Liberty Slots issues

[lots0]

Hi Guys...

Been a while.

Some interesting info on libertyslots, that I thought I might share.

First of all there is thread over at affiliate Guard dog that some of you might find interesting.
xxhttp://www.affiliateguarddog.com/forums/welcome-slotsvendor-agd-certified-program-t4967.html

slotsvendor is the affiliate program for libertyslots.

The real kicker is that liberyslots says that they have a e-gaming license... but they are keeping it secret.

No kidding... they actually say are keeping their licensing info secret.

I have been doing some investigating and so far have not been able to find a license for them.

So far libertyslots has raised just about every red flag I know of when it comes to spotting a Rogue Casino.

So Beware...

 

[SlotMonster]

"Secret" License means that players are unable to complain to regulator, because they simply don't know who it is...

 

[The Dude]

Hi Guys...

Been a while.

Some interesting info on libertyslots, that I thought I might share.

First of all there is thread over at affiliate Guard dog that some of you might find interesting.
Old / Expired Link

slotsvendor is the affiliate program for libertyslots.

The real kicker is that liberyslots says that they have a e-gaming license... but they are keeping it secret.

No kidding... they actually say are keeping their licensing info secret.

I have been doing some investigating and so far have not been able to find a license for them.

So far libertyslots has raised just about every red flag I know of when it comes to spotting a Rogue Casino.

So Beware...

Thank you for the information, but I do have an issue with what you are saying at Affiliateguarddog. You have gone on for pages calling them thieves over an affiliate payment you received. You are accusing the affiliate manager of Libertyslots of being in cahoots with the imaginary thievery, and going on and on about how they are crooks.

All for $350 - that you received.

I can see how some people have issue on the mysterious appearance of the casino group. It's well documented here at Casinomeister - but to make libelous statements about Nick Yap based on your personal sour grapes ($350! ) is unprofessional and downright ridiculous. You are delusional - and I'm prepared to publish the docs we have concerning your PAB (to include your colorful comments) to clear CasinoCoins' and Nick's name.

The "secret" licensing is alarming - alarming in the manner that it should not be necessary to keep this information out of the public eye. That's enough for me to consider placing them into the not recommended section of the rogue pit.

But then we can open up a debate on how important licensing really is when there is self-regulation. (please initiate that in another thread if need be). We know that it's primarily set up for tax purposes - player service and protection is usually not a priority.

I also have not seen any evidence that this casino has been poaching players from a defunct CasinoCoins database. As far as I can tell, Libertyslots is starting from scratch sans some of the administrative aspects (Vegas Tech, website templates, ex-CC employees, auditing service).

If there are any outstanding real (not imaginary) issues, I'm all eyes and ears.

 

[conker]

I always think it is bad Karma to be taking your frustration out on an employee of a casino or a casino affiliate program. Especially using their full name and calling them all sorts of things. It's not professional and it's also very unfair.

 

[The Dude]

Anyway, back to issue.

@ LibertySlots: What is your licensing jurisdiction? Please let us know. Thanks!

 

[mattsgame]

I also have not seen any evidence that this casino has been poaching players from a defunct CasinoCoins database. As far as I can tell, Libertyslots is starting from scratch sans some of the administrative aspects (Vegas Tech, website templates, ex-CC employees, auditing service).

Didn't all ex players of the Casino Coins group of casinos receive emails from Liberty Slots inviting them to try them out?

 

[The Dude]

Didn't all ex players of the Casino Coins group of casinos receive emails from Liberty Slots inviting them to try them out?

Not that I am aware of. If they were poaching players, I'm sure the affy community would be flipping out in the fora. I haven't really seen any indication of that. On the contrary, some of the more active affiliates are already promoting them.

 

[mattsgame]

Not that I am aware of. If they were poaching players, I'm sure the affy community would be flipping out in the fora. I haven't really seen any indication of that. On the contrary, some of the more active affiliates are already promoting them.

I am going from the replies in This thread after your post mate.

I do see some Affiliates have done a complete back flip on them and yet there is still no more information available about them than when they first arrived on the scene. Some of the sites promoting them, still have a post or something about their disgust and that players should not trust them, so what is a player to think?

Not sure if this has been posted before, I couldn't find it searching, but W.G.S Technology have a website up now

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

, I know Jetset was looking for it in the other thread. Not really that much information on the site though.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I am going from the replies in This thread after your post mate.

I do see some Affiliates have done a complete back flip on them and yet there is still no more information available about them than when they first arrived on the scene. Some of the sites promoting them, still have a post or something about their disgust and that players should not trust them, so what is a player to think?

Not sure if this has been posted before, I couldn't find it searching, but W.G.S Technology have a website up now

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

, I know Jetset was looking for it in the other thread. Not really that much information on the site though.

Thank you for visiting WGS Technology. WGS Technology is a premiere software development and technical support company that is built on a foundation of 14 years’ experience in the online gaming industry.



Our award winning software has been used in some of the most popular and reputable brands in the Market. While the software offers a wide variety of games – over 100 of them – particular attention has been given to captivating online slot games. Our tournament functionality is like no other and has become extremely popular with players in recent years.



