Interesting story on MSNBC TV

[SlotsWizard]

I'm watching a story right now on MSNBC about a guy who's trying to sue an Indian casino because he won $1.6 Million from a slot machine, and the casino is claiming that it was an "error" so he was only owed $2500.

Be interesting to see how that pans out.

It seems the land-based casinos are taking a page out of the Rogue Casino Manual of Procedures.

 

[missmayda]

Saw that

Apparently the machine stated "2500" max payout, but the read out said 1million..LOL

So guess who's gonna win????

 

[cynthial]

This story is from my hometown of Albuquerque. Sandia Casino is one of our bigger, better run casinos. The building itself is acutally stunning and quite impressive if you like Southwestern Design.

The story has been dragging on for a bit. It will be interesting to see if he can indeed get to court as the sovereign status of the Tribe may keep it from being heard.

Link to the story here with a screen shot he took at the time.

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And a snap of the Casino below.

 

[lojo]

It's Hoffman he photoshopped it

 

[Mousey]

It's Hoffman he photoshopped it

 

[brianzz]

This is probably a valid jackpot, here's my reply on ABC's website..

Ok, here's the problem with this story. Firstly the media is reporting that the machine states the top payout is $2500 on that machine, this is false. A single spin of the reels can pay UP TO $2500, but that's not an absoulte top pay on the machine, therefore the statement of "maximum payout of $2,500 for that particular slot machine" is false. A jackpot of this amount is possible on this game. This game awards bonus free spins if you get certain symbols on the reels. During those free spins you can hit any winning combination including the top jackpot of 50,000 credits ($2500). These bonus spins can retrigger a number of times giving player up to 999 free spins. Although the odds are against it, a player could hit the top award of 50,000 credits ($2500) many many times during these free bonus spins for a total game pay of 49,950,000 credits ($2,497,500), which is the absoulte top pay of the bonus game, that's hitting the top jackpot of 50,000 credits 999 times, it's possible to do this anytime on any machine like this. Anytime there's millions at stake the native american owned and governed casinos will always try to weasel out of paying. You can clearly see on the mans win meter, the bottom right of the game screen, an 8 digit credit payout. Does that win meter say 31,944,882 credits ($1,597,244.10)? Honestly, I can't tell but there is 8 digits on his win paid meter, which is more than 10 million credits. Even at absolute rock bottom, 10 million credits would be $500,000. I don't blame the guy for taking pictures, I would have too, especially after they started using the old mob strong arm tactics of dragging you to a back room and threatening you.

 

[lots0]

In my opinion playing at a Native Casino on a Reservation, is tantamount to playing in some dark back alley with a bunch of guys with bent noses.

You play by their rules, which they can change at any time and you have no recourse when they do change the rules or ignore them. Just like this guy that won the 1.5 mil jackpot is finding out.

You can't sue them in US Courts, because they are not 'legally' part of the US and if you try to sue them in their own courts you will get a first hand lesson in how the Natives feel about the "Invaders" that have taken away their land and forced them to live on dirt patch Reservations in the worst kind of poverty for the last hundred years or so.

One of my close friends, that happens to be a member of the Nez Perce tribe, calls the Native Casinos "The Red Man's Revenge"... and I don't think he is kidding.

 

[lojo]

Yip... I've seen that nod from roulette wheel to cashier's booth before a teaser win. They are like playing at a rogue house in many ways... and whenever 'need not be present to win' barrels roll, the winner is never there and the contest is over... but I've played in very nice places as well as those big vinyl buildings (feedlots) with carpet. Rarely have I ever left a Tribal Casino with any money, and honestly don't mind donating that way, otherwise I wouldn't play without enforceable regulations. I've heard some stories.... I wouldn't push them if there was a dispute.

In the ABC article, John Robison (casinocitytimes) said, <sic> "If it shows you won, well I think you did..."

Theguy will not see his money, me thinks.

 

[USA2112]

The slot machine has a disclaimer that says it pays a maximum of $2,500 and warns that malfunctions void all winnings, said Paul Bardacke, Sandia's lawyer.

