Jackpot Factory & US Customs

[linda7]

Meister:

Bryan, I honestly do not know how Customs knew of the other three players and it did not dawn on me to ask the Officer. I am very sad over this entire situation. If JF would have at least given me their bank name so I could verify the checks myself, my faith in them would not be in question. How can I ever trust them, or any other group, again? I was going to write to you and ask what you think of all this. If you receive a response from Jackpot Factory, would you mind letting me know the truth? I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks for all that you do Bryan.

 

[spearmaster]

JF is not likely to be passing bad checks - but there has been one instance in the past, 4-5 years ago, where a number of gambling operations actually had a series of checks bounced because a bank was no longer recognized by by the US banking system.

Your customs agent is still bullshitting you. JF may also be using more than one bank so it isn't necessarily a simple matter for them to tell you which bank it could be - again not that unusual.

For JF to be doing nothing would also be folly, as they know full well that inaction will cause them to lose credibility. I suspect they are as confused as you are.

 

[paul02085]

If i was JF i would jump on this real fast!

 

[linda7]

Reply to Spearmaster:

Spear, I would like to believe that Customs is lying to me. However, since JF has done absolutely nothing all week about this issue, has me very confused.
Do you know that they have not even bothered to cancel the checks that I am never going to receive? I have my withdrawal statement from them, and on it are the check numbers and amount of each check, the only thing is that it does not have the bank's name. Why would they be so leary to give me the name of thier bank so I can find out who is really bullshitting me? As for Kate Morgan, she writes to you if you win anything, but this week she seems to have disappeared! I think JF has alot to answer for. US Customs has nothing to gain by lying to me......Jackpot Factory has everything at stake!

 

[pijak]

err, US customs has nothing to gain by lying to you? It looks like they've already gained exactly what they wanted: you're not hassling them any more. Instead you're taking it out on a company who sent you a cheque just to have your unnecessarily paranoid customs department confiscate it for absolutely no good reason.

Why should they even care if it's a false cheque? It's *just* possible that JF's bank issued an erroneous cheque, but that's your problem not US custom's. I'd be getting onto the press if this happened to me, are you really going to just accept that it was in the interests of your security to open your private mail and steal your property? You seem to have a bit too much trust in US officialdom even though they've already shown no respect for your civil liberties and property.

Anyway I certainly don't mean to flame you, and JF should perhaps be doing more to set your mind at rest, but haven't they already offered to wire the money to you? I think you're complaining about the wrong people...

 

[linda7]

To pijak:

When I was first told that US Customs held my package I was furious. When I found out that they knew there were checks inside I exploded. I demanded answers, asked them what gave them the right, etc. Apparently, US Customs can do whatever they feel is the right thing to do. If they suspect any fraudulent activity, they can and do open the package and inspect it.

I just spoke with Rinna at Jackpot Factory. JF finally called Officer Watson at the US Customs Department and they were told that their checks are counterfeit. JF did not argue the point. After 5 days they finally cancelled the checks, and upon verification of cancellation will issue new checks to me, but they will be sent from a different bank (a US one) and to a different address that I supplied to them. As far as them wiring the money to me, why should I trust them with my banking info, when they have done nothing to prove to me that they did not try to get away with sending me counterfeit checks? If they do not trust me with the name of the bank they issued these counterfeit checks from, do you think I should trust them? Perhaps you would, but I did not. As far as I am concerned, the innaction all week on the part of JF just made them look guiltier and guiltier. As for me hassling US Customs, I rode their ass like Zorro all week until they received exact confirmation that the checks were counterfeit. At that point, JF lost the fight in my eyes. Customs at least took action, while JF did NOTHING!

I will now wait and see if I ever receive the checks, then I will call the bank to verify their authenticity and if there are enough funds to cover them before I deposit them. I am grateful to the US Customs Department for what they did. Had they not seized the checks, I would have cashed counterfeit checks, hopefully not been arrested, and would have owed my bank $25,000. Lastly, if I chose to go to the press that would be no problem as my sister works for the Associated Press. But why would I want to do that? As I stated above, US Customs did me a favor and saved my ass.

 

[pijak]

...only if they are in fact telling the truth in that the cheques are conterfeit, you can't prove that either way pf course and have to take their word for it until they send you the evidence or JF confirm that they send out fake cheques. Neither of these is going to happen, so I'll believe JF and you can believe customs.

IMO Spearmaster's made a good point, if the cheque's weren't drawn from a US bank and weren't based on a US system they could easily check into that might have been enough to flag them as potentially false.

