is it just me or is my tin foil hat picking up a trend here

[jshort]

Why?

All casino's are in the business of taking your money - they are pretty open and honest about it.

Why not just submit the 'fair' one that guarantees they get to keep between 2-9% of all the money that people throw into the casino?

Millions and millions of pounds.

You lot are bonkers!

I take it then that audits aren't randomly done without notifying the casino?

 

[jshort]

Thank you Slotster! You said it far better than I

I had given up on this thread

Why?

 

[Dinahnana]

Why? Is it CM policy to ignore anyone who questions the integrity of online gambling?

Of course the CM community are the first to cry foul if something was amiss. Having said that there is usually some proof (extensive testing by players etc) before the alarm is sounded. Until you have some stats to back up the lack of integrity all you have is conjecture. I know Jshort you are just asking questions which is good and you are talking hypothetically (at least I think you are).

 

[Dinahnana]

Why?

Because you have your opinion which is your right however I don't think anything I could say will convince you for the most part online gaming is not rigged. Of course that is just my opinion

 

[randomiam]

thanks for you input everyone

Cheers guys for you posts and to all those who care to read this i am sitting in my world war one bunker with my tin food tin foil and tin guns waiting for the zombies to come just to make me seem more crazy some of you guys seem to love that. My thread was to see how common bad and good runs can be over a large group of people and i have received that

 

[Dinahnana]

Cheers guys for you posts and to all those who care to read this i am sitting in my world war one bunker with my tin food tin foil and tin guns waiting for the zombies to come just to make me seem more crazy some of you guys seem to love that. My thread was to see how common bad and good runs can be over a large group of people and i have received that

Those zombies are killers!

 

[jshort]

Because you have your opinion which is your right however I don't think anything I could say will convince you for the most part online gaming is not rigged. Of course that is just my opinion

Fair enough, but I'd still value your input

I'm not as skeptical with regards to MG, though its still a question mark in my mind and I play MG games a lot, so I like to ask the sensitive questions.

Ps: I had deleted the question after my "Why" comment but you were too quick for me!

 

[Dinahnana]

Fair enough, but I'd still value your input

I'm not as skeptical with regards to MG, though its still a question mark in my mind and I play MG games a lot, so I like to ask the sensitive questions.

Ps: I had deleted the question after my "Why" comment but you were too quick for me!

I can be fast sometimes

 

[brianmon]

I think the biggest problem at the moment is the technical performance of most sites. With the amount of lag, errors and disconnections, it's easy for anyone to get paranoid about things.
Although I'm not getting paranoid about it. I can say that I've never managed to make a profit on a site when the lag is really bad

I've just played at superlenny, the lag was horrendous and my RTP on TSII for the session was 72.6%
One bonus round after 260 spins, second bonus round after another 320 spins (both paid around 12x stake) and i never got to a third bonus round, I was up to 365 spins when my balance hit zero.

And it's not just the browser-based sites which are lagging. i was getting lag the other night at a downloaded casino, and also a very low RTP.

If I was a new customer/novice player I'd be giving up online gambling. Although I won't be depositing again at superlenny

 

[mrmark21]

I think the biggest problem at the moment is the technical performance of most sites. With the amount of lag, errors and disconnections, it's easy for anyone to get paranoid about things.
Although I'm not getting paranoid about it. I can say that I've never managed to make a profit on a site when the lag is really bad

I've just played at superlenny, the lag was horrendous and my RTP on TSII for the session was 72.6%
One bonus round after 260 spins, second bonus round after another 320 spins (both paid around 12x stake) and i never got to a third bonus round, I was up to 365 spins when my balance hit zero.

And it's not just the browser-based sites which are lagging. i was getting lag the other night at a downloaded casino, and also a very low RTP.

If I was a new customer/novice player I'd be giving up online gambling. Although I won't be depositing again at superlenny

I noticed the feature seems particularly impossible to hit when there's allot of lag. Maybe it just feels like that because the spins are taking extra long to play out or maybe it's a watered down version with less wins making it easier for the server to handle. Probably most likely in my head but as you said it does feel that way.

I never played on the MG slots at Super Lenny. Maybe that's where your going wrong? You could perhaps give some of their other softwares a shot I've had tons of luck on the Pay N Go slots at just about every casino.

