couldnt be bothered to talk to me) denied being able to find any trace at all on the system of me or my account ever existing. It might be a system bug and I should call back later!

 

[sdaddy]

rainermaria,

Any progress with your cashout?