kiwi casino - resolved

seymour

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 26, 2005
Location
england
I deposited 100. Got a 100 bonus and played one hand of 200 blackjack.

I was on 400 and decided to come back another day to wager some more, when I did I found my account locked. I received an email the other day saying I'm getting my 100 back but due to a pattern of bonus abuse in the casino I'm not getting the 200? I'd only played 1 hand of blackjack. How is this abuse?

It seems this casino doesn't like people to win, maybe thats bonus abuse.
I mean they're all after a profit but to actually let someone deposit and play (risking their own money as well) then when they're up, kick them out and take their winnings. its disgusting
 

nafanny29

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 8, 2004
Location
London, England
seymour said:
I deposited 100. Got a 100 bonus and played one hand of 200 blackjack.

I was on 400 and decided to come back another day to wager some more, when I did I found my account locked. I received an email the other day saying I'm getting my 100 back but due to a pattern of bonus abuse in the casino I'm not getting the 200? I'd only played 1 hand of blackjack. How is this abuse?

It seems this casino doesn't like people to win, maybe thats bonus abuse.
I mean they're all after a profit but to actually let someone deposit and play (risking their own money as well) then when they're up, kick them out and take their winnings. its disgusting

If BJ is not specifically excluded then it is not bonus abuse but rouge casino abuse :eek:
 

thelawnet

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 4, 2005
Location
UK
seymour said:
I deposited 100. Got a 100 bonus and played one hand of 200 blackjack.

I was on 400 and decided to come back another day to wager some more, when I did I found my account locked. I received an email the other day saying I'm getting my 100 back but due to a pattern of bonus abuse in the casino I'm not getting the 200? I'd only played 1 hand of blackjack. How is this abuse?

It seems this casino doesn't like people to win, maybe thats bonus abuse.
I mean they're all after a profit but to actually let someone deposit and play (risking their own money as well) then when they're up, kick them out and take their winnings. its disgusting

That is disgusting rogue behaviour, if that is the whole story.

Absolutely wrong.

The main thing being that a 200 bet on blackjack with no cash to double up is a sucker bet anyway. Well over half of the time the casino will get your 100. And the rest of the time they get your winnings. I bet they wouldn't give you your money back if they lost.

So > 50% they win, and the rest of the time you lose

So heads they win, tails you lose.


T&Cs here:
In the interests of fair gaming, Kiwi Casino requires you to have wagered a minimum of 8 (eight) times your deposit and bonus before cashing out any amount higher than your initial deposit amount. Bets placed on Baccarat, Craps and Roulette do not count towards this wagering requirement.

This play bonus gives you the chance to play on a much larger variety of games when you are new to Kiwi Casino and is for wagering purposes only. The first deposit play bonus will be removed from your account after a withdrawal request.

R - O - G - U - E
 

clawback

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 28, 2004
Location
uk
Kiwi you need to address this issue.

A player puts his full balance down on 1 hand and wins so you hit the lock account button and kindly escort him out the door with only his deposit :what:

What a bunch of jokers.
 

samchopra

Dormant account
Joined
May 6, 2005
Location
San Diego
outrageous

if thats the whole story
thats outrageous
although it might be the best play for the player to double up real quick and take away the casinos long term edge, its his money and he could do what he wants with it
that bonus abuse is a garbage term
no where in the t and c does it say how you can play with your money
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
MUST READ: Posting Your Complaint

Welcome to the forum Seymour - first posting = complaint

But please take the consideration to read the posting rules for this section. I'll repeat them since you seemed to have skipped this:

Old URL
Before posting a complaint in Casinomeister's forum, please consider the following:

There are ways to deal with your complaint privately.

If the offending casino is powered by RTG, you can contact Montana Disputes section:
Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

If the casino is a member of eCogra, you can contact Tex Rees here:
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


You may also "Pitch a Bitch" with the Casinomeister here:
https://www.casinomeister.com/player-arbitration-pab/ (this service is only for forum members and subscribers to our newsletter, no exceptions)

There are a number of casino operators/managers and affiliate managers who are members of this board, please feel free to PM them before or after you post your complaint. They should be able to assist you before things get nasty.
Old URL

Fraudulent complaints will not be tolerated. This is not a message board that condones the bashing of casinos. If you are posting a public complaint, ensure that it is free of subjective and insulting comments and that it is truthful.

All complaints will eventually be investigated. If it turns out that the post was fraudulent in nature, the member will be banned and possibly invoiced for time and effort spent investigating the issue.

Kiwi casino is a member of this forum, and if you would have taken the time to follow these simple instructions, you could have PMd them to let them know what is up - thus expediting your issue to be addressed. But I guess I'll do that for you.

For the other members who are quick to judge with only the player's information at hand - you ought to wait until you have the full story before going off on tangents.
 

seymour

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 26, 2005
Location
england
Im really sorry casinomeister and believe me I'd rather my first post wasn't a complaint. I'd already emailed kiwi casino a few times and they weren't budgeing. You say you have spoke to someone about the issue?
 

