Jackpot Factory & US Customs

[linda7]

Hi everyone,

I made a withdrawal of 25K from Wild Jack casino last week. As usual, it was promptly processed and sent out via Fed Ex. However, it is being held in the US Customs office, in Newark New Jersey for investigation of fraud. I have called the Jackpot Factory VIP Department atleast 10 times, only to be given a complete run around. Instead of the casino workers moving their asses and trying to sort this mess out, I am calling everyone and their mother to try and find out if I will ever receive this package. I have never heard of US Customs holding up International checks and am at the end of my rope. Any suggestions? I have given up on calling JP Factory and Wild Jack simply because if I have to listen to one more foreign voice or a 20 year old kid, I am going to scream! I have PM'd the Operations Manager and am waiting for him/her to find the time to respond. In the meantime, anyone have any ideas as to what I should/could do? Any and all help will be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[blankley]

if I have to listen to one more foreign voice.....

How terrible for you. They shouldn't be allowed.

 

[thelawnet]

Hi everyone,

I made a withdrawal of 25K from Wild Jack casino last week. As usual, it was promptly processed and sent out via Fed Ex. However, it is being held in the US Customs office, in Newark New Jersey for investigation of fraud. I have called the Jackpot Factory VIP Department atleast 10 times, only to be given a complete run around. Instead of the casino workers moving their asses and trying to sort this mess out, I am calling everyone and their mother to try and find out if I will ever receive this package. I have never heard of US Customs holding up International checks and am at the end of my rope. Any suggestions? I have given up on calling JP Factory and Wild Jack simply because if I have to listen to one more foreign voice or a 20 year old kid, I am going to scream! I have PM'd the Operations Manager and am waiting for him/her to find the time to respond. In the meantime, anyone have any ideas as to what I should/could do? Any and all help will be appreciated. Thanks.

I can understand you are aggrieved at not receiving $25k, but if the money is with US Customs that would appear to be outside Jackpot Factory's control.

My understanding is that online gambling is illegal in the USA.

So what can Jackpot Factory do about a check inside US customs?

My reading of the situation would be that they could get the check cancelled and send you another one.... Have you asked for them to do that, as there appears to be nothing they can do about Customs authorities in a country they are not based in.

 

[MrWolf]

For that sum of money wouldn't it have been easier just to have a wire or ACH transfer?

 

[linda7]

My reply from US Customs

I spoke with the Customs Department and the reason for the hold up is that the checks seem to be fake! They are verifying this with JP Factory's bank and will take a while to confirm. In the meantime, I have been suggesting all week that they cancel the original checks and simply send new ones, but that was another problem altogether. I have put JP Factory in touch with US Customs and they will sort it out. Supposedly, I will have my check tomorrow (and it will be legit). We shall see.

 

[spearmaster]

Something is fishy here.

Customs are not supposed to be intercepting checks. Checks have no customs duty. Whether or not the check is fake, it's none of their business.

I highly doubt that JF would be passing off fake checks anyhow. But I suggest you call customs again and ask them to explain how their authority gives them the right to intercept a private communication with no products or dutiable items enclosed.

 

[UKDafoe]

IF Jackpot Factory declared the value of the package at $25,000 I believe the Customs department could seize and investigate it/

 

[The Dude]

if I have to listen to one more foreign voice....

Ha ha, perhaps that was what the CS rep in South Africa was thinking when he got the call from Brooklyn

Customs are not supposed to be intercepting checks. Checks have no customs duty. Whether or not the check is fake, it's none of their business.

Spear has a point. Something is up and I would grill the custom agents on why exactly this was intercepted. I run intoo customs hassles all the time. If I receive a gift from outside the EU and there is no invoice (for a gift - eh?), I have to travel for a good 45 minutes one-way to pick it up, and pay any customs tax due.

But this is a Fed Ex envelope. Sounds like someone is getting paranoid.

 

[linda7]

US Customs and Int'l packages

According to the US Customs "terms and conditions regarding International Mail" they have the right to scan it, open it and decide whether or not to process the shipment. It is at their sole discretion, and there is nothing no one can do. They did want to speak to JP Factory, and I gave JP the phone number yesterday, but they are too busy to make the call. Lastly, I just spoke with Eric from VIP at JP Factory and this is not the first time their checks have had their authenticity questioned. Personally, I do not think that JP's checks are illegitimate. I just think they could have put a stop payment on them, and issued me new ones. However, this must be the week that they sit on their hands as they have done nothing at all. I even PM'd their operations manager, he/she has not responded either.

 

[GrandMaster]

IF Jackpot Factory declared the value of the package at $25,000 I believe the Customs department could seize and investigate it/

Checks have no intrinsic value. You have to declare cash, traveller's cheques and similar items above $10000, but this does not apply to cheques. Whenever I received chequed by Fedex, the envelope just said "Documents". I think there is more to the story, it is very unlikely that the cheque would be picked out by a random inspection.

