kiwi casino - resolved

[paul02085]

They will probably pay in the end to save face, but everyone here will know what kind of mindset they have. So much for #1 Casino.

 

[chuchu59]

Its sad to see such a splendid casino going downhill. Why dont they just scale down the betting limits if they cant stand players betting with their whole balance on one single bet. Alternatively,they can state in the Ts and Cs that you cant make a composite bet with both your real money chips and bonus chips.

 

[Bruce Hamilton]

Stick with Herr Bailey, who remains your best bet.

But Kiwi's accounting manager is Helen Waite... You want your $, go to H--- and wait!

 

[mary]

I have to chime in and agree the casino is not conducting themselves appropriately here.

By their own statements:

* They grant themselves the right to retroactively change terms of a promotion.

* They grant themselves the right to apply undisclosed "rules" going forward.

* They grant themselves the right to judge a player based not one session, but one *hand* of play

C'mon. This is bogus. If he'd lost that one hand, they would have happily kept the cash. Get real.

 

[Bruce Hamilton]

If he'd lost that one hand, they would have happily kept the cash. Get real.

BINGO! :notworthy
Seymore never tried to withdraw anything, he simply won a hand and doubled his balance. Kiwi needs to at least wait until a player asks to withdraw funds before determining if he's a bonus abuser.

 

[mary]

BINGO!
... Kiwi needs to at least wait until a player asks to withdraw funds before determining if he's a bonus abuser.

Bruce, you stinker, now there's Coke all over my keyboard.

Yeah, I'd say that would be the best use of their marketing efforts. Look, bonuses are meant to appeal to every player's Inner Bonus Abuser. Casinos count on gamblers, aka, "real players" to not cash out when they are ahead, and it looks like they didn't even wait to see if Seymore had that kind of self-control.

What's next? Removing the bonus amounts for *every* player that wins *one hand*?

 

[UKDafoe]

What Kiwi did may not be great, although I think they are right in that only bonus hunters do what seymour did. Seymour is a bonus hunter.

However, what Kiwi should do is only confiscate the bonus and the money won off of the bonus. Hence they should pay out Seymour his 100 deposit and 100 of his 200 in winnings, as the other 100 was won off of the bonus money. Kiwi should pay Seymour 200 pounds and lock his account from all future promotions.

 

[thesmacker]

What Kiwi did may not be great, although I think they are right in that only bonus hunters do what seymour did. Seymour is a bonus hunter.
However, what Kiwi should do is only confiscate the bonus and the money won off of the bonus. Hence they should pay out Seymour his 100 deposit and 100 of his 200 in winnings, as the other 100 was won off of the bonus money. Kiwi should pay Seymour 200 pounds and lock his account from all future promotions.

This is a dangerous way of thinking. If this is the case then basically anyone who wins would have their money confiscated. If the casino does not like the way people play with their bonuses then they should simply not offer them or put in their terms exact definitions of "bonus abuse".

By allowing casinos to perform such acts as the one explained in this thread, as players, we are allowing the casinos the right to make up the rules as suits them on each individual case. IMHO the player did nothing to defy the terms of the bonus and thus should be paid in full. If the casino no longer wishes to have the player as a customer they can lock his/her account afterwards.

This is very disappointing behavoir by a supossedly "good" casino. As players you should band together to stop these unethical acts instead of siding with the casino (as UKDafoe is) thus perpetuating and inviting this behavoir.

Cheers

 

[Gaming Partners]

Apology to Seymour

After further discussions with the Kiwi Casino Fraud Department it has come to light that there was a miscommunication regarding this player.

Kiwi Casino Management was of the belief there were further fraudulent reasons beyond initial game play which caused this player to be blocked as a bonus abuser. This, it is now known, was not the case.

The players claim to the winnings is, as the people on this forum have suggested, fair. All winnings in the players account will be paid out.

We apologize sincerely for this resulting issue.

Kiwi Casino has worked hard over the years from our opening in late 2000 to maintain the highest standard of player/casino customer service and interaction. In this case we have not met those standards. We will be reviewing our current bonus and fraud restrictions as a result.