We are very proud of our product. If you are looking for your casino brand to stand out from other traditional casino platforms, WGS Technology is your answer.

Really?

"your" software has been used in ONE brand, and it's respectability is a matter of debate.

The other claims relate to the English Harbour group and Vegas Technology, from whom the software was purchased "as is" around a year ago, Any "development" has been limited to a few tweaks here and there.

13 of the 14 years experience didn't produce much, as noone had even heard of this company before 2011.

It is Vegas Technology and the EH group that have had many years of experience, and has operated "popular" and "trusted" casinos and software for this length of time.

If this site is supposed to SUPPORT the PR story, it is a shot in one's own foot, as to me it renews suspicions that this is STILL English Harbour and Vegas Technology behind everything, and that THIS is the "dark secret" they are trying to keep hidden from players and webmasters, even to the extreme extent of shutting down any possibilty of tracing back through licensing information for the current operation.

For a company with 14 years experience, this pathetic effort at webdesign just does not fit right.

I suspect this site was thrown together in a hurry to allay suspicions that the company is fake because they have no web presence. This site does nothing to allay such concerns.

 

[lots0]

I told bryan i was not going to reply here but there are some things here that need to be said.

First... I did NOT start this thread.
Bryan, split this off from the combined thread that was started by that banned spammer from liberty slots.
Don't be a mensch, bryan, Don't give me the credit for what you did.

I also have not seen any evidence that this casino has been poaching players from a defunct CasinoCoins database. As far as I can tell, Libertyslots is starting from scratch sans some of the administrative aspects (Vegas Tech, website templates, ex-CC employees, auditing service).

You haven't seen any evidence simply because you haven't looked.

There is a thread at ADG where affiliates/players of casino coins/vegas tech are reporting receiving emails to their cc email account for Liberty Slots.
So there is a LOT of evidence that poaching players has happened... even to the affiliates that are currently so vocal in their support.

Old / Expired Link

I always think it is bad Karma to be taking your frustration out on an employee of a casino or a casino affiliate program. Especially using their full name and calling them all sorts of things. It's not professional and it's also very unfair.

Nick Yap was not JUST an employee of casino coins/vegas Tech he was the Head Affiliate manager, the top man, the big dog, nothing happened at cc that Nick Yap did not know about(Nick's own statements) and also according to Nick Yap he considered himself part of the casino coins owners 'family'....
Nick Yap was not just an employee he was the man in charge.

Nick Yap is also a personal friend of casinomeister... where I am obviously not.

I am not going to go on here.. The response to the personal attrack against me by bryan and the information about my 'measly' $350. is on this post at AGD...
Old / Expired Link

Now i am really not going come back... Because I personally believe that casinomeister is not a valid player protection site.

I pointed to bryan that casino coins was running a shady outfit that had stolen from me, at the time cc was trying to get certified here... bryan knew this and still certified them at casinomeister... Then a while back casino coins just closed their doors and ripped off MILLIONS from both players and affiliates... I'm not much of a "I told you so" kind of a person... but in this case... I told you so!

This is not the only time this kind of thing has happened with casinomeister...

I personally believe that back room deals and personal friendships have replaced ethics here at casinomeister.

I don't really expect this post to stay... So I will repost this in it's entirety on my site, in the casinomeister reviews area.
You can find it by Googleing [lots0cash reviews casinomeister]

 

[vinylweatherman]

I told bryan i was not going to reply here but there are some things here that need to be said.

First... I did NOT start this thread.
Bryan, split this off from the combined thread that was started by that banned spammer from liberty slots.
Don't be a mensch, bryan, Don't give me the credit for what you did.


You haven't seen any evidence simply because you haven't looked.

There is a thread at ADG where affiliates/players of casino coins/vegas tech are reporting receiving emails to their cc email account for Liberty Slots.
So there is a LOT of evidence that poaching players has happened... even to the affiliates that are currently so vocal in their support.

Old / Expired Link


Nick Yap was not JUST an employee of casino coins/vegas Tech he was the Head Affiliate manager, the top man, the big dog, nothing happened at cc that Nick Yap did not know about(Nick's own statements) and also according to Nick Yap he considered himself part of the casino coins owners 'family'....
Nick Yap was not just an employee he was the man in charge.

Nick Yap is also a personal friend of casinomeister... where I am obviously not.

I am not going to go on here.. The response to the personal attrack against me by bryan and the information about my 'measly' $350. is on this post at AGD...
Old / Expired Link

Now i am really not going come back... Because I personally believe that casinomeister is not a valid player protection site.

I pointed to bryan that casino coins was running a shady outfit that had stolen from me, at the time cc was trying to get certified here... bryan knew this and still certified them at casinomeister... Then a while back casino coins just closed their doors and ripped off MILLIONS from both players and affiliates... I'm not much of a "I told you so" kind of a person... but in this case... I told you so!

This is not the only time this kind of thing has happened with casinomeister...