If this is true that $1.6 million will turn into $2,500 quick.

 

[brianzz]

Nowhere on that machine does it say maximum jackpot $2500. There's a sticker that says win up to 50,000 credits, but that's refering to the top jackpot of 5 wild symbols. If 5 wild symbols hit on any payline the game would pay more than 50,000 credits.

 

[lots0]

According to the Casino, the slot machine went haywire before it went into bonus rounds...

My question is how the casino knew the machine was "haywire" before they had a tech even look at it???

Obviously, any machine that pays out a large jackpot in that casino is "haywire".

Bottom line, don't play at a native casino, and if you do and they cheat you, don't whine about it.

I've heard some stories.... I wouldn't push them if there was a dispute.

I know what you mean, I saw guy get 'escorted' out of a Sho-Ban Casino one night a few years ago (he was claiming very loudly he was cheated). He left the reservation in an Ambulance (the closest Hospital was 50+ miles away). That was when I decided not to keep playing at native casinos.

 

[babs7262]

I may have told this story before

but Im not positive. Anyway, I went to Imokolee (sp) in Florida while babysitting my dad's house. I wanted to play 7 card stud and put my name on the list. 1/2 hour later they called my name. I sat down and 3 of the players were the casinos' dealers!!!

All three of them won, after 5 hands I left. There was no way I was gonna play with dressed casino employees. That shouldnt even be allowed. You would never see a BJ dealer at the Trop playing BJ!

 

[Westland Bowl]

According to the Casino, the slot machine went haywire before it went into bonus rounds...

My question is how the casino knew the machine was "haywire" before they had a tech even look at it???

Obviously, any machine that pays out a large jackpot in that casino is "haywire".

Bottom line, don't play at a native casino, and if you do and they cheat you, don't whine about it....

Right! If the Injun thugs took you to the back room after your million dollar win and said they ain't gonna pay you, claiming the slot machine went "haywire", even BEFORE a tech could look at the machine, you'd bet they threatened the technician too to make the "results" of the examination fit the excuse.

If the guy isn't going to get anywhere with this lawsuit, then maybe he can claim that he is an eighth of an Indian to get eighth of the jackpot. Let's see, with my various Indian blood background, I'd probably get almost half of a jackpot! I'd better get my genealogy documents straight!! :Read:

 

[lots0]

I don't think they needed to threaten the tech...

Who pays his wages, the Casino... And I'll lay odds that the tech is a member of the Tribe. The Native casinos like to hire their own Tribal members.

 

[Westland Bowl]

I don't think they needed to threaten the tech...

Who pays his wages, the Casino... And I'll lay odds that the tech is a member of the Tribe. The Native casinos like to hire their own Tribal members.

Well, yeah, that's right. The tech knows where his peyote comes from.

 

[DakWinner]

Are there tribes inTN??? In this area the native casinos pay out their million(s) progressives and other big payouts. If not, they would lose their players. Many Canadians are here to purchase and gamble. I am going to take a guess that he will get paid.

 

[DakWinner]

westland Bowl

For Westland Bowl - I don't think they have a Retard Tribe but you'd qualify!!

 

[lojo]

he might have meant that they know which side of their bread the butter is on

 

[DakWinner]

Las Vegas Casinos are required to pay out a certain percentage of play. If a gambler suspects that other casinos (native, online, etc.) are not paying out the way they would like them to; there is always the option of not playing there. If a casino is truly bad, it will definitely close up. The peyote and injun remark is a big indicator of his stupidity.

 

[Westland Bowl]

The peyote and injun remark is a big indicator of his stupidity.

I guess the stupidity comes from being kicked in the head at a young age by a water buffalo.

 

[DakWinner]

Hilarious, so witty!

 

[chuchu59]

I'm watching a story right now on MSNBC about a guy who's trying to sue an Indian casino because he won $1.6 Million from a slot machine, and the casino is claiming that it was an "error" so he was only owed $2500.