 

[Nifty29]

I noticed the feature seems particularly impossible to hit when there's allot of lag. Maybe it just feels like that because the spins are taking extra long to play out or maybe it's a watered down version with less wins making it easier for the server to handle. Probably most likely in my head but as you said it does feel that way.

I never played on the MG slots at Super Lenny. Maybe that's where your going wrong? You could perhaps give some of their other softwares a shot I've had tons of luck on the Pay N Go slots at just about every casino.

Come on mark.

If you REALLY believe all this, then you should never ever play an electronic gaming machine on or offline EVER. If you DO, then it speaks volumes about how confident you are about your own theories.

All "lag" means is that there is a delay in signals being passed from client to server. The content of those signals is completely unrelated and unaffected i.e. losing spins would be just as subject to lag as winning ones.

 

[mrmark21]

Come on mark.

If you REALLY believe all this, then you should never ever play an electronic gaming machine on or offline EVER. If you DO, then it speaks volumes about how confident you are about your own theories.

All "lag" means is that there is a delay in signals being passed from client to server. The content of those signals is completely unrelated and unaffected i.e. losing spins would be just as subject to lag as winning ones.

Lol!? That's probably the reason I said it's most likely in my head

But why wouldn't I play a gaming machine offline? Those are heavily regulated.

BTW if the Betfred/Speilo fiasco was anything go off then I'd rather stick to the heavily regulated offline gaming machines.

 

[243 lines=daft]

My own perception of Microgaming slots is also that they are playing differently now to this time last year.

2-3 years ago I started to believe the games were accented towards big wins for excitement purposes.
This theory actually suited my style of playing and that's why I have subsequently played Microgaming more than any other provider.

An example of what I mean is in 9-line Thunderstruck and the clones like Spring Break etc. I would see top symbol lines come in, and often in free spins (tripling the already big payout) but would more rarely see mid table five of a kinds (and much more rarely in FS).

Particularly in the final year of the Ladbrokes Microgaming casino I found this perception held up and worked for me.
A specific example is that I hit the top symbol with wilds in free spins (paying a pleasing 643x total stake) a total of five times early last year (three times in four weeks) but during the same period hit only two lesser paying five of a kinds in free spins.

I'm not seeing this at all on any Microgaming casino I use in 2014 and my feeling is that there may have been a change splitting the results more evenly between symbols?
It's entirely possible I have had an unusually tilted experience over several years (based on the accepted freakish possibilities of randomness), so would be interested if anyone else playing these games has perceived things similarly.

 

[dunover]

My own perception of Microgaming slots is also that they are playing differently now to this time last year.

2-3 years ago I started to believe the games were accented towards big wins for excitement purposes.
This theory actually suited my style of playing and that's why I have subsequently played Microgaming more than any other provider.

An example of what I mean is in 9-line Thunderstruck and the clones like Spring Break etc. I would see top symbol lines come in, and often in free spins (tripling the already big payout) but would more rarely see mid table five of a kinds (and much more rarely in FS).

Particularly in the final year of the Ladbrokes Microgaming casino I found this perception held up and worked for me.
A specific example is that I hit the top symbol with wilds in free spins (paying a pleasing 643x total stake) a total of five times early last year (three times in four weeks) but during the same period hit only two lesser paying five of a kinds in free spins.

I'm not seeing this at all on any Microgaming casino I use in 2014 and my feeling is that there may have been a change splitting the results more evenly between symbols?It's entirely possible I have had an unusually tilted experience over several years (based on the accepted freakish possibilities of randomness), so would be interested if anyone else playing these games has perceived things similarly.

This would only occur if the reel maps had been changed. They haven't. Foil Hat (de luxe version) in the post....

 

[brianmon]

I noticed a difference in the slots i regularly play, straight after Avalon II went live earlier this year.

A thought i had was that maybe they had to change the output range of the RNG or something. since Avalon II seems to have more symbols per reel than any previous slots, and this has somehow changed the gameplay of other slots. which would interpret/modify the number produced from this RNG to produce a 'spin' result

I say 'The' RNG, since MG's website insinuates that there is one 'master' RNG for all their games

"The kernel responsible for our entire gaming logic is known as an RNG (Random Number Generator). Our RNG was set more than a decade ago, and over the years it has been checked and approved by the leading accredited testing agencies. Responsible for all gaming logic"

 

[dunover]

I noticed a difference in the slots i regularly play, straight after Avalon II went live earlier this year.

