Ladbrokes threatening to cut sponsership

[shadow123]

Seems Ladbrokes are putting profit over responsible gaming, threatening to cut sponsorship if
Fotb stakes are cut, cynical or what.I would make them scrap all the fotb,s and give them
a pie factory if they were lucky.Responsible gaming my arse.

 

[lewisnadasurf]

Where is your source for this please?

 

[steveh35]

Old / Expired Link

I closed my Ladbrokes account down many years ago not a nice company they refused to let me choose my deposit limits and when I asked to close it down I had to speak to a rude manager who clearly couldn't be bothered with the process and made me feel like I was a criminal for asking to close it.

You can tell they own the majority share in SIS and are responsible for the recent irish racing tv rights fiasco.

 

[shadow123]

sky news and a few other sources on the web, do a search for it,sorry no links

 

[lewisnadasurf]

To be 100% fair if you can only do £2 a spin on a FOBT then do you need RG as aggressively ??

 

[shadow123]

yep but the bookies are fighting to keep £100 stake,think it will end up at £20 on roulette, which will bugger up martidale betting,
£2 will stop it altogether.

 

[lewisnadasurf]

Hmmm. I’d like to know who at Ladbrokes said that. No names. It makes sense. If you cut revenue you have to make synergies. ?

 

[colinsunderland]

Not sure what the problem is tbh. All high street bookies make massive revenue from FOTB's, in fact some shops are only profitable because of them.
If that revenue is cut drastically then any business would look at ways of cutting back expenditure to cover the loss. From a business point of view its completely sensible.

 

[geordiecolin]

Seems Ladbrokes are putting profit over responsible gaming, threatening to cut sponsorship if
Fotb stakes are cut, cynical or what.I would make them scrap all the fotb,s and give them
a pie factory if they were lucky.Responsible gaming my arse.

I don't have a huge respect for Ladbrokes by a long shot but any business has to roll with the punches and in this case they are simply recognising the impact on their profits and their ability to invest in advertising to compensate for the changes.
The last Labour government chose short term gain over long term aim in opening up gambling in general by removing so many restrictions and UK society has paid the price for it in terms of how it effects family life and society in general.
For once I would like to see UK bookmakers express their welcoming a change imposed on FOTB'S by the government because they would never do it themselves even if they did have a heart because they would have to do it as an across the board agreement. Something I have never seen happen without being forced to by law.
In this case I can understand where Ladbrokes are coming from

 

[snorky510238]

In my opinion it can't come quick enough.FOBTS have been the biggest con of all time.They are rigged so badly it's untrue.The problem high street bookmakers have is they know that will spark the beginning of the end.As for the past 15 Years betting shops have become FOBT orientated with little or no focus on promoting anything else therefore the whole industry depends on these heaps of crap. The roulette is obviously the money maker where you can wager a £100 a spin.With a reduction to £2 a spin they will be lucky to get anybody playing it and the high rollers won't be interested in the slightest costing them millions of pounds a year. well all I can say is you only have yourselves to blame(Hils,Ladbrokes,Corals)You've had it to good to long.Continually robbing customers with false rtps.If you had played fair and not been so greedy it wouldn't have come to this.You only have yourselves to blame.I have no sympathy for them at all just have to question why it's taken so long.When common sense could have saved hundreds of marriages and in some cases sadly lives.

 

[geordiecolin]

In my opinion it can't come quick enough.FOBTS have been the biggest con of all time.They are rigged so badly it's untrue.The problem high street bookmakers have is they know that will spark the beginning of the end.As for the past 15 Years betting shops have become FOBT orientated with little or no focus on promoting anything else therefore the whole industry depends on these heaps of crap. The roulette is obviously the money maker where you can wager a £100 a spin.With a reduction to £2 a spin they will be lucky to get anybody playing it and the high rollers won't be interested in the slightest costing them millions of pounds a year. well all I can say is you only have yourselves to blame(Hils,Ladbrokes,Corals)You've had it to good to long.Continually robbing customers with false rtps.If you had played fair and not been so greedy it wouldn't have come to this.You only have yourselves to blame.I have no sympathy for them at all just have to question why it's taken so long.When common sense could have saved hundreds of marriages and in some cases sadly lives.