Be interesting to see how that pans out.

It seems the land-based casinos are taking a page out of the Rogue Casino Manual of Procedures.

2 similar stories from the macau casinos recently

1/ A girl was shocked when the slot machine quoted that her win was $40M (HKD) which is about $5.1M. The casino said it was an error and refused to pay. The girl complained to the authorities in vain as they agreed that it was a technical error and the max win on this slot was nowhere near to the amount It was reported that she got nothing in the end. Actually, I disagree and believe that she should get the max win according to the slot's paytable. She cannot be blamed for the technical errors.

2/ An underaged girl managed to enter a casino and won about $700K ($90KUSD) at a slot machine. When asked for identification, it was discovered that she was underage. The casino refused to pay claiming she was not entitled to the win as this was a void bet made by an underaged patron. The authorities disagreed and ordered the casino to pay the money to the girl's mother. It was stated that the casino was negligent in allowing the girl to slip thru their guards and enter the casino and once a bet has been made, they should pay for it.

Contrasting fortunes, eh?

 

[DakWinner]

As far as Native casinos go some are excellent, others are not. Because states are not regulating them they can tighten a machine and decide how they will payout a big win. My personal opinion is that all casinos tighten or loosen up their slot machines according to previous month's revenue. RTG casinos and other online casinos are no different as soon as they lost a big percentage of their American players the payouts are not so large or so often. Some lucky players who win a decent payout should be paid immediately no in installments payments. The luck is on the casinos side and always has been.

 

[lots0]

The luck is on the casinos side and always has been.

There is no "luck" involved.
The odds are always in the Houses favor.

As far as Native Casinos go there are some that look better than others and some that have good restaurants and others don't, some Native Casinos provide better service than others...

But when it comes to paying out large winnings they are all the same.

The real problem with Native Casinos is there is no regulation and no real oversight. The Native Casinos can do whatever they want, with no chance of being held accountable, it is a dream come true for any crooked casino.

 

[DakWinner]

There is a couple a few miles down the road that just won $3 million at a Indian Casino. They are not screaming about not getting paid. A Minnesota Indian Casino about an hour from here have paid out multiple millions in progressive slots, players get paid in installments but the winners do get paid. Don't lump all Indian casinos into one group. The luck I referred to has nothing to do with the casino. The casinos always have the odds in their favor. If you can't afford or handle losing the majority of the time, Don't play.

 

[lots0]

There is a couple a few miles down the road that just won $3 million at a Indian Casino.

You mean the man (his wife was playing a different machine) from North Dakota that won 2.9 million playing at the Dakota Magic Casino in Hankinson, ND and have yet to be paid or receive any money from the casino more than 13 days after the jackpot was won?

I keep a very close eye on the Native Casinos all over the country, it's part of my business to do so.

A Minnesota Indian Casino about an hour from here have paid out multiple millions in progressive slots...

What casino is that?

 

[DakWinner]

What is your job???work for the federal government????interesting! Another Indian casino not paying out! That is going to be big news here, got to find out what the situation is. I am sure the couple are just shy about making this public. Heaven forbid, no one wants to say a bad word about the Indian population here.

 

[lojo]

Ahhh, c'mon guys. Dak was rightfully offended by westland's seemingly racist comments, Lots0 keeps an eye on the gaming industry by whatever means, affiliate as one, Wes was prolly kicked in the head by a waterbuffalo - I know he's been burned more than once.

I've been to Fort Hall (assuming that is a place Lots0 was talking about) and I can tell you things can get funky there.

I play at Tribal Casinos, and indeed there are some I am very comfy with (spirit mt, chinook winds) and some I only go to because I am 'passing by' (ft hall, burns, kamiah,etc)

Constructive criticism is GOOD, broad jabs and taking it personally are not.

