Is R.T.P. a misnomer and are its percentages misleading to customers?

mikeMega

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I am not a fan of the term R.T.P. because I think that it a blanket term that is misleading to players. rtp used in the slot industry and advertised on slots does not explain individual players returns accurately or give the player a realistic idea of what to expect whilst playing slots.

In my opinion it should not be used on slots without other data sets being included too that supply more information to create a more accurate description of that particular game. I think that another problem with slots is the bonus/freespins/feature frequency and how these are divided over any players gaming experience.

I think that the term trp could be interpreted as false advertising and misleading even if the numbers are correct.

I think if a slot has an average feature frequency over the entire worlds play, then there should be a mechanism that can read a players gaming history and automatically issue them a bonus round should they be exceeding the average by a certain percentage. The VAST majority of bonuses do not meet the claimed pay out averages anyway so whats the difference if a player gets a poor bonus round instead of a 20x win? At least the providers could not be seen as falling short on their own claims and the player would get the features they are paying for.

I will use bonanza as an example of what I mean by this. We all know bonanza has the most complaints here about going too long without a feature compared to BTGs touted estimate. Many players, myself included have went up to 5 times more spins than the estimate to trigger a feature and many times when the feature finally comes it is a pathetic return the results of which can be predicted from the first few spins. Not only does this rubbish the providers claim it also brings truly random games into question and this type of play has sowed the seed of doubt in many players minds.

I think this needs to stop because it contradicts what is being claimed and destroys the entire point of a slots session when we do not get bonuses. This is taking the entertainment value away and rendering it useless and therefore it leaves players frustrated annoyed or angry and just makes the providers claims unbelievable. When something is unbeLIEvable the majority of people that experience this will call Bullsh1t eventually.

Obviously when one player wins big, others must lose to compensate this. Perhaps the only way to ensure all players have better chances is to cap wins in currency values. So no matter your stake there is a max win (that is lower than existing caps now) to ensure more players are getting a return instead of 1000 losers for one winner. It could be 10 winners for 100 losers if the max wins where weighted and capped differently, therefore more happy customers and less people feeling ripped off.

With the gambling industry under the spotlight and casinos getting fined on a monthly basis for ineptitude or breaking player protection laws and igaming getting the most public and political criticism it has had since its inception (except for maybe around black friday when all the poker cheats/thieves where exposed) I think the onus should be all providers to ensure that individual players are not getting undercut in terms of their entertainment value and their cash returns.

What do you guys think about this and do you have any input on the matter? Thanks Mike!
 

mikeMega

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Trollish post - don't do it.
Lol i will keep it simple. Seriously you think that is a good idea what you posted. Will never happen and legally it would not be allowed. You are basically making slots compensated.
cheers for the first reply and I am so sorry you are so negative, that must be a sad way to be. Just because the likes of yourself and that troll that insta liked your comment might think that way, I wont limit my possibilities in any aspect of life, you should try living and thinking my way for a change, it is extremely liberating and rewarding. :)
 

mikeMega

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Lol i will keep it simple. Seriously you think that is a good idea what you posted. Will never happen and legally it would not be allowed. You are basically making slots compensated.
Any chance of actually answering the question instead of a personal attack? I mean thats what the thread is about after all.
 

mikeMega

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That wasn't a personal attack. Please chill out - thank you.
"Seriously you think that is a good idea what you posted." Sorry Bryan obviously I think it was a good idea or I wouldnt have posted it so to me it is an attack (all be it a very slight one) because it suggests it is something I never thought through and could imply a dig at me for my stupidity by Paul. Thats personal in my book. All I would like is input on the questions I asked and I was very specific about that. I dont need digs and I dont want them, thats trolling.
 

brianmon

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yeah but I never said that though or suggested it. Im sorry you misunderstood, try again, its about more winners, smaller wins not everyone winning, TRY AGAIN!
That's called variance/volatility.

Low variance = more wins - small wins
High Variance = fewer wins - bigger wins

It's all a matter of choosing the the game which suits you best.

Although, along side RTP, a volatility index would be useful.
 

xexe

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yeah but I never said that though or suggested it. Im sorry you misunderstood, try again, its about more winners, smaller wins not everyone winning, TRY AGAIN!
I know it's not literally what you suggested, but it reminded me of that (and it's in that direction that you're going). And you know, there are slots out there with very low max-wins. Play those instead of asking for all slots to follow a certain pattern. :)
 

paul7388

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cheers for the first reply and I am so sorry you are so negative, that must be a sad way to be. Just because the likes of yourself and that troll that insta liked your comment might think that way, I wont limit my possibilities in any aspect of life, you should try living and thinking my way for a change, it is extremely liberating and rewarding. :)
Are you for real. It was not negative it was a fact. And if that makes my life sad then so be it.

