Is R.T.P. a misnomer and are its percentages misleading to customers?

[mikeMega]

Wouldn't waste your time Dionysus.

Try to be nice and because it is not what he wants to hear he just gives abuse.

Lol even in his thanks to Brianmom he tells him jis first post was so badly wrote and punctuated anyone would misinterpret it.

But maybe he will learn that if he wants answers and a debate if he treats members with respect and is not abusive he will get a lot more help.

No paul,not Brians post. Yours.

 

[dionysus]

Wouldn't waste your time Dionysus.

.

d'oh
thanks for the reminder because it really IS a waste of time - I'd forgotten I'm blocked because I disagreed with him on his last thread
ah well, still, good for other new members to read dissenting opinions

 

[pinnit2014]

My cashout rule is double or bust and I always cashout if I manage a double but the last 20 or so deposits have been straight rips to bust town so I assure you I would much rather at least one of them had played well enough for a cashout. Thanks for the advice on the low variance slots, funnily enough I read an article on the top 10 slots of that kind earlier today, one of them immortal romance is always in my rotation of games, another is starburst but I wouldnt play that if it was free! The reason I had been playing only high variance, (bonanza and chilli) this week was for a shot at opal fruits.

The HV beasts can destroy your faith in fairness of slots but it’s a price to pay if you want a win to buy a new car ;-)

Like Brian said a volatility index would be useful - there are some sites like Betat that list games as LV,HV etc but I’m not sure how they decided what’s what....

 

[dionysus]

The HV beasts can destroy your faith in fairness of slots but it’s a price to pay if you want a win to buy a new car ;-)

Like Brian said a volatility index would be useful - there are some sites like Betat that list games as LV,HV etc but I’m not sure how they decided what’s what....

that would be nice - I think 3dice does something like that (a chilli metre?) - a game tag of L/M/H but I'm not sure everyone would agree on the metric

 

[trancemonkey]

My cashout rule is double or bust and I always cashout if I manage a double but the last 20 or so deposits have been straight rips to bust town so I assure you I would much rather at least one of them had played well enough for a cashout. Thanks for the advice on the low variance slots, funnily enough I read an article on the top 10 slots of that kind earlier today, one of them immortal romance is always in my rotation of games, another is starburst but I wouldnt play that if it was free! The reason I had been playing only high variance, (bonanza and chilli) this week was for a shot at opal fruits.

Immortal Romance, low variance?!

Ok, you appear to be a bit trigger happy when it comes to getting irritated with people for having an opinion, but let me try and boil it down for you...

What you are suggesting in "having a bonus if you have gone too long without one" is called compensation. It is illegal and it simply isn't going to happen...

Saying the RTP is not the best way for players to make decisions about what games to play is also true to an extent, but then there really isn't an amount of information that would likely make everyone happy.

For example, volatility index would be good right? And some casinos do do this, but the issue here is that most games producers use different scales to measure volatility and there is no one number that you could use. But I think this is likely the best way to do it and games providers should be able to rate "spiciness" on a scale of 1 to 4.

You could use standard deviation, but again that isnt a wholly accurate picture because if I make a game that is really low volatility, but then 1 in 10m games I pay a single 100,000 win (so 1% of the RTP), that game could look like its very volatile even though really it isn't. There are markets (Australia I believe) where games cant have really high standard deviation scores.

So lets take your example of feature frequency - you say knowing this would help, right? Only it wouldn't at all, because i could make a game that gives you a feature every 100 spins on average and pays an average of 20x. I could then make a game that gives a feature every 500 spins, but pays an average of 100x. Which one would you choose if you ONLY knew the feature frequency?

So now you might say you also need the average, but again that is pointless. Because the feature that averages 100x could pay 10x in 99 features an 9010x in the 100th feature. So that isnt a fair number either.

So now you would ask that the game tells you the chances of wins in certain ranges? And only then could you realistically understand how the game might actually play.

But then the games provider had given all his competitors enough information to recreate the game. So what do you think the chances are that a provider would willingly throw their only IP in to the wild for everyone to see?

Gambling is about luck. Sometimes about skill, but mostly luck. If you're having a bad session, don't chase. If you're having a good session, cash out.