Tribal casinos have a lot of problems, and so do some tribes. Some of the casinos are 'run' by outright thugs and some of them are very fine places. And some 'very fine places' have their problems.. (san manuel)

It's funny that we only talk about SGB 'thugs' and never ask which corporate holding companies control the 'clean' LV and AC, but we can talk about bent nosed injuns. Where there is money involved there will be thugs, yes even in MG (whether the funds that invest or the cops who raid processors)

It's a dirty business, the losing kind.

Hoka hey!!! Circle the wagons! Let the tribes do what they will with their proceeds from the casinos (many good things come of the house edge) and if a cracker like me wants to donate to the american indian mafia (via house edge) instead of to the tribal counsel I got nothing coming if they kick me to the curb when a machine says 'pay' and the powers that be say, 'piss off'.

WestlandBowl, and Lots0; spend a little time on the rez working for eradication of methamphetamine, then come back from that war weary world and tell us about peyote and bentnosed thugs.

Dakwinner - don't take it so personally - we're talking about casinos.

 

[Westland Bowl]

Ahhh, c'mon guys. Dak was rightfully offended by westland's seemingly racist comments.....Wes was prolly kicked in the head by a waterbuffalo - I know he's been burned more than once....

WestlandBowl, and Lots0; spend a little time on the rez working for eradication of methamphetamine, then come back from that war weary world and tell us about peyote and bentnosed thugs.

Dakwinner - don't take it so personally - we're talking about casinos.

Hey, I am deaf and wear a hearin' aid. I said I'm deAF! DEAF!!! DEAF!! WHAT??? Hard of hearing??? NNOOOO!!! DEAF!!

Gee Louise! Can't any take a bit of political incorrectness around here?? This is a smokin'-by-your-computer online casino forum.

Now, ok, I got burned by Cipher but what are the others???? The water buffalo didn't kick THAT hard!

 

[DakWinner]

Thanks Lojo

As usual the voice of reason. Yes, we are indeed talking about gambling. Which at times can be unsavory at best. I rarely play at Native casinos because I believe the slot machines are tight. It would be nice to see a dime from a tribal casino. Some tribes use gambling money to better their situation, most of the time the only people who are lining their pockets is the tribal leaders and their families. Oh well, some things never change. This is why I do enjoy online gambling.

 

[DakWinner]

Westland - Kudos to you, at least you didn't type the N word, now that is truly politcally incorrect.

 

[lojo]

Hey, I am deaf and wear a hearin' aid. I said I'm deAF! DEAF!!! DEAF!! WHAT??? Hard of hearing??? NNOOOO!!! DEAF!!

Gee Louise! Can't any take a bit of political incorrectness around here?? This is a smokin'-by-your-computer online casino forum.

Now, ok, I got burned by Cipher but what are the others???? The water buffalo didn't kick THAT hard!

Well I knew ya got fucked over. Did you fex others?

None of my business. Back to topic.

 

[Westland Bowl]

Well I knew ya got fucked over. Did you fex others?

None of my business. Back to topic.

FYI, no others.....unless you count online casinos.

 

[lojo]

Westland - Kudos to you, at least you didn't type the N word, now that is truly politcally incorrect.

You are going to lose my respect if you keep playing with naturally occuring questions if you were being silly

 

[SlotsWizard]

Oh boy, what did I start with this thread? I guess I got the ball rolling by calling it an "Indian" casino when in fact the casino has nothing to do with India ... how's that for politically incorrect...

As you were.

 

[DakWinner]

I thought I read a joke in the Forum that had the N word. I couldn't find it just now. It was from a member from New York. Although, in some area the word is just everyday slang. Nevermind, all is well.

 

[lojo]

Abo Casinos

What's up in the euro or other factor/ theatre?

 

[recruit]

Indian casinos...

Nowhere on that machine does it say maximum jackpot $2500. There's a sticker that says win up to 50,000 credits, but that's refering to the top jackpot of 5 wild symbols. If 5 wild symbols hit on any payline the game would pay more than 50,000 credits.

