Kiss Casino

[Dirk Diggler]

Hi,

As the title says Kiss are trying to steal $2,250 off me. How the story goes is that Kiss sent me an email on June 9th. I redeemed the coupon FB683 and deposited $1,100 and received a $275 bonus.

I wagered over 13x deposit and bonus as the email says and cashed in, only to have the cashin denied and to be told I had to wager 26x deposit and bonus because I played blackjack. After some arguments about this with them I decided it was best just to do the extra wagering (even though there was no mention of it in the email) and got my balance upto $4,250 (playing around $100 per hand at blackjack).

At this point I withdrew $2,500 via Neteller (max withdrawal) leaving $1,750 in my account. Anyway after about a month of not receiving my money I emailed them to find out why. They initially ignored me only to eventually reply saying that the max cashout was $2,000 so it had been denied (this in itself amazed me considering the software allowed a $2,500 withdrawal), and to log back in to my account and re-request the withdrawal.

To my amazement I logged in to my account to find only $2,000 in there ($2,250 short), and instantly emailed them. They replied saying that under the terms and conditions of the promotion I am only entitled to withdraw $2,000. Clearly this is not in the terms and conditions that they emailed me (see below), and I have never seen this posted on their website prior to them sending me a link when informing me about it.


25% Match Bonus
Coupon code FB683
Deposit $75 or more
Redeem 25% up to $275
Wager 13x deposit and bonus

Terms and Conditions: *Bonuses cannot be used on Pontoon, Baccarat, Craps, Multi-Player Poker, Bingo and Roulette until bonus requirements are met. Coupon CT4PX requires wagers of 12x deposit and bonus on Slots and Keno to cash out. Coupon FB683 requires wagers of 13x deposit and bonus to cash out. Promotions expire June 16th, 2004 at 11:59:59PM EST.

In my opinion these have obviously decided to make up some bullshit rule about a max $2,000 cashout specifically to try and rob any big stake gamblers they can that take up a bonus - and even if it was on their site previously (which I very much doubt) it clearly wasn't on the email that they sent me with the offer, so how can they claim that I should be held to it?

I'd advise anyone to keep well clear of these scum bags - I'm complaining where I can and aren't going to let it lie. They're head office is in the UK (as am I) so i'll be reporting them to any UK marketing authorities that I can as well (anyone happen to know of any?).

P.S I know these are related to Giant Vegas and I've partially mentioned this on their thread below, but I think it's best I started a new thread so people don't miss that they're related like I did.

 

[celmoso]

$2,500 here

Same issue here except I only deposited $200 and am waiting for $2,500 via neteller since the 12th. They always are nice via phone, but no one emails me back like they keep promising. I was originally promised the 15th, but it's now the 16th... I filled out the "montana" form hoping I can get some help.

 

[Black21Jack]

I can Guarantee that if you deposited your $1100 and brought that up to $4250 you would have all your winnings and deposit in your bank right now. When will people learn? I played there and won $4700 on a $1000 deposit with no bonus claimed and guess what? no problems at all. Was the measley $275 that you most lilkely cant withdraw anyways really worth all this headache?

 

[Dirk Diggler]

I very much doubt that - these must obviously be having cash flow problem's at the very least with the length of time taken to process virtually everyone's withdrawal.

Anyway I think your missing the point - why should a casino give a player an offer and then renegade on paying the winnings? If I'd lost then I'm sure they wouldn't say, oh well we weren't going to pay you if you'd won so here's your deposit back would they?

If you (or anyone else) choose to play at this casino or it's sister after all the reports then I for one am extremely dissapointed - all your doing is helping to keep open rogue casino's. And what happens if you get real lucky one day and maybe hit a couple of RF's at video poker or a big jackpot on the slots? Would you then trust them to pay you?

We should all stick together and vow never to play at any casino's where there are clear problem's - this is the only way these continual rip off's from various casino's will ever end.