Actually your reply to me is the one that is sad and negative. From what i have read in this thread and your posts about RTP it is clear you do not really understand much about the way slots work. And last thing i would want is to live a life like yours but thanks for the offer lol.

You asked opinions and i gave you one yet as it is not what you wanted to hear you turned it into an attack.

But anyway this "sad" person has better things to do than argue the toss with someone who has come across as neither clued up or worth having a debate with.

Have a nice evening:thumbsup:
 
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dionysus

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"Seriously you think that is a good idea what you posted." Sorry Bryan obviously I think it was a good idea or I wouldnt have posted it so to me it is an attack (all be it a very slight one) because it suggests it is something I never thought through and could imply a dig at me for my stupidity by Paul. Thats personal in my book. All I would like is input on the questions I asked and I was very specific about that. I dont need digs and I dont want them, thats trolling.
you're kiddin right? :rolleyes:You called me a troll for using the like button

regardles, what was said, is in fact, true; you can't re-distribute 'wealth' based on return, it would make the slots what everyone accuses them of being - rigged and/or compensated
 

dunover

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I'll post here the same reply as I gave your PM earlier:

This should really be posted on the forum in order to instigate replies from all. As for the RTP being misleading, you're barking up the wrong tree. If you view casinos such as Videoslots which keep the current RTP of their games over all their customers in view, you'll see very few games deviate substantially from their stated TRTP, including Bonanza. What you need to understand is the volatility coefficient as this can and will have a significant effect on your game play, even over thousands and thousands of spins. Bonanza is a very complex game with billions of reel permutations and this means it's unlikely to be consistent even over a large sample size. This is why you should read the 'Ask me anything about slots' thread by Trancemonkey who will confirm the above for you.

Not everyone will give you the answers you seek, or that compound your beliefs.

Your real issue here is nothing other players haven't experienced at one time or another, and your concerns are little to do with RTP and its relevance, more so the fact you don't seem to fully understand how HV slots work and the subsequent effects on your play. Again, a HV slot like most BTG ones can take a huge number of spins to balance out for each player. RTP is not misleading, it's the legal requirement for long-term payback. It's how the RTP is distributed (i.e. percentage allocated to base game and features) and the win values allocated to certain reel symbols and their likelihood of landing - again, back to volatility. All the answers you seek are on the forum, many times over.


The games are not compensated, that's illegal for the type of online slots you play and they don't need to be anyway as the house has a 4% edge on average. We've had numerous threads in this vein before, where people cannot rationalize what is either simple bad luck or failing to withdraw when ahead, which then leads to all sort of irrational accusations and statements when they've lost. To that end I cannot contribute anything further here and don't wish to do so because it's been said on numerous conspiracy threads before.

I'll just sit here and wait for the inevitable casualties.
 

dionysus

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To that end I cannot contribute anything further here and don't wish to do so because it's been said on numerous conspiracy threads before.

I'll just sit here and wait for the inevitable casualties.
The AMA thread is good for reference; unfortunately it's become so long it's hard to pull up reference at this point.

I think however, trance created a summary page of sorts, but wouldnt know for the life of me, what it's titled
 

mikeMega

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15 interactions and not one answer to the original question except for Brians second post which was much more specific and appreciated to the full. Sorry Brian your first post was just badly constructed and punctuated so it would be easy for anyone to misinterpret it. I appreciate you took the time to explain your answer properly the second time, good man thanks!
 

pinnit2014

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Redistribution? Sounds like a Corbyn made slot :p

No and no to compensated slots - id rather take the risky route of a High Variance slot. You’re playing Bonanza? Why not try some of the lower variance ones? Possibly lower but more frequent cash outs : I tend to do this when my lucks our just to give the assurances that the withdrawal button is not broken. :)
 

dionysus

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What do you guys think about this and do you have any input on the matter? Thanks Mike!
15 interactions and not one answer to the original question except for Brians second post
paul posted, I reiterated the point, dunover addressed it and brianmon answered it
it's just perhaps not the answers you want
 

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