I personally believe that back room deals and personal friendships have replaced ethics here at casinomeister.

I don't really expect this post to stay... So I will repost this in it's entirety on my site, in the casinomeister reviews area.
You can find it by Googleing [lots0cash reviews casinomeister]

A personal attack on Bryan and this portal only serves to undermine your evidence against Casino Coins and the new Liberty Slots.

The connection needs to be proven with evidence that could not be explained away by coincidence, and without reference to personal grievances as "proof" of wrongdoing or corruption.

 

[jetset]

And that's the problem with this whole 'debate' (not sure I can even grace it with that description)...speculation, guesswork, people going on tilt (again), complete about-turns of opinion without rational explanation (Nick Yap must be a helluva convincing fellow lol) and general confusion - that's my overall impression after spending over an hour following links and reading the various exchanges.

The result is still that there is no real evidence as to who is behind this outfit, what the corporate history vis-a-vis the software is really all about, and whether they've been doing some questionable stuff with old databases.

And we still do not even have an assurance that they are licensed and by whom.

For me, it all adds up to a very worrying picture of possibly deliberate misinformation and blatant concealment.

Me no like.

 

[The Dude]

Jeeze - some people will do anything for a little bit of attention.

Sorry lots0 - this thread is not about you, even though it's you who wants the limelight here, it's about what is going on with Libertyslots.

A couple of quick comments: no, Nick Yap is not a personal friend of mine. I had an enjoyable lunch about five years ago in Amsterdam with the guy, and I saw him for about two minutes in London last year where he mentioned that he was working for Libertyslots. That's about it.

But one thing that I can say without hesitation, he garners much more respect from players and affiliates than you ever will. As I mentioned before, you are delusional and you are making an attempt to make a big deal out of something that is not. You got your $350, right? Don't go on about principles - you are clueless when it comes to that.

Anyway - beyond the derailment of Lots0, I was hoping by now we would have a statement from Libertyslots on the licensing issue. I guess we have to wait until tomorrow.

As for the poaching, unless there are seeded player accounts, we can only speculate. We have had a number of players in this forum who were members of EH, and have not received promotional emails from LS. So where is the beef?

 

[Nifty29]

lots0

If this site is so crap and lacking in integrity, along with its owner.....

WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE???

You don't even have the courage of your own convictions.

 

[maxd]

You don't even have the courage of your own convictions.

It has been my observation that grandstanding blow-hards seldom do.

 

[X-Raided]

Hi Guys...

Been a while.

Some interesting info on libertyslots, that I thought I might share.

First of all there is thread over at affiliate Guard dog that some of you might find interesting.
xxhttp://www.affiliateguarddog.com/forums/welcome-slotsvendor-agd-certified-program-t4967.html

slotsvendor is the affiliate program for libertyslots.

The real kicker is that liberyslots says that they have a e-gaming license... but they are keeping it secret.

No kidding... they actually say are keeping their licensing info secret.

I have been doing some investigating and so far have not been able to find a license for them.

So far libertyslots has raised just about every red flag I know of when it comes to spotting a Rogue Casino.

So Beware...

Again, another affiliate tarnishing a (new) online casino's name over something that has to do with
commissions to affiliates and not over a player not receiving a payment they deserve.

Look here Lots0, please don't try to kill the reputation of Liberty Slots. You see, us Americans don't have
many options on where to play and having a Vegas Tech casino is a big deal to us. I said it before and I'll say it
again.. An affiliate not getting commission from a casino will NOT keep me from depositing there. However a player
not receiving a rightful payment that they deserve will.

I think Liberty Slots is doing everything they can to be on the good side of CM and I have been
observing their behavior, it's positive. Don't be a "big bad wolf" trying to blow their house down.

 

[Mousey]

And that's the problem with this whole 'debate' (not sure I can even grace it with that description)...speculation, guesswork, people going on tilt (again), complete about-turns of opinion without rational explanation (Nick Yap must be a helluva convincing fellow lol) and general confusion - that's my overall impression after spending over an hour following links and reading the various exchanges.

The result is still that there is no real evidence as to who is behind this outfit, what the corporate history vis-a-vis the software is really all about, and whether they've been doing some questionable stuff with old databases.

And we still do not even have an assurance that they are licensed and by whom.

For me, it all adds up to a very worrying picture of possibly deliberate misinformation and blatant concealment.
Me no like.

That's my feeling, too. There's too much we don't know. They're concentrating too heavily on the USA market for my liking also. (I always have Linwood - ran by the Feds for years processing payments for casinos- in the back of my mind.)

Even if I don't know who they are, if someone here were 'in the know' and could tell us, 'yeah, the owners used to manage Casino Whosits', or whatever, I'd feel more comfortable. It's all just too.... muddy....

 

[Cleveland]

@ X-Raided: I wish I could thank your post twice!

 

[chuchu59]

lots0

If this site is so crap and lacking in integrity, along with its owner.....

WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE???

You don't even have the courage of your own convictions.

Here to seek attention from like-minded crapfellows.