 

[linda7]

Reply to Grandmaster:

Hi Grandmaster,

Initially I felt the same as you. It took me approximately 25 phone calls before I stumbled onto the right department at the Customs office. Apparently, they are scanning most international mail, especially those from Canada (I asked for a reason and was not given anything specific). Then I was asked what was in the envelope, and I said a letter inside an envelope. They said "are you saying there are no checks inside"? I replied "yes there are three totalling 25,000 and what the hell gives you the right to open my mail?" They quoted their "terms and conditions regarding international mail and then told me that these three checks are fakes"! When I told them that I doubted this very much, they insinuated that I was naive. I was informed that they will be authenticating the checks and the bank on which the checks were drawn, and in either case, I would not be receiving this package. I immediately contacted JF, and gave them the number to the Customs Dept. so they could sort this mess out. JF has not bothered to call customs, put a stop payment on the checks, or give me any answer as to when they will pay me. Earlier today, they said they would issue me new checks and overnight them to me....however, their latest fairy tale is that Management and Finance must decide on the best way to proceed. I honestly, do not know what to think at this point. The fact that Jackpot Factory is doing nothing to protect their integrity leaves me with very bad feelings towards this group. Additionally, all week they have not responded to my emails, so I am forced to call them only to hear a new story in this wonderful world of online gaming.

 

[spearmaster]

Linda, something is still wrong.

Ask them for the specific reference to the Customs code which says that they can open your international mail - and either send that code to you by email, or a link to the specific statute online which says that they can do so - and if they can't, inform them that you will be calling your lawyers.

They sound WORSE than an online casino quoting terms and conditions!

Re: JF - believe it or not, there are many variables involved, including who you are talking to, who makes decisions regarding payments, how the problem is presented to them (ie. they may understand the problem differently than you do), etc.

PM or email me with any details and I'll see if I can help. But I really think you need the lawyers to stick it to Customs.

 

[spearmaster]

Ok, I got this from a Customs document online:

The United States Customs territory consists of the 50 states, the District of Columbia, and Puerto Rico. In general, all mail originating outside United States Customs territory that is to be delivered inside U.S. Customs territory is subject to Customs examination. Mail arriving from outside the U.S. Virgin Islands that is to be delivered inside the U.S. Virgin Islands is also subject to Customs examination.

Mail entering the United States from abroad arrives first at the U.S. Postal Service. The Postal Service then sends packages to U.S. Customs for examination and to assess duty, if indeed any is owed. Customs processing is required for civilian parcels as well as for those sent from overseas military postal facilities (APO/FPO).

Note very carefully that, while the first paragraph refers to mail, the second refers to PACKAGES. In other words, any such "package" would possibly have dutiable goods inside, NOT documents. Nothing I can find refers to their right to open your mail and inspect your checks for validity. Their job is to inspect the package and assess it for customs duty.

On Fedex, there is more:

The following items are prohibited into the United States of America by law:

White phosphorus matches

Immoral articles (as defined in 19CFR12.40) including films, pictures, writings, etc.

Merchandise produced by convict, forced or indentured labor (as defined in 19CFR12.42)

Counterfeit coins, stamps, currency or other monetary securities of any government and any plates, dies or apparatus used to create such counterfeits.

Switchblade/Balisong/gravity/ballistic knives

Merchandise from countries under U.S. Sanction or embargo

Articles containing dog or cat fur

Note the part about counterfeit - it says "coins, currency or monetary securities of any government".

Checks are not monetary securities of a government. Thus, Customs has no right to intercept or determine the validity of a check.

Furthermore, throughout the Fedex page (

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

) they refer to goods and packages - NOT documents!

In my opinion, they are toying with you. Get Customs to prove their case or release the shipment immediately.

 

[jetset]

Given the gigantic amount of international mail that must enter the USA every day, this letter (as opposed to package) was presumably picked out at random. Unless it was not in an unmarked envelope ie maybe one with "Jackpot Factory" or something like that emblazoned all over it.

That still would not give officialdom the right to invade your private mail imo, Linda.

Regarding JF's unresponsiveness, that may be because the idea of US Customs checking back on them may be making them nervous, given the legal uncertainties concerning online gaming in the States - it's a pretty scary thought even to folks outside the US.

They may be trying to decide on the best way forward, but that does not excuse them ignoring your attempts to communicate - they should be working with you on this.

 

[mary]

I just had a paranoid thought:

What if Linda hasn't been talking to any real Customs agents at all?

It's just such a goofy story, they're holding checks because they think they're fake?

Linda, were you provided the "Customs" contact information by the casino? Or did you get it out of the phone book?

I agree that the casino should just cancel the checks and send new ones. heck, why they are messing about with checks at all is a mystery. She deposited and gambled electronically why not get paid electronically.

And why three checks? My paranoid mind looks at that and thinks, "hm. avoids any checks over $10k. That way bank reporting will not be triggered."

That's bad juju too.

 

[Annorax]

I just had a paranoid thought:

What if Linda hasn't been talking to any real Customs agents at all?

It's just such a goofy story, they're holding checks because they think they're fake?

Linda, were you provided the "Customs" contact information by the casino? Or did you get it out of the phone book?

I agree that the casino should just cancel the checks and send new ones. heck, why they are messing about with checks at all is a mystery. She deposited and gambled electronically why not get paid electronically.

And why three checks? My paranoid mind looks at that and thinks, "hm. avoids any checks over $10k. That way bank reporting will not be triggered."

That's bad juju too.