A thought i had was that maybe they had to change the output range of the RNG or something. since Avalon II seems to have more symbols per reel than any previous slots, and this has somehow changed the gameplay of other slots. which would interpret/modify the number produced from this RNG to produce a 'spin' result

I say 'The' RNG, since MG's website insinuates that there is one 'master' RNG for all their games

"The kernel responsible for our entire gaming logic is known as an RNG (Random Number Generator). Our RNG was set more than a decade ago, and over the years it has been checked and approved by the leading accredited testing agencies. Responsible for all gaming logic"

Yes, indeed - I've always felt that myself, good to see it in words. I and others have noticed that when you're on the up-curve you're on it for all games you play (bar AWP's) and similarly when on the down-curve.

 

[243 lines=daft]

I feel that noticing something is different about slots that you play a lot and pointing it out on here can be like noticing a passing bus has egg dripping down the window.

Someone might come up to you and say 'there can't be egg dripping down the window because the buses still have their windows checked regularly'
Is that going to change your mind or do you still feel confident in what you've perceived with you own experience?

I played about 4 intense hours of 9-liners on 32 Red last night (and yay got a nice bunch of wins and cashed in).
Based on what I'm experiencing these slots are basically playing differently from this time last year.
I see egg!

 

[dunover]

I feel that noticing something is different about slots that you play a lot and pointing it out on here can be like noticing a passing bus has egg dripping down the window.

Someone might come up to you and say 'there can't be egg dripping down the window because the buses still have their windows checked regularly'
Is that going to change your mind or do you still feel confident in what you've perceived with you own experience?

I played about 4 intense hours of 9-liners on 32 Red last night (and yay got a nice bunch of wins and cashed in).
Based on what I'm experiencing these slots are basically playing differently from this time last year.
I see egg!

I see a lot of glinting from all that foil.........

 

[gagamel]

I feel that noticing something is different about slots that you play a lot and pointing it out on here can be like noticing a passing bus has egg dripping down the window.

Someone might come up to you and say 'there can't be egg dripping down the window because the buses still have their windows checked regularly'
Is that going to change your mind or do you still feel confident in what you've perceived with you own experience?

I played about 4 intense hours of 9-liners on 32 Red last night (and yay got a nice bunch of wins and cashed in).
Based on what I'm experiencing these slots are basically playing differently from this time last year. I see egg!

I don`t see a difference between 2013, 2014 or for example 20010.
I depost, I spin, I lose
Just a few big hits with TS and TS2, that`s all.
But I don`t play too much MG slots and I can`t see the up and downs or any difference.
In my opinion there are two modes in slot playing:

Normal mode: you lose
Winning mode: you win/lose and sometimes you can make a (big) profit. Winning mode can last for weeks. I know it because I have such unbelievable long winning streaks too.

But in the end the streak will go by and you lose. If you are unlucky you lose your winnings and more and you are frustrated.

The players imagination that there is something different during Normal Mode (losing) and Winning Mode is solety because a lot of players have a distorted perception on their own gameplay (including myself sometimes)

No offence to anyone here, just my thoughts

 

[mrmark21]

Does anyone actually have any evidence for or against? I'm open minded. I like to see evidence and I'm not one to just place all my faith in a bunch of hearsay. I'd love to see some evidence that the slots haven't changed or some that they have. Some evidence that the games aren't/are compensated, weighted, or controlled...

Could the software developer provide us with some evidence (I've never seen any) or aren't they willing to provide this information to the people that play their games? I know the reason players aren't able to offer up any evidence - Don't you need a ridiculous amount of spins to be passed as a large enough sample? Remember it's a natural human instinct to question things.

Without evidence there are no answers. So some members can carry on belittling other members because it makes them feel superior or accept that they don't know any more than the next person (as in they have no authority). Please by all means if you do know more then share your hidden knowledge with the rest of us? I'm sure we would all love to know so that we can finally put this thread and these questions to rest.

I agree with Nifty and co that if your having a run of bad luck or questioning the randomness of the games then you should stop playing. I did, I think it was one of the best decisions during my online gambling career

 

[dunover]

Does anyone actually have any evidence for or against? I'm open minded. I like to see evidence and I'm not one to just place all my faith in a bunch of hearsay. I'd love to see some evidence that the slots haven't changed or some that they have. Some evidence that the games aren't/are compensated, weighted, or controlled...