 

[mattsgame]

And that's the problem with this whole 'debate' (not sure I can even grace it with that description)...speculation, guesswork, people going on tilt (again), complete about-turns of opinion without rational explanation (Nick Yap must be a helluva convincing fellow lol) and general confusion - that's my overall impression after spending over an hour following links and reading the various exchanges.

The result is still that there is no real evidence as to who is behind this outfit, what the corporate history vis-a-vis the software is really all about, and whether they've been doing some questionable stuff with old databases.

And we still do not even have an assurance that they are licensed and by whom.

For me, it all adds up to a very worrying picture of possibly deliberate misinformation and blatant concealment.

Me no like.

Thanks Jetset,

This is what I was trying to put across but you have done it in a way better manner than I could.

Lots0 - I don't think there was any need for that mate, you have some valid points etc but your bringing them across in the worst way possible.


X-Raided - Respect you a lot and I see why you think it's just an affiliate issue based on Lots0 but for me its a concern in general and as a player, I cannot even remember if I was an affiliate with Casino Coins or if I started after they closed. (I know they didn't owe me a penny in any case)

 

[X-Raided]

@ X-Raided: I wish I could thank your post twice!

Thanks man. I'll post it again so you can thank it twice! j/k

 

[jetset]

Affiliate bickering, self-interest and expediency in the forums can be irritating for players, but I think it would be a mistake to regard this as solely an affiliate issue and therefore of little relevance to the player.

I say this because there is a very devious and apparently deliberate pattern of deceptive behaviour implied here that is the antithesis of what one should expect from an even halfway respectable company, and for me that is a massive red flag with dangerous implications for players when the proverbial hits the fan. There are plenty of historic examples of what happens to Internet players when things go pear-shaped with these integrity-challenged outfits...none of them uplifting.

Assuming that this fellow Nick Yap is working for Libertyslots, and given his industry background, he and his colleagues at Liberty-WGS Technology must know that the manner in which these very valid questions on software, spamming, history, licensing and ownership are being handled is creating real doubts regarding the integrity - and therefore business viability - of their company.

I really am surprised that no attempt has so far been made to set the record straight and give some semblance of transparency to a company that is, after all, operating in a business where trust is so important.

 

[The Dude]

Affiliate bickering, self-interest and expediency in the forums can be irritating for players, but I think it would be a mistake to regard this as solely an affiliate issue and therefore of little relevance to the player.

I say this because there is a very devious and apparently deliberate pattern of deceptive behaviour implied here that is the antithesis of what one should expect from an even halfway respectable company, and for me that is a massive red flag with dangerous implications for players when the proverbial hits the fan. There are plenty of historic examples of what happens to Internet players when things go pear-shaped with these integrity-challenged outfits...none of them uplifting.

Assuming that this fellow Nick Yap is working for Libertyslots, and given his industry background, he and his colleagues at Liberty-WGS Technology must know that the manner in which these very valid questions on software, spamming, history, licensing and ownership are being handled is creating real doubts regarding the integrity - and therefore business viability - of their company.

I really am surprised that no attempt has so far been made to set the record straight and give some semblance of transparency to a company that is, after all, operating in a business where trust is so important.

Excellent post, jetset.

I'm not going to make assumptions like lots0 over millions being ripped off by EH from their ex-players and affiliates. The proof is in the pudding, and I haven't seen any pudding anywhere. There is plenty of room for speculation, and in the end the truth will always come out. But Casinomeister is not about speculating whether or not unethical or rogue tactics have been placed in motion - we don't rogue companies on a hunch.

That said, players need to be warned when companies are operating in a haphazard way. The casino has made their intentions known that they are not going to provide players with any licensing information. Now we can discuss exactly how important licensing is - that's always debatable - and as I mentioned before, that's another topic all together. What is important here is that this casino has not given anyone a point of contact if anything goes wrong.


Now I know that players in the US are pleading for casino newcomers. They want more options concerning software platforms - RTG can get a little old after a while. But the thing is, if they choose to patronize casinos that do not offer any player protection whatsoever, they are swimming in shark infested waters.

I feel it's a bad business decision on hiding licensing info. They need to play ball like everybody else. If they are worried about repercussions from whomever for being transparent, then they shouldn't be in the business.

 

[The Dude]

Libertyslots - highly not recommended - in the pit

LibertySlots - highly not recommended.

You can read about it here:
https://www.casinomeister.com/rogue-casinos/

 

[X-Raided]

LibertySlots - highly not recommended.

You can read about it here:
https://www.casinomeister.com/rogue-casinos/

Has Liberty Slots been contacted about this thread asking them to provide proof?

Do they know this thread exists and what the contents are inside?

I'd like to see a response from them stating "yes we can provide proof" or "sorry folks, it is what is is".

Either way, as a depositing customer, I feel that it's their fiduciary responsibility to provide this information.

 

[Mousey]

Here's the tidbits of info we have from posts by the Liberty Slots rep, Dylan.

this is the software package we were supplied from the provider (Wager Gaming Tech)


Liberty Slots is now certified by CFG (

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

). Their seal has been added to our site and CFG will be conducting ongoing fairness audits of our games on a monthly basis.