Regards

Kiwi Casino Management

 

[KasinoKing]

Hands up all those who predicted this BS excuse would be the way Kiwi wriggled out of this one?

Oh well, at least Seymour gets his money back - I hope he goes on to make a killing with it!

 

[Casinomeister]

Hands up all those who predicted this BS excuse would be the way Kiwi wriggled out of this one?

Oh well, at least Seymour gets his money back - I hope he goes on to make a killing with it!

Well, I don't think it was so BSy. Like I said the fat lady hadn't sung yet, and I knew there were machinations in the background busy at work.

Running a casino is tough, and even tougher is playing bonuses in a way not to be pegged as abusive. That double-edged sword is always swinging around. Look-out!

And this is another reason why I like this job (eh? this is work you say?), running a forum where things are hashed out and everyone - casino managers and players alike - gains more knowledge which allows us to perform on a better level. Knowledge is power.

Kudos for Kiwi for coming through on this, and kudos for the forum members for not getting too overly riled up.

 

[MeganSpot]

Well, I don't think it was so BSy. Like I said the fat lady hadn't sung yet, and I knew there were machinations in the background busy at work.

Running a casino is tough, and even tougher is playing bonuses in a way not to be pegged as abusive. That double-edged sword is always swinging around. Look-out!

And this is another reason why I like this job (eh? this is work you say?), running a forum where things are hashed out and everyone - casino managers and players alike - gains more knowledge which allows us to perform on a better level. Knowledge is power.

Kudos for Kiwi for coming through on this, and kudos for the forum members for not getting too overly riled up.

You couldn't seriously risk money at on-line Casinos without access to information provided by Forum boards such as this one. So well done to all participants who made the end result materialise.

It's a bonus when am I left rolling around the floor in laughter, and I quote -

"Kudos for Kiwi......"

Oh please, please Bryan, I really can't take any more of the comic relief - but thanks anyway.

 

[thesmacker]

Kudos for Kiwi for coming through on this, and kudos for the forum members for not getting too overly riled up.

Kudos, NOT

Talk about creating their own problem and then solving it a bunch of days later and patting themselves on the back. I would say this is not progress. What about the guy that doesn't know there is access to forums such as these? I would say s/he would bend over and take it and there wouldn't be anything that player could do.

Kudos to Kiwi for folding under public scrutiny

No offense intended, just my 2 cents.

 

[Casinomeister]

I knew I would get ragged on for giving anyone "kudos".

I'm just a "kudoing" giving kind of guy

peace

 

[realwtfsup]

Nice to see this resolved.

Has Kiwi looked at it's passed records for players who bet all on one hand and lost?

Then have they sent the money back to the players who lost becuase they were using a bad system?

If not why?

 

[caruso]

Just hilarious.

This is what they said:

Kiwi Casino has recently been the target of a significant level of player bonus abuse from the launch of its new UK (GBP) casino. In our view Seymor's play on Kiwi Casino UK is an example of this abuse. Betting an entire balance after depositing the exact level of the bonus match on Blackjack Switch is the classic beginning scenario of bonus abuse.

"Other" reasons? Where was the mention of this? If there'd been the remostest whiff of "other reasons", we'd have heard about them. Yet all we got was tripe about "betting one hand is the "beginning of bonus abuse".

Kiwi Casino Management was of the belief there were further fraudulent reasons beyond initial game play which caused this player to be blocked as a bonus abuser. This, it is now known, was not the case.

ROTFLMAO. You cannot seriously expect intelligent people to buy this line of BS.

Casinos are judged by their actions. Sands pulled a stroke on me, then paid the money (which it wasn't about anyway) when they realized they'd screwed with the wrong bloke. Now Kiwi have done the same. Paying the money is NOT the issue and there is not the remotest "kudos" due for doing what they were always going to do when this hit the forums. The issue is: the casino has defined itself with its rogue behaviour. Affiliate pressure will almost always make these rogues pay up, but they remain rogues once they have so defined themselves with their actions.

Kiwi is a ROGUE CASINO and I heartily advocate everyone steer well clear of it.