I know you've decided which side to come down on, but I'd be hugely surprised if there was anything wrong with the cheques and absolutely furious with the department that opened my mail and confiscated the evidence. Just because they legally *can* open your mail doesn't mean that they should: that's why I'd be making the issue public.

Anyway each to their own, I'm glad you're getting your money and that you weren't relying on it in a hurry, and I hope we get some more information soon.

 

[GrandMaster]

I could write a cheque for 10,000,000 dollars that would not get processed but the cheque itself isn't fake.

Issuing a cheque knowing that there won't be sufficient funds in your account is a criminal offence.

 

[GrandMaster]

Linda, something is still wrong.

Ask them for the specific reference to the Customs code which says that they can open your international mail - and either send that code to you by email, or a link to the specific statute online which says that they can do so - and if they can't, inform them that you will be calling your lawyers.

Customs can do pretty much anything they like. They can search you and your luggage without a warrant or any suspicion of that you are doing anything illegal.

I am still puzzled how US Customs came to intercept these cheques. If they say that they also intercepted cheques sent to other players, then it clearly was not an accident. My feeling was that it was part of a crackdown on online gambling, they found out that the casinos were sending cheques from a particular address in Canada and they started looking out for shipments from that address. I still don't understand why they went to all the trouble of verifying the cheques, I assume that cheques were not "obviously" fake, like drawn on Citybank instead of Citibank.

Jackpot Factory'd better have a very good explanation for this story.

 

[spearmaster]

Customs is not the police - they cannot arrest you - their job is to check for contraband or dutiable items.

Packages may be reasonably searched. Documents containing private communications do not fall in this category unless there is reasonable evidence of counterfeit government securities. Checks are not government securities.

I've said about all I can say up to this point - I can't defend the procedure JF are following any more than this - so now either they can defend themselves or else accept the consequences themselves - but I think you are still being too hard on them, Linda. I think the blame has wrongly been laid entirely at their feet.

 

[santo]

Issuing a cheque knowing that there won't be sufficient funds in your account is a criminal offence.

Maybe in America it is... Here it'd just land you with a 20 fee from your bank.

 

[jetset]

These are very serious allegations that U.S. Customs are making - allegations that could result in harm to business.

I therefore think that Jackpot Factory should issue a public statement on the issue or at the very least brief Linda as the customer on what the hell is going on here.

I find it difficult to believe that a well established and successful group like JF would be issuing counterfeit cheques, but if they don't step in and defend themselves with a truthful statement no-one else has the knowledge or is in a position to do it for them.

 

[MrWolf]

Linda,
I can appreciate your frustration in all this since all you simply want is to be paid.

I've played at Wildjacks, part of Jackpot Factory off and on for around three or four years and never had a problem being paid the money I was owed. Also, Proc Cyber Services handles their transactions, and I've had literally hundreds of cashins paid by them, including many ACH payments which took just a few days to hit my bank account. I find it strange then that customs are alleging the cheques are fake.

If you're worried about handing over bank details for an ACH payment, which may be an easier way of getting your money, let me assure you I've never experienced a problem when I've withdrawn with this method. Another speddy alternative may be to request a Neteller withdrawal. Good luck.

 

[greedygirl]

I can say with some certainty that the reason JF was unable to tell you which bank the cheque was issued on, is simply just that--they are unable to do so, without some difficulty, and a bit of time to look into things. Proc-Cyber would have issued the cheques and posted the date the cheques were issued and the cheque numbers to JF's accounting, without further information.

JF uses Proc-Cyber to handle their transactions. Proc-Cyber uses MANY different banks in MANY different countries. On two occasions, I've been issued cheques via Proc-Cyber which were written on an account originating in Beirut and these cheques were refused by my bank (Citibank)--rather than call attention to this matter with my bank, I simply explained the situation with the casino and had the cheques cancelled and new cheques issued, drawn on a more U.S.-friendly bank account.

Another issue I once had was because the cheque was dated in the European manner--day/month/year. My bank refused the cheque, as it was dated: 2/9/04 and it was already September in the U.S.--according to law (and the bank manager moron), the cheque had expired.

All-in-all, I find it difficult to believe that JF (and Proc-Cyber, in particular) would be involved in any sort of counterfeiting or passing of bad cheques. I just can't wrap my head around this. What I do believe happened is that for whatever reason (it could be something as simple as a torn FedEx package or your package was the one in a thousand to be checked) your package caught scrutiny. How this could be JF's fault is beyond me.