I live in the Dallas, TX area and we had a very similar thing happen with one of the Indian casinos across the state line in Oklahoma. the guy hit the top jackpot and the casino wouldn't pay....again, claiming "Machine malfunction". 60 Minutes did a follow up story on it, and it seems former employees had all sorts of interesting stories to tell about the power going out mysteriously when the payout potential started climbing. Power outages apparently wipe out the credits showing on game machines. They interviewed NUMEROUS people that reported this type of activity.

The winner is STILL haggling over it. Last I heard the casino had offered him $50,000 out of a $1mil jackpot. On the other hand, we go to a few other indian casinos (not this particular one) in Oklahoma and have never had an issue. Course I've never hit a million dollar jackpot, but I've won $5000 once and several times in the $3-5K range. Saw others hit big and seemingly were paid. Guess it depends on where you go.

 

[lojo]

With all due respect, I'l read that later

 

[SlotsWizard]

the guy hit the top jackpot and the casino wouldn't pay....again, claiming "Machine malfunction"

I must say I really didn't think this kind of thing happened as often as it now appears to.

It's nice to know what kinds of things the ****faces in WDC are trying to protect.

 

[lots0]

Sorry folks didn't mean to offend anyone (this time), I don't have a raciest bone in my body... I despise everyone, all cultures, all races, all religions equally.

A lot of people think playing at the native casinos is just like playing in Vegas or Atlantic City, it is most definitely NOT the same.

It would be great if the Native Casinos were regulated like Nevada or New Jersey Casinos are, but they are not and people that play in Native Casinos should be aware that they are not.

The fact is; If you hit a large jackpot in a Native Casino anywhere in America or Canada you have very high odds of not being paid.

@lojo
Fort Hall is a very...very funky place to say the least... I been there a bunch of times.
I had an aunt and uncle that used to live on the Res there, only about a mile or so from the Casino. But the incident I posted about happened at a Casino a little farther northwest.

 

[SlotsWizard]

Sorry folks didn't mean to offend anyone (this time), I don't have a raciest bone in my body... I despise everyone, all cultures, all races, all religions equally.

I love it.

If you hit a large jackpot in a Native Casino you have very high odds of not being paid.

I really would like to think that this kind of thing wouldn't happen at my particular local Native casino (Foxwoods) but in fact I think things like that happen there as well...

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:

Foxwoods casino had progressive slots that I played. The Jackpot was well over $225,000 and when I went back to play 2 days later, all of the Progressive Slots were removed and replaced with Video Slots. When I went to the casino's web site, I did not see anyone listed as winning this Jackpot. I wrote to the Casino and never got a satisfactory response - very evasive to my questions. I therefore wrote to the DA's office and a State Senator as to my concerns. Basically, I was told that they had no control and that it was up to the Tribunal Commission -- they could do what they want. I'm sure this is not fair to all those who played these slot machines. Are there any Industry rules on this? Thanks - Norman Cote, Nashua NH

Here in Nevada the casino would have to roll the progressive jackpot into another game, per Nevada Gaming Control Board regulation 5.110.5(c). If there is any such policy at Foxwoods I am unaware of it. If Foxwoods would like to express their version in this forum I would be happy to accept their statement.

 

[DakWinner]

Dear Lots0

Since I run in different circles I wasn't aware of Native Casinos not paying their customers. On that note, it would indeed be big news if locals weren't paid their money. I would be screaming to every news outlet, Ed Schultz local program, US senators, etc. if I didn't get my money. Bad press does not make good business. We all have some prejudices in some way or another. Did you know the United States sent Native American trackers into Afganistan (Spellchek) to hunt down Bin Ladin? Just my two cents, I believe Bush already knows where he is....he has to stop adding to the circus.

 

[lots0]

Most of the stories of Native Casino Winners not getting paid go under reported or unreported by the local news medias.

If this guy that won the 1.5 mil had not taken a picture of the winning screen with his camera phone you never would have heard of this case either. How many people did not have a camera phone handy to prove they won? Most I would think.