Gaming Partners

Casino Representative
Joined
Apr 29, 2005
Location
Christchurch, New Zealand
Player dispute

seymour said:
I deposited 100. Got a 100 bonus and played one hand of 200 blackjack.

I was on 400 and decided to come back another day to wager some more, when I did I found my account locked. I received an email the other day saying I'm getting my 100 back but due to a pattern of bonus abuse in the casino I'm not getting the 200? I'd only played 1 hand of blackjack. How is this abuse?

It seems this casino doesn't like people to win, maybe thats bonus abuse.
I mean they're all after a profit but to actually let someone deposit and play (risking their own money as well) then when they're up, kick them out and take their winnings. its disgusting

Seymour,

Thank you for your feedback on Kiwi Casino.

Please email your Kiwi Casino Username to [email protected] so that we can look further into the situation you have put forward.

Bryan, thank you for your post. We are always open to hear constructive criticism regarding Kiwi Casino although, as you have mentioned, we do prefer, in respect of the players privacy, to have the opportunity to resolve issues directly with the player.

Regards

Manager
Kiwi Casino - www.kiwicasino.com
Kiwi Bingo - www.kiwibingo.com
Gaming Partners Affiliate Program - www.gamingpartners.com
 
Last edited:

tim5ny

Non-Gambler
Joined
Jun 8, 2003
Gaming Partners said:
Seymour,

we do prefer, in respect of the players privacy, to have the opportunity to resolve issues directly with the player.

Regards

Manager
Kiwi Casino - www.kiwicasino.com
Kiwi Bingo - www.kiwibingo.com
Gaming Partners Affiliate Program - www.gamingpartners.com

Sometimes the player doesn't get any respect until he posts at a forum like this. Most people that complain about a casino have already tried to work things out on their own before posting.
 

Gaming Partners

Casino Representative
Joined
Apr 29, 2005
Location
Christchurch, New Zealand
Player Bonus Abuse

Kiwi Casino has recently been the target of a significant level of player bonus abuse from the launch of its new UK (GBP) casino. In our view Seymor's play on Kiwi Casino UK is an example of this abuse. Betting an entire balance after depositing the exact level of the bonus match on Blackjack Switch is the classic beginning scenario of bonus abuse.

Various factors are considered when banning a player as a bonus seeker beyond their play alone. It is not something Kiwi Casino takes lightly, however in some cases it must be done to protect the casino from players with abusive playing habits who are there to take advantage of the bonus system in place. Bonus abuse is a difficult situation in the online casino industry and sometimes there are situations where we as the casino operator must make a decision, based on the best information available at the time, as to how to proceed.

UKDafoe has hit the nail on the head in his post regarding the play:
UKDafoe said:
Because I think the only people who bet like that are bonus abusers.
From the 1st of July, bonus system changes have taken place in Kiwi Casino to prevent further bonuses abuses of this nature from occurring.

Regards

Kiwi Casino Management
 

paul02085

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 29, 2002
Location
USA
"For the other members who are quick to judge with only the player's information at hand - you ought to wait until you have the full story before going off on tangents."

I guess we have the full story now?
 

Webzcas

Winter is Coming!
Staff member
Joined
Mar 31, 2005
Location
Block S25, South Stand, Ashton Gate, BS3
This convinces me more that bonuses, in particular new player sign up bonuses are bad news. You obviously get players in the form of bonus hunters that abuse them and casinos rightly trying to stop said bonus hunters. Unfortunately however some innocent players can and do get caught in the crossfire. I'm not referring to this particular case, just making a general observation regarding new player sign up bonuses.
 

KasinoKing

WebMeister & Slotaholic..
webmeister
PABnonaccred
CAG
MM
Joined
Aug 25, 2004
Location
Bexhill on sea, England
Ive only just spotted this thread and find this is one of the rare occasions that I disagree with the Meister.

I think seymore was totally right to make his initial post here.
People should be warned of any casino that pulls the old anything we deem to be bonus abuse will get your account locked even if youve not broken a specifically stated condition BS.

The good thing here is we dont have to just take this new posters word for it, because Kiwi have admitted it themselves in the post above!

In my opinion this is totally unacceptable behaviour on the part of the casino. If they dont want people to use this tactic they should say so in the T&Cs or simply put a maximum bet limit of say $25 on players who are completing a WR for a bonus. Not rocket science, but would have saved at least this bit of bad PR.