Could the software developer provide us with some evidence (I've never seen any) or aren't they willing to provide this information to the people that play their games? I know the reason players aren't able to offer up any evidence - Don't you need a ridiculous amount of spins to be passed as a large enough sample? Remember it's a natural human instinct to question things.

Without evidence there are no answers. So some members can carry on belittling other members because it makes them feel superior or accept that they don't know any more than the next person (as in they have no authority). Please by all means if you do know more then share your hidden knowledge with the rest of us? I'm sure we would all love to know so that we can finally put this thread and these questions to rest.

I agree with Nifty and co that if your having a run of bad luck or questioning the randomness of the games then you should stop playing. I did, I think it was one of the best decisions during my online gambling career

I think your best answer here and more definitive than our opinions, is in the data provided by kktmd where he played many of the games over a million spins and they were bang-on the advertised TRTP. His tables show large wins and the spread and frequency of features. Let's say you had his million spins' results in front of you, you could pick a starting point at a certain spin and say take 1500 from there and only get a 30% RTP for that 1500 spin-block and one or no features.
Pick another point and do the same but this time choosing a good sequence, and you could show 400% RTP for your 1500 spins including many features and big wins.

As we all know RANDOMNESS PRODUCES CURVES!
It's never steady where there are many permutations and outcomes possible, and I know it sounds clichéd now, but your luck and returns all depend where you are on the curve. You guys have had downturns, but I also wager you've experienced upturns a few time and all...........

 

[gagamel]

Does anyone actually have any evidence for or against? I'm open minded. I like to see evidence and I'm not one to just place all my faith in a bunch of hearsay. I'd love to see some evidence that the slots haven't changed or some that they have. Some evidence that the games aren't/are compensated, weighted, or controlled...

Could the software developer provide us with some evidence (I've never seen any) or aren't they willing to provide this information to the people that play their games? I know the reason players aren't able to offer up any evidence - Don't you need a ridiculous amount of spins to be passed as a large enough sample? Remember it's a natural human instinct to question things.

Without evidence there are no answers. So some members can carry on belittling other members because it makes them feel superior or accept that they don't know any more than the next person (as in they have no authority). Please by all means if you do know more then share your hidden knowledge with the rest of us? I'm sure we would all love to know so that we can finally put this thread and these questions to rest.

I agree with Nifty and co that if your having a run of bad luck or questioning the randomness of the games then you should stop playing. I did, I think it was one of the best decisions during my online gambling career

kktmd made more than one million spins on some MG slots, you can find the results here:

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/your-help-on-these-observations.58091/

I makes no sense to control or change a slot with an RTP of 96% when the slot is clearly paying 96%.

Sorry, dunover was quicker

 

[mrmark21]

Now that's what I'm talking about Wow! That's exactly what I was looking for as well. Now I don't know what to think I've been asking for evidence for ages and that's all I needed. Their slots just seemed so tight. I just always thought there had to be some sort of control in there or maybe the slots were compensated. But my results have been SOOOOO bad! But that's evidence right there.

Well that changes everything I thought I knew about MG. Hmmm I'm not going to play MG any time soon but that certainly answers my question. Thanks

 

[brianmon]

I would assume kktmd was spinning in freeplay/fun mode.
So you would have to assume that play would be EXACTLY the same in real play.
and considering what seems to be coming to light about PT slots real vs fun mode....

and if you read through the thread

BTW: I'm still not convinced that Freeplay behaves like Real play, so take this data with a grain of salt.

 

[mrmark21]

I would assume kktmd was spinning in freeplay/fun mode.
So you would have to assume that play would be EXACTLY the same in real play.
and considering what seems to be coming to light about PT slots real vs fun mode....

Wait, what? That's not evidence if the spins weren't on real play. I don't believe for one second that the slots play the same on fun mode as they do real mode. I've seen it myself on Netent (I actually like this software) and PT.

Does it need to be so hard to find evidence? Can't MG just release evidence that would put all players minds at ease.

 

[Azzurri]

I think the debate is a healthy one regardless of what side of the fence you're on. I don't think it's necessary for some meisters to sarcastically tease other posters, as everyone is entitled to an opinion, or to share their thoughts and experiences. That is the general idea behind forums.