Unfortunately we cannot accept Canadian players due to a restriction placed on us by the software provider.


We, LibertySlots, DO NOT own the software. We are a licensee of Wager Gaming Technology, a separate entity, who acquired the software from the previous owners.

Unfortunately, I do not know the details of their acquisition; however, I can confirm that LibertySlots licenses only the software from Wager Gaming Technology, no other assets.

I wonder if Mr. Jacobson knows more than we do? Maybe Bryan or one of the forum staff could ask him?

 

[The Dude]

Has Liberty Slots been contacted about this thread asking them to provide proof?

Do they know this thread exists and what the contents are inside?

I'd like to see a response from them stating "yes we can provide proof" or "sorry folks, it is what is is".

Either way, as a depositing customer, I feel that it's their fiduciary responsibility to provide this information.

As far as I know, they know that the thread exists. Hopefully they plan on addressing the issue.

 

[bonustreak]

Yes they are aware if this thread and I hope the not recommended status will prompt the owners to at least confirm their license and be a bit more transparent.

 

[silcnlayc]

Yes they are aware if this thread and I hope the not recommended status will prompt the owners to at least confirm their license and be a bit more transparent.

Same here because I really enjoy their platform and with the CM warning, I guess I will tread lightly until we hear something. Please come talk to us Liberty Slots.

.

 

[jetset]

From

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Wager Gaming Technology

Wager Gaming Technology is the brand new software company that is providing the fantastic gaming software for Liberty Slots Casino. It is thought that this new software is a re-branding and renaming of the well known Vegas Technology known for its wide range of casino games including slots, video pokers, table games and specialty games together with many more exciting options for online casino players.

Whats in a Name

The actual name, Wager Gaming Technology is registered and owned by Safenames Ltd, a well known company for promoting online businesses. The main aim of this new software company Wager Gaming Technology is to promote a complete and satisfactory user experience for each and every player that is 100% positive. At the moment there are no affiliate programs developed by Wager Gaming Technology for casinos like Liberty Slots Casino but management have suggested that these are in the works and will shortly be marketed. Another big advantage of casinos that use the Wager Gaming Technology is the fact that they accept US players and in fact welcomes them with their wide range of US friendly deposit options together with local customer support.

This begs the question is Wager Gaming Technology related to WGS Technology....but one is claimed to be brand new, whilst the other boasts 14 years in the industry?

 

[vinylweatherman]

From

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Wager Gaming Technology

Wager Gaming Technology is the brand new software company that is providing the fantastic gaming software for Liberty Slots Casino. It is thought that this new software is a re-branding and renaming of the well known Vegas Technology known for its wide range of casino games including slots, video pokers, table games and specialty games together with many more exciting options for online casino players.

Whats in a Name

The actual name, Wager Gaming Technology is registered and owned by Safenames Ltd, a well known company for promoting online businesses. The main aim of this new software company Wager Gaming Technology is to promote a complete and satisfactory user experience for each and every player that is 100% positive. At the moment there are no affiliate programs developed by Wager Gaming Technology for casinos like Liberty Slots Casino but management have suggested that these are in the works and will shortly be marketed. Another big advantage of casinos that use the Wager Gaming Technology is the fact that they accept US players and in fact welcomes them with their wide range of US friendly deposit options together with local customer support.

This begs the question is Wager Gaming Technology related to WGS Technology....but one is claimed to be brand new, whilst the other boasts 14 years in the industry?

That's not the ONLY question. How does one inundate potential players with "affiliate spam" when there is as yet NO affiliate program

It has been suggested that it is being done via the use of the old EH player database, something that has been denied by Liberty Slots. However, with no affiliate program, they can't use the excuse that this is down to their affiliates using their own mailing lists. The ONLY explanation remaining is that this is Liberty Slots themselves doing the marketing, and who have full knowledge of the sources of this mailing list.

Although not all ex EH players have received this marketing, has ANY player NOT on the old EH database received it?

Wager Gaming Technology is registered and owned by Safenames Ltd, a well known company for promoting online businesses

Well, this suggests that the company "Wager Gaming Technology" doesn't actually exist, the name is just a marketing tool, and is owned by a company in the business of promoting the products of others, rather than developing any of their own. This would be a convenient way to hide the true identity and location of the software developer, although the "No Canadians" term gives a strong clue as to their location

A high ranking ex employee of the old EH group just happens to have landed himself a job with this new outfit, coincidence or connection - it's hard to prove either way. It is not unreasonable to expect someone who has just lost their job to find another in a related industry, and with a similar role. Now, if the new company had the same OFFICES, and used the same furniture, kit, etc of the old, this would be strong evidence of a certain business trick used (and widely condemed) in the UK by many of the dodgier "cold sales" outfits, who rebrand after their reputation for ripping off customers has spead wide enough to throttle their abilty to sucker in new customers. There is certainly talk that EH left some unpaid debts in the wake of it's closure. If this speculation is even close, they DO have good reason for this anal level of secrecy.