Any sane bank would report those immediately, especially if they suspect the depositor (or casino) of structuring, which has far worse legal repercussions than Customs pressing charges for attempted receipt of counterfeit securities.

 

[The Dude]

Bizzare - really bizarre!

What the hell is customs doing trying to find out if a check it good or not? I can see them now "Lookit here, Tony! It's a check from one of 'dem internit casinos I seen on Fox - gotta be fake!"

"Damn terrorist bastards - sending us fake checks!"

Quick question, if Jackpot Factory cancels these checks - how're they going to send the next batch?

 

[The Dude]

...I agree that the casino should just cancel the checks and send new ones. heck, why they are messing about with checks at all is a mystery. She deposited and gambled electronically why not get paid electronically...

Quick side note: I prefer checks for winnings. Casino winnings in Germany are tax-exempt. I turn them in to the tax man with a letter from the casino congratulating me on my winnings

Can't do that with Neteller.

 

[elscrabinda]

Simple fact is that its unbelievable that Linda is having to do any of the leg work herself. It is up to JF to pay her and they are failing in that and don't seem to give two hoots. If Linda is a VIP, how the hell do they treat their normal customers?

It always amazes me that casinos seem perfectly happy to see their reputations dragged through the mud. We're potentially talking about a major casino group issuing fake cheques here! I'm not saying they are but every now and again it would be nice for a casino to do something to reassure players that they're not all crooks

 

[linda7]

Re: Seizure from US Customs

Hi everyone,

Thanks for your input and information. I will try to answer all the questions (with the info that I have received) posted. First of all the package which is a fedex envelope was seized from Fed Ex on June 28th at 12:27 am. I have asked Federal Express if this has ever happened before and they said yes, but would not comment on specific reasons claiming they do not know why. I was given the telephone number to US Customs in Newark, NJ by Federal Express. It was a general 800 number, which lists different departments and you then call that particular department. When I finally was able to find the correct department, I was told that an Officer Watson was handling this situation and to call him/her between 8am and 4pm est. Since it was after hours, I waited til the next morning. When I called, I was told about the checks looking "bogus" and they were contacting the bank to check on their validity. It was at this time that I asked what gave them the right to open my package, and they quoted to me their "terms and conditions". They also said that I would not be receiving this shipment and to contact the sender. All the while, I have been emailing JF, and did not receive one damn response. Apparently Kate Morgan has fallen off the face of the earth as has their operations manager listed here, since he has not responded to my PM. This morning I called Fed Ex again to see if they had an update and all they were able to give me was the seizure number, and a different phone number to call and ask for Ron. Since it is not quite 8am here, I called anyway but there was no answer. I will keep calling until I find this "Ron" and get additional details.

What has me totally pissed off, is the fact that JF is doing NOTHING about this situation at all!!! All they keep saying is, "if we have to cancel the checks (duh! this should have been done already to protect their own ass) it will be quite a while before I get paid. Well, I have plenty of time, and am in no need for the $25,000. However, JF has not done one thing about this problem and I am tired of doing their job for them. Plus if they would respond to my emails I might feel more comfortable about this group. It is THIER checks that are in US Customs hands and I feel it is up to them to do something!!! The bottom line is that they are responsible to pay me and they are stalling completely.

I will post additional info after I speak with Ron at Customs and see what I can do from this end.

 

[quber]

could someone explain to me how a cheque can be fake?

I don't know about the US but in the UK a cheque can be written on anything as long as the relevant info is on it, account number, sort code etc. I have seen a cheque written on the side of a cow and taken to the bank.

it is up to the receiving bank to process the cheque and determine if the funds are available at the issuing bank, but the cheque itself isn't fake.

I could write a cheque for 10,000,000 dollars that would not get processed but the cheque itself isn't fake.

 

[Simmo!]

I have seen a cheque written on the side of a cow and taken to the bank.

I'd love to have seen the cashiers face when they plonked that on the counter . Wonder how long it took to go through the clearing house.

 

[linda7]

Counterfeit!

I just spoke with Officer Watson and she received the info from JF's bank. The three checks were indeed counterfeit. I was not the only player to be issued bad checks, three other players were as well. I called JF and told them what customs said, and they said it is impossible. They then asked for my banking info so they could wire me the money....I said "how about you give me the name of your bank so I can verify whether or not these checks are good"? JF said no. So I am now forced to believe US Customs who verified the authenticity of the checks and found them to be counterfeit, or take the word of JF who will not give me their bank name as I have the check numbers and just want to know if they are good or not. I THINK IT'S TIME FOR THE US TO BAN ONLINE GAMBLING TOTALLY. WE ALL PUT UP OUR MONEY IN GOOD FAITH, AND THEN WE ARE AT THE CASINO'S MERCY OF GETTING PAID SHOULD WE WIN. I NOTICE THAT THERE IS NOT ONE CASINO THAT DOES NOT HAVE A COMPLAINT AGAINST IT. THIS IS NOT A COINCIDENCE.