I think we would all like to think no funny business, or corruption is involved when it comes to the software. However, just as it may seem naive to some, that players become suspicious, perhaps it is just as naive to believe it is all entirely above board, because those who provide the software, and distribute it, tell us it is.

The change I've noticed with MG, has nothing to do with being on a losing streak, as I have continued to win and hit features, however the size of the wins have drastically reduced, when compared to the same hits, and bet sizes, as approximately 4-6 months ago. My playing habits haven't changed, hence I made comments regarding my experiences, whether crazy sounding or not.

If the comment made by someone within this thread, regarding MG funding ecogra, is true, then surely that's a huge conflict of interest. It sounds too crazy to be true, as surely it's not a great message to be sending the end client. I'm not saying anything untoward is occurring, but if true, surely every player has a slight concern that the provider themselves have created and funded the very organisation who's job it is to police and enforce fair play from that provider. Very confusing.

 

[243 lines=daft]

Does it need to be so hard to find evidence? Can't MG just release evidence that would put all players minds at ease.

The only statements I've seen from Microgaming on the issues of how their slots run relate to the RNG, pointing out that it is a tried and tested clean RNG.

That doesn't address any of the real issues though. The RNG can be clean but how that reflects in the player's experience is another matter.
It seems so hard to have any kind of discussion about this without people swooping down and assuming

a- Randomness is being questioned (I never have disputed that MGS use a clean RNG)
b- Anyone discussing the issue is on a losing streak (I'm not! I'm down net at 32Red but up at the other Microgaming casinos I play at)

Microgaming could make things much clearer by being transparent about how their slots work.
I don't know why they don't, beyond the fact that nobody in positions of relative power ever seems to ask them.

The fact that results are tested by ECogra doesn't address the issues either. ECogra engage in outcome based testing rather than examining source code which to my mind is a bit like trying to work out what someone had to eat by examining their burps.

 

[mrmark21]

Free play cannot be used as evidence at least not IMO. Which is a shame because I was so ready and hoping that I accepted it at first glance. But IMO that just cant be seen as evidence. Thanks for trying though Dunover and Gagamel

If the comment made by someone within this thread, regarding MG funding ecogra, is true, then surely that's a huge conflict of interest. It sounds too crazy to be true, as surely it's not a great message to be sending the end client. I'm not saying anything untoward is occurring, but if true, surely every player has a slight concern that the provider themselves have created and funded the very organisation who's job it is to police and enforce fair play from that provider. Very confusing.

But that is true (according to what I've read about MG outside this forum) and part of the reason I'm so confused about these people that continually ignore that little piece of information and continue to base their decision purely on hearsay. I think ignorance is bliss.


P.s. Would you like me to post the article?

 

[brianmon]

AFAIK eCogra only test 3 slot games randomly chosen.

if you click on their logo on any of the sites which display it. they give a percentage payout report for the casino and 3 certificates of randomness but for only Blackjack, roulette and video poker. they don't appear to issue one for slots !!

 

[dunover]

AFAIK eCogra only test 3 slot games randomly chosen.

if you click on their logo on any of the sites which display it. they give a percentage payout report for the casino and 3 certificates of randomness but for only Blackjack, roulette and video poker. they don't appear to issue one for slots !!

The games/slots per se aren't tested, but the RNG that controls the outcomes. Independently.

 

[dunover]

The only statements I've seen from Microgaming on the issues of how their slots run relate to the RNG, pointing out that it is a tried and tested clean RNG.

That doesn't address any of the real issues though. The RNG can be clean but how that reflects in the player's experience is another matter.
It seems so hard to have any kind of discussion about this without people swooping down and assuming

a- Randomness is being questioned (I never have disputed that MGS use a clean RNG)
b- Anyone discussing the issue is on a losing streak (I'm not! I'm down net at 32Red but up at the other Microgaming casinos I play at)

Microgaming could make things much clearer by being transparent about how their slots work.
I don't know why they don't, beyond the fact that nobody in positions of relative power ever seems to ask them.

The fact that results are tested by ECogra doesn't address the issues either. ECogra engage in outcome based testing rather than examining source code which to my mind is a bit like trying to work out what someone had to eat by examining their burps.

It's the source code which creates the outcomes indirectly via the RNG and the reels maps in the source code. If the outcomes are kosher, it follows the source code is too. I don't see the need to differentiate.