I agree, JF needs to re-issue the funds, but beyond that, this is really about U.S. Customs and not JF.

 

[GrandMaster]

Maybe in America it is... Here it'd just land you with a 20 fee from your bank.

That's a contractual matter between your bank. Writing a bad cheque is not a named offence but it would come under obtaining property, services or pecuniary advantage by deception. Normally it is hard to prove beyond reasonable doubt that you had the intention of bouncing cheque, you could always claim to be somewhat incompetent at running a bank account. The most important remedy to the payee is a civil one, he can simply sue on the cheque itself with almost no defence.

 

[linda7]

Why I can't trust JF?

Hi everyone,

I have read all of your posts, and know that most of you disagree with my choice of not believing Jacpot Factory. Therefore, let me tell you everything about the relationship that I had with this group and where it stands now. I always thought JF was, by far, one of the best groups on the net. Whenever, I had a question I would just call the VIP Dept. and would chat with the reps and get the answer to my query. I guess you could say we had a very good relationship. When I was first notified that US Customs had seized the checks, I immediately called JF expecting some kind of help. However, supervisors were never available, no one would give me a direct answer, when I was given info it would be a lie, etc. I asked them to contact Kate Morgan (Kate has always responded to me when I needed her) but now Kate became unavailable. The Reps kept telling me we are sending your info to Management and are waiting for an update. On another call, I would be told we have sent everything to finance and are waiting for an update. It was a complete run around, and JF NEVER responded to one email, and I had to initiate all the phone calls. For five days, they did absolutely NOTHING. I even PM'd their operations manager that is listed here and have not heard one word! Keep in mind, that it is their asses on the fire, not mine. They were accused of sending out counterfeit checks and they did not care nor did they cancel the checks! Yesterday, they finally spoke to Customs and Customs did tell them that the checks were counterfeit. This was verified to me by both Customs and Jackpot Factory. AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED, THESE SOB'S WERE PAYING ME WITH FAKE CHECKS. Since finding out this info yesterday, I must have spoken to VIP atleast 10 times and all they say is "Linda we are very sorry this happened to you, we will issue new checks (drawn on a US Bank) once we receive confirmation that the other checks were cancelled". Not once have they denied that the checks were not fake!

All week, JF has been asking for my banking info so they could send me an ACH. I refused to supply this info, since I do not and cannot trust them.
To force my hand, the Rep told me that Management cannot send my checks to a different address other than my own (they would be breaking the law, ie, money laundering, etc,)! I guess counterfeit checks are not illegal to them. When the rep told me this I literally had to laugh....I cannot believe all the bullshit I have heard this week. JF also swears that they have answered all my emails, but I just did not receive them. I asked them what email addy did they answer me from and they said "vipsupport@jackpotfactory.com". This is the exact same address that I received an email from yesterday telling about JFs weekend promos...so I now know they are lying about responding to my emails. Since I am basically screwed regarding the sending of checks, I was forced to give them one of my bank's info for the ACH. I also set up a yahoo email account just for JF to send me emails....we shall see if they ever do.

So that's the whole story folks. I had been a loyal player of Jackpot Factory's for the last 4 years. Anything I ever needed was made available to me at all times. It is not often you get a sucker to feed you 5k per week. However, since this Customs crap I cannot even get an email telling me to go to hell, nevermind, receive any help. Who would you believe?

 

[wolfie_Cr]

My two cents from an operators point of view

The simple reason why Jackpot Factory does not want to give everyone the bank they use is because most banks do not like to KNOWINGLY conduct business with egaming companies as they are an obvious grey area. The grey is turning more into black every day as the United States keeps applying pressure and threatens every bank to cut them off from doing business in the US if they insist in having ties with these egaming "terrorists".

Every (foreign) bank that wants to do business in the US needs what is called a "correspondent bank" , if I have bank "ABC" doing business in the US and I get Wachovia to be my correspondent over there and Wachovia discovers that I process checks for Jackpot Factory for example.......they can shut me down from doing business in the US and the bank will lose a bunch of business and Jackpot Factory will get its account shutdown, this is just a hypothetical as I don't even know where Jackpot Factory operates

The above situation is quite common though in places like Belize, Costa Rica and Antigua. Its not easy to find banks that are "egaming" friendly as there are RISKS involved.