Why not just play at the reputable RTG's if you're not playing with bonuses? i.e. Phoenician, Nostalgia etc. You know for a fact that these are going to pay you no matter how much you win (and in double quick time) - so why keep open these rogue casino's?

 

[Black21Jack]

I very much doubt that - these must obviously be having cash flow problem's at the very least with the length of time taken to process virtually everyone's withdrawal.

Anyway I think your missing the point - why should a casino give a player an offer and then renegade on paying the winnings? If I'd lost then I'm sure they wouldn't say, oh well we weren't going to pay you if you'd won so here's your deposit back would they?

If you (or anyone else) choose to play at this casino or it's sister after all the reports then I for one am extremely dissapointed - all your doing is helping to keep open rogue casino's. And what happens if you get real lucky one day and maybe hit a couple of RF's at video poker or a big jackpot on the slots? Would you then trust them to pay you?

We should all stick together and vow never to play at any casino's where there are clear problem's - this is the only way these continual rip off's from various casino's will ever end.

Why not just play at the reputable RTG's if you're not playing with bonuses? i.e. Phoenician, Nostalgia etc. You know for a fact that these are going to pay you no matter how much you win (and in double quick time) - so why keep open these rogue casino's?

I totally agree with you on your point of us players sticking together. I was just posting my opinion on bonuses and in no way stepping up for Kiss Casino. My experience with them was from before I knew there was problems. I will not play with them again and if you read any of my other posts from this forum I do support fellow players and openly boycott any casinos that rip off and screw players around, as well as contact the casinos and request closure of my accounts. I do only play in the reputable RTG's like Phoenician and Nostalgia. The fact still remains that they will pay you if you don't claim a bonus. Bonuses are trouble. It makes no sense that you would be disappointed in me or any other player depositing at Kiss when you did the same thing. You should have done your research and did a search for bad experiences before putting your money in, and especially claiming a bonus since all the bad reports are from people who claime bonuses. In fact, I could not find one post that involved a cashout problem with only a straight deposit and no bonus claim. Before I put money in any casino I search Google and I post a question here on the track record of the casino and if anyone has been screwed by them. I did the same for Kiss before I deposited, did a search and found nothing bad.

 

[celmoso]

Lesson learned

I deposited at Kiss taking the bonus because I got spoiled from the online poker rooms. Everyone I pplayed at gave me no troubles with bonus' or withdrawals. So I assumed when I saw a few ads for Kiss, that they were ok too. Now I know casinos can't all be treated the same....

 

[celmoso]

An update on Kiss....
Got email response after reasoning withe them via email, and they now say they're having some bank wire problems, and to expect my withdrawal in the beginning of this week. I'll let you know....

 

[Dirk Diggler]

They haven't even responded to my last three emails

 

[jetset]

What these casinos don't seem to appreciate is that slowpay with suspicious excuses and ignored emails has been used over and over and over again by casinos that subsequently bugged out leaving players holding the baby.

I would definitely exercise great caution around Kiss and Giant Vegas until there are positive indications that they are capable of paying all owed players promptly and efficiently.

 

[rayharold]

Kiss and Giant Vegas Casinos

I had trouble with SLOW pay from these casinos in the spring. It took almost a month to receive my winnings. I have avoided them since and would recommend playing somewhere else!

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Finally got a reply from Kiss today - they once again said max cashout for 100% offers is $2,000 (it wasn't even a 100% offer I did).

I forwarded the original email offer on to them again saying no such term existed in it and asking how they can expect me to be held to a term that wasn't in the offer they sent me.

I'll update if they ever reply.