Only spend what you are willing to lose. Then hopefully you will never get pissed off enough to start a thread on a forum and then needlessly start to get irate about some answers you don't like

 

[brianmon]

15 interactions and not one answer to the original question except for Brians second post which was much more specific and appreciated to the full. Sorry Brian your first post was just badly constructed and punctuated so it would be easy for anyone to misinterpret it. I appreciate you took the time to explain your answer properly the second time, good man thanks!

Now I'm confused
I've only made ONE post

 

[trancemonkey]

Now I'm confused
I've only made ONE post

Yeah, but it was so good he read it twice

 

[mikeMega]

Its great thereare replies so far, I appreciate you all. Now back to the very first question and the title of the thread,
Is R.T.P. a misnomer and are its percentages misleading to customers?
My answer to this simple question is yes. The reason why is because when the average person (not experienced players and gurus like here on casinomeister) see 96% they naturally think risks are low. They are not low and that is the point.

Now I'm confused
I've only made ONE post

same here Im confused too,sorry mate. lets start again. I apologise.

 

[goatwack]

Well at least it beats the caps lock

 

[dionysus]

did...did @trancemonkey not just write an insanely detailing post for this?

 

[paul7388]

Immortal Romance, low variance?!

Ok, you appear to be a bit trigger happy when it comes to getting irritated with people for having an opinion, but let me try and boil it down for you...

What you are suggesting in "having a bonus if you have gone too long without one" is called compensation. It is illegal and it simply isn't going to happen...

Saying the RTP is not the best way for players to make decisions about what games to play is also true to an extent, but then there really isn't an amount of information that would likely make everyone happy.

For example, volatility index would be good right? And some casinos do do this, but the issue here is that most games producers use different scales to measure volatility and there is no one number that you could use. But I think this is likely the best way to do it and games providers should be able to rate "spiciness" on a scale of 1 to 4.

You could use standard deviation, but again that isnt a wholly accurate picture because if I make a game that is really low volatility, but then 1 in 10m games I pay a single 100,000 win (so 1% of the RTP), that game could look like its very volatile even though really it isn't. There are markets (Australia I believe) where games cant have really high standard deviation scores.

So lets take your example of feature frequency - you say knowing this would help, right? Only it wouldn't at all, because i could make a game that gives you a feature every 100 spins on average and pays an average of 20x. I could then make a game that gives a feature every 500 spins, but pays an average of 100x. Which one would you choose if you ONLY knew the feature frequency?

So now you might say you also need the average, but again that is pointless. Because the feature that averages 100x could pay 10x in 99 features an 9010x in the 100th feature. So that isnt a fair number either.

So now you would ask that the game tells you the chances of wins in certain ranges? And only then could you realistically understand how the game might actually play.

But then the games provider had given all his competitors enough information to recreate the game. So what do you think the chances are that a provider would willingly throw their only IP in to the wild for everyone to see?

Gambling is about luck. Sometimes about skill, but mostly luck. If you're having a bad session, don't chase. If you're having a good session, cash out.

Only spend what you are willing to lose. Then hopefully you will never get pissed off enough to start a thread on a forum and then needlessly start to get irate about some answers you don't like

Thanks trance for the long post. After reading posts in other threads thats why i kept it simple and said it would make them illegal and compensated which you explained.

Somehow got the feeling he will not like your post either lol.

 

[dionysus]

if the argument is that simply writing RTP = X not enough...well, can you imagine 10 pages detailing and explaining preceisely what that means in the slot info pages that would satisfy every answer?
That's why there's CM - and well, a hundred million pages online - to read up and understand it. (and it's been explained ad nauseum here alone for anyone as bothers to search for it)

Enter car crashes on the highway because the sign 100kph has 500 lines below it detailing precisely what kph means in general and specificity

 

[mikeMega]

same here Im confused too,sorry mate. lets start again. I apologise.

That answer was for Paul,it should have read not Bryans post,yours. relating to the trolling thing. and the Bryan in question was the meister not Brianmom. hope that cleared that up,sorry for the confusion.

 

[paul7388]

That answer was for Paul,it should have read not Bryans post,yours. relating to the trolling thing. and the Bryan in question was the meister not Brianmom. hope that cleared that up,sorry for the confusion.