I totally agree. Labour did everything they could while in power to give the impression of prosperity without thinking about the long term as far as either the countries health and well being or its future standing. This has been the case with every government since the late 70's at least. They have all been more fixated on winning the next election at the expense of long term planning.
But that would lead to another thread

 

[lewisnadasurf]

In my opinion it can't come quick enough.FOBTS have been the biggest con of all time.They are rigged so badly it's untrue.The problem high street bookmakers have is they know that will spark the beginning of the end.As for the past 15 Years betting shops have become FOBT orientated with little or no focus on promoting anything else therefore the whole industry depends on these heaps of crap. The roulette is obviously the money maker where you can wager a £100 a spin.With a reduction to £2 a spin they will be lucky to get anybody playing it and the high rollers won't be interested in the slightest costing them millions of pounds a year. well all I can say is you only have yourselves to blame(Hils,Ladbrokes,Corals)You've had it to good to long.Continually robbing customers with false rtps.If you had played fair and not been so greedy it wouldn't have come to this.You only have yourselves to blame.I have no sympathy for them at all just have to question why it's taken so long.When common sense could have saved hundreds of marriages and in some cases sadly lives.

Fake RTPs? Really? I know they’re scummy machines but they are regulated

 

[snorky510238]

Fake RTPs? Really? I know they’re scummy machines but they are regulated

If they are regulated properly.1 the person either does not know what they are looking for.2 they like £50 notes in polythene bags or 3 the providers have a way of making everything look legitimate when they are anything but.

 

[TheAddict]

Last week Watched thai flower lose the 2nd of 2 pie gambles for a mate, about 13/17 times when the pie was 65/75% fav. 100 jacker. Put in 280 for 160 collect on 1quid spins lol. Can still hear the pathetic repetative spin tune now. Was in a wetherspoons mind

Was gambling 10+ each time

 

[lewisnadasurf]

If they are regulated properly.1 the person either does not know what they are looking for.2 they like £50 notes in polythene bags or 3 the providers have a way of making everything look legitimate when they are anything but.

Sorry I disagree with you there mate. The government are doing a massive review on FOBTs as it is, and surely Labour would have piped up by now if there was suspicions of fraud on the providers part. SG who provide the machines for Coral at least have got far too much to lose to risk a few extra %

 

[aceking123]

Fobt are no different from online games , the only difference is your not getting a fair game in terms of these machines are being capped at £500 , at least with online there is a larger cap , Fobt use a main server just like other games , although i guess that they are clumped together from one main server but , they show the odds & doubt that they don't fall to foul play, you may have one shop clumping out big wins but another three paying nothing, does not mean they are bent, im sure if you pulled the data from each Fobt at random it wouldn't be far from what the rtp is stating.

 

[snorky510238]

Why do you think they are doing a massive review?It's just 15 years to late.

 

[slotter999]

Fake RTPs? Really? I know they’re scummy machines but they are regulated

This person continually posts this sort of nonsense.

FOBTs must be the most regulated and scrutinised form of fixed odds gambling in the country.

I think there is lots of room for discussion regarding the social impact of these machines and their wider impact on society. I think there is lots of room for discussion regarding minimum bet sizes. But there is no discussion as to whether or not they provide a fair game as per the game rules provided. They are fair in that sense and most certainly not 'rigged'.

 

[snorky510238]

This person continually posts this sort of nonsense.

FOBTs must be the most regulated and scrutinised form of fixed odds gambling in the country.

I think there is lots of room for discussion regarding the social impact of these machines and their wider impact on society. I think there is lots of room for discussion regarding minimum bet sizes. But there is no discussion as to whether or not they provide a fair game as per the game rules provided. They are fair in that sense and most certainly not 'rigged'.

Lol you haven't got a clue.

 

[paul7388]

Why do you think they are doing a massive review?It's just 15 years to late.

The massive review is nothing to do with them being rigged. I never touch them but they are not rigged.

The review is about the amount of people that play them and lose fortunes. The review is to cap how much you can lose in a spin. If they were rigged theyd be out the shops totally.

Some people are addicted and throw everything they have in them. But they would lose it all some other way.

Ever watched some people get their pensions and buy £20 on scratchcards. Then keep buying them till they have nothing left.

Used to watch people play the puggie in the local pub. They would keep feeding the machine til they lost everything. Even if they got the Jackpot and repeats. Machine will never pay anymore forages. Do they walk away. No they put it all back and then still throw what little money they have left.

Yes these machines need to be changed to help . But in the end it makes no difference. Addicts will blow their money on something else just the same. Just means they will lose slower than they do now on the FOBT'S

 

[snorky510238]

The massive review is nothing to do with them being rigged. I never touch them but they are not rigged.

The review is about the amount of people that play them and lose fortunes. The review is to cap how much you can lose in a spin. If they were rigged theyd be out the shops totally.