WELL, AT LEAST I KNOW WHY NO ONE FROM JF HAS INITIATED CONTACT WITH ME OR WITH US CUSTOMS. I HAVE BEEN PLAYING ON THE WRONG SIDE OF THE PLAYING FIELD, I GUESS ITS TIME TO SWITCH SIDES AND LET ALL THESE LOUSY THIEVES GET REAL JOBS INSTEAD OF FEASTING OFF PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IN THEM. IMO, EVERY DAMN ONLINE CASINO SUCKS!

 

[The Dude]

I just spoke with Officer Watson and she received the info from JF's bank. The three checks were indeed counterfeit. I was not the only player to be issued bad checks, three other players were as well. I called JF and told them what customs said, and they said it is impossible. They then asked for my banking info so they could wire me the money....I said "how about you give me the name of your bank so I can verify whether or not these checks are good"? JF said no. So I am now forced to believe US Customs who verified the authenticity of the checks and found them to be counterfeit, or take the word of JF who will not give me their bank name as I have the check numbers and just want to know if they are good or not. I THINK IT'S TIME FOR THE US TO BAN ONLINE GAMBLING TOTALLY. WE ALL PUT UP OUR MONEY IN GOOD FAITH, AND THEN WE ARE AT THE CASINO'S MERCY OF GETTING PAID SHOULD WE WIN. I NOTICE THAT THERE IS NOT ONE CASINO THAT DOES NOT HAVE A COMPLAINT AGAINST IT. THIS IS NOT A COINCIDENCE.

WELL, AT LEAST I KNOW WHY NO ONE FROM JF HAS INITIATED CONTACT WITH ME OR WITH US CUSTOMS. I HAVE BEEN PLAYING ON THE WRONG SIDE OF THE PLAYING FIELD, I GUESS ITS TIME TO SWITCH SIDES AND LET ALL THESE LOUSY THIEVES GET REAL JOBS INSTEAD OF FEASTING OFF PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IN THEM. IMO, EVERY DAMN ONLINE CASINO SUCKS!

This is truly strange. How did the customs agent know that three other players received bad checks? Did these players report this to customs (?) or did customs intercept these checks as well.

I'm awaiting word from Jackpot Factory to give us an explanation on this whole situation.

 

[thelawnet]

I just spoke with Officer Watson and she received the info from JF's bank. The three checks were indeed counterfeit. I was not the only player to be issued bad checks, three other players were as well. I called JF and told them what customs said, and they said it is impossible. They then asked for my banking info so they could wire me the money....I said "how about you give me the name of your bank so I can verify whether or not these checks are good"? JF said no. So I am now forced to believe US Customs who verified the authenticity of the checks and found them to be counterfeit, or take the word of JF who will not give me their bank name as I have the check numbers and just want to know if they are good or not. I THINK IT'S TIME FOR THE US TO BAN ONLINE GAMBLING TOTALLY. WE ALL PUT UP OUR MONEY IN GOOD FAITH, AND THEN WE ARE AT THE CASINO'S MERCY OF GETTING PAID SHOULD WE WIN. I NOTICE THAT THERE IS NOT ONE CASINO THAT DOES NOT HAVE A COMPLAINT AGAINST IT. THIS IS NOT A COINCIDENCE.

WELL, AT LEAST I KNOW WHY NO ONE FROM JF HAS INITIATED CONTACT WITH ME OR WITH US CUSTOMS. I HAVE BEEN PLAYING ON THE WRONG SIDE OF THE PLAYING FIELD, I GUESS ITS TIME TO SWITCH SIDES AND LET ALL THESE LOUSY THIEVES GET REAL JOBS INSTEAD OF FEASTING OFF PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IN THEM. IMO, EVERY DAMN ONLINE CASINO SUCKS!

i call jackass customs agent on that one.... It stretches credulity that they would send a fake check, because you would find out in about 2 weeks it was fake, and they would like a crooked cheating group. Which I don't believe they are.

So I think this is a case of the dumb arm of the law. Failing that maybe some crook switching checks.

 

[linda7]

Meister:

Bryan, I honestly do not know how Customs knew of the other three players and it did not dawn on me to ask the Officer. I am very sad over this entire situation. If JF would have at least given me their bank name so I could verify the checks myself, my faith in them would not be in question. How can I ever trust them, or any other group, again? I was going to write to you and ask what you think of all this. If you receive a response from Jackpot Factory, would you mind letting me know the truth? I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks for all that you do Bryan.

 

[spearmaster]

JF is not likely to be passing bad checks - but there has been one instance in the past, 4-5 years ago, where a number of gambling operations actually had a series of checks bounced because a bank was no longer recognized by by the US banking system.

Your customs agent is still bullshitting you. JF may also be using more than one bank so it isn't necessarily a simple matter for them to tell you which bank it could be - again not that unusual.

For JF to be doing nothing would also be folly, as they know full well that inaction will cause them to lose credibility. I suspect they are as confused as you are.

 

[paul02085]

If i was JF i would jump on this real fast!

 

[linda7]

Reply to Spearmaster:

Spear, I would like to believe that Customs is lying to me. However, since JF has done absolutely nothing all week about this issue, has me very confused.
Do you know that they have not even bothered to cancel the checks that I am never going to receive? I have my withdrawal statement from them, and on it are the check numbers and amount of each check, the only thing is that it does not have the bank's name. Why would they be so leary to give me the name of thier bank so I can find out who is really bullshitting me? As for Kate Morgan, she writes to you if you win anything, but this week she seems to have disappeared! I think JF has alot to answer for. US Customs has nothing to gain by lying to me......Jackpot Factory has everything at stake!