Thanks that was real clear. Okay i am even more lost. Time i bowed out of this thread

 

[mikeMega]

Immortal Romance, low variance?!

Ok, you appear to be a bit trigger happy when it comes to getting irritated with people for having an opinion, but let me try and boil it down for you...

What you are suggesting in "having a bonus if you have gone too long without one" is called compensation. It is illegal and it simply isn't going to happen...

Saying the RTP is not the best way for players to make decisions about what games to play is also true to an extent, but then there really isn't an amount of information that would likely make everyone happy.

For example, volatility index would be good right? And some casinos do do this, but the issue here is that most games producers use different scales to measure volatility and there is no one number that you could use. But I think this is likely the best way to do it and games providers should be able to rate "spiciness" on a scale of 1 to 4.

You could use standard deviation, but again that isnt a wholly accurate picture because if I make a game that is really low volatility, but then 1 in 10m games I pay a single 100,000 win (so 1% of the RTP), that game could look like its very volatile even though really it isn't. There are markets (Australia I believe) where games cant have really high standard deviation scores.

So lets take your example of feature frequency - you say knowing this would help, right? Only it wouldn't at all, because i could make a game that gives you a feature every 100 spins on average and pays an average of 20x. I could then make a game that gives a feature every 500 spins, but pays an average of 100x. Which one would you choose if you ONLY knew the feature frequency?

So now you might say you also need the average, but again that is pointless. Because the feature that averages 100x could pay 10x in 99 features an 9010x in the 100th feature. So that isnt a fair number either.

So now you would ask that the game tells you the chances of wins in certain ranges? And only then could you realistically understand how the game might actually play.

But then the games provider had given all his competitors enough information to recreate the game. So what do you think the chances are that a provider would willingly throw their only IP in to the wild for everyone to see?

Gambling is about luck. Sometimes about skill, but mostly luck. If you're having a bad session, don't chase. If you're having a good session, cash out.

Only spend what you are willing to lose. Then hopefully you will never get pissed off enough to start a thread on a forum and then needlessly start to get irate about some answers you don't like

Thats great Trancemonkey but nothing I dont already know. Here is the article putting immortal romance in the same category as starburst and it wasn't about the volatility of the slots it was about the top 20 slots with the highest rtp so I made a mistake there but what Im saying now should explain what I meant. <snipped URL> casinopedia.org/best-slots/

Thanks that was real clear. Okay i am even more lost. Time i bowed out of this thread

Bye!

Well at least it beats the caps lock

Did you read the article I posted about CAPS LOCK?

 

[trancemonkey]

Thats great Trancemonkey but nothing I dont already know. Here is the article putting immortal romance in the same category as starburst and it wasn't about the volatility of the slots it was about the top 20 slots with the highest rtp so I made a mistake there but what Im saying now should explain what I meant.

So you already know everything I've said, and yet you still start a thread asking for information about it? You know it's illegal and yet you still suggest it. You know about variance, standard deviation, rtp distribution, frequency and IP... and yet you still pose that question? If you already know all the reasons why it cant be done, why ask?!

I'm done here too I think...

 

[mikeMega]

So you already know everything I've said, and yet you still start a thread asking for information about it? You know it's illegal and yet you still suggest it. You know about variance, standard deviation, rtp distribution, frequency and IP... and yet you still pose that question? If you already know all the reasons why it cant be done, why ask?!

I'm done here too I think...

Is R.T.P. a misnomer and are its percentages misleading to customers?
My answer to this simple question is yes. The reason why is because when the average person (not experienced players and gurus like here on casinomeister) see 96% they naturally think risks are low. They are not low and that is the point. Thats the first question I asked and my answer,whats yours?

Is R.T.P. a misnomer and are its percentages misleading to customers?
My answer to this simple question is yes. The reason why is because when the average person (not experienced players and gurus like here on casinomeister) see 96% they naturally think risks are low. They are not low and that is the point. Thats the first question I asked and my answer,whats yours?