 

[243 lines=daft]

If the outcomes are kosher, it follows the source code is too.

The outcomes can demonstrate that the RNG is producing random results and that the RTP is as it should be.

There are two concerns that they don't necessarily address.

1 - Juicing. i.e. Is a slot mapping the results of the RNG to a set of outcomes that increase the 'excitement' of the experience for the player?
Here's a simplified example of what I mean

Let's say you have an RNG that cleanly produces a number between one and nine inclusive.
You could map that to the following set of outcomes

9 pays 9 pounds
8 pays 8 pounds
7 pays 7 pounds
6 pays 6 pounds
5 pays 5 pounds
4 pays 4 pounds
3 pays 3 pounds
2 pays 2 pounds
1 pays 1 pound

This pays an average of 5 pounds across the nine results and is what one might expect.
But what if that number from 1-9 was mapped to this

9 pays 9 pounds
8 pays 9 pounds
7 pays 8 pounds
6 pays 5 pounds
5 pays 5 pounds
4 pays 5 pounds
3 pays 2 pounds
2 pays 1 pounds
1 pays 1 pound

This would give a much more exciting experience to the player by increasing the incidence of top line hitting
but would still average out at 5 pounds across all the nine results. And the RNG could still be clean as a whistle.

2 - Fixed RTP. This would be impossible for an outcome based test to spot, because it is delivering the expected results (guaranteed, not theoretical). So if eg the house was down and some support/resistance bounce point was triggered then the RNG could map to a set of player outcomes that would feature less top lines and more weak results, still with

(a)a totally clean RNG and
(b)all paylines being hittable (albeit in greater or lesser proportions) and
(c)an overall RTP matching player expectation

until the running RTP moved back to a point closer to the Fixed RTP level.

Both of these are simplified speculative examples, but in theory both juicing and RTP Fixing could exist alongside clean RNGs, reel strips and outcome based testing.

So what would be nice would be some cold hard facts to satisfy all of us naturally inquisitive paying customers.
And on that note, please Mark do post the article you mentioned.

 

[mrmark21]

Here it is...

Online Casinos Rigged?

Online slot players grow louder echoing similarity of questions, are online casinos rigged?

If you’d asked me this question pre UIGEA (Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act) you’d have received the following reply: - I’ve gambled at numerous Microgaming casino since 1997 and I’m 99.999% Microgaming online casinos are not rigged. Now in December 2010 I’m not so sure.

Yet another casino player posts their discord about lack of game fairness with online casino gambling. Eventually you have to wake up and smell the coffee. Time to Quit Online Casino Gambling. I remember in 2003 Microgaming releasing Thunderstruck, its first 5 reel 9 pay-line free spin bonus slot machine. It was the month MGS also released its casino games platform upgrade from Thumper to Viper.

Microgaming in early 2010 upgraded Viper to wide screen. However many issues followed. With numerous updates to core features, slots players are now wondering if these updates have included the alterting or weighting of slot reels & or their return to player percentages.

NB – All Microgaming casinos had their casino games audited on a monthly basis by PriceWaterhouseCoopers until eCOGRA opened up shop in 2003. From that point forward eCOGRA conducted all MGS casino game audits. It should be noted, eCOGRA was established and funded by Microgaming who even to this day has a Microgaming employee sitting on the eCOGRA Non Executive Board.

Granted I played online casinos a lot back then, maybe my average of hitting 2 complete sets of scattered Thunderstruck rams per month was not everyone’s average hit ratio. But since the UIGEA got dropped into our laps in late 2006, wins like this have been getting far less frequent as each year passes.

Albeit Microgaming has increased its release of bonus slots with free games and bonus feature games. To the point where there are over 250 of the aussie style pokies games available at casinos powered by MGS. Three new slot games per month are now being released on average. More bonus slots, with less people playing due to the UIGEA, means less money per slot machine being dropped.

In layman terms, your chances of winning are decreased. Although the overall RTP (return to player) percentages may be set to 95% for each slot, these may not have changed. However reiterating with less money going into each slot machine the chances of getting a decent win is also decreased.

Microgaming has always claimed their RTP is set in stone. That is, once the games goes live neither the casino operator nor MGS can alter or change the return to player percentage pay-out. However with more and more casino software being brought into contention about less than fair slots game play, one surely has to consider that Microgaming may possibly be tweaking their casino games.