That is the plain and simple reason why "I" would deny provide such information. Checks that can be cashed in the US are typically drawn on an American Bank through their international department (that links bank in offshore country to corrrespondent bank)

Now......since apparently the issue is why Jackpot Factory didnt give the info

I have ANOTHER equally reasonable demand of information

I want to see a statement where customs provides a written statement and documentation showing that such checks ARE fake and that this is not something they are producing under the "Patriot Act" or some other bologne. At that point of course you can see what bank issued them as part of the evidence I would like is photocopies of MY checks that were sized. I would like you to ask this to them......and see if they get any more responsive than Jackpot Factory.

Another thing is ........that most people don't have any idea what a foreign currency bill looks like, let alone what a foreign check looks like, the first time I saw an American Check it LOOKED completely fake to me (hell you can even put your dog picture every check of your checkbook!). THAT looks fake. Cashier checks from foreign banks LOOK fake to Americans and it is simply out of lack of knowledge. Typically they are bigger than the standard check etc and most don't have the account holder name, they simply say something like "Bank of America, International Department" it doesnt say WHO the account belongs to because once again its an international bank to offshore bank account. Sort of "bank of belize" doing business under account 123 of bank of america

3 years ago I had a customer who told me that the cashier check I sent could not be deposited because "it lacked a magnetic stripe" or something along those lines. I told her to go bank to the bank go to a different teller and deposit it and come back 3 days later. That worked so...........bank workers (or custom workers for that matter) are not Sherlock Holmes when it comes to detecting fake checks

 

[slotchik]

Why are you having a CHECK sent?? Open up a NEW bank account and do an ACH...then close that account..Isnt that simple???

I didnt know anyone still requested checks. I dont trust them.

According to the US Customs "terms and conditions regarding International Mail" they have the right to scan it, open it and decide whether or not to process the shipment. It is at their sole discretion, and there is nothing no one can do. They did want to speak to JP Factory, and I gave JP the phone number yesterday, but they are too busy to make the call. Lastly, I just spoke with Eric from VIP at JP Factory and this is not the first time their checks have had their authenticity questioned. Personally, I do not think that JP's checks are illegitimate. I just think they could have put a stop payment on them, and issued me new ones. However, this must be the week that they sit on their hands as they have done nothing at all. I even PM'd their operations manager, he/she has not responded either.

 

[slotchik]

Issuing a cheque knowing that there won't be sufficient funds in your account is a criminal offence.

people bounce checks every day......but I hear what you're sayin

 

[unicorn40]

Why are you having a CHECK sent?? Open up a NEW bank account and do an ACH...then close that account..Isnt that simple???

It's not all that simple... you need a routing number that is on your checks, and the bank issued checks you get when you open the account don't have one in your name. You wait 2 weeks to get the ones in your name.

And I'm sure a bank would frown on people opening accounts, having one very large transaction, and then closing the account.

Banks do background checks on people, checking their credit history, and previous accounts, usually to see if they will allow overdraft protection on your account, and to see if you've passed bad checks in the past.

 

[linda7]

JF Update

Wolfie_Cr: I understand and agree completely with what you posted. Which is why when Customs said the checks were "bogus" (that's the word used at first) I told them that I had done business with this company before and was certain that they were wrong. That is why it took from Monday to Friday for Customs to be sure. Apparently they faxed a copy of the checks to the bank and the bank said "these checks are counterfeit". They not only told me, but they told JF as well.

Slotchik: I did give them a bank name and number to send an ACH. It is an account that I rarely, if ever, use so I am not worried. My main bank that I deal with, JF could never get that info. I simply do not trust them to have access to my main accounts.

I would have a complete different outlook on this issue, if only someone from Jackpot Factory would have replied to my emails or simply called me. As I stated above, prior to this, anyone that I needed to speak with was always reachable....now I am lucky if I get a Rep to talk to me for two minutes. I have heard the phrase "I don't know", more times this week than I have in a lifetime. I know Bryan is also waiting for an explanation, and so far nothing.

 

[spearmaster]

Everyone, including Linda, seems to be missing the point.

Greedygirl has already pointed out that payments are handled by Proc Cyber, which also handle payments for most of the larger Microgaming operations. Jackpot Factory is just one of these operations.

Jackpot Factory representatives probably do not know what is going on with payments and can't be expected to reply immediately with answers. I will, however, assume that they haven't been giving Linda any satisfaction, which can be very frustrating - and Jackpot Factory's strengths do NOT include public relations and customer service. They are, however, probably the most fair and least problematic of the large operations.