 

[The Dude]

I haven't forgotten about this thread. I'm still waiting for an answer about this alarming situation.

 

[The Dude]

FTR - they have gotten back to me, but they are pretty firm on the issue of keeping their licensing obscured. Since they are US facing, they don't want the ownership to come under unwanted scrutiny. That's understandable, but they aren't selling shoes. This is gambling and licensing (read: player assurances) is a big part of it. The way Liberty Slots is going about this is a recipe for disaster. My recommendation to them is to drop the US market and focus on countries that are casino friendly.

But then - that would be bad for business, and we couldn't have that.

 

[Mousey]

FTR - they have gotten back to me, but they are pretty firm on the issue of keeping their licensing obscured. Since they are US facing, they don't want the ownership to come under unwanted scrutiny. That's understandable, but they aren't selling shoes. This is gambling and licensing (read: player assurances) is a big part of it. The way Liberty Slots is going about this is a recipe for disaster. My recommendation to them is to drop the US market and focus on countries that are casino friendly.

But then - that would be bad for business, and we couldn't have that.

Thanks for trying.

I have deposited there.... once ? maybe twice? ... tonight, when I get home from work, they get uninstalled - not that I'm playing anywhere right now, but that way, later on, if I get the itch I won't absentmindedly make a deposit there in future.

 

[The Dude]

One thing to add - this is definitely not a long term business plan. If I was a player, I would treat them with trepidation; as an affiliate, I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole. Affiliates who are US facing run the risk of wasting time with a company that is not prepared to become viable and established. Efforts should be spent elsewhere.

As I mentioned before, this company should be European facing - not US.

 

[vinylweatherman]

FTR - they have gotten back to me, but they are pretty firm on the issue of keeping their licensing obscured. Since they are US facing, they don't want the ownership to come under unwanted scrutiny. That's understandable, but they aren't selling shoes. This is gambling and licensing (read: player assurances) is a big part of it. The way Liberty Slots is going about this is a recipe for disaster. My recommendation to them is to drop the US market and focus on countries that are casino friendly.

But then - that would be bad for business, and we couldn't have that.

Sounds like bullshit.

Since when does knowing where a casino is licensed expose the ownership.

Many casinos use private companies incorporated in secretive locations like Belize to obscure the ownership without having to obscure the licensing.

Also, what legitimate jurisdiction even allows licensing information to be kept secret from players.

I can only assume that they don't have a "gambling license" at all, and in fact only have one of those "licenses to run an offshore business" from some place like Panama, Belize, Costa Rica, and keeping it secret allows them to claim it is a "gambling license" to players and webmasters alike.

The US authorities in any case go after the processors, not the offshore owners, as this is where the money is. Confiscation of large sums of money does more damage to an offshore casino than producing an indictment that may never get used because the owners steer clear of the US.

Following the trail back through a processor will probably come pretty close to identifying the owners in any case, as it will end at a bank account in a particular country.


Maybe they have something else to hide, and using the excuse of having to hide from the DoJ is their cover story.

If anything goes wrong, they can simply disappear overnight, leaving nowhere for players to go for their money.

I expect the software company is also a bogus front, as surely they would want to keep this hidden from the DoJ too.

English Harbour seemed to shut down under strange circumstances. There was nothing to suggest they were struggling financially, and they were very popular with US players. They vanish without trace, and then a few months later a completely new operator turns up with the same software, with an unsubstantiated claim that the software was sold on to a new company, that itself boasts of having been around for 14 years, and that the new operator had nothing to do with EH.

Despite this, the new operator was able to use the old EH website, the SAME server it seems, and was suspected of having the use of the old EH player database with which to kick start it's launch.

Following the old "dead" trail back through EH may well reveal more about LS than attempts to follow any new trail.

 

[maphesto]

How do we know that they have a license at all?

To make the question more complicated, is there in any way possible to start a casino (or close and restart... ) without having a license?

If so, this really is the beginning of a disaster. It seems like if the right person, with good business connections, can fool us all. AGD certified Liberty Slots affiliate program, how many good/decent affiliates started to promote them?



Or is there a license, connected to another brand, whos reputation is too low to admit?

Somehow, Liberty Slots have old user info about me, I don´t know if they have it from old VT casinos or if they have connections to other casinos. I have tried to get answer on this, but they haven´t responded.

 

[vinylweatherman]

How do we know that they have a license at all?

To make the question more complicated, is there in any way possible to start a casino (or close and restart... ) without having a license?

If so, this really is the beginning of a disaster. It seems like if the right person, with good business connections, can fool us all. AGD certified Liberty Slots affiliate program, how many good/decent affiliates started to promote them?

View attachment 32124

Or is there a license, connected to another brand, whos reputation is too low to admit?

Somehow, Liberty Slots have old user info about me, I don´t know if they have it from old VT casinos or if they have connections to other casinos. I have tried to get answer on this, but they haven´t responded.

I don't think they have a license either, certainly not a gambling one.