 

[pijak]

err, US customs has nothing to gain by lying to you? It looks like they've already gained exactly what they wanted: you're not hassling them any more. Instead you're taking it out on a company who sent you a cheque just to have your unnecessarily paranoid customs department confiscate it for absolutely no good reason.

Why should they even care if it's a false cheque? It's *just* possible that JF's bank issued an erroneous cheque, but that's your problem not US custom's. I'd be getting onto the press if this happened to me, are you really going to just accept that it was in the interests of your security to open your private mail and steal your property? You seem to have a bit too much trust in US officialdom even though they've already shown no respect for your civil liberties and property.

Anyway I certainly don't mean to flame you, and JF should perhaps be doing more to set your mind at rest, but haven't they already offered to wire the money to you? I think you're complaining about the wrong people...

 

[linda7]

To pijak:

When I was first told that US Customs held my package I was furious. When I found out that they knew there were checks inside I exploded. I demanded answers, asked them what gave them the right, etc. Apparently, US Customs can do whatever they feel is the right thing to do. If they suspect any fraudulent activity, they can and do open the package and inspect it.

I just spoke with Rinna at Jackpot Factory. JF finally called Officer Watson at the US Customs Department and they were told that their checks are counterfeit. JF did not argue the point. After 5 days they finally cancelled the checks, and upon verification of cancellation will issue new checks to me, but they will be sent from a different bank (a US one) and to a different address that I supplied to them. As far as them wiring the money to me, why should I trust them with my banking info, when they have done nothing to prove to me that they did not try to get away with sending me counterfeit checks? If they do not trust me with the name of the bank they issued these counterfeit checks from, do you think I should trust them? Perhaps you would, but I did not. As far as I am concerned, the innaction all week on the part of JF just made them look guiltier and guiltier. As for me hassling US Customs, I rode their ass like Zorro all week until they received exact confirmation that the checks were counterfeit. At that point, JF lost the fight in my eyes. Customs at least took action, while JF did NOTHING!

I will now wait and see if I ever receive the checks, then I will call the bank to verify their authenticity and if there are enough funds to cover them before I deposit them. I am grateful to the US Customs Department for what they did. Had they not seized the checks, I would have cashed counterfeit checks, hopefully not been arrested, and would have owed my bank $25,000. Lastly, if I chose to go to the press that would be no problem as my sister works for the Associated Press. But why would I want to do that? As I stated above, US Customs did me a favor and saved my ass.

 

[pijak]

...only if they are in fact telling the truth in that the cheques are conterfeit, you can't prove that either way pf course and have to take their word for it until they send you the evidence or JF confirm that they send out fake cheques. Neither of these is going to happen, so I'll believe JF and you can believe customs.

IMO Spearmaster's made a good point, if the cheque's weren't drawn from a US bank and weren't based on a US system they could easily check into that might have been enough to flag them as potentially false.

I know you've decided which side to come down on, but I'd be hugely surprised if there was anything wrong with the cheques and absolutely furious with the department that opened my mail and confiscated the evidence. Just because they legally *can* open your mail doesn't mean that they should: that's why I'd be making the issue public.

Anyway each to their own, I'm glad you're getting your money and that you weren't relying on it in a hurry, and I hope we get some more information soon.

 

[GrandMaster]

I could write a cheque for 10,000,000 dollars that would not get processed but the cheque itself isn't fake.

Issuing a cheque knowing that there won't be sufficient funds in your account is a criminal offence.

 

[GrandMaster]

Linda, something is still wrong.

Ask them for the specific reference to the Customs code which says that they can open your international mail - and either send that code to you by email, or a link to the specific statute online which says that they can do so - and if they can't, inform them that you will be calling your lawyers.

Customs can do pretty much anything they like. They can search you and your luggage without a warrant or any suspicion of that you are doing anything illegal.

I am still puzzled how US Customs came to intercept these cheques. If they say that they also intercepted cheques sent to other players, then it clearly was not an accident. My feeling was that it was part of a crackdown on online gambling, they found out that the casinos were sending cheques from a particular address in Canada and they started looking out for shipments from that address. I still don't understand why they went to all the trouble of verifying the cheques, I assume that cheques were not "obviously" fake, like drawn on Citybank instead of Citibank.

Jackpot Factory'd better have a very good explanation for this story.

 

[spearmaster]

Customs is not the police - they cannot arrest you - their job is to check for contraband or dutiable items.

Packages may be reasonably searched. Documents containing private communications do not fall in this category unless there is reasonable evidence of counterfeit government securities. Checks are not government securities.

I've said about all I can say up to this point - I can't defend the procedure JF are following any more than this - so now either they can defend themselves or else accept the consequences themselves - but I think you are still being too hard on them, Linda. I think the blame has wrongly been laid entirely at their feet.

 

[santo]

Issuing a cheque knowing that there won't be sufficient funds in your account is a criminal offence.

Maybe in America it is... Here it'd just land you with a 20 fee from your bank.