Basically, what it amounts to is this - the problem is entirely out of Jackpot Factory's hands once the payment has been issued - the problem now lies with Proc Cyber, and Jackpot Factory are unfairly being blamed for something they have no control over - and yet expected to provide immediate answers for something they have no knowledge of. When they say "I don't know", they really mean it - as stupid as that sounds, it's unfortunately true.

Customs is still full of shit. But if you want to point the finger at the other party, point to Proc Cyber, not Jackpot Factory. Call Proc Cyber at their offices and get them to sort it out and you might have better luck.

 

[Jackpot Factory]

Hi all,

First of all, please accept my apologies for not replying - I have been out of contact for the last three days.

We are currently trying to find out what happened here. We have never had checks stopped by customs, in the US or anywhere else, and we are having a hard time getting any answers out of them. Of course, the checks were not faked or fraudulent, and we do not know why customs has decided that they are, as we have sent checks for far larger amounts in the past, with no problems.

In any case, I can assure both Linda7 and everyone else that we are taking this very seriously, and will continue trying to get answers out of Customs to ensure that no players experience this problem in the future. In regards to this specific case, Linda7 - I have PM'd you regarding the best way to get your money to you as fast as possible.

Regards,

JF

 

[linda7]

REPLY TO SPEARMASTER:

Listed Below is the withdrawal statement from Wild Jack's casino, including reference numbers of each check sent to me in one package. Spear, are you trying to tell me that they could not have used a small portion of their brain and worked it out with Proc Cyber? I am the only one doing anything....they are sitting on their asses and waiting for me to get more information. I am done. I gave them my banking info, and will wait for my ACH. As I stated in every damn online casino sucks. By the way, if you have proc cybers phone number would you be kind enough to furnish it? I have no problem confronting them on this issue. HOWEVER, THERE IS STILL NO EXCUSE FOR JF NOT REPLYING TO MY EMAILS OR EVEN MAKING AN EFFORT TO EASE MY MIND IN SOME WAY. ALL THE BIG SHOTS ARE HIDING BEHIND THE REPS. WHICH MAKES ALL OF THEM NOTHING SHORT OF COWARDS.

Dear Linda Anders-Lieber

Please find included your Withdrawal Statement for 26 Jun 2005 to 27 Jun 2005.


Your Withdrawal Statement
Casino: Wild Jacks Casino
Casino Account No: wjrxxxxxxxxxx
Withdrawal ID: (Finalised) XXXXX
Withdrawal Amount: 30,000.00 Withdrawal Request Date: 26 Jun 2005

Payment Method Account Reference Amount Paid Date Paid
Credit against cash-in (8 : Token Refund) 5,000.00 27 Jun 2005 (this means that I reversed 5000 back into my account)

Check Payout Please see Address details below 428316 (Casino Ref.) 10,000.00 26 Jun 2005

Check Payout Please see Address details below 428317 (Casino Ref.) 10,000.00 26 Jun 2005

Check Payout Please see Address details below 428318 (Casino Ref.) 5,000.00 27 Jun 2005
Total Paid: 30,000.00 US Dollar


Cheque Address:
xxxx xxxxxx x
Brooklyn
NY-New York
United States
11235


The time your check takes to reach you is dependant on the method of delivery you chose:
- Check by regular mail: 14 21 days.
- Check by courier service: 3 5 days.
- Check by speed mail: 6 9 days.


Regards
Sheila Simms
Financial Director
Wild Jack Casino
A Jackpot Factory Casino
Our TOLL FREE numbers are:
USA: 1-866-251-2235
UK: 0-800 917-4616
Canada: 1-888-328-3619

 

[linda7]

Reply to Jackpot Factory:

Jackpot Factory, how nice to finally hear from you. I am going to assume that you have spoken to Officer Watson at US Customs and she told you that the bank on which the checks were drawn are counterfeit. Whether or not this is true, I will never know. However, what I do know is this....it has taken you six days to reply to my extensive amount of emails, which was way beyond frustrating! Also, since Customs assured me that I would never receive this package (I have told this to your reps over and over again), it finally dawned on your financial department yesterday to cancel the checks. Your reps said they replied to my emails, but I never received one response. So I opened a yahoo email account just for JF. They insisted on my banking info, so I gave them the info which I really did not want to do.
However, my hand was forced since they said this is the only way for me to get paid. I am off to go and read your PM. I am glad you took the time to respond and cannot wait for this problem to go away. Lastly, I am sure you will understand that I will no longer play at any of your casinos.

Have a great day!