Over a year ago (pre UIGEA) I spoke to a reporter for the Seattle Times Newspaper about Native Casinos, he told me that his news paper receives on average one complaint a week about the local Native Casinos. But a Native Casino not paying winners, is not news, he told me. Ya I guess he was right, it is not 'news' when it happens all the time...

I also noticed, on my own, that the Seattle Times was running ads for the local Native Casinos at the time. I do believe that most of the local news media outlets across the USA know what side of the bread their butter is on.

What is a US Senator going to do, go to war with the Natives... again? The US Senator has no more power over the Native Tribes than you or I do. The Native Reservations are countries unto themselves.

I was thinking, you know in the glory days of Vegas (1960's) when the Mafia ran Vegas, you NEVER read in the local papers or saw on local TV about Casino Customers not being paid then being beaten and left for dead in the desert... Yet it happened all the time.

 

[lots0]

Sorry duplicate post.

 

[DakWinner]

The US government and Native American Tribes have a unique relationship. During the seventies when AIM militants took over Wounded Knee, SD on the reservation no less, the US Army was sent in with tanks. I just can't imagine what would happened if the US Army and the FBI had rolled in to take out the black protestors when they had their protests. The damage to cities were so much more. Puts it in perspective.

 

[lots0]

I remember the Philadelphia Police in 1985 dropped a bomb on a row house building from a helicopter, the building was full of Black Separatists. Link Removed ( Old/Invalid) .
They also brought in Tanks and Armored Cars and burned several blocks of buildings.

Steve Harmon. a resident of the area, said: "Drop n bomb on it residential area? I never in my life heard of that. It's like Vietnam."

Sorry for going off topic.

 

[lojo]

I remember the Philadelphia Police in 1985 dropped a bomb on a row house building from a helicopter, the building was full of Black Separatists. Link Removed ( Old/Invalid) .
They also brought in Tanks and Armored Cars and burned several blocks of buildings.



Sorry for going off topic.

That was the MOVE house, and the Africa family. I know the history (og did I just say that?) Yip. They were mostly white women and children who died in the fire, if that matters, it doesn't, they ALL used the surname 'Africa' after John, the patriarch who was a'black seperatist'

 

[DakWinner]

Lots0 - I don't know your history but looks like you had problems with Natives before losing some money at an Indian Casino. I was talking about the US Army. From an earlier post somewhere on the forum, I did state that the government should not have allowed small groups of people to claim Indian descendency; the US government then approves them as a federal tribe, and voila a casino is built (not the exact words). This seems to have happened on both coasts.

 

[brianzz]

To answer the question sorta quickly about the WOF machines being replaced at XXX casino. Wide area progressives (WAP) are owned and paid by IGT, incidentally this explains most of the "millions jackpots" paid by the native american casinos, the machines at Foxwoods were on the native american progressive link, which links all the native american casinos nationwide. The casino can decide on a whim to have the machines taken out and if they have a floor lease agreement with IGT they can tell them what to replace them with and they don't have to take that progressive "money" and put it elsewhere, that would be cheating others on the native links. But if they had an in house progressive that they killed, in most areas, they would have to subtract the reset amount from the current progressive amount and put that in another in-house progressive in the casino somewhere.

A good recent example of this was IGT killed the Mississippi Megabucks link, since it only hits about every 10 years I don't blame them. They subtracted the reset value of 1 million from the current jackpot which was a hair over 6 million at the time and added 5 million and change excess to the $1 WOF WAP which boosted it to over 11 million dollars, pretty good hit for a $3 bet.

I don't want to get into indian name calling, but it's funny to read, I do it enough in person when I get scalped at the semi-local indian casino in NC.

Speaking of the NC casino, they used to have these 2 spin lock and roll machines, which I had the PAR sheets for and went up and checked the odds and I can honestly say they have the worst payouts nationwide of any casino. The highest paying machines in the casino were 95% which were $1 sizzlin 7's and $5 to $100 machines. Nickels were all set to 90% and quarter were 91% and 50 cent were 93%. I'm pretty sure this is about in line with native casinos nation-wide.