Looking at this from a hypothetical stand point, fact is Microgaming (like most casino software providers) receive royalties or in blunt terms, kick back percentages on all money deposited through each licensees online casino. With the UIGEA profits would have taken a huge decline. It would not seem unreasonable for players to adopt the belief when their slots game play has commenced going South and correlating this back to the commencement of the UIGEA.

I can’t prove either way if Micrgaming casino software or if all online casinos are rigged. However I can say, like so many other players I too used to get a decent run of play time with a $100 deposit. However these days I can drop $1,000US in less than 3 hours and get totally sucked dry, with little or no chance of even peaking over my initial deposit balance. Add this same scenario to mimic other online slot players experiences and maybe it is time to quit online casino gambling.

NB – Unlike land based casinos, online casinos only supply the average pay-out percentage of their combined slot machines each month. In my opinion each Microgaming online casino should supply the RTP on each slot machine.

Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

 

[brianmon]

Of course, it could be all down to MG buying a secondhand RNG from NetEnt..

I did notice there was a Gymp-master-6000 for sale on eBay.

 

[KasinoKing]

I don't want to add any fuel to any fires, but I do have to point out something which I find a little annoying about these conversations;

What does a RNG do? It produces a random number. That's all it does. Just a number, nothing else.
It's what the game's software does with that number that you are talking about.
The RNG could be the most fairest in the universe, but the software of the game could (putting it very simply) be programmed in certain circumstances to ignore a number which corresponds to a winning result and replace it with a new number until it makes a losing result.

A software provider could have say 100 games all running off the same 100% true RNG, but still half of their games COULD be totally fair, while the other half COULD be totally rigged.

So when you are are talking about the fairness of a game, it should only be the game's software you are talking about, not the RNG.

KK

 

[243 lines=daft]

So in a state of slight frustration at the way these threads always seem to end with condescension/sarcasm and picking over semantics, I logged into an MGS casino to ease down the tension with a few spins.

And to be fair to Microgaming, within a couple of minutes my first five scatters of 2014 drops in.
Boom, a 500 quid boost for the holidays. Thank you mister officer

It changes nothing and imo the general play still feels manifestly different to early 2013, but I'm going to put the tin foil cap in the cupboard for a few days and wish you all a Happy Easter

 

[Slotster!]

In layman terms, your chances of winning are decreased. Although the overall RTP (return to player) percentages may be set to 95% for each slot, these may not have changed. However reiterating with less money going into each slot machine the chances of getting a decent win is also decreased.

They've had an absolute nightmare there.

Taken two different things, mixed them together and come up with a donkey. On a unicycle.

So MG software monitors ALL deposits and bets across ALL it's slots at ALL times and then pays out a 95% RTP across ALL its games. In real time.

I re-iterate. You are all bonkers.

 

[Azzurri]

Nice hit! First 5 scatters for 2014? You must be doing alright then? I'm still waiting for my first 5 scatters ever! I've just convinced myself all the screenshots on here are Photoshopped, and the mythical beast never really existed.

 

[243 lines=daft]

Nice hit! First 5 scatters for 2014? You must be doing alright then? I'm still waiting for my first 5 scatters ever! I've just convinced myself all the screenshots on here are Photoshopped, and the mythical beast never really existed.

Yeah they do really happen I promise (though they needed to actually happen for me to believe in them lol).

I've had a good few (all at different groups but especially Ladbrokes) over the last few years, and have had it happen twice in free spins which is just the biggest buzz, especially as both times they came in at the tail end of an otherwise dead free spins round and suddenly boom ...beautiful chaos and a stuffed account.

 

[Azzurri]

Good on you mate.

If I can't hit them, at least it's nice to know someone is.

Cash out and enjoy.

 

[mrmark21]

So in a state of slight frustration at the way these threads always seem to end with condescension/sarcasm and picking over semantics, I logged into an MGS casino to ease down the tension with a few spins.

And to be fair to Microgaming, within a couple of minutes my first five scatters of 2014 drops in.
Boom, a 500 quid boost for the holidays. Thank you mister officer

It changes nothing and imo the general play still feels manifestly different to early 2013, but I'm going to put the tin foil cap in the cupboard for a few days and wish you all a Happy Easter

Wow! Congrats So how long did it take you to hit that?