And you are far to bright to be either a monkey or in a trance mate lol

 

[brianmon]

Thats great Trancemonkey but nothing I dont already know. Here is the article putting immortal romance in the same category as starburst and it wasn't about the volatility of the slots it was about the top 20 slots with the highest rtp so I made a mistake there but what Im saying now should explain what I meant. ]

I wouldn't take any notice of articles on affiliate websites such as that. It's bollocks, basically
The RTP for Immortal Romance is, and always has been 96.86 not 98.1

 

[mikeMega]

I wouldn't take any notice of articles on affiliate websites such as that. It's bollocks, basically
The RTP for Immortal Romance is, and always has been 96.86 not 98.1

Well what do you know, a lie about slots. Thanks Brianmon it just goes to show theres BS about and its good to question things!

 

[trancemonkey]

And you are far to bright to be either a monkey or in a trance mate lol

Remember the old saying... "Give enough monkeys computers and one will write the works of Shakespeare..."

I'm the monkey that got bored of typing and made music.

And btw, my answer is in my reply earlier, but I will reiterate it here... no RTP is not enough to show risk, and volatility rankings would be better alongside RTP.

Also your use of the word misnomer is arguably incorrect as a misnomer is an inaccurate description of something, but RTP is not an inaccurate description of anything. It is a statement of fact.

But its after midnight and I need my monkey sleep

 

[mikeMega]

Well what do you know, a lie about slots. Thanks Brianmon it just goes to show theres BS about and its good to question things!

thats not me asking what do you know, im using the old saying whaddya know? just to be clear!!

 

[colinsunderland]

Thats great Trancemonkey but nothing I dont already know. Here is the article putting immortal romance in the same category as starburst and it wasn't about the volatility of the slots it was about the top 20 slots with the highest rtp so I made a mistake there but what Im saying now should explain what I meant.**snipped link**

Just going to say, take no notice of shit affiliate sites with incorrect information, especially ones that are breaking the UKGC rules on advertising and the CAP code in multiple places.

Maybe @CasumoAffiliates @CasumoLouis @LeoVegas Affiliates @LeoVegas Rep @MrGreen&Evoke Aff. Manager @Mark_32Red @Guts @UnibetDavid @Unibet Rep @Melvin - Panda @L&L-Jan @Team.Videoslots might all want to scroll through the site and close the affiliate's accounts before they get fined for allowing it. No terms and conditions or anything.

 

[mikeMega]

Remember the old saying... "Give enough monkeys computers and one will write the works of Shakespeare..."

I'm the monkey that got bored of typing and made music.

And btw, my answer is in my reply earlier, but I will reiterate it here... no RTP is not enough to show risk, and volatility rankings would be better alongside RTP.

Also your use of the word misnomer is arguably incorrect as a misnomer is an inaccurate description of something, but RTP is not a description of anything. It is a statement of fact.

But its after midnight and I need my monkey sleep

Can I hear some tunes please? Good man for the answer, what do you think would be a better way to state risk more clearly should a law like that come into place?

 

[brianmon]

Well what do you know, a lie about slots. Thanks Brianmon it just goes to show theres BS about and its good to question things!

But it's not a lie from the game provider. It's a lie from an affiliate, who's only interested in getting people, who don't know any different, to sign up to casinos through the links from their site. So they make commision.
In fact that whole page is riddled with mistakes - First item 'Mega Joker' is not a NetEnt game.
And is purposefully misleading - "In Starburst, when you hit a wild it may give you up to three re-spins and with a little luck, over £50,000" - Yeah if you're very lucky and doing £100 spins

You need to be careful where you get your information from.

 

[mack341]

Its great thereare replies so far, I appreciate you all. Now back to the very first question and the title of the thread,
Is R.T.P. a misnomer and are its percentages misleading to customers?
My answer to this simple question is yes. The reason why is because when the average person (not experienced players and gurus like here on casinomeister) see 96% they naturally think risks are low. They are not low and that is the point.

I think everyone who starts playing slots will learn the hard way about the risks, the only real shortcut is providing the odds alongside the rtp and there is considerable resistance to this idea from the industry and also some players who like the mystery.

I played a bit of rhino today, had 23 dead spins in a row, a few 1 x wins and then another 20 odd dead results, the sense of rigged and un random soon dominates your thinking and cussing, but if someone can win 1000x the money's got to come from somewhere...