 

[jetset]

"They will probably pay in the end to save face, but everyone here will know what kind of mindset they have. So much for #1 Casino."

Paul 02085 made that prediction earlier, and it's largely true imo.

I hope that Kiwi management has taken on board the lessons this incident provides, and that they are successful in applying these in in an attempt to reverse the serious loss of reputation this has cost them.

Glad to see you will get paid, Seymour.

 

[caruso]

Neat little Infopowa story for you, Jetset:

"The One Bet Bonus Abuser"

 

[555YY]

i personally played at kiwi casino about 4-5 months ago and lost all my deposit including the bonus in one or two hands of blackjack

after having read now the unpublished terms from kiwi i realize that i was, according to their terms, a bonus abuser (ironic since i receive promotion offerings from them every week in my inbox). seeing that kiwi have the sterling spotless gaming reputation as they claim, i fully expect kiwi to the right thing and refund my full deposit.

good thing i'm dealing with a reputable casino here, i was afraid for a sec there that a rogue casino would keep my deposit, whew!!

 

[jetset]

Neat little Infopowa story for you, Jetset:

"The One Bet Bonus Abuser"

We had them in Casino Cautions last week, but as you say this certainly makes an interesting "squib"!

 

[seymour]

"Please accept the apologies of the Kiwi Casino team for what you have been through as a player on Kiwi Casino.

As mentioned on the Casinomeister forum, there was a miscommunication between our departments regarding your account. There is no excuse for this. We are in the process of reviewing how we can make sure this does not happen again to another player.

We have actioned the payment to you of all winnings that were on your account before the issue arose.

Regards

Kiwi Casino Management"

Well I got paid today.
Kudos to casinomeister and to all the people who shared their opinions. thanks guys.

But as far as kiwi are concerned. This does seem like a blatant 180 on their previous statement and like most of you I agree this would never of happened unless I went public and threatened their reputation.

But all in all its a happy ending (for me at least)
Thanks again casinomeister people

 

[pstnpstn]

Well I got paid today.
Kudos to casinomeister and to all the people who shared their opinions. thanks guys.

But as far as kiwi are concerned. This does seem like a blatant 180 on their previous statement and like most of you I agree this would never of happened unless I went public and threatened their reputation.

But all in all its a happy ending (for me at least)
Thanks again casinomeister people

nice to hear you finally got paid seymour.
and i have one question.
if they do not lock your account
will you play kiwi casino again?

 

[seymour]

my account was never unlocked pstnpstn and with the problems Ive had and the amount of casinos out there. what do you think

 

[chuchu59]

Kiwi Casino has recently been the target of a significant level of player bonus abuse from the launch of its new UK (GBP) casino. In our view Seymor's play on Kiwi Casino UK is an example of this abuse. Betting an entire balance after depositing the exact level of the bonus match on Blackjack Switch is the classic beginning scenario of bonus abuse.

Various factors are considered when banning a player as a bonus seeker beyond their play alone. It is not something Kiwi Casino takes lightly, however in some cases it must be done to protect the casino from players with abusive playing habits who are there to take advantage of the bonus system in place. Bonus abuse is a difficult situation in the online casino industry and sometimes there are situations where we as the casino operator must make a decision, based on the best information available at the time, as to how to proceed.

UKDafoe has hit the nail on the head in his post regarding the play:

From the 1st of July, bonus system changes have taken place in Kiwi Casino to prevent further bonuses abuses of this nature from occurring.

Regards

Kiwi Casino Management

How can anybody still want to play at Kiwi if they provide this sort of answer and then say its miscommunication. Forget them!

 

[caruso]

Yes, and this was the HONEST response, not that ham-fisted crock of subsequent baloney "oops, we thought there were actually security problems, but we didn't say that, we said you were a bonus abuser after one bet, but that was a joke, and since there were no security problems we're going to pay you anyway", lol.

Why not just say "We got busted, so we're going to pay"?

Or the alternative currently in vogue, patented by Gambling Federation and now taken up by Sunset Palace: "This was the result of the actions of a vindictive ex-employee; we have now denied his access and apologise for the misunderstanding / overreaction / confusion / miscommunication"?