Some people are addicted and throw everything they have in them. But they would lose it all some other way.

Ever watched some people get their pensions and buy £20 on scratchcards. Then keep buying them till they have nothing left.

Used to watch people play the puggie in the local pub. They would keep feeding the machine til they lost everything. Even if they got the Jackpot and repeats. Machine will never pay anymore forages. Do they walk away. No they put it all back and then still throw what little money they have left.

Yes these machines need to be changed to help . But in the end it makes no difference. Addicts will blow their money on something else just the same. Just means they will lose slower than they do now on the FOBT'S

I do like all these comments where people defend things to the hilt based on what they have heard and what they believe with no concrete evidence but someone who thinks the opposite is wrong.

 

[paul7388]

Where's the concrete evidence they are rigged.

 

[snorky510238]

Spend 15 Years watching how these things work and observing stakes of all sizes then come back and tell me everything is legitimate.

 

[colinsunderland]

Lol you haven't got a clue.

Educate us with your evidence of what you are claiming then?

 

[snorky510238]

The massive review is nothing to do with them being rigged. I never touch them but they are not rigged.

The review is about the amount of people that play them and lose fortunes. The review is to cap how much you can lose in a spin. If they were rigged theyd be out the shops totally.

Some people are addicted and throw everything they have in them. But they would lose it all some other way.

Ever watched some people get their pensions and buy £20 on scratchcards. Then keep buying them till they have nothing left.

Used to watch people play the puggie in the local pub. They would keep feeding the machine til they lost everything. Even if they got the Jackpot and repeats. Machine will never pay anymore forages. Do they walk away. No they put it all back and then still throw what little money they have left.

Yes these machines need to be changed to help . But in the end it makes no difference. Addicts will blow their money on something else just the same. Just means they will lose slower than they do now on the FOBT'S

If the review is for the reasons you state ie because people get to easily addicted and a reduction in stake means they will just lose their money more slowly(which I can agree with to a point although I think they would obviously lose high rolling roulette players and a massive % of profit).Then surely online gambling would have to come in for the same scrutiny give n the amounts you can wager on 1 spin?

 

[snorky510238]

Educate us with your evidence of what you are claiming then?

I am close to doing that just giving considerable thought to how much I say.

 

[lewisnadasurf]

I am close to doing that just giving considerable thought to how much I say.

You’re being way too subjective here with nothing to back yourself up... I have had this argument before with people who just didn’t understand how an RNG works - they believed the RNG is rigged too. Which is just complete fabrication.

I do however have a question.

Does the FOBT Blackjack play random 52 cards just like in real life or does it also work under RTP? so meaning you will not get 99% RTP playing by basic strategy?

 

[snorky510238]

You’re being way too subjective here with nothing to back yourself up... I have had this argument before with people who just didn’t understand how an RNG works - they believed the RNG is rigged too. Which is just complete fabrication.

I do however have a question.

Does the FOBT Blackjack play random 52 cards just like in real life or does it also work under RTP? so meaning you will not get 99% RTP playing by basic strategy?

Neither blackjack or roulette have anywhere near the true margin that in itself tells you something.

 

[shadow123]

if I spent a year watching fobts I am sure my eyes would have melted☺

btw what is the rtp on fobt blackjack?

 

[colinsunderland]

I am close to doing that just giving considerable thought to how much I say.

Why? Just say it or don't.

 

[trancemonkey]

yep but the bookies are fighting to keep £100 stake,think it will end up at £20 on roulette, which will bugger up martidale betting,
£2 will stop it altogether.

The bookies aren't fighting to keep £100... they know full well it's coming down. They are fighting for £20 or £30 at the moment... and limiting that to table games only.

 

[trancemonkey]

Last week Watched thai flower lose the 2nd of 2 pie gambles for a mate, about 13/17 times when the pie was 65/75% fav. 100 jacker. Put in 280 for 160 collect on 1quid spins lol. Can still hear the pathetic repetative spin tune now. Was in a wetherspoons mind

Was gambling 10+ each time

Category C machines can be compensated. I don't know if Thai Flower is compensated on Cat C, but it will say in the help screens if it is or not.

If it's a compensated Cat C game then it doesn't have to be fair.

 

[trancemonkey]

if I spent a year watching fobts I am sure my eyes would have melted☺

btw what is the rtp on fobt blackjack?

Depends what Blackjack pays... but with perfect play it should be around 99.2% if Blackjack pays 2 to 1.