 

[jetset]

These are very serious allegations that U.S. Customs are making - allegations that could result in harm to business.

I therefore think that Jackpot Factory should issue a public statement on the issue or at the very least brief Linda as the customer on what the hell is going on here.

I find it difficult to believe that a well established and successful group like JF would be issuing counterfeit cheques, but if they don't step in and defend themselves with a truthful statement no-one else has the knowledge or is in a position to do it for them.

 

[MrWolf]

Linda,
I can appreciate your frustration in all this since all you simply want is to be paid.

I've played at Wildjacks, part of Jackpot Factory off and on for around three or four years and never had a problem being paid the money I was owed. Also, Proc Cyber Services handles their transactions, and I've had literally hundreds of cashins paid by them, including many ACH payments which took just a few days to hit my bank account. I find it strange then that customs are alleging the cheques are fake.

If you're worried about handing over bank details for an ACH payment, which may be an easier way of getting your money, let me assure you I've never experienced a problem when I've withdrawn with this method. Another speddy alternative may be to request a Neteller withdrawal. Good luck.

 

[greedygirl]

I can say with some certainty that the reason JF was unable to tell you which bank the cheque was issued on, is simply just that--they are unable to do so, without some difficulty, and a bit of time to look into things. Proc-Cyber would have issued the cheques and posted the date the cheques were issued and the cheque numbers to JF's accounting, without further information.

JF uses Proc-Cyber to handle their transactions. Proc-Cyber uses MANY different banks in MANY different countries. On two occasions, I've been issued cheques via Proc-Cyber which were written on an account originating in Beirut and these cheques were refused by my bank (Citibank)--rather than call attention to this matter with my bank, I simply explained the situation with the casino and had the cheques cancelled and new cheques issued, drawn on a more U.S.-friendly bank account.

Another issue I once had was because the cheque was dated in the European manner--day/month/year. My bank refused the cheque, as it was dated: 2/9/04 and it was already September in the U.S.--according to law (and the bank manager moron), the cheque had expired.

All-in-all, I find it difficult to believe that JF (and Proc-Cyber, in particular) would be involved in any sort of counterfeiting or passing of bad cheques. I just can't wrap my head around this. What I do believe happened is that for whatever reason (it could be something as simple as a torn FedEx package or your package was the one in a thousand to be checked) your package caught scrutiny. How this could be JF's fault is beyond me.

I agree, JF needs to re-issue the funds, but beyond that, this is really about U.S. Customs and not JF.

 

[GrandMaster]

Maybe in America it is... Here it'd just land you with a 20 fee from your bank.

That's a contractual matter between your bank. Writing a bad cheque is not a named offence but it would come under obtaining property, services or pecuniary advantage by deception. Normally it is hard to prove beyond reasonable doubt that you had the intention of bouncing cheque, you could always claim to be somewhat incompetent at running a bank account. The most important remedy to the payee is a civil one, he can simply sue on the cheque itself with almost no defence.

 

[linda7]

Why I can't trust JF?

Hi everyone,

I have read all of your posts, and know that most of you disagree with my choice of not believing Jacpot Factory. Therefore, let me tell you everything about the relationship that I had with this group and where it stands now. I always thought JF was, by far, one of the best groups on the net. Whenever, I had a question I would just call the VIP Dept. and would chat with the reps and get the answer to my query. I guess you could say we had a very good relationship. When I was first notified that US Customs had seized the checks, I immediately called JF expecting some kind of help. However, supervisors were never available, no one would give me a direct answer, when I was given info it would be a lie, etc. I asked them to contact Kate Morgan (Kate has always responded to me when I needed her) but now Kate became unavailable. The Reps kept telling me we are sending your info to Management and are waiting for an update. On another call, I would be told we have sent everything to finance and are waiting for an update. It was a complete run around, and JF NEVER responded to one email, and I had to initiate all the phone calls. For five days, they did absolutely NOTHING. I even PM'd their operations manager that is listed here and have not heard one word! Keep in mind, that it is their asses on the fire, not mine. They were accused of sending out counterfeit checks and they did not care nor did they cancel the checks! Yesterday, they finally spoke to Customs and Customs did tell them that the checks were counterfeit. This was verified to me by both Customs and Jackpot Factory. AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED, THESE SOB'S WERE PAYING ME WITH FAKE CHECKS. Since finding out this info yesterday, I must have spoken to VIP atleast 10 times and all they say is "Linda we are very sorry this happened to you, we will issue new checks (drawn on a US Bank) once we receive confirmation that the other checks were cancelled". Not once have they denied that the checks were not fake!

All week, JF has been asking for my banking info so they could send me an ACH. I refused to supply this info, since I do not and cannot trust them.
To force my hand, the Rep told me that Management cannot send my checks to a different address other than my own (they would be breaking the law, ie, money laundering, etc,)! I guess counterfeit checks are not illegal to them. When the rep told me this I literally had to laugh....I cannot believe all the bullshit I have heard this week. JF also swears that they have answered all my emails, but I just did not receive them. I asked them what email addy did they answer me from and they said "[email protected]". This is the exact same address that I received an email from yesterday telling about JFs weekend promos...so I now know they are lying about responding to my emails. Since I am basically screwed regarding the sending of checks, I was forced to give them one of my bank's info for the ACH. I also set up a yahoo email account just for JF to send me emails....we shall see if they ever do.