I have noticed that 4 or 5 of the top complaints at the moment are related to Playtech casinos methinks they need to get their acts sorted out damn fast, or soon they will all be tarred with the same brush as has happened with Rip-off The Gamblers. :(
 

thelawnet

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 4, 2005
Location
UK
Gaming Partners said:
Kiwi Casino has recently been the target of a significant level of player bonus abuse from the launch of its new UK (GBP) casino. In our view Seymor's play on Kiwi Casino UK is an example of this abuse. Betting an entire balance after depositing the exact level of the bonus match on Blackjack Switch is the classic beginning scenario of bonus abuse.

Various factors are considered when banning a player as a bonus seeker beyond their play alone. It is not something Kiwi Casino takes lightly, however in some cases it must be done to protect the casino from players with abusive playing habits who are there to take advantage of the bonus system in place. Bonus abuse is a difficult situation in the online casino industry and sometimes there are situations where we as the casino operator must make a decision, based on the best information available at the time, as to how to proceed.

UKDafoe has hit the nail on the head in his post regarding the play:

From the 1st of July, bonus system changes have taken place in Kiwi Casino to prevent further bonuses abuses of this nature from occurring.

Regards

Kiwi Casino Management

I just checked your website and it says 100% bonus, removed on withdrawal. It doesn't say you are not allowed to wager 200 on a hand of blackjack.

So what are these changes you have made, as I cannot see any.

Another thing, you say that trying to double up is abusive, and that various factors are considered when banning. Were there any other factors in this case? And banning is one thing, but the policy of 'if thet bet had lost, then the player loses', and in this case where they won they lose as well. That is different from a ban, it is a 'can't lose steal the player's money policy'

I can't quite see why these bonuses exist if you don't want people to have them. You need them to get people to sign up, and when they have the nerve to win you change your minds.

Frankly it's not going to encourage anyone to sign up at your casino when there are so many layers of crap behind the 'free 100' you promise.

As a personal story, the very first casino I signed up to was Casino Tropez, which was spammed to me via email. They also have this free money policy which evaporates on cashout, a major trap of the unwary new player.

I read the terms and conditions, saw that I could get a 100% bonus. I also read that it would be removed on cashout. So as a new player to casinos I wagered the whole lot on a hand of blackjack.

In the event I lost, but imagine if I had won and they had pulled a stunt like this.

The terms there and here say clearly 'bonus is removed on cashout', so it is so blindingly obvious that wagering everything on one hand could let you win. If you don't like people doing this then say so.

If you don't want people winning, then stop advertising '100 free'. If the bonus attracts customers and makes you money, then offer it. If it costs money then change it so it doesn't. But don't try to screw people that follow your rules.
 

seymour

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 26, 2005
Location
england
In our view Seymor's play on Kiwi Casino UK is an example of this abuse. Betting an entire balance after depositing the exact level of the bonus match on Blackjack Switch is the classic beginning scenario of bonus abuse.

This is a classic. A casino offers you a 100% match up to 100. But they take the bonus back at the end. so.....

The only real choices I can see of actually withdrawing money at the end. (Yes Kiwi withdrawing money at the end, shocking thing to want to do for a gambler I know) are playing alot of videopoker/slots and hopeing to hit something big or playing blackjack. Now I don't like to play slots and I'm not good at videopoker so I decided on blackjack.

But if the casino takes back the bonus at the end I figured I'd have more of a chance doubling my money and then playing my usual way. Now I had roughly a 50% chance of losing it all. Would you have returned my money if I'd lost, no you wouldn't.

The way kiwi operates regarding bonuses is disgusting. It seems wanting to withdraw money from a signup offer is now classed as bonus abuse.

BUYER BEWARE: Playing ONE hand of blackjack makes me a bonus abuser
 

caruso

Banned User - repetitive violations of 1.6 - troll
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Location
England
This in itself is absurd:

"I was on 400 and decided to come back another day to wager some more, when I did I found my account locked. I received an email the other day saying I'm getting my 100 back but due to a pattern of bonus abuse in the casino."

He made one full-balance bet, and was an "abuser"? That bearing in mind that there was no split / double option, and as such the bet was ill-advised anyway.

Where do the Kiwi T & C state that you cannot bet your full balance? Where do they specify wagering patterns they consider non-abusive?

Not that I'm remotely surprised, but Playtech is currently coming apart at the seams.

Oh, and Seymour: you WILL get paid - I'm confident of that. You are one of the lucky 10% who found the forums.
 

caruso

Banned User - repetitive violations of 1.6 - troll
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Location
England
On the question of complaint procedure:

I agree that hasty postings don't help because the casino doesn't like bad press, but there are issues beyond facilitating the mediation process. The poster will maybe save another member of the "lucky 10%" from depositing at Kiwi, making a full-balance bet and getting robbed. That's a good thing.

People need to be warned what's going on out there. Maybe the poster didn't follow the letter of the law. Maybe that will invalidate his complaint. BUT, he's already assisted others in so doing, because we know now that Kiwi will rob you based on undisclosed terms. This is tremendously valuable information.

It's a double-edged sword, both posting and non-posting.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top