I think it's more like around 98.4 though with Blackjack paying 6 to 5

 

[trancemonkey]

Lol you haven't got a clue.

Well, he has... he's totally right. If you think you can prove us wrong, go ahead. I challenge you to provide proof we are lying...

 

[trancemonkey]

If they are regulated properly.1 the person either does not know what they are looking for.2 they like £50 notes in polythene bags or 3 the providers have a way of making everything look legitimate when they are anything but.

You don't have a clue what your talking about do you...

Do you even know that at every company that provides games for release in the UK (retail and online) there has to be PML (Personal Management Licence) holder who signs off every game to say it is legal and compliant.

If a fault is found in the game that is found to be fraudulent, dodgy, in purpose then that person is criminally responsible. They can do quite a long stretch in prison for it or have an enormous fine. Or both.

Here's a link to it for your reading pleasure:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

How many people do you think would take that risk in order to be dodgy? And if you're right and they are all rigged (meaning all providers would have to be in on it) that if it ever came out that they were the whole industry wouild collapse and a lot of people would be in prison.

And yet you still think they are all rigged.

Imagine how many people who hate gambling would LOVE to be able to prove FOBT machines are rigged. But they haven't. Why? Because they aren't.

You can choose to ignore fact and common sense and go with a feeling if you want... but at least listen to reason and don't dismiss it.

 

[trancemonkey]

I do like all these comments where people defend things to the hilt based on what they have heard and what they believe with no concrete evidence but someone who thinks the opposite is wrong.

I haven't defended anything based on what I've heard or believe. I know it because it created games for the market.

But even though I've done the maths, game design, compliance documentation and know FOBT games inside out, I still have no concrete evidence?

You're too funny Let's see your evidence then... it needs to be demonstrably correct and irrefutable

 

[shadow123]

The rtp on physical blackjack is purely a maths calculation based on certain rules, if the rtp on Fotb using the same rules is different
it could be said to be rigged either by throwing in losing games , or by using a non standard pack(s) of cards (fewer 10,s and pictures).
To be honest I dont know what the declared fobt rtp is or what the disclaimer on the game says.perhaps someone could enlighten me

 

[TheAddict]

Category C machines can be compensated. I don't know if Thai Flower is compensated on Cat C, but it will say in the help screens if it is or not.

If it's a compensated Cat C game then it doesn't have to be fair.

Yeah i know mate. Cheers though
I dont play em myself, was there for a beer and a punt on a compensated game and my friend got bored lol so decided to unload his wallet in it....

It is random version yeah, did say so in the menu. the 100 in the pubs. 84% 25p , 86% 50p, but he was playing man stake 88 % on £1 spins.
Must admit there is also a tease on it that is patheticly annoying, if it rolls full symbols of anything on reels one and 2 then the reel 3 gives a tease. He had that about 30 times, mostky with utter low symbols and still only once got a win (about 4 quid ha).

It was ugly how it kept losing the 2nd gamble when trying to gamble 20/25 for 30 odd in order to exchange for 5 or 6 super poo spins. Wne the pie was around 65% to 75% green.

The 2nd gamble did it god knows how many times like hardky ever letting it reach a chance for a 3rd gamble, i wish i counted but it was sickening to watch.

The entire 45 minutes was brutal

 

[TheAddict]

I should probably add in the spirit of fairness, the previous two times he has played it in other pubs he was 20 and 35 in bfore managing to get the jackpot, one time playing for 5 minutes and the other and left after 20 minutes. Though he hit those pies pretty much 1st or 2nd time for 30quid odd (can exchange 5quid for 1 supersin, 10quid for 2 etc)
But he got involved and, while probably not making the best decisions at times.. didnt manage a jackpot till about 280 in. Put about 40 back with wins keeping the balance up n down, for to get another jackpot .. coulda left about 100 down at best after played on a bit more but yeah lost about 130 140 ish in the end.

 

[CasinoNinja]

The thing about the FOBT slots machines is that their RTP is much much lower than online. If your playing the lowest stake it's somewhere around 87%! Even at £2 these days, the max you get is 91% or 90% in some cases. So that is where they make their money.

 

[snorky510238]

I haven't defended anything based on what I've heard or believe. I know it because it created games for the market.

But even though I've done the maths, game design, compliance documentation and know FOBT games inside out, I still have no concrete evidence?

You're too funny Let's see your evidence then... it needs to be demonstrably correct and irrefutable

There are more rogue casinos on cm's list than there are accredited ones and we are told everything is 100% legitimate and not to question things.