So that's the whole story folks. I had been a loyal player of Jackpot Factory's for the last 4 years. Anything I ever needed was made available to me at all times. It is not often you get a sucker to feed you 5k per week. However, since this Customs crap I cannot even get an email telling me to go to hell, nevermind, receive any help. Who would you believe?

 

[wolfie_Cr]

My two cents from an operators point of view

The simple reason why Jackpot Factory does not want to give everyone the bank they use is because most banks do not like to KNOWINGLY conduct business with egaming companies as they are an obvious grey area. The grey is turning more into black every day as the United States keeps applying pressure and threatens every bank to cut them off from doing business in the US if they insist in having ties with these egaming "terrorists".

Every (foreign) bank that wants to do business in the US needs what is called a "correspondent bank" , if I have bank "ABC" doing business in the US and I get Wachovia to be my correspondent over there and Wachovia discovers that I process checks for Jackpot Factory for example.......they can shut me down from doing business in the US and the bank will lose a bunch of business and Jackpot Factory will get its account shutdown, this is just a hypothetical as I don't even know where Jackpot Factory operates

The above situation is quite common though in places like Belize, Costa Rica and Antigua. Its not easy to find banks that are "egaming" friendly as there are RISKS involved.

That is the plain and simple reason why "I" would deny provide such information. Checks that can be cashed in the US are typically drawn on an American Bank through their international department (that links bank in offshore country to corrrespondent bank)

Now......since apparently the issue is why Jackpot Factory didnt give the info

I have ANOTHER equally reasonable demand of information

I want to see a statement where customs provides a written statement and documentation showing that such checks ARE fake and that this is not something they are producing under the "Patriot Act" or some other bologne. At that point of course you can see what bank issued them as part of the evidence I would like is photocopies of MY checks that were sized. I would like you to ask this to them......and see if they get any more responsive than Jackpot Factory.

Another thing is ........that most people don't have any idea what a foreign currency bill looks like, let alone what a foreign check looks like, the first time I saw an American Check it LOOKED completely fake to me (hell you can even put your dog picture every check of your checkbook!). THAT looks fake. Cashier checks from foreign banks LOOK fake to Americans and it is simply out of lack of knowledge. Typically they are bigger than the standard check etc and most don't have the account holder name, they simply say something like "Bank of America, International Department" it doesnt say WHO the account belongs to because once again its an international bank to offshore bank account. Sort of "bank of belize" doing business under account 123 of bank of america

3 years ago I had a customer who told me that the cashier check I sent could not be deposited because "it lacked a magnetic stripe" or something along those lines. I told her to go bank to the bank go to a different teller and deposit it and come back 3 days later. That worked so...........bank workers (or custom workers for that matter) are not Sherlock Holmes when it comes to detecting fake checks

 

[slotchik]

Why are you having a CHECK sent?? Open up a NEW bank account and do an ACH...then close that account..Isnt that simple???

I didnt know anyone still requested checks. I dont trust them.

According to the US Customs "terms and conditions regarding International Mail" they have the right to scan it, open it and decide whether or not to process the shipment. It is at their sole discretion, and there is nothing no one can do. They did want to speak to JP Factory, and I gave JP the phone number yesterday, but they are too busy to make the call. Lastly, I just spoke with Eric from VIP at JP Factory and this is not the first time their checks have had their authenticity questioned. Personally, I do not think that JP's checks are illegitimate. I just think they could have put a stop payment on them, and issued me new ones. However, this must be the week that they sit on their hands as they have done nothing at all. I even PM'd their operations manager, he/she has not responded either.

 

[slotchik]

Issuing a cheque knowing that there won't be sufficient funds in your account is a criminal offence.

people bounce checks every day......but I hear what you're sayin

 

[unicorn40]

Why are you having a CHECK sent?? Open up a NEW bank account and do an ACH...then close that account..Isnt that simple???

It's not all that simple... you need a routing number that is on your checks, and the bank issued checks you get when you open the account don't have one in your name. You wait 2 weeks to get the ones in your name.

And I'm sure a bank would frown on people opening accounts, having one very large transaction, and then closing the account.

Banks do background checks on people, checking their credit history, and previous accounts, usually to see if they will allow overdraft protection on your account, and to see if you've passed bad checks in the past.

 

[linda7]

JF Update

Wolfie_Cr: I understand and agree completely with what you posted. Which is why when Customs said the checks were "bogus" (that's the word used at first) I told them that I had done business with this company before and was certain that they were wrong. That is why it took from Monday to Friday for Customs to be sure. Apparently they faxed a copy of the checks to the bank and the bank said "these checks are counterfeit". They not only told me, but they told JF as well.

Slotchik: I did give them a bank name and number to send an ACH. It is an account that I rarely, if ever, use so I am not worried. My main bank that I deal with, JF could never get that info. I simply do not trust them to have access to my main accounts.

I would have a complete different outlook on this issue, if only someone from Jackpot Factory would have replied to my emails or simply called me. As I stated above, prior to this, anyone that I needed to speak with was always reachable....now I am lucky if I get a Rep to talk to me for two minutes. I have heard the phrase "I don't know", more times this week than I have in a lifetime. I know Bryan is also waiting for an explanation, and so far nothing.