 

[243 lines=daft]

Wow! Congrats So how long did it take you to hit that?

Two minutes max.... easy peasy (except for the fact it came off the back of a five month drought of big hits..)

But of course being a gambler I'd rather gloss over the dead patches and just enjoy the buzz and a

 

[mrmark21]

Two minutes max.... easy peasy (except for the fact it came off the back of a five month drought of big hits..)

But of course being a gambler I'd rather gloss over the dead patches and just enjoy the buzz and a

I've been playing for two years and have NEVER seen five scatters I've found it virtually impossible to hit four BUT maybe I could get it after my terrible run of luck. I'm too scared to find out

Enjoy your win

 

[Full tilt]

I was going to put the tin foil hat on and say that the slots always tighten up every 4 th Friday when my wages go in!

In my view it's just hitting the right slot at the right time, pure luck. The last two weekends I have managed to turn a £40 deposit into £400 and £900 respectively at 32 Red just playing MG slots; Isis has been very kind to me with one lot of free spins paying £600 alone at 50p a spin! My favourite for the last 6 months, TS 2 seems to have dried up on me lately so I'll give that a miss for a while.

I've had periods where I can't seem to hit a barn door then sessions where I seem to hit every slot I play so overall things seem fair to me.

 

[whodatrec]

Anyone who belive the nonsense casinos are saying about it being random are just plain stupid. Ive won mulitple times so im not saying its impossible to win. But these slots are not truly random as in; hit spin and random symbols appear. They are either compensated or "rigged" in some way or another. Because ALWAYS after cashing out, that casino goes dead.

 

[dunover]

Anyone who belive the nonsense casinos are saying about it being random are just plain stupid. Ive won mulitple times so im not saying its impossible to win. But these slots are not truly random as in; hit spin and random symbols appear. They are either compensated or "rigged" in some way or another. Because ALWAYS after cashing out, that casino goes dead.

If you truly believe that, one must wonder why you ever deposit a cent at any casino.

As for your cashing-out, this stands to reason. You cannot perpetually be on the RTP up-curve, so when you've just cashed out you must have been on it just prior to cashing out, so there is a high likelihood you'll then go on a down-curve. This is normal.

 

[jshort]

[/

If you truly believe that, one must wonder why you ever deposit a cent at any casino.

As for your cashing-out, this stands to reason. You cannot perpetually be on the RTP up-curve, so when you've just cashed out you must have been on it just prior to cashing out, so there is a high likelihood you'll then go on a down-curve. This is normal.

See Gambler's Fallacy;

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Unless its rigged, the odds of you going on the down-curve are just as likely regardless of what your previous success history has been.

 

[dunover]

[/

See Gambler's Fallacy;

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Unless its rigged, the odds of you going on the down-curve are just as likely regardless of what your previous success history has been.

I said 'high likelihood' because this is what happens usually. The only sure thing about luck is that it will change. As will your RTP as you continue playing. Nobody goes on winning and winning and winning indefinitely, the reel maps see to that. Unless these unrelated RNG picks went in your favour continuously at odds of billions to one against.

 

[chris87]

I said 'high likelihood' because this is what happens usually. The only sure thing about luck is that it will change. As will your RTP as you continue playing. Nobody goes on winning and winning and winning indefinitely, the reel maps see to that. Unless these unrelated RNG picks went in your favour continuously at odds of billions to one against.

A good point. Therefore what you're saying is that a losing streak will also end at some point too, so that overall the RTP is achieved (or near to it) The question is how long with that streak last I guess.

I don't want to reopen the debate but to try and avoid hitting the down curve I tend to switch to other casinos when I've had a decent win on MG, but then you hit the down curve on them anyway!!

 

[tinybettor]

Bloody oath these slots are tight as hell. I don't have any proof but I still have an inkling that these slots are compensated somehow. One day you can win on any slot and have dozens of screenies of nice hits like the casino had money to splurge. On the other spectrum you go months of daily deposits where you can't even get one single nice hit no matter how many deposits or slot-changing. I had a nice session last year getting the huge Playboy hits. In between those I got a nice 1000x bet on TFROL and heaps of good medium hits in between. Now I can't even get one win that comes close to the medium ones in endless deposits that eclipse those combined winnings. I still play these slots, in the hope I can be at the right time when there's money to payout.