It is no problem at all to start a casino without a license, you just need someone prepared to host your servers and domains, and a processor willing to do the transactions.

If they have old user info, can you demonstrate that there is no "innocent" explanation for the level of detail they have, such as public data sources, general mailing lists, phone directories, etc.

The one real proof would be if they mentioned your account number at a different casino, as this would not be something they could get any other (legitimate) way than having the player dataset from the other casino.

 

[weplant]

One thing to add - this is definitely not a long term business plan. If I was a player, I would treat them with trepidation; as an affiliate, I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole. Affiliates who are US facing run the risk of wasting time with a company that is not prepared to become viable and established. Efforts should be spent elsewhere.

As I mentioned before, this company should be European facing - not US.

Oh, Great, take another casino away from us...
I understand where you are coming from, it is just so frustrating for us USA players.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Oh, Great, take another casino away from us...
I understand where you are coming from, it is just so frustrating for us USA players.

It's not about taking it away from you, it is about making sure players understand the risks.

It is possible that despite all this negativity, they will not screw anyone over. US players already take quite a risk, so in context the risks presented by this casino's odd secret license may not be so great when compared with the risk of summary seizures of winnings on the way to players.

The bottom line is who's ass gets covered first if things go wrong. Past events tell us it is never going to be the PLAYERS' ass that gets covered first. If the DoJ turn up the heat, LS could vanish without a trace because they have kept everything so secret.

Even where a license is held with a useless jurisdiction, players do at least have a government to complain to, and a place to start the search for their money.


Look what happened to Quicktender - similar attempts at secrecy, but who's ass got covered when the DoJ finally caught up with them. The same goes for EWX. Quicktender in particular gained a high level of trust among US players, and always seemed able to get the payments through whatever obstacles were put in the way. Suddenly, it was QT putting a heap of obstacles in the way of US customers being able to withdraw their balances when QT announced it had decided to stop serving the US market. All of a sudden, it had to be Euros, and into an offshore bank, something that was NOT generally an option for the average US citizen. They then allowed only a month for customers to find, open, and verify their offshore bank. QT knew damn well that for most customers this was never going to be possible, but would at least allow them to claim they were prepared to pay if proper procedure was followed. When a few customers did manage to get an acceptable Euro account, QT then found other excuses for holding up payment, or just stopped communicating altogether.

EWX didn't even try, they just vanished.

Liberty Slots? - who knows?

 

[cpdnd31]

Maybe Liberty Slots is the DOJ -- OMG I'm laughing so hard. Hell I wouldn't put it past them they opened there own processors up.

 

[Mousey]

Maybe Liberty Slots is the DOJ -- OMG I'm laughing so hard. Hell I wouldn't put it past them they opened there own processors up.

And it wasn't for just a little while either. The DOJ (Linwood) processed payments for something like 2 years... and they were damn fast, too.

 

[maphesto]

If they have old user info, can you demonstrate that there is no "innocent" explanation for the level of detail they have, such as public data sources, general mailing lists, phone directories, etc.

The one real proof would be if they mentioned your account number at a different casino, as this would not be something they could get any other (legitimate) way than having the player dataset from the other casino.

I started an account at Liberty Slots and when I later tried to log in I wasn´t allowed.

Please note your account information has raised security flags when processed through our data base

If they are new from scratch, and honest, how is it even possible that my user info is in their data base?

I have asked their rep to look into it, and he hasn´t replied for a few days and I can understand that they have worse issues right now.

I may be wrong here, but I think that I last summer noticed that I wasn´t allowed to log in at one of the unaccredited VT casinos. I didn´t care that much at the time. It was never an issue for me then, I thought that they might be tired of players who only played the free tourneys.

 

[footdr]

I have won often at Liberty slots and they paid with overnight fedex, processed my payment after the 48hr waiting period received payment on the 4th day following withdrawal the majority of time. within 3 days one time.

IMO they are the old EH group based on the vip bonus plan and other procedures that are exactly the same.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I started an account at Liberty Slots and when I later tried to log in I wasn´t allowed.



If they are new from scratch, and honest, how is it even possible that my user info is in their data base?

I have asked their rep to look into it, and he hasn´t replied for a few days and I can understand that they have worse issues right now.

I may be wrong here, but I think that I last summer noticed that I wasn´t allowed to log in at one of the unaccredited VT casinos. I didn´t care that much at the time. It was never an issue for me then, I thought that they might be tired of players who only played the free tourneys.

It's pretty obvious now what databases they have access to. This kind of "flag" would ONLY be circulated within the network of casinos using the VT software, as it is of no relevance to processors and their anti-fraud concerns. It seems they DID get hold of the internal databases from EH, and have NOT "just leased the software from the new developer" as a "new entrant" to the market.

If they have got the "negative value players" database, it is logical to assume they also have the "valued player database". LS are not interested in the poor value players, only those worth luring back. They would have more than just a list of email addresses. They would have players by name, location, and average drop. They could therefore target LS marketing quite well. This will lead to only some ex EH players getting the marketing emails, which so far has been given as evidence to support the claim that they DON'T have the old EH database, else ALL players would get the emails. What would be more telling is seeing NONE of the player community that did not have any accounts with VT casinos getting the email. If this was just a general mailing list, it could NEVER target that accurately.