 

[celmoso]

Update

My situation takes a new twist...
Called them late on Tuesday and demanded a supervisor or manager. I ended up with a Diana who offered to try and rectify this for me. She called directly to Player Security (which all other phone support reps said was impossible) and spoke with the head of that department, Arnold. He advised her it will take a while to process a $2500 withdrawal, so if I reversed it and switched to 2 $1250 withdrawals, they can do one this Thursday (today) and the other next Thursday. So, I will update later tonight to let you know if they're just feeding me more lies or not.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Well this is the answer kiss sent me:

I will quote one of the paragraphs I sent you on my previous email:

The reason why you can't find this information on the mailer you received, is because we have realized that most of our active players usually read our website or contact us via email, phone or chat with all their questions regarding our promotions and all the rest of our services.

That is the answer Steve.
Be happy that you won the max $2000. It doesn't happen that often.

Sincerely,

Travis Kaine
Your Kiss Casino Host
E-mail: [email protected]
Telephone: 1-800-761-1302

So seen as I aren't 'most' of their players and I didn't read their website then I should be held to some term and condition sent to me in a link a month after I cashed out? (that could have been placed there at anytime)

I would appreciate comments on this - does anyone think that you should be expected to check a casino's website for some obscure term when they supply terms and conditions in an email to you with the offer?

If anyone's interested then here's the link they provided
Outdated URL (Invalid) - well done if you'd have spotted that the term was even applicable to the email offer (it's as clear as day isn't it? )

 

[caruso]

Obvious bull. 90% of players do no research at all, don't read the boards, just download and play. To suggest that that 90% actually goes through the site with a fine tooth comb to find any possible get-out clauses such as the get-out clause listed RIGHT at the bottom of that T & C page is obviously idiotic.

One thing I did recently was to take dated screenshots of the ENTIRE website of an RTG I played - I figured it was a hassle that would pay off big time in the event they tried this standard RTG sleight of hand. They didn't, but I'd have been ready for them if they had. It's a practice I recommend.

 

[jetset]

My situation takes a new twist...
Called them late on Tuesday and demanded a supervisor or manager. I ended up with a Diana who offered to try and rectify this for me. She called directly to Player Security (which all other phone support reps said was impossible) and spoke with the head of that department, Arnold. He advised her it will take a while to process a $2500 withdrawal, so if I reversed it and switched to 2 $1250 withdrawals, they can do one this Thursday (today) and the other next Thursday. So, I will update later tonight to let you know if they're just feeding me more lies or not.

I hope you get paid...even in two instalments over a week like this (it's sounding increasingly like CtoC's instalment plans!) To me it looks a bit like that thing called C.A.S.H.F.L.O.W. hassles.

Please keep the thread updated on this.

 

[jpm]

I like this part of their reply best "Be happy that you won the max $2000. It doesn't happen that often."

More and more casinos are making a part of the T&C that you must come back regularly to check for changes to the T&C. That way they can always put the blame on you for not doing so.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

I like this part of their reply best "Be happy that you won the max $2000. It doesn't happen that often."

I now what you mean - even more amusing is the fact it's been well over a month since I requested this $2,000 I should be greatfull for - and I haven't even received it

I replied to there last email with this:

Travis,

'we have realized that most of our active players usually read our website or contact us via email'

Well as it turns out I'm one of the one's that didn't read your website or contact you via e-mail (if this term even existed when I deposited), so why should I be held to terms that you only expect 'most' players to read?

When I am sent an email that includes terms and conditions why on earth would I think I needed to search through your website to find other terms and conditions? (that are blatently hidden away anyway with none of the terms actually mentioning specifically the coupon I redeemed).

I have discussed this on many online forums (including Casinomeister and Winners Online) and I am yet to find a person who thinks that you are right. If you send terms and conditions in an email then this is the terms and conditions of the offer - not some terms that you later send on a link that could have been changed at anytime.

I must admit I find your statement "Be happy that you won the max $2000. It doesn't happen that often" rather amusing - I take it this takes into account all the players that you and your sister casino Giant Vegas just don't pay winnings to when they've made this amount?

Even more amusing is that you haven't even paid me the $2,000 ($1,100 of which I deposited) that you say I should be 'happy' for receiving, even though it's been well over a month since I made my initial withdrawal.