 

[spearmaster]

Everyone, including Linda, seems to be missing the point.

Greedygirl has already pointed out that payments are handled by Proc Cyber, which also handle payments for most of the larger Microgaming operations. Jackpot Factory is just one of these operations.

Jackpot Factory representatives probably do not know what is going on with payments and can't be expected to reply immediately with answers. I will, however, assume that they haven't been giving Linda any satisfaction, which can be very frustrating - and Jackpot Factory's strengths do NOT include public relations and customer service. They are, however, probably the most fair and least problematic of the large operations.

Basically, what it amounts to is this - the problem is entirely out of Jackpot Factory's hands once the payment has been issued - the problem now lies with Proc Cyber, and Jackpot Factory are unfairly being blamed for something they have no control over - and yet expected to provide immediate answers for something they have no knowledge of. When they say "I don't know", they really mean it - as stupid as that sounds, it's unfortunately true.

Customs is still full of shit. But if you want to point the finger at the other party, point to Proc Cyber, not Jackpot Factory. Call Proc Cyber at their offices and get them to sort it out and you might have better luck.

 

[Jackpot Factory]

Hi all,

First of all, please accept my apologies for not replying - I have been out of contact for the last three days.

We are currently trying to find out what happened here. We have never had checks stopped by customs, in the US or anywhere else, and we are having a hard time getting any answers out of them. Of course, the checks were not faked or fraudulent, and we do not know why customs has decided that they are, as we have sent checks for far larger amounts in the past, with no problems.

In any case, I can assure both Linda7 and everyone else that we are taking this very seriously, and will continue trying to get answers out of Customs to ensure that no players experience this problem in the future. In regards to this specific case, Linda7 - I have PM'd you regarding the best way to get your money to you as fast as possible.

Regards,

JF

 

[linda7]

REPLY TO SPEARMASTER:

Listed Below is the withdrawal statement from Wild Jack's casino, including reference numbers of each check sent to me in one package. Spear, are you trying to tell me that they could not have used a small portion of their brain and worked it out with Proc Cyber? I am the only one doing anything....they are sitting on their asses and waiting for me to get more information. I am done. I gave them my banking info, and will wait for my ACH. As I stated in every damn online casino sucks. By the way, if you have proc cybers phone number would you be kind enough to furnish it? I have no problem confronting them on this issue. HOWEVER, THERE IS STILL NO EXCUSE FOR JF NOT REPLYING TO MY EMAILS OR EVEN MAKING AN EFFORT TO EASE MY MIND IN SOME WAY. ALL THE BIG SHOTS ARE HIDING BEHIND THE REPS. WHICH MAKES ALL OF THEM NOTHING SHORT OF COWARDS.

Dear Linda Anders-Lieber

Please find included your Withdrawal Statement for 26 Jun 2005 to 27 Jun 2005.


Your Withdrawal Statement
Casino: Wild Jacks Casino
Casino Account No: wjrxxxxxxxxxx
Withdrawal ID: (Finalised) XXXXX
Withdrawal Amount: 30,000.00 Withdrawal Request Date: 26 Jun 2005

Payment Method Account Reference Amount Paid Date Paid
Credit against cash-in (8 : Token Refund) 5,000.00 27 Jun 2005 (this means that I reversed 5000 back into my account)

Check Payout Please see Address details below 428316 (Casino Ref.) 10,000.00 26 Jun 2005

Check Payout Please see Address details below 428317 (Casino Ref.) 10,000.00 26 Jun 2005

Check Payout Please see Address details below 428318 (Casino Ref.) 5,000.00 27 Jun 2005
Total Paid: 30,000.00 US Dollar


Cheque Address:
xxxx xxxxxx x
Brooklyn
NY-New York
United States
11235


The time your check takes to reach you is dependant on the method of delivery you chose:
- Check by regular mail: 14 21 days.
- Check by courier service: 3 5 days.
- Check by speed mail: 6 9 days.


Regards
Sheila Simms
Financial Director
Wild Jack Casino
A Jackpot Factory Casino
Our TOLL FREE numbers are:
USA: 1-866-251-2235
UK: 0-800 917-4616
Canada: 1-888-328-3619

 

[linda7]

Reply to Jackpot Factory:

Jackpot Factory, how nice to finally hear from you. I am going to assume that you have spoken to Officer Watson at US Customs and she told you that the bank on which the checks were drawn are counterfeit. Whether or not this is true, I will never know. However, what I do know is this....it has taken you six days to reply to my extensive amount of emails, which was way beyond frustrating! Also, since Customs assured me that I would never receive this package (I have told this to your reps over and over again), it finally dawned on your financial department yesterday to cancel the checks. Your reps said they replied to my emails, but I never received one response. So I opened a yahoo email account just for JF. They insisted on my banking info, so I gave them the info which I really did not want to do.
However, my hand was forced since they said this is the only way for me to get paid. I am off to go and read your PM. I am glad you took the time to respond and cannot wait for this problem to go away. Lastly, I am sure you will understand that I will no longer play at any of your casinos.

Have a great day!