Every time another of these coincidences crops up, the more I believe that LS is simply EH back from the dead; same people, owners, software, servers, etc, but wrapped in secrecy in order to prevent this link from being found, and all those owed money by EH coming after LS for it.

Affiliates will be pretty annoyed too, as this move severed their tags from the players, yet these players have been picked up tag free through the marketing efforts of LS. If they had admitted they were simply EH reborn, affiliates would expect their players to be moved over, and tags and commission agreements on them retained. Admitting such a connection, but refusing to carry over the tags, would result in a mass blacklisting on affiliate sites.

LS has only one long term option - come clean.

 

[Nifty29]

I think blocking the account due to only playing free tournaments at other casinos using VT software is justified.

Anyone who thinks LS and EH are not connected is kidding themselves.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I think blocking the account due to only playing free tournaments at other casinos using VT software is justified.

Anyone who thinks LS and EH are not connected is kidding themselves.

Yes, it's a justified response, but is yet more proof that LS have been lying all along about their being an independent new entrant, using the software only after a new (or 14 year old unheard of) developer bought it off VT. All such connections should have died with the old EH and VT, but it seems LS have EVERYTHING that EH and VT had, not just the software from the new supplier.

The new vendor looks a bit sketchy too, basic website, and one that was found only after the rep was made aware that finding evidence of the new vendor would support his claims that the software was indeed sold on, and licensed from this new developer.

Maybe they are operating on the SAME license as EH did, which is a damn good reason for keeping it secret.

 

[maphesto]

I think blocking the account due to only playing free tournaments at other casinos using VT software is justified.

Some derail here:

I have another guess now, after some investigation and thinking.

Don´t think it was the tournaments.

I was a depositing and returning player at EH during 2010, if I remember correct. I was probably around 200$ up, with all deposits and withdrawals. I have never had an issue with them. Only deposited without bonus. They could never have me on a negative list due to my play there. At Online Vegas, I was ONCE able to withdraw. This was 2010. I think that they didn´t have free tournaments the last year before they closed. It could not have been those either.

It must have been at Crazy Slots or GO/Golden casino. I don´t think I ever deposited OR made withdrawals at those. They are now White Labels at Top Game. And at Top Game, and the white labels I have been banned for years. Maybe Crazy Slots/GO/Golden checked their data bases last year and banned players that Top Game already have banned?

BTW, Crazy Slots name now is crazyslotsclub and the other one is goldencasinoclub.

Anyone who thinks LS and EH are not connected is kidding themselves.

Many affiliates really do believe in them, or they claim they do, to earn money on the US market.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Some derail here:

I have another guess now, after some investigation and thinking.

Don´t think it was the tournaments.

I was a depositing and returning player at EH during 2010, if I remember correct. I was probably around 200$ up, with all deposits and withdrawals. I have never had an issue with them. Only deposited without bonus. They could never have me on a negative list due to my play there. At Online Vegas, I was ONCE able to withdraw. This was 2010. I think that they didn´t have free tournaments the last year before they closed. It could not have been those either.

It must have been at Crazy Slots or GO/Golden casino. I don´t think I ever deposited OR made withdrawals at those. They are now White Labels at Top Game. And at Top Game, and the white labels I have been banned for years. Maybe Crazy Slots/GO/Golden checked their data bases last year and banned players that Top Game already have banned?

BTW, Crazy Slots name now is crazyslotsclub and the other one is goldencasinoclub.




Many affiliates really do believe in them, or they claim they do, to earn money on the US market.

This is even LESS believable than the free tournament theory, as it requires LS to be connected to Top Game in some way. As a new entrant, the ONLY database that LS would legitimately have access to is one held by a processor, which would be flagging players suspected of fraud, or who engaged in "irregular activities".

New Top Game casinos would probably use a Top game dataset and ban players listed on it, but LS have NEVER been Top Game, and have only been around for a few months under the new VT software.

Maybe there is yet another connection, on top of the suspected links with EH.

 

[Nifty29]

Yes, it's a justified response, but is yet more proof that LS have been lying all along about their being an independent new entrant, using the software only after a new (or 14 year old unheard of) developer bought it off VT. All such connections should have died with the old EH and VT, but it seems LS have EVERYTHING that EH and VT had, not just the software from the new supplier.

The new vendor looks a bit sketchy too, basic website, and one that was found only after the rep was made aware that finding evidence of the new vendor would support his claims that the software was indeed sold on, and licensed from this new developer.

Maybe they are operating on the SAME license as EH did, which is a damn good reason for keeping it secret.

I hadn't thought of that....but it might explain the shadiness of the whole affair.

It might also call into question the licensing authority for allowing an operator to completely change their brand etc without having to apply for a new licence. I would have thought a licence is required for each casino, rather than just per operator/group....but that area is not my forte so I could be wrong.