When do you suspect you'll pay me this out?

I remember when you used Boss Media software and used Weddollar as your cashiers - oh for those days when players weren't ripped off.

To which they replied with this:

Sure Steve, you are right about the delay paying you the money.
I wish I could be more involve when it comes down to the Casino funds but truth us I am not one of the owners.

Nonetheless, let me check on that and I will get back to you as soon as I have some relevant information.
And yes, truth is that many players aren't experts playing Black Jack in such way that they are able to make such good profits when playing their deposits and bonuses.
Or did you think we thought it was only your luck?

I will be getting back to you later on today.

Best regards,

Travis Kaine

Notice the part I've highlighted in bold - so because I know how to play Blackjack OK, they're right to steal money off me? I played blackjack at $100 a hand plus, so it's not like I didn't give them every chance to win the money off me.

Statements like this make it obvious to me that they're trying to rip me off.

 

[jpm]

The attitude of these places is just mind boggling lately! Intimating that somehow because you know how to play blackjack properly, you are ripping them off or something. What a bunch of scumbags in this group!

I had missed that VERY important part about the T&C actually being included in the email, but not completely included. That makes a huge difference! That is just fraudulent behavior in my opinion. Premeditated deception, pure & simple.

If this place isn't in the rogue section already, they certainly should be now Bryan!

 

[bewitch]

The more I read, the less I want to play... Sad~ When will the casino realize it's very stupid to do things like this???? I started to feel there are fewer and fewer reputable casino exist day by day now.

 

[sw2003]

It is laughable that they said the player should be grateful for their win even though the casino is still holding and has subtracted some of the winnings.
Is this some form of a lucky tax that the player should pay when they got lucky and won?

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Just a bump to let people know I still haven't received a penny from these (initial withdrawal was the middle of June) or heard anything from the Montana commision apart from the initial email receipt.

An affiliate is looking into it for me as well but they were initially been ignored.

AVOID AVOID AVOID

 

[jetset]

This is ridiculous, and I've drawn the attention of RTG senior management to it. Please keep us posted here, Dirk.

 

[kavaman]

This is a bit off topic , but here goes

Are the only playersecurity casinos that are connected together Kiss Casino, And Giant Vegas casino.
Because i got an email from allmost all of the casinos about a existing player 200% match, deposit 250 get 500$ free.
Im starting to think, if and when, people are having problems with kiss and giant vegas, does the problem affect all other casinos under playersecurity (palace of chance, blast 21 and so son)...

-kavaman

 

[m249a]

Player deposits $1,100 UDS. Win's a grand total of $1150USD. Smart blackjack player tax 30%, luck tax of 30%, fee's for taking the time to respond to your email's 5%, phone fee's for talking to you directly35%, finding out you are smart enough to post on a forum, and having a meeting to discuss a plan of response to your negative feelings toward them, (includes a light lunch for the board members and support staff) $850.00. Having to yet again change their T&C's to justify scumbag tatics, $250.00.

It would seem YOU owe them $1,100........Would you prefer they charge your netteller account, or would you like to make a direct payment? No they will not accept a split or partial payment either!

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Player deposits $1,100 UDS. Win's a grand total of $1150USD. Smart blackjack player tax 30%, luck tax of 30%, fee's for taking the time to respond to your email's 5%, phone fee's for talking to you directly35%, finding out you are smart enough to post on a forum, and having a meeting to discuss a plan of response to your negative feelings toward them, (includes a light lunch for the board members and support staff) $850.00. Having to yet again change their T&C's to justify scumbag tatics, $250.00.

It would seem YOU owe them $1,100........Would you prefer they charge your netteller account, or would you like to make a direct payment? No they will not accept a split or partial payment either!

Not quite - it's a total of $4,250 they owe me and I haven't spoken to them on the phone. So that's only what, maybe $500 I owe them then?

They claim they are going to pay me $2,000 - I wonder how long